How to know if a practice/path is ultimately beneficial? Can a practice be healing but also harmful?

[Turnip]

I am interested in anyone’s opinions or experiences about this. I’m wondering if there are practices such as qigong, that can be very healing, physically,  emotionally, generally make one feel better and happier, maybe even bring about seemingly spiritual experiences, etc, but can have negative “side effects”. In that, they take something away from the person. They subtlety disempower the person. They are not ultimately fruitful for the growth of that person’s soul. 

 

This leads into a broader question of how do you know if something is empowering you or disempowering you? Is this practice, teacher, activity, truly helping me grow and heal and become a better person, or is it handicapping my access to my deeper self-empowering nature?

 

Tonight I asked Hua Ching Ni’s I Ching for advice about how I should find a path to heal myself. I got hexagram 48, The Well. In his commentary, Ni writes:

 

”Some people dig only three to five feet for water, and upon striking rock, dig another hole and then another. With such shallow efforts, water is never reached. An ancient proverb says that it is better to dig one well deep enough to reach water than to dig nine shallow wells which provide nothing. One must willing to work through difficulties in order to reach water.
Of course, knowing whether there is water or not is important. On another level, beyond the issues of commitment and perseverance, this hexagram deals with the spiritual achievement of an individual. Knowing where to dig requires a deeper knowledge. Those who rush about digging here and there never allow themselves enough time to "sense" where the water is. Intuition is the result of self-development. Thus, one who is developed depends upon his intuitive and spiritual achievement to lead him to "water," instead of wasting a lot energy searching in many different directions.”

 

The challenge is that if you’re not developed, how would you know where to dig? For every 10 people who say they’ve found a clean well with endless water supply, 9 of them could be drinking dirty water, or the supply could be limited without them knowing. 
 

I am in my early twenties and have not dug deep enough in any direction, partly because I don’t know where the water is. Maybe it’s part of the process.

 

Does anyone have any words of advice, or experience of their own?

 

 

 

Edited December 8 by Turnip

[idquest]

All good questions. Getting sense of the practice is similar to learning how to drive a car. Until you have driven 2000 kms, you can't say you can drive. Same with qigong and/or meditation. Ironically, I'd say one needs about 2000 hours of dedicated practice to figure out some basic things. Until then, it would make sense:

- don't get involved in any cultish groups

- don't do anything excessive

- do both body maintenance and sitting still practices

- treat everything with a pinch of irony

 

Eventually, the practice should align with your goal(s) and should not harm other people.

 

Something like this.

[Turnip]

4 hours ago, idquest said:

All good questions. Getting sense of the practice is similar to learning how to drive a car. Until you have driven 2000 kms, you can't say you can drive. Same with qigong and/or meditation. Ironically, I'd say one needs about 2000 hours of dedicated practice to figure out some basic things. Until then, it would make sense:

- don't get involved in any cultish groups

- don't do anything excessive

- do both body maintenance and sitting still practices

- treat everything with a pinch of irony

 

Eventually, the practice should align with your goal(s) and should not harm other people.

 

Something like this.

Thank you for your advice. I really appreciate it. I’ve never heard the importance of irony but that’s great, thank you. 

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

7 hours ago, Turnip said:

I am in my early twenties and have not dug deep enough in any direction, partly because I don’t know where the water is. Maybe it’s part of the process.

 

Does anyone have any words of advice, or experience of their own?

 

Its’s like that phrase “jack of all trades, master of none”. Don’t try to do everything, specialise in something. In regards to qigong and internal arts I would do no more than 3 different systems, and see them all through to the end. Some people like to mix and match different practices from multiple systems which at best leads to slow or no development, or at worst will cause harm to you energetically, physically and/or mentally.

 

You are still young, the only thing you can do is try things for yourself. Pick a system, any system. Do it for a year. If it’s good and works for you, keep doing it. If it’s not, stop doing it and find something else.

 

A good way to see if a teacher is good is not just what skills/behaviour they have, but also what skills/behaviour their students have.

