Ajay0 Posted November 30 (edited) India is considered to be the only country on earth which has never persecuted its Jewish population. Indian Jewish poet Zika Joseph’s new of book of poetry, ‘Sweet Malida: Memories of a Bene Israel Woman,’ dips into the culture and mythology around the subcontinent’s largest Jewish community. https://forward.com/culture/617986/indian-jewish-food-poetry-bene-israel/ Quote In Joseph’s new book of poetry, Sweet Malida: Memories of a Bene Israel Woman, she plucks vivid moments out of her people’s mysterious history, as well as her own experiences in a community that has shrunk to just 5,000 in India today (most have emigrated, with the vast majority — around 80,000 — living in Israel). The book’s title refers to the “Malida,” an offering of rice flakes, nuts, coconut, fruits, and flowers to the prophet Elijah, a central figure in Bene Israel tradition. As Joseph celebrates — and interrogates — her community’s memories, food is central, a medium for welcoming newcomers, remembering her family’s matriarchs, and launching questions into historical gaps. In “Pantoum for Chik-cha Halwa,” a coconut-and-wheat-based dessert helps her plumb historical gaps as she writes, “so very different from sweets of home/ sugar coconut milk colored pink thickening/ those lost in the deluge shipwrecked/ would their spirits whisper old recipes?” Edited November 30 by Ajay0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted November 30 14 hours ago, Ajay0 said: India is considered to be the only country on earth which has never persecuted its Jewish population. I think you will find evidence of historical Jewish persecution rather hard to find in Australia . Sure there have been incidents of 'antisemitism' and times migration was discouraged ( and then accepted ) , but 'persecution ' ... ? ( I realize 'we' often dont count in such considerations but ' the only country on earth ' is a bit of a stretch . .... Ecuador , New Zealand , Papua , New Guinea .... ? ) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ajay0 Posted December 2 On 12/1/2024 at 2:56 AM, Nungali said: I think you will find evidence of historical Jewish persecution rather hard to find in Australia . I am not aware of contact between Jewish merchants and the indigenous native Australians in Australian history. With respect to the state of Australia in modern times after european colonialism, I am aware of Neo-nazi movements in both Australia and New Zealand which obviously have anti-semitic tropes in their ideology. In Spanish south america, the jews were labeled as heretics , avoided major urban centers and survived by camouflaging their personal and group identity. Indian jews never faced such issues. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted December 2 15 hours ago, Ajay0 said: I am not aware of contact between Jewish merchants and the indigenous native Australians in Australian history. Of course I was not referring to that ... thats ^ just being silly . With respect to the state of Australia in modern times after european colonialism, I am aware of Neo-nazi movements in both Australia and New Zealand which obviously have anti-semitic tropes in their ideology. I dont think you need to prefix that observation with 'respect' , its shameful , but still , does that constitute persecution of Jews .. are they going out and persecuting Jews ? No doubt there are incidents where some do feel persecuted , but so do just about all ethnic or cultural groups . I think we both know what 'persecuting the Jews ' means . And if you going to count that as persecuting the Jews , fair enough ... but then you have to include that in India too and say Indoia DID persecute the Jews . In Spanish south america, the jews were labeled as heretics , avoided major urban centers and survived by camouflaging their personal and group identity. And .... did that ever happen in the countries I mentioned ? Why switch over to Spanish South America as some way to show that Jews got persecuted in Australia , New Zealand , PNG , etc . That made no sense ... nonsense . Indian jews never faced such issues. Oh really now ? https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2017-12-14/ty-article/hitlers-hindus-indias-nazi-loving-nationalists-on-the-rise/0000017f-f880-d460-afff-fbe61fe20000 Opinion | Hitler’s Hindus: The Rise and Rise of India’s Nazi-loving Nationalists " The ‘Hitler’s Den’ pool parlor that shocked me on a round-India trip 10 years ago was no outlier. Admiration for Nazism – often reframed with a genocidal hatred for Muslims – is rampant in the Hindu nationalist camp, which has never been as mainstream as it is now July 2008. I was on a cycling expedition, from the southernmost tip of India to its most northern state. Along the way, I took a pit stop at Nagpur, the geographic center of India and the epicenter of Hindu nationalism. There, I saw a building with a bizarre name: "Hitlers Den." A pool parlor, its walls were emblazoned with tacky Nazi insignia, and on its shopfront – a swastika on full public view " " Many members of the so-called “alt-right” – a loosely knit coalition of populists, white supremacists, white nationalists and neo-Nazis – turned to India to find historic and current justifications for their racist, xenophobic and divisive views. Using a specific, “white nationalist” brand of Orientalism, they projected their fantasies about a racially pure society onto the Indian culture and in response received a warm welcome from Hindu fundamentalists in India." https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2018/12/13/why-white-supremacists-and-hindu-nationalists-are-so-alike/ "Savitri was a proponent of a synthesis of Hinduism and Nazism, proclaiming Adolf Hitler to have been an avatar of the Hindu god Vishnu.