Common motifs, symbols, beliefs etc. across cultures

[Sir Darius the Clairvoyent]

So, there are aspects of different spiritual traditions that seem to have come to the same conclusion, but with different language and symbols. 
 

Here, I’d like to discuss some of these. A follow up could be, is this innate, or does it point to a common origin (obviously, in some cases it will be due to shared origin, in others due to the fact that we are the same spieces facing similar challenges on the same planet. Some might be down to pure chanche, others might be a combination of all of the above).
 

I’d love to hear your thoughts, and will ofc contribute myself as well. But right now, I think I’d be better of taking the advice of the all-father (Odin):

Havamal (sayings of the high one), stanza 23:

The unwise man is awake all night, 
and ponders everything over; 
when morning comes he is weary in mind, 
and all is a burden as ever.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 14 by Sir Darius the Clairvoyent

[Sir Darius the Clairvoyent]

Oneness 

 

Gospel of Thomas

(3) Jesus said, "If those who lead you say to you, 'See, the kingdom is in the sky,' then the
birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will
precede you. Rather, the kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you
come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you
who are the sons of the living father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in
poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

 

Hymn to Zeus

(Note: I have it in print. Translated from Ancient Greek to Norwegian. There are versions of it on English online, but I think they are really bad. I decided to let software translate the Norwegian translation. That might have been a mistake, but anyway)

 

Supreme God with many names,

You are eternal, almighty.

You govern the world by Your law, the sovereign of nature.

 

Mortal humans You granted the right to turn to You,

Zeus, for we are of Your kin, bearing a faint echo of Your voice,

we who live our brief day and harvest upon the earth.

 

Always my song rises to You, my hymn praises Your power.

The earth is Yours, and the vast vault of the heavens surrounding it,

willingly they obey You and follow wherever You lead.

 

In Your hands, invincible, You lift the weapon,

the flaming power of lightning, the ever-burning primordial fire.

When it strikes, all of nature freezes in terror.

Through its might, Your law is upheld, common to all,

running through everything, shining in the sunlight,

glimmering in the stars, reflecting even in the smallest being.

 

Therefore, You are the highest King, all through all.

Nothing happens on our earth without You, our God and Ruler,

nothing in the high vault of heaven, nothing in the sea,

except for the evil deeds of humans – they know no better.

 

But their evil You take and turn to good,

creating law from lawlessness, embracing the unlovable with love.

 

You unite the good and the bad in harmony,

everything must align with the law that eternally governs all.

The law he seeks to escape, miserable and wretched,

he who inwardly longs for a treasure, the possession of goodness.

 

Yet he cannot see or hear the law of all things.

Happy would he live if only he followed it.

Without aim or reason, he is driven far from what is good.

At times, it is honor that entices him—what shameful strife he endures for it,

at other times, his heart turns to wealth, gathered by wicked means.

 

Laziness captures one, another is ruled by lust,

driven by many desires and torn apart by restlessness of soul.

Empty is all their striving, and their entire life meaningless.

 

Zeus, giver of all gifts, who hurls the lightning from the clouds,

save us mortal children from all blindness and foolishness.

Cleanse our souls of evil, grant us a share of Your wisdom,

which governs all, the foundation and cause of Your justice,

so that we may be honored by You and honor You in return,

that our songs may praise Your work.

 

This alone is worthy of us who are created to die.

For this is the most beautiful gift gods and humans share:

to honor the law of the cosmos.

 

CLEANTHES

Born 331/30, died 232/31 BCE. After Zeno, the founder of Stoicism, Cleanthes led the school for 32 years.

 

Bhagavad Gita, Chapter 10, Verse 20

 

I am the Self, O Gudakesa, seated in the hearts of all creatures. I am the beginning, the middle and the end of all beings.

Isha Upanishad, 16

 O Pūṣan, sole traveller, Yama, Sun, child of Prajāpati, recall thy rays; withdraw thy light that I may behold thee of loveliest form. Whosoever that Person is, that also am I.

Invocatory Verse by Swami Dayananda

The whole (Brahman) is all that is invisible. The whole (Brahman) is all that is visible. The whole (Hiranyagarbha) was born out of the whole (Brahman). When the whole (the Universe) is absorbed into the whole (Brahman) the whole alone (Brahman) remains.

Tawhid (the oneness of God):

 

“Say, ‘He is Allah, [who is] One,

Allah, the Eternal Refuge.

He neither begets nor is born,

Nor is there to Him any equivalent.’”