[Turnip]

11 hours ago, -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- said:

Its’s like that phrase “jack of all trades, master of none”. Don’t try to do everything, specialise in something. In regards to qigong and internal arts I would do no more than 3 different systems, and see them all through to the end. Some people like to mix and match different practices from multiple systems which at best leads to slow or no development, or at worst will cause harm to you energetically, physically and/or mentally.

 

You are still young, the only thing you can do is try things for yourself. Pick a system, any system. Do it for a year. If it’s good and works for you, keep doing it. If it’s not, stop doing it and find something else.

 

A good way to see if a teacher is good is not just what skills/behaviour they have, but also what skills/behaviour their students have.

You’re right. I just gotta pick something and stick to it. Thank you for the advice. 🙏

[kakapo]

22 hours ago, Turnip said:

I am interested in anyone’s opinions or experiences about this. I’m wondering if there are practices such as qigong, that can be very healing, physically,  emotionally, generally make one feel better and happier, maybe even bring about seemingly spiritual experiences, etc, but can have negative “side effects”. In that, they take something away from the person. They subtlety disempower the person. They are not ultimately fruitful for the growth of that person’s soul. 

 

This leads into a broader question of how do you know if something is empowering you or disempowering you? Is this practice, teacher, activity, truly helping me grow and heal and become a better person, or is it handicapping my access to my deeper self-empowering nature?

 

Tonight I asked Hua Ching Ni’s I Ching for advice about how I should find a path to heal myself. I got hexagram 48, The Well. In his commentary, Ni writes:

 

”Some people dig only three to five feet for water, and upon striking rock, dig another hole and then another. With such shallow efforts, water is never reached. An ancient proverb says that it is better to dig one well deep enough to reach water than to dig nine shallow wells which provide nothing. One must willing to work through difficulties in order to reach water.
Of course, knowing whether there is water or not is important. On another level, beyond the issues of commitment and perseverance, this hexagram deals with the spiritual achievement of an individual. Knowing where to dig requires a deeper knowledge. Those who rush about digging here and there never allow themselves enough time to "sense" where the water is. Intuition is the result of self-development. Thus, one who is developed depends upon his intuitive and spiritual achievement to lead him to "water," instead of wasting a lot energy searching in many different directions.”

 

The challenge is that if you’re not developed, how would you know where to dig? For every 10 people who say they’ve found a clean well with endless water supply, 9 of them could be drinking dirty water, or the supply could be limited without them knowing. 
 

I am in my early twenties and have not dug deep enough in any direction, partly because I don’t know where the water is. Maybe it’s part of the process.

 

Does anyone have any words of advice, or experience of their own?

 

 

 

 

 

Most paths do not do anything at all, good or bad. 

 

The few paths that do anything at all, can be very very dangerous if you are not able to follow instructions to the letter.

 

To know which practices are legit, you should be demanding good hard evidence that the practice does something. 

 

If no such evidence exists you should pursue some other practice.

[ChiDragon]

1 hour ago, kakapo said:

I am interested in anyone’s opinions or experiences about this. I’m wondering if there are practices such as qigong, that can be very healing, physically,  emotionally, generally make one feel better and happier, maybe even bring about seemingly spiritual experiences, etc, but can have negative “side effects”. In that, they take something away from the person. They subtlety disempower the person. They are not ultimately fruitful for the growth of that person’s soul.

The negative side effect is the least thing you have to worry about in any Qigong. There are more good than harm if you stay away from and don't do any harmful sexual practices. 

Edited December 9 by ChiDragon

[Turnip]

2 hours ago, kakapo said:

 

 

Most paths do not do anything at all, good or bad. 

 

The few paths that do anything at all, can be very very dangerous if you are not able to follow instructions to the letter.

 

To know which practices are legit, you should be demanding good hard evidence that the practice does something. 

 

If no such evidence exists you should pursue some other practice.

Thank you. 

[Turnip]

1 hour ago, ChiDragon said:

The negative side effect is the least thing you have to worry about in any Qigong. There are more good than harm if you stay away from and don't do any harmful sexual practices. 

Thank you

[stirling]

Mr. Turnip,

 

What is it you are hoping to accomplish? This in particular will color what "benefit" means in your context. 