[5] She depicted Hitler as a sacrifice for humanity that would lead to the end of the worst World Age, the Kali Yuga, which she believed was induced by the Jews, whom she saw as the powers of evil.[3]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savitri_Devi " the origins of Hindutva in colonial India where it emerged through sustained interaction with ideologues in Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany who, in turn, engaged with Hindutva to further their own ideological developments. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/0031322X.2020.1759861#d1e144 "Why Is India’s Government Celebrating an Antisemitic, Pro-genocide Hitler Devotee? When the Culture Ministry honored a Nazi sympathizer who mocked democracy and called for the forced subjugation of the Muslim minority, it was a chilling indication of where Narendra Modi is leading Hindu nationalism – and India " https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/2021-03-01/ty-article-opinion/.premium/why-is-indias-government-celebrating-an-antisemitic-pro-genocide-hitler-devotee/0000017f-e108-d804-ad7f-f1fa46980000 Hindutva and Nazism: How Europe’s Far-Right Influence Extends Overseas https://reclamationmagazine.com/2020/09/20/hindutva-and-nazism-how-europes-far-right-influence-extends-overseas/comment-page-1/ I suggest Ayja0 ... that you are a very black pot calling some tarnished kettles black . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ajay0 Posted December 3 (edited) There are no nazi or neo-nazi movements in India. Many dark-skinned Indians have also been victims of racism in europe and the west, and it s their increasing wealth and influence that has made immune to such discrimination later on. The Jews, I repeat have never faced such discrimination in India as there are no nazi or neo-nazi movements in India unlike those in the west and Australia and New Zealand. Hate speech indulging in anti-semitism has been a regular feature of these neo-nazi movements in these countries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_Australia#:~:text=Antisemitism in Australia is the,established in the 18th century. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_New_Zealand Quote And .... did that ever happen in the countries I mentioned ? Why switch over to Spanish South America as some way to show that Jews got persecuted in Australia , New Zealand , PNG , etc . That made no sense ... nonsense . Since you mentioned Ecuador, I had to mention Spanish south america, as Ecuador is a part of it. Hope you got it ! Quote July 2008. I was on a cycling expedition, from the southernmost tip of India to its most northern state. Along the way, I took a pit stop at Nagpur, the geographic center of India and the epicenter of Hindu nationalism. There, I saw a building with a bizarre name: "Hitlers Den." A pool parlor, its walls were emblazoned with tacky Nazi insignia, and on its shopfront – a swastika on full public view " Quote " Many members of the so-called “alt-right” – a loosely knit coalition of populists, white supremacists, white nationalists and neo-Nazis – turned to India to find historic and current justifications for their racist, xenophobic and divisive views. Using a specific, “white nationalist” brand of Orientalism, they projected their fantasies about a racially pure society onto the Indian culture and in response received a warm welcome from Hindu fundamentalists in India." https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2018/12/13/why-white-supremacists-and-hindu-nationalists-are-so-alike/ Many westerners with anti-semitic views have come to India as tourists and may have disseminated some of their propaganda here and leave after their visas expire. Hindus and Indians welcome them as they do for all tourists with an eye on the money and investments they bring to the region.This is all there is to it. There are relatively much more Jewish buildings and architecture in India , and Zionism was also considered as a model by Hindu nationalists which would explain the warm relationship between India and Israel in present times. Quote "Savitri was a proponent of a synthesis of Hinduism and Nazism, proclaiming Adolf Hitler to have been an avatar of the Hindu god Vishnu.[5] She depicted Hitler as a sacrifice for humanity that would lead to the end of the worst World Age, the Kali Yuga, which she believed was induced by the Jews, whom she saw as the powers of evil.[3]" Savitri was a French European woman who tried to blend some elements of Hinduism with nazism . Her views are laughable and comical as far as I am concerned, and it shows how human beings can be deluded by their imagination to hold absurd notions. The Gita teaches reincarnation , and the concept of reincarnation means that she herself can be born as a Jew in her next life. So hatred and prejudice becomes illogical in the light of reincarnation. A hindu can be reborn as a muslim or Christian in his next life so hatred becomes superficial and irrational in the long run. Quote " the origins of Hindutva in colonial India where it emerged through sustained interaction with ideologues in Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany who, in turn, engaged with Hindutva to further their own ideological developments. Indians in the nineteenth and early twentieth century was fighting against British and western colonialism (French,Portuguese) and so adopted nationalistic movements modelled upon that in Ireland, the US, Japan and also Germany and Italy. Communism had also influenced many Indians at that point of time due to influence of neighboring China and Russia. They used whatever models of nationalism available in other countries to fight and triumph over western colonialism. Even Islamic and Zionist models as well were also adopted as models for Hindu nationalism or Hindutva. Hindutva or Hindu nationalism was also mainly a reaction to prosleytising efforts and persecution by Islamic and Christian invaders which had projected the Hindus as heathens due to religious conditioning, and wrecked their temples and religions institutions using violence and brutality. Inquisitions and jihads, jizya taxes were common in regions where they had attained control and so there was a lot of wars and battles by the Hindus to gain control of their land and prevent the persecution. You can see that the Jews, Zoroastrians, Tibetan Buddhists, Bahais who arrived in large numbers to India as refugees were treated well by the same Hindus and not shunned or discriminated upon. They were non-violent and peaceful and consequently never encountered problems of any sort in India. Edited December 3 by Ajay0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted December 3 Some of the articles I cited where from Jewish media . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ajay0 Posted December 3 29 minutes ago, Nungali said: Some of the articles I cited where from Jewish media . You can consider these articles and statements made by Jews themselves... https://www.business-standard.com/world-news/india-only-nation-with-no-history-of-antisemitism-diaspora-supports-israel-123102400069_1.html Quote Nissim Reuben, Program Director of Indian-Jewish Relations at the American Jewish Committee (AJC), said at a Congressional briefing in support of Israel that India is the only country with no history of antisemitism. https://www.business-standard.com/world-news/india-only-nation-with-no-history-of-antisemitism-diaspora-supports-israel-123102400069_1.html Quote Israeli ambassador to India, Reuven Azar, who was a guest at the event at the Austrian Ambassador to India, Katharina Wieser's house, who hosted Vinay Gupta, the author of the book, 'A Rescue in Vienna' at her residence, said that he admired the effort by Gupta's family in rescuing the Jews. Mr Azar said that India never harboured a sense of anti-semitism, which encouraged Jews to come here for refuge. The article in the OP is also from Jewish media where the Jewish author states thus to a question... https://forward.com/culture/617986/indian-jewish-food-poetry-bene-israel/ Quote At the same time, in some poems you express gratitude for the villagers who welcomed your ancestors. You’re absolutely right, because in ancient India, there was little religious persecution. So even though these strangers were shipwrecked on the shore, they were allowed to live among the villagers and follow their beliefs. They took on all these various occupations: oil pressing, farming. There were no questions asked: “You live here now, you can live in our villages, work among us.” If one of them had been hostile, they could have just killed that whole community. But instead, they were just good human beings that saw these people half-drowned on the shore — as I imagined them to be — in a shipwreck after a storm. And they embraced them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Daniel Posted December 4 @Ajay0, Perhaps a way to evaluate, in general, the point of view of Australian individuals in regard to "Kosher" is to look at their opinion of ritual Kosher slaughter. When I did this, about a year ago, I found that Australians are fair-minded in regard to this particular religious practice in spite of how it sounds, and the rumors, which are spread. If there is a negative bias, this particular topic, ritual slaughter, exposes it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted December 4 (edited) 4 hours ago, Daniel said: @Ajay0, Perhaps a way to evaluate, in general, the point of view of Australian individuals in regard to "Kosher" is to look at their opinion of ritual Kosher slaughter. When I did this, about a year ago, I found that Australians are fair-minded in regard to this particular religious practice in spite of how it sounds, and the rumors, which are spread. If there is a negative bias, this particular topic, ritual slaughter, exposes it. Well, we do have a joke going around about a special kosher cheese sandwich We hope to be a fair multi-cultural society ... but of course we also have an opposite element present . The same with halal food . Unfortunate some rare cases of opposition have been able to get into places like members of parliament , so some type of significant vote got them there . The other issue is sending live stock OS so they can 'do it properly' but that creates very much hardship and cruelty to the animals due to the transport methods open cages out on the open sea . I think there are plans , or at least some talk going around about making appropriate slaughterhouses here . Personally , as I said before in another thread , it doesnt worry me ; I go to my friends house and if it is Sabbath , he asks me to press the button on his coffee machine .... I dont mind, even though I know he will do it himself if I am not there . But things are changing , sadly. Fascism is on the rise again . Last year I am watching TV and a current affairs program comes on featuring the head of ASIO ( sort of like our CIA ) giving out a special announcement (unheard of before , so it really got my attention ) on the rise of fascism in our youth , he even said " Parents ! Check your children's rooms . Now I know some of the teens keep their rooms locked and it is considered private , but have a look in there . Many times when we investigate such things due to other issues that have occurred we find a room full of fascist paraphernalia and Nazi flags ... that the parents did not know about . " Yikes ! That scares and disappoints me ! Although it is not 'historical Jewish persecution ' in Australia . I guess we will have to see how the current situation pans out with Australia's recent political decisions in the world forum . Edited December 4 by Nungali 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