— (Surah Al-Ikhlas, 112:1-4)

 

Aristophanes’ speech in The Symposium, Plato

 

In the beginning, humans were different from what they are now. The original human nature was not like the present one, but rather there were three sexes then, not two as now, male and female. In addition to these, there was a third sex, which was a combination of the other two. This combination was called androgynous, as it shared in both male and female characteristics.

 

Each human being was originally round, with back and sides forming a circle; they had four hands, four legs, and two faces on a single head, facing opposite directions. These beings could walk upright like us, but they could also roll over and move quickly using all eight limbs. Their strength and power were immense, and their arrogance caused them to challenge the gods. In punishment, Zeus decided to weaken them by splitting them in two.

 

After they were split, each half longed for its other half. They would embrace and try to become one again, so much so that they often neglected their basic needs and died of hunger or inactivity. To solve this, Zeus moved their genitals to the front of their bodies, enabling reproduction and giving them a way to find some satisfaction in their longing for unity.

 

This, then, is the origin of our desire for love: it is the pursuit of wholeness, the desire to be reunited with our other half and restored to our original nature.

 

Commentary: Possibly my fav myth. The text speaks for itself, so I’ll keep it short. It is from here we get the concept of «soul mates» and «other half.» That is, two separate people sharing the same soul. Also the hermaphroditistic aspect is a recognized aspect of the reconstroctued proto indo European cosmos. It is found in the story below to, in Ymir.

 

Norse myth

This turned into a little bit of a ramble. Reason being is that this is speculation, based on legit texts, but the text doesn’t spell it out: so we have to rely on speculation, symbolism, etymology etc. And to be frank, I kind of forced it in here due to it being one of my favorite topics.

Spoiler

 

Let’s take a look at its cosmology.

From Voluspa (Prophecy of the völva, a seeress)

1. Hearing I ask | from the holy races,
From Heimdall's sons, | both high and low;
Thou wilt, Valfather, | that well I relate
Old tales I remember | of men long ago.

2. I remember yet | the giants of yore,
Who gave me bread | in the days gone by;
Nine worlds I knew, | the nine in the tree
With mighty roots | beneath the mold.

3. Of old was the age | when Ymir lived;
Sea nor cool waves | nor sand there were;
Earth had not been, | nor heaven above,
But a yawning gap, | and grass nowhere.

4. Then Bur's sons lifted | the level land,
Mithgarth the mighty | there they made;
The sun from the south | warmed the stones of earth,
And green was the ground | with growing leeks.

5. The sun, the sister | of the moon, from the south
Her right hand cast | over heaven's rim;
No knowledge she had | where her home should be,
The moon knew not | what might was his,
The stars knew not | where their stations were.

 

Let’s explore it. Verse 3. refers to gigungagap (or the yawning gap as it is translated to here), which is… quite tricky to put into words actually. It is the primordol state. It is nothing, but yet it contains the potential of creation, and everything that came into existence. Does that make sense?

Audhumbla, which means abundant wealth, was the very first creature and a cosmic cow (😂). (The cosmic cow is referenced in Zoroastrianism and Vedic litteraturenas well!). She lived of the salt in the ice of gigungagap. Licking the ice, it uncovered the first giant, Ymir (giant is also a tiny bit of a mistranslation. The term used is Jotun. A jotun is not nessecarily huge, but never the less, they are comparable to the Greek titans and other beings often referred to as giants in English, so no big deal).

What’s fun about Ymir, is that he (it?) is a hermaphrodite. Cabaple of giving birth by itself. No reason to go trough the whole geneology, so I’ll skip some.

 

Ymir -> beings -> Odin, Villi and Ve -> Ask and Embla
 

As mentioned, Ymir is the ancestor of all. Odin, also known as the all father, and his brothers are the creator of Ask and Embla (think Adam and Eve, the first humans who gave birth to all others).

 

Furthermore, we have the world three. Exactly how they pictured it, we might never know for sure. What we DO know is that all the realms are connected trough Yggdrasil.

 

Ill include some possible interpretations in the attatchments.

1. Överhogdal Weave 1A, Viking age, Sweden

interpertations vary. I see the symetrical pattern in the middle as Yggdrasil, standing on the horns of an elk or deer. From this, one can speculate that Yggdrasil was sort of a metaphor. Both a part of nature, but also including all of nature.

2. Neil Price think the world three might be the milky way

3. “Yggdrasill, the Mundane tree”, Baxter’s Patent Oil Printing, from a plate included in the English translation of the Prose Edda by Oluf Olufsen Bagge (1847). This painting is based on written descriptions.
 