 

I can say definitively that Buddhism DOES something, but it requires some shifts in your daily way of being, and regular practice. You have to be willing to dig into what obscures your understanding. Some people with deep psychological trauma would be better served by dealing with that before they begin. People with that typical amount of baggage will quickly find that their way of relating to life and others shifts greatly within a few months with commitment to practice and guidance. With the right teacher, the "2nd Arrow" can be seen through quite quickly. 

 

https://tricycle.org/magazine/a-second-arrow-story/

[Lukks]

On 08/12/2024 at 6:09 AM, -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- said:

Some people like to mix and match different practices from multiple systems which at best leads to slow or no development, or at worst will cause harm to you energetically, physically and/or mentally.

 

I did this in the past and I learned it the hard way, never mixing things again hahaha

 

@Turnip you can start with Xuan Daoji's free healing meditation, it can help you heal, here's the link for the thread, if you have any more questions you can PM Xuan(effilang) and he will help you.

https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/55100-free-healing-activation-for-neidan-xiao-yao-pai/

 

Best Wishes!

[Turnip]

18 hours ago, stirling said:

Mr. Turnip,

 

What is it you are hoping to accomplish? This in particular will color what "benefit" means in your context. 

 

I can say definitively that Buddhism DOES something, but it requires some shifts in your daily way of being, and regular practice. You have to be willing to dig into what obscures your understanding. Some people with deep psychological trauma would be better served by dealing with that before they begin. People with that typical amount of baggage will quickly find that their way of relating to life and others shifts greatly within a few months with commitment to practice and guidance. With the right teacher, the "2nd Arrow" can be seen through quite quickly. 

 

https://tricycle.org/magazine/a-second-arrow-story/

Thanks I appreciate it.

[Turnip]

7 hours ago, Lukks said:

 

I did this in the past and I learned it the hard way, never mixing things again hahaha

 

@Turnip you can start with Xuan Daoji's free healing meditation, it can help you heal, here's the link for the thread, if you have any more questions you can PM Xuan(effilang) and he will help you.

https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/55100-free-healing-activation-for-neidan-xiao-yao-pai/

 

Best Wishes!

Thank you, I’ll check that out!

[Thrice Daily]

On 08/12/2024 at 2:35 AM, Turnip said:

I am interested in anyone’s opinions or experiences about this. I’m wondering if there are practices such as qigong, that can be very healing, physically,  emotionally, generally make one feel better and happier, maybe even bring about seemingly spiritual experiences, etc, but can have negative “side effects”. In that, they take something away from the person. They subtlety disempower the person. They are not ultimately fruitful for the growth of that person’s soul. 

 

This leads into a broader question of how do you know if something is empowering you or disempowering you? Is this practice, teacher, activity, truly helping me grow and heal and become a better person, or is it handicapping my access to my deeper self-empowering nature?

 

Tonight I asked Hua Ching Ni’s I Ching for advice about how I should find a path to heal myself. I got hexagram 48, The Well. In his commentary, Ni writes:

 

”Some people dig only three to five feet for water, and upon striking rock, dig another hole and then another. With such shallow efforts, water is never reached. An ancient proverb says that it is better to dig one well deep enough to reach water than to dig nine shallow wells which provide nothing. One must willing to work through difficulties in order to reach water.
Of course, knowing whether there is water or not is important. On another level, beyond the issues of commitment and perseverance, this hexagram deals with the spiritual achievement of an individual. Knowing where to dig requires a deeper knowledge. Those who rush about digging here and there never allow themselves enough time to "sense" where the water is. Intuition is the result of self-development. Thus, one who is developed depends upon his intuitive and spiritual achievement to lead him to "water," instead of wasting a lot energy searching in many different directions.”

 

The challenge is that if you’re not developed, how would you know where to dig? For every 10 people who say they’ve found a clean well with endless water supply, 9 of them could be drinking dirty water, or the supply could be limited without them knowing. 
 

I am in my early twenties and have not dug deep enough in any direction, partly because I don’t know where the water is. Maybe it’s part of the process.

 

Does anyone have any words of advice, or experience of their own?

