Why do we make bad decisions?

[Sir Darius the Clairvoyent]

We all know that a chicken salad is better for you than a Big Mac. Yet many eat way more Big Mac than salad. Even if this is not a problem for you, I think it is safe to say that we humans often do things we know are bad for us, while avoiding actions that would lead to growth, to a greater or lesser degree.

 

I find this perplexing. It is almost like you are not one entity, but a series of competing ones, some acting against your (you as in the sense it is useally used) best interrest. 
 

I guess much of it might be down to the discrepancy between the our biological nature, the environment it is adapted to and a failure to readjust to modernity.

 

What do you think?

[Jenn]

At the very least we are our contrived mind, all our identities, and presumably somewhere in there, ourselves. 

 

This is an interesting question I've been thinking a lot about lately for a few reasons. One, my family are all narcissists (one clinically diagnosed) - I find it fascinating to experience them now that I am no longer emotionally tangled up in the drama, their behavior is like they are three different people. I think of them as Jekyll, Hyde, and Billy. Glimpses of who they likely truly are shine through sometimes, then out comes the nasty, lying, base instinct, gets-mine-at-all-costs Hyde, but interestingly there is a third, helpless persona / identity that reminds me of helpless children. I can see now why that is such a difficult personality to come to terms with for those who have a narc in their life. Billy brings out your protective / parental instincts and you feel compelled to help them, Jekyll makes them seem kind and human, but then Hyde makes them seem like monsters - yet they are all in one "person" and you end up wrestling with wanting to hate a monster, comfort a child, and care for kindness all in one blurred together go. 

 

I think something less extreme happens in all of us, our nature, our contrived mind, our inner child, I don't know, all these identities popping in and out depending on how in control we are in the moment. Like we all have a multiple personality disorder but usually it's not extreme enough to notice since everyone else does the same thing. 

 

I also think stress and uncertain times causes people to be less able to maintain their external persona, so we are starting to see more and more of what is going on under the hood. I've certainly noticed a lot more people with unpredictable moods/personalities lately especially in places like work where a certain level of persona is expected.

 

Edited November 28 by Jenn

[Nungali]

5 hours ago, Sir Darius the Clairvoyent said:

We all know that a chicken salad is better for you than a Big Mac. Yet many eat way more Big Mac than salad. Even if this is not a problem for you, I think it is safe to say that we humans often do things we know are bad for us, while avoiding actions that would lead to growth, to a greater or lesser degree.

 

I find this perplexing. It is almost like you are not one entity, but a series of competing ones, some acting against your (you as in the sense it is useally used) best interrest. 
 

I guess much of it might be down to the discrepancy between the our biological nature, the environment it is adapted to and a failure to readjust to modernity.

 

What do you think?

 

 

There you have it ! 

 

"almost like '     

 

Thats why in magick we have an internal hierarchy ;  some 'entities' have simple jobs , like those of the autonomous nervous system  ( eg. we dont have to consciously force our breath in and out to stay alive or consciously regulate digestion etc .  These forces  should have no say in directing and controlling the 'organisms ' that we are . In between these extremities are all sorts of forces with various degrees of independence .  At the top is the 'King' . Thats why magicians are often shown wearing a crown .

 

Imagine the 'happy farm' it has a good farmer ( the 'King' ) knowing what he is doing , treating all the animals in the right way , specific to themselves ; showing a balance of kindness and discipline , regulating and keeping the environment healthy , everything , when in harmony, can nearly run itself, and that allows Framer to get on with other more important projects .

 

Then consider a farm in chaos with no fencing , all the animals running amok, doing what they want here and there  and the farmer in the midst ... nit even knowing he is supposed to be a farmer .

 

Sorting all this out is and essential part of life (for the magician )  and  'life' (especially this lesson ) and the skill of the Master Magician , is becoming 'master' of this realm  within yourself ... its  a core and central part of second degree initiation .