4. Jormungandr, the serpent/dragon (used to be the exact same word my friends) that encircles the oceans. A serpent eating its tail is highly symbolic, is it not?

 

Also, in the Norse mind, there existed no differantiation between the natural and supernatural. They were equally real, existing together. Love it!

 

Summary: it is clear that everything comes from one. In other words, all that is are aspects of the same substance, ergo: oneness. Further more, a lot of the names have meanings such as grandmother, all father, tool (like in the sense of a hammer or a drill: something that is used to create and shape), and the world three connects everything.

 

A curiosity, compare the passage from Voluspa (in the spoiler) to this passage of the vedas:

 

There was neither non-existence nor existence then

there was neither the realm of space nor the sky which is beyond...

There was neither death nor immortality then.

There was no distinguishing sign of night nor of day.

 

 

in the future, there are a couple of other concepts id like to explore. Possibly solar religions or symbolism, the dying and rising god, the world tree, axis mundi, war between classes of gods, use of funny substances, sacrifice, burials, order and chaos… my god, there is an endless amount of topics to choose from here.

 

I hope this is of interest to you as well, and feedback, your own theories etc are very welcomed. Id like to summon @Nungali

@Apech we have not spoken a lot, but we seem to share an interest in myth and you seem quite knowledgeable about aspects of it?

(Check the Norse myth section, and the numbers and images in the spoiler below will make sense)

Spoiler

 

1.

2.

3.

4.

 

 

Edited December 14 by Sir Darius the Clairvoyent

[Cobie]

16 hours ago, Sir Darius the Clairvoyent said:

So, there are aspects of different spiritual traditions that seem to have come to the same conclusion, but with different language and symbols. … Here, I’d like to discuss some of these. … I’d love to hear your thoughts …

 

wind and water - 風水 feng1 shui3 - feng shui. 

water and wind - John 3-5, ‘υδατος και πνεύματος’ 

 

 

Edited December 14 by Cobie

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

Hamsa

Edited December 14 by -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-

[Nungali]

6 hours ago, Sir Darius the Clairvoyent said:

Oneness 

 

 

 

 

5. And the infant grew strong; yet its strength was in its weakness; and though to look at it from before was to look upon a man-child, from behind it was a little girl with golden hair. Now, when the child wished to tempt a maid he faced and approached her; and when the child wished to tempt a man she turned her back on him and fled.

 

4. But one day the child met, at the self-same hour, Love; and the man, seeing a woman, approached her eagerly, and the woman, seeing a man, fled, so that he might capture her. Thus it came about that the child met the child and wondered, not knowing that the child had lost the child. So it was that they walked side by side.

 

3. Then that part of the child that was man loved and lusted for that part of the child that was woman; and each knew not that each was the other, and felt that they were two and yet one, nevertheless one and yet two. And when one said: “Who art thou?” the other answered at the self-same moment: “Who am I?”

 

2. Soon becoming perplexed if I were Thou, or if Thou were I, it came about that the I mingled with the Thou, and the Thou with the I, so that six added to ten became sixteen, which is felicity; for it is the interplay of the elements. Four are the elements that make man, and four are the elements that make woman. Thus was the child reborn.

 

1. But though the man ruleth the woman, and the woman ruleth the man, the Child ruleth both its mother and father, and being five is Emperor over the kingdom of their hearts. To its father it giveth four, and to its mother it giveth four, yet it remaineth five, for it hath of its father an half and of its mother an half; but in itself it is equal to both its father and its mother; for it is father of fathers and mother of mothers.

 

0. Therefore is it One Whole, and not two halves; and being One is Thirteen, which is called Nothing when it is All-things.

 

 

- by General J.F.C. Fuller

 

 

 

Edited December 14 by Nungali

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

Will I get banned if I post a swastika 

[Nungali]

The Pleiades  seems a good example ;

 

They have been known since antiquity to cultures all around the world,^[28] including the Celts (Welsh: Tŵr Tewdws, Irish: Streoillín); pre-colonial Filipinos (who called it Mapúlon, Mulo‑pulo or Muró‑púro, among other names), for whom it indicated the beginning of the year;^[29][30]Hawaiians (who call them Makaliʻi),^[31]Māori (who call them Matariki); Indigenous Australians (from several traditions); the Achaemenid Empire, whence in Persians (who called them Parvīn – پروین – or Parvī – پروی);^[32] the Arabs (who call them al-Thurayyā; الثريا^[33]); the Chinese (who called them mǎo; 昴); the Quechua (who call them Qullqa or the storehouse); the Japanese (who call them Subaru; 昴, スバル); the Maya; the Aztec; the Sioux; the Kiowa;^[34][35] and the Cherokee. In Hinduism, the Pleiades are known as Kṛttikā and are scripturally associated with the war deity Kartikeya and are also identified or associated with the Saptamatrika(s) (Seven Mothers). Hindus celebrate the first day (new moon) of the month of Kartik as Diwali, a festival of abundance and lamps. ^{[citation needed]} The Pleiades are also mentioned three times in the Bible.^[36][37]