Get exactly what you are saying here, or somewhere close. 

 

Let me share a few points and see if on track,

 

WHO: Those you surround yourself with may take on a different flavour the more you practice. Certainly I found I became more sensitive to swearing and outlandish and reckless behaviour (pubs, night clubs) the more I practiced, so may lose friends and be viewed differently. Are you comfortable around people or stuck in judgements or the feeling of being judged to an unhealthy extreme?

 

WHAT: Daily routine can change that much it can edge other things out of life you may not notice at first as being nurturing but sometime after you may notice things are missing. What you focus on can be great but it can take focus away from other things, family, dating , mating, relating, perhaps your practices make you less inclined to let go of the new routines leading to being dominated by tasks that you would otherwise have freedom from. Can you stabilise the practice or is the schedule and duration time of practices all over the place?

 

WHY: Your very reason for life can change pretty quickly with a powerful daily practice, this can be good in the beginning but how likely is it that it will stabilise, will it be something that can really stay, reasons for starting might change, the why might change, can you keep up with the practices and can the practices keep up with your life, it's a new balancing act of priorities and reasons for doing/not doing the things you do. Is it clear you are having consistent results due to your practice, can you even tell?

 

WHERE: You could find the whole environment you live in is suddenly not nurturing , it could be seen as toxic, or perhaps not, perhaps your qigong gives you a new lease of life and you start to socialise more, what does this lifestyle look like, does it support your practice or are you now in a loop of 2 steps forward and three steps back.. Is your environment supporting you?

 

HOW: The way you do things can change, the practices can change, teachers can change.. What can be good for one time in life may not be good for another time in life, how do you gauge this early on. It is not easy. You learn different ways to practice even the same thing, there are many effects, many healings, this can go on for many years, often times it is hard to pin point the exact practices hat have the specific effects you notice... IMHO The key here is consistency, when you do the same thing daily or week in week out, it very easy to move variables in and out , up and down and you will get to know much much more, this can help with confusion, especially for those prone to trying loads of stuff , and changing up routine too often to really track = What suits and what doesn't?

 

IF: Doubt can bring all sorts of problems, we have ego that can seriously hold us back, a bit can be good, a healthy ego I think is great (you don't want a fragile one that's for sure) but in practice it can be tough, it took me years to get out of my own way and I still am , in my own way and learning, very much still a beginner in this. Early on though it was more of an issue. I was a person doing a practice. Now more of a practice being done by a person.. but work in progress always, be humble in strong foundation of basics, EVERYDAY, imo of course (gratitude is everything is key, always in good place to practice then because no fear can dwell in a place where gratitude is abundant).

 

BUT: This leads me to another thing. Maybe it is all too much, and the other areas of life need work. Maybe we are not integrated enough and that is why it feels as though the practices are not really helping totally, but more partially. While part of this is understanding we cant grow in all areas at the same time, I think it is also possible to foster a certain sense of understanding when it comes to balance. 

 

I really got a hook into this with myself by looking at the Classic 7 Chakra system, but in a very down to earth way, no need to talk about energy and centres, it can all be more matter of fact than that, grounding and relatable, It was Covey's book, "7 habits of highly effective people" that helped there. Each one actually is paired with a chakra, it must be on purpose, but I drew the conclusion myself while reading it, amazed,  it always stayed with me to an extent... 

 

On a more base level I will say this.. Unless we live as a Monk I feel it is important not to neglect the lower centres, Developing the upper centres is fine, but I have found too much visualization, meditation on the heart centre, loving kindness, metta etc, is a great path but returning to "the world" can be hard, for me personally I have to have the lower centres, switched on, If not I'm unhappy in society..  

 

Another quick point while I'm there, some practices can stimulate visions, and certain experiences that may be difficult to contain, for example practices associated with the third eye region and visualization based exercises. I can imagine people could get lost in these experiences to a detriment. I believe it is good to have practices to help bring you out of this, basic foundational , say practices to help calm the system rather that over stimulate it. Anapana, simple natural breath,  for example, or practices devoid of extra added attention, or intention to "change" something, this is not always a great way to go early on, to thinking "you" are changing something, its an easy trap, it's a simply yet challenging task , being with the change, with time though it certainly gets easier. (walking with nature helps, and lots of air squats [or squats with thick band] if required  )

 

WHEN: more practice can lead to more growth but you can become more recluse and less available to others. How do you weigh up your time in worldly affairs and time in practice...???

 

If you are a householder with family, business and many responsibilities your practice time will be very different to you , being free, on your own to live in the mountain wow, very different, ideal for practice, to be a ~true master. Both extremes I would like, to add, i'd find highly rewarding, and most things in between  

 

Fuk, Luk, Sau... 

 

ps , final note, if I am stuck in one spot, I turn to fengshui and kua numbers (carrying a simple yet trusty compass), but to be open to change, and to go when the feeling takes you, wow that is your fortune and that is your way... Bon Chance.

 

Oh and last but not least ALWAYS LISTEN TO YOUR GUT!!! Or at least try to your hearts content...

Edited December 9 by Thrice Daily

[Turnip]

2 hours ago, Thrice Daily said:

Get exactly what you are saying here, or somewhere close. 

 

Let me share a few points and see if on track,

 

WHO: Those you surround yourself with may take on a different flavour the more you practice. Certainly I found I became more sensitive to swearing and outlandish and reckless behaviour (pubs, night clubs) the more I practiced, so may lose friends and be viewed differently. Are you comfortable around people or stuck in judgements or the feeling of being judged to an unhealthy extreme?

 

WHAT: Daily routine can change that much it can edge other things out of life you may not notice at first as being nurturing but sometime after you may notice things are missing. What you focus on can be great but it can take focus away from other things, family, dating , mating, relating, perhaps your practices make you less inclined to let go of the new routines leading to being dominated by tasks that you would otherwise have freedom from. Can you stabilise the practice or is the schedule and duration time of practices all over the place?

 

WHY: Your very reason for life can change pretty quickly with a powerful daily practice, this can be good in the beginning but how likely is it that it will stabilise, will it be something that can really stay, reasons for starting might change, the why might change, can you keep up with the practices and can the practices keep up with your life, it's a new balancing act of priorities and reasons for doing/not doing the things you do. Is it clear you are having consistent results due to your practice, can you even tell?

 

WHERE: You could find the whole environment you live in is suddenly not nurturing , it could be seen as toxic, or perhaps not, perhaps your qigong gives you a new lease of life and you start to socialise more, what does this lifestyle look like, does it support your practice or are you now in a loop of 2 steps forward and three steps back.. Is your environment supporting you?

 

HOW: The way you do things can change, the practices can change, teachers can change.. What can be good for one time in life may not be good for another time in life, how do you gauge this early on. It is not easy. You learn different ways to practice even the same thing, there are many effects, many healings, this can go on for many years, often times it is hard to pin point the exact practices hat have the specific effects you notice... IMHO The key here is consistency, when you do the same thing daily or week in week out, it very easy to move variables in and out , up and down and you will get to know much much more, this can help with confusion, especially for those prone to trying loads of stuff , and changing up routine too often to really track = What suits and what doesn't?

 

IF: Doubt can bring all sorts of problems, we have ego that can seriously hold us back, a bit can be good, a healthy ego I think is great (you don't want a fragile one that's for sure) but in practice it can be tough, it took me years to get out of my own way and I still am , in my own way and learning, very much still a beginner in this. Early on though it was more of an issue. I was a person doing a practice. Now more of a practice being done by a person.. but work in progress always, be humble in strong foundation of basics, EVERYDAY, imo of course (gratitude is everything is key, always in good place to practice then because no fear can dwell in a place where gratitude is abundant).

 

BUT: This leads me to another thing. Maybe it is all too much, and the other areas of life need work. Maybe we are not integrated enough and that is why it feels as though the practices are not really helping totally, but more partially. While part of this is understanding we cant grow in all areas at the same time, I think it is also possible to foster a certain sense of understanding when it comes to balance. 