[Cobie]

6 hours ago, Sir Darius the Clairvoyent said:

We all know that a chicken salad is better for you than a Big Mac. Yet many eat way more Big Mac than salad.  … I find this perplexing. … What do you think?

When making a resolution with the conscious part of the brain only, often the unconscious part overrides it.

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

6 hours ago, Sir Darius the Clairvoyent said:

What do you think?

Have you ever tried a McSpicy?

[old3bob]

22 minutes ago, Cobie said:

When making a resolution with the conscious part of the brain only, often the unconscious part overrides it.

 

besides we are immortal and can get away with it....(not)

[Sanity Check]

In terms of thermodynamics, good decisions require more energy than bad ones.

 

 

[Daniel]

19 hours ago, Sir Darius the Clairvoyent said:

 

20 hours ago, Sir Darius the Clairvoyent said:

Why do we make bad decision?

 

"Haste" or not being hasty when it's necessary.

 

More broadly:  it's choosing "or" when "and" would have produced a better outcome, and vice versa.

 

19 hours ago, Sir Darius the Clairvoyent said:

I find this perplexing. It is almost like you are not one entity, but a series of competing ones, some acting against your (you as in the sense it is useally used) best interrest. 

 

The entities are "motives"; influencing forces.

 

During normal, healthy cognition, each of these motives are given equal opportunity to influence executive function.

 

In general, bad decisions are the result of one or two very strong motives over-powering, dominating, the psyche such that none of the other motives are able to express themselves.  Among magicians, if that is your interest, this is a transgression of "True Will", the only law, assuming law exists.  

 

in particular, the analogy I like to use is an executive board meeting.  You are the executive, the decision-maker.  When there is a choice to make, an executive board meeting is called to order, in your psyche.  Each of the stake-holders ( motives ) are invited to speak on behalf of their interests.  As the executive, you have some authority over these motives, but, silencing them if they are out of order takes practice.  Encouraging those which rarely speak up to state their case, can also be challenging.   Some motives are clever, hiding behind other motives, influencing them.  Some motives will scream like a baby having a tantrum, dominating the board meeting so that no other motive can be heard.  If that occurs for an extended period of time, the individual begins to act like a fanatic.  They are only making choices based on one pure, very noisy, dominant motivating influence for help or for harm, for themself, or for others, whether or not it's rational.  The motive is "filibustering" the executive.  But, it's also unhealthy and cruel to ignore the crying baby.  It's in pain, something's wrong, it's noticed something that's being neglected.

 

What I described above are the two extreme examples:  on one end of the spectrum, all the motives are given "air-time" to state their case.  The executive prioritizes and includes all the various motives in their actions through the prism of their, the executive's, true-will.  At the other end of the spectrum, in haste, only one pure motive is being heard.  Healthy cognition is a blend of these, while not excluding the extremes.  High-functioning individuals make choices this way extremely rapidly for simple matters, take their time to contemplate when it's warranted, and do not hesitate to act in an emergency.  Not properly distinguishing between these three, is another possible fault condition.

 

that's half of it.  that's the intellect.

 

The psyche is both mind-and-heart, intellect-and-emotion.  The executive board meeting is happening intellectually, most often sub-consciously.  That is where concepts are put in their place, prioritized, and shaped.  In the heart, it is very very different.  if the intellect is like an executive board meeting ( or a court-room ), where motives state their case, in theory, in an orderly manner; the heart is like a garden.  In a garden, all plants are expressing themselves simultaneously, not one at a time like in a court-room.  The intellect, naturally bows to them, to their unique expression, which is amorphous, like a cloud, a "scent".  Archetypically, this bowing of mind to heart, of intellect to emotion,  is described as a father who is bowing to the sound of his wife, or his daughter, calling to him while he is reclining in his garden..  He simply must listen to them.  He is surrounded by the tender work of his hands, his "precious", all of his blossoming delicacies, their aroma is everywhere.  His mind is in a state where he autonomously, automatically answers their calling.  And so, he is always bowing towards them.  He cannot resist their "scent".

 

That's the other half of it.  That's emotion.

 

Mind-and-heart, both are happening simultaneously, but many are only consciously aware of one or the other at one time.  They do not consider both simultaneously.  It's the same cognitive fault that is happening when one intellectual motive dominates the executive.  The individual is in an "either/or" state-of-mind, when they would better served with a "this-and-that".  It's the difference between open-minded and closed-minded, narrow contrasted with broad.  But.  Sometimes it's very important to listen to one and only one motive.  If the house is burning down, for example.  All other motives are silenced, naturally, and for good reason, behind the over-whelming pursuit to protect life and property. 

 

Why do we make bad decisions?  There's several large categories of fault conditions which can occur at various layers of cognition.  Almost all the fault conditions are a consequence of a misappropriation of attention, fixation or negligence, on the motivational influences which exist in the psyche.  The outliers are habitual behaviors which were rewarded excessively in the past.

 

[Sir Darius the Clairvoyent]

Beautiful words, all of you. It resonates.

[Sir Darius the Clairvoyent]

“Let us compare the soul to a charioteer driving a chariot pulled by two horses. One of them is noble and good, while the other is of the opposite nature. The white horse is beautiful, well-proportioned, with a gentle temperament, guided by honor and virtue. The black horse, on the other hand, is unruly, dark, and driven by desire and untamed passions. For the charioteer, it is a constant struggle to keep them in balance and steer the chariot in the right direction.”

(Phaedrus, 246a–254e, Plato).

 

[stirling]

On 11/27/2024 at 7:17 AM, Sir Darius the Clairvoyent said:

What do you think?

 

The primary problem is in thinking that "we" are in charge at all. In a universe of causes and conditions that theoretically began with the famous "big bang" the input of a very small "self" that has existed for less than a blink of the eye isn't even going to push the needle. We aren't in charge of the universe, or even our own lives really. What we ARE in charge of is the quality of our response to the world.

 

Responses that recognize that even the most horrific conditions in the world come from actions based on fear eventually create compassion for that suffering. Actions from real compassion change the world. When you feel like you don't understand what is happening in the world ask yourself, "Who owns the fear in this equation?".  

 

The reason we make "bad" decisions is because what we want doesn't benefit anyone but our illusory "self", and the illusory "self" we think we are making decisions from doesn't really exist as a separate thing. This mistake in understanding the nature of things leads us to having a perspective limited by this view. Protecting the illusory "self" above everything else becomes paramount. Our choices are made accordingly, reinforce this view, and often cause suffering because of it. 

 

The world is a mirror of your delusions. What hurts or feels like a "bad decision" in your life experience happens because of your attachment or aversion to a specific outcome. If you realize what that attachment or aversion IS and drop that pattern, you change the world. If you want to live in a world where people are kinder, be kind to other people. If you want to live in world without hate or violence, stop hating and being violent in your thoughts and actions. Stop responding with "bad decisions" and change the world. 

 

Quote

If you want to know what will happen to you in the future, look at what you are doing now. - Dalai Lama

 

[Sherman Krebbs]

Maybe the real question is why we feel regret.  Oh dear, why did I take that third helping.  If indigestion is karma, maybe it was worth it. 

 

 

[Sanity Check]

[Thrice Daily]

reminds me of a book that spoke about Sankaras, habits being like football players on a pitch, some good, some bad... It went something like this;

 

The mind can be likened to a football pitch, and sankaras (mental formations) are the players. Each player represents a habit, emotion, or thought. They arise, interact, and "play" within the field of our consciousness. Some dominate the game, pushing others aside, while others fade to the sidelines. The match reflects our inner mental activity—chaotic, dynamic, yet impermanent. Through mindfulness, we can step back as observers, realizing we are the pitch itself, not the players. Over time, the game calms as we release attachment to the players.

[forestofclarity]

Mod Note: Threads merged