Galileo's drawings of the Pleiades star cluster from Sidereus Nuncius

The earliest known depiction of the Pleiades is likely a Northern German Bronze Age artifact known as the Nebra sky disk, dated to approximately 1600 BC.^[38] The Babylonian star catalogues name the Pleiades ^MULMUL (𒀯𒀯), meaning "stars" (literally "star star"), and they head the list of stars along the ecliptic, reflecting the fact that they were close to the point of the vernal equinox around the twenty-third century BC. The Ancient Egyptians may have used the names "Followers" and "Ennead" in the prognosis texts of the Calendar of Lucky and Unlucky Days of papyrus Cairo 86637.^[39] Some Greek astronomers considered them to be a distinct constellation, and they are mentioned by Hesiod's Works and Days,^[40]Homer's Iliad and Odyssey,^[41] and the Geoponica.^[42] The Pleiades was the most well-known "star" among pre-Islamic Arabs and so often referred to simply as "the Star" (an-Najm; النجم).^[43] Some scholars of Islam suggested that the Pleiades are the "star" mentioned in Surah An-Najm ("The Star") in the Quran.^[44]

On numerous cylinder seals from the beginning of the first millennium BC, M45 is represented by seven points, while the Seven Gods appear, on low-reliefs of Neo-Assyrian royal palaces, wearing long open robes and large cylindrical headdresses surmounted by short feathers and adorned with three frontal rows of horns and a crown of feathers, while carrying both an ax and a knife, as well as a bow and a quiver.^[45]

 

As noted by scholar Stith Thompson, the constellation was "nearly always imagined" as a group of seven sisters, and their myths explain why there are only six.^[46] Some scientists suggest that these may come from observations back when Pleione was farther from Atlas and more visible as a separate star as far back as 100,000 BC.^{[47]  "}

 

^{VERY curious because several Australian Aboriginal cultures hold the same story}

"

The Star Dreaming story of the Seven Sisters is one of the most widely distributed ancient stories amongst Aboriginal Australia. The songline for this story covers more than half the width of the continent, from deep in the Central Desert out to the west coast. The songline travels through many different language groups and different sections of the narrative are recognised in different parts of the country.

The story relates to the journey of the seven sisters that make up the star cluster known as the Pleiades, in the constellation Taurus. Mythological stories of the Pleiades also cross many other cultures outside Australia – the story also appears in ancient Greek mythology. Observed from central Australia, the Pleiades star group rises above the horizon soon after sunset and keeps a low trajectory above the horizon. Perhaps for this reason this relatively small star cluster takes on extra importance, as it appears to launch from the earth’s surface and make its journey in close proximity to the land. "

 

more at

 

https://japingkaaboriginalart.com/articles/star-dreaming-seven-sisters/

 

 

 

 

 

[Nungali]

Just now, -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- said:

Will I get banned if I post a swastika 

 

Check with Sir Darius about that !

 

( private 'joke ' )

[Sir Darius the Clairvoyent]

9 minutes ago, -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- said:

Will I get banned if I post a swastika 

I certainly don’t hope so. It is an scientific and widespread symbols. I don’t see how any reasonable person can blame some one living thousands of years ago for useing a symbol asscociated with antisemitism. It is a thousands of old years, Eurasian symbol. 
 

I mean,  I wouldn’t advice putting on boots, growing a mustache and wawing around it, but pointing out that it was an extremely popular, widespread, ancient and positive symbol historically, how can that be wrong? That’s just fact.