 

I really got a hook into this with myself by looking at the Classic 7 Chakra system, but in a very down to earth way, no need to talk about energy and centres, it can all be more matter of fact than that, grounding and relatable, It was Covey's book, "7 habits of highly effective people" that helped there. Each one actually is paired with a chakra, it must be on purpose, but I drew the conclusion myself while reading it, amazed,  it always stayed with me to an extent... 

 

On a more base level I will say this.. Unless we live as a Monk I feel it is important not to neglect the lower centres, Developing the upper centres is fine, but I have found too much visualization, meditation on the heart centre, loving kindness, metta etc, is a great path but returning to "the world" can be hard, for me personally I have to have the lower centres, switched on, If not I'm unhappy in society..  

 

Another quick point while I'm there, some practices can stimulate visions, and certain experiences that may be difficult to contain, for example practices associated with the third eye region and visualization based exercises. I can imagine people could get lost in these experiences to a detriment. I believe it is good to have practices to help bring you out of this, basic foundational , say practices to help calm the system rather that over stimulate it. Anapana, simple natural breath,  for example, or practices devoid of extra added attention, or intention to "change" something, this is not always a great way to go early on, to thinking "you" are changing something, its an easy trap, it's a simply yet challenging task , being with the change, with time though it certainly gets easier. (walking with nature helps, and lots of air squats [or squats with thick band] if required  )

 

WHEN: more practice can lead to more growth but you can become more recluse and less available to others. How do you weigh up your time in worldly affairs and time in practice...???

 

If you are a householder with family, business and many responsibilities your practice time will be very different to you , being free, on your own to live in the mountain wow, very different, ideal for practice, to be a ~true master. Both extremes I would like, to add, i'd find highly rewarding, and most things in between  

 

Fuk, Luk, Sau... 

 

ps , final note, if I am stuck in one spot, I turn to fengshui and kua numbers (carrying a simple yet trusty compass), but to be open to change, and to go when the feeling takes you, wow that is your fortune and that is your way... Bon Chance.

 

Oh and last but not least ALWAYS LISTEN TO YOUR GUT!!! Or at least try to your hearts content...

Wow this is a really thoughtful response. Thank you. You have a very good read on me and where I'm at. Having my feet firmly planted on the ground, engaged in the world, is not my strong suit. It's tricky because my main reason for wanting to find a good healing practice is so that I can have a tool to help me be in the world more. It's so that I can feel more connected to others, calmer, less anger and shame and fear of judgment. Emotional and interpersonal trauma, psycho-energetic trauma from drugs and hallucinogens, disillusionment, dissociation, nervous system stuck in fight or flight, has led to a desperate search for some type of sustainable relief and healing, eventually to qigong and such, but it seems desperation isn't necessarily the most stable or sustainable platform for these things... Thank you again, you have given me a lot to think about.

[Thrice Daily]

Wow that’s awesome. I can draw from my experience and see if I can resolve the some good checkpoints ,, 

 

You know one springs to mind. It’s funny what you find in Taoism that seems unrelated and one simple daily practice can change some massive dramatically. 
 

im thinking about social anxiety and associated issues deeply rooted and anchored to nervous system , how to shift?

 

A really powerful way I started to change was when I started using the book Chi Self Massage…

 

One lesson in there is, Draw Tear From Eye

 

Simply staring at my thumb every day around 5-8 inches from my nose,,, but no blinking, like burning concentration.

 

wow it was like eating a red hot chilli pepper 😂 

 

but really… I think this takes a deep effect in nervous system and retraining eyes is a massive portal to the changes you seek. 
 

There are so many reasons but I can’t really have time to list right now. Still that book I mentioned , if you order it you want be sorry. 
 

A lot of what you are going through is deeply anchored in the body. As it is for all of us. This book delivers a great understanding of this.

 

but better it gives practical easy exercises we can do through the day to stabilise real results a few minutes at the time.

 

there are other eye exercises in there too. I learned all the exercises and I consider it a Bible. I studied massage and imo no book does what this does. It’s simple common sense once you know it but regular massage addresses none of it. Funny old world isn’t it.

 

The burning eyeballs tear trick is great. I promise after you will keep eye contact and even while you’re doing it your whole physiology will change MASSIVELY 

 

Gawd Darn It!!!!!

 

ps both eyes have to water though or it doesn’t count, good luck my friend, speak soon. And pm any time 👍 

[Turnip]

3 hours ago, Thrice Daily said:

Wow that’s awesome. I can draw from my experience and see if I can resolve the some good checkpoints ,, 

 

You know one springs to mind. It’s funny what you find in Taoism that seems unrelated and one simple daily practice can change some massive dramatically. 
 

im thinking about social anxiety and associated issues deeply rooted and anchored to nervous system , how to shift?

 

A really powerful way I started to change was when I started using the book Chi Self Massage…

 

One lesson in there is, Draw Tear From Eye

 

Simply staring at my thumb every day around 5-8 inches from my nose,,, but no blinking, like burning concentration.

 

wow it was like eating a red hot chilli pepper 😂 

 

but really… I think this takes a deep effect in nervous system and retraining eyes is a massive portal to the changes you seek. 
 

There are so many reasons but I can’t really have time to list right now. Still that book I mentioned , if you order it you want be sorry. 
 

A lot of what you are going through is deeply anchored in the body. As it is for all of us. This book delivers a great understanding of this.

 

but better it gives practical easy exercises we can do through the day to stabilise real results a few minutes at the time.

 

there are other eye exercises in there too. I learned all the exercises and I consider it a Bible. I studied massage and imo no book does what this does. It’s simple common sense once you know it but regular massage addresses none of it. Funny old world isn’t it.

 

The burning eyeballs tear trick is great. I promise after you will keep eye contact and even while you’re doing it your whole physiology will change MASSIVELY 

 

Gawd Darn It!!!!!

 

ps both eyes have to water though or it doesn’t count, good luck my friend, speak soon. And pm any time 👍 

Thank you for the advice and understanding 🙏 I’ll try out those exercises and let you know how it works!

[Master Logray]

On 12/8/2024 at 9:35 AM, Turnip said:

I am interested in anyone’s opinions or experiences about this. I’m wondering if there are practices such as qigong, that can be very healing, physically,  emotionally, generally make one feel better and happier, maybe even bring about seemingly spiritual experiences, etc, but can have negative “side effects”. In that, they take something away from the person. They subtlety disempower the person. They are not ultimately fruitful for the growth of that person’s soul. 

 

This leads into a broader question of how do you know if something is empowering you or disempowering you? Is this practice, teacher, activity, truly helping me grow and heal and become a better person, or is it handicapping my access to my deeper self-empowering nature?

 

 

If disempowering is what you mainly worry about, then don't do any spiritual practices because they do disempower the person in different areas, albeit for their benefits.  Nothing is without side effects in this world. 

 

Anyhow Qigong is not really spiritual/soul practices, unless you go very very deep.    I think it is better than gym or jogging, but don't expect very "healing, physically,  emotionally, generally make one feel better and happier, maybe even bring about seemingly spiritual experiences".  You need more than Qigong exercises for that.

[Mark Foote]

On 12/7/2024 at 5:35 PM, Turnip said:

 

I am in my early twenties and have not dug deep enough in any direction, partly because I don’t know where the water is. Maybe it’s part of the process.

 

Does anyone have any words of advice, or experience of their own?

 

 

Using a forked branch or two l-shaped rods, a water witch will hold their chosen tool while walking slowly across the land. As they move over the water source, the tool will move, indicating where to dig or drill. Some dowsers can even specify the depth at which to drill.

https://blackflash.ca/expanded/how-to-dowse

 

I can say that certain things stand out for me, with regard to moving from the source. From my own writing:

 

The presence of mind can utilize the location of attention to maintain the balance of the body and coordinate activity in the movement of breath, without a particularly conscious effort to do so. There can also come a moment when the movement of breath necessitates the placement of attention at a certain location in the body, or at a series of locations, with the ability to remain awake as the location of attention shifts retained through the exercise of presence.

 

(Appendix–A Way of Living)

 

 

If I can find a way to experience gravity in the placement of attention as the source of activity in my posture, and particular ligaments as the source of the reciprocity in that activity, then I have an ease.

(Applying the Pali Instructions)

 

 

The idea here is that the consciousness identified with the self, with “I am”, must be allowed to move freely in the body, while a presence of mind sufficient to retain one-pointedness is mustered up.  If the presence is mustered, there’s a feeling of ease connected with one-pointedness, and a sense of gravity (“towering up like a mile-high wall”, as Yuanwu used to say) that allows the automatic activity of the body to proceed solely by virtue of one-pointedness (and the location of one-pointedness).

(My Advice)
 

 

My advice would be to look for consciousness to move away from the head in the moments before falling asleep, then allow for that same freedom of movement in seated meditation.

(from a pending post on my own site)

 

My abbreviation of Gautama's "four arisings of mindfulness":

 

1) Relax the activity of the body in inhalation and exhalation;

2) Find a feeling of ease and calm the senses connected with balance, in inhalation and exhalation;

3) Appreciate and detach from thought, in inhalation and exhalation;

4) Look to the free location of consciousness for the automatic activity of inhalation and exhalation.

Bear in mind:

 

But usually in counting breathing or following breathing, you feel as if you are doing something, you know– you are following breathing, and you are counting breathing. This is, you know, why counting breathing or following breathing practice is, you know, for us it is some preparation– preparatory practice for shikantaza because for most people it is rather difficult to sit, you know, just to sit. 

(“The Background of Shikantaza”, Shunryu Suzuki; San Francisco, February 22, 1970)

 

 

Edited December 13 by Mark Foote

[Turnip]

3 hours ago, Mark Foote said:

 

Using a forked branch or two l-shaped rods, a water witch will hold their chosen tool while walking slowly across the land. As they move over the water source, the tool will move, indicating where to dig or drill. Some dowsers can even specify the depth at which to drill.

https://blackflash.ca/expanded/how-to-dowse

 

I can say that certain things stand out for me, with regard to moving from the source. From my own writing:

 

The presence of mind can utilize the location of attention to maintain the balance of the body and coordinate activity in the movement of breath, without a particularly conscious effort to do so. There can also come a moment when the movement of breath necessitates the placement of attention at a certain location in the body, or at a series of locations, with the ability to remain awake as the location of attention shifts retained through the exercise of presence.

 

(Appendix–A Way of Living)

 

 

If I can find a way to experience gravity in the placement of attention as the source of activity in my posture, and particular ligaments as the source of the reciprocity in that activity, then I have an ease.

(Applying the Pali Instructions)

 

 

The idea here is that the consciousness identified with the self, with “I am”, must be allowed to move freely in the body, while a presence of mind sufficient to retain one-pointedness is mustered up.  If the presence is mustered, there’s a feeling of ease connected with one-pointedness, and a sense of gravity (“towering up like a mile-high wall”, as Yuanwu used to say) that allows the automatic activity of the body to proceed solely by virtue of one-pointedness (and the location of one-pointedness).

(My Advice)
 

 

My advice would be to look for consciousness to move away from the head in the moments before falling asleep, then allow for that same freedom of movement in seated meditation.

(from a pending post on my own site)

 

My abbreviation of Gautama's "four arisings of mindfulness":

 

1) Relax the activity of the body in inhalation and exhalation;

2) Find a feeling of ease and calm the senses connected with balance, in inhalation and exhalation;

3) Appreciate and detach from thought, in inhalation and exhalation;

4) Look to the free location of consciousness for the automatic activity of inhalation and exhalation.

Bear in mind:

 

But usually in counting breathing or following breathing, you feel as if you are doing something, you know– you are following breathing, and you are counting breathing. This is, you know, why counting breathing or following breathing practice is, you know, for us it is some preparation– preparatory practice for shikantaza because for most people it is rather difficult to sit, you know, just to sit. 

(“The Background of Shikantaza”, Shunryu Suzuki; San Francisco, February 22, 1970)

 

 

Thank you so much for this, this is very quality. I didn’t even realize dowsing was originally meant to find water underground, what do you know. I will do some meditation using your instructions thank you