 

Anyway, I am willing to take the fall for you:

[Sir Darius the Clairvoyent]

50 minutes ago, Nungali said:

The Pleiades  seems a good example ;

 

They have been known since antiquity to cultures all around the world,^[28] including the Celts (Welsh: Tŵr Tewdws, Irish: Streoillín); pre-colonial Filipinos (who called it Mapúlon, Mulo‑pulo or Muró‑púro, among other names), for whom it indicated the beginning of the year;^[29][30]Hawaiians (who call them Makaliʻi),^[31]Māori (who call them Matariki); Indigenous Australians (from several traditions); the Achaemenid Empire, whence in Persians (who called them Parvīn – پروین – or Parvī – پروی);^[32] the Arabs (who call them al-Thurayyā; الثريا^[33]); the Chinese (who called them mǎo; 昴); the Quechua (who call them Qullqa or the storehouse); the Japanese (who call them Subaru; 昴, スバル); the Maya; the Aztec; the Sioux; the Kiowa;^[34][35] and the Cherokee. In Hinduism, the Pleiades are known as Kṛttikā and are scripturally associated with the war deity Kartikeya and are also identified or associated with the Saptamatrika(s) (Seven Mothers). Hindus celebrate the first day (new moon) of the month of Kartik as Diwali, a festival of abundance and lamps. ^{[citation needed]} The Pleiades are also mentioned three times in the Bible.^[36][37]

Galileo's drawings of the Pleiades star cluster from Sidereus Nuncius

The earliest known depiction of the Pleiades is likely a Northern German Bronze Age artifact known as the Nebra sky disk, dated to approximately 1600 BC.^[38] The Babylonian star catalogues name the Pleiades ^MULMUL (𒀯𒀯), meaning "stars" (literally "star star"), and they head the list of stars along the ecliptic, reflecting the fact that they were close to the point of the vernal equinox around the twenty-third century BC. The Ancient Egyptians may have used the names "Followers" and "Ennead" in the prognosis texts of the Calendar of Lucky and Unlucky Days of papyrus Cairo 86637.^[39] Some Greek astronomers considered them to be a distinct constellation, and they are mentioned by Hesiod's Works and Days,^[40]Homer's Iliad and Odyssey,^[41] and the Geoponica.^[42] The Pleiades was the most well-known "star" among pre-Islamic Arabs and so often referred to simply as "the Star" (an-Najm; النجم).^[43] Some scholars of Islam suggested that the Pleiades are the "star" mentioned in Surah An-Najm ("The Star") in the Quran.^[44]

On numerous cylinder seals from the beginning of the first millennium BC, M45 is represented by seven points, while the Seven Gods appear, on low-reliefs of Neo-Assyrian royal palaces, wearing long open robes and large cylindrical headdresses surmounted by short feathers and adorned with three frontal rows of horns and a crown of feathers, while carrying both an ax and a knife, as well as a bow and a quiver.^[45]

 

As noted by scholar Stith Thompson, the constellation was "nearly always imagined" as a group of seven sisters, and their myths explain why there are only six.^[46] Some scientists suggest that these may come from observations back when Pleione was farther from Atlas and more visible as a separate star as far back as 100,000 BC.^{[47]  "}

 

^{VERY curious because several Australian Aboriginal cultures hold the same story}

"

The Star Dreaming story of the Seven Sisters is one of the most widely distributed ancient stories amongst Aboriginal Australia. The songline for this story covers more than half the width of the continent, from deep in the Central Desert out to the west coast. The songline travels through many different language groups and different sections of the narrative are recognised in different parts of the country.

The story relates to the journey of the seven sisters that make up the star cluster known as the Pleiades, in the constellation Taurus. Mythological stories of the Pleiades also cross many other cultures outside Australia – the story also appears in ancient Greek mythology. Observed from central Australia, the Pleiades star group rises above the horizon soon after sunset and keeps a low trajectory above the horizon. Perhaps for this reason this relatively small star cluster takes on extra importance, as it appears to launch from the earth’s surface and make its journey in close proximity to the land. "

 

more at

 

https://japingkaaboriginalart.com/articles/star-dreaming-seven-sisters/

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, it is extremely intriguing. I have watched some Graham Hancock, and I know many consider him a loon. I’ll tell you why he appeal to me tho: he doesn’t say this is how it happened, but points out inconsistencies about the mainstream narrative, and urges us to at least consider alternative models. Some of the things he shows, is undoubtedly hard to fit with the narrative of 6.000 years ago people in the Fertile Crescent 🌙 invented this amazing technology of harvesting grains. This gave people free time, that they used to make art and do math and write literature, and ever since then civilization have progressed and given the savages access to the fruits of civilsations, like hot dogs and freedom of religion, and know we are at the peak. The peak of course being 21th century white people.

[Sir Darius the Clairvoyent]

A little random, @Nungali, but I’d like to hear your thoughts on this. All cultures have concepts of spirits or supernatural beings, no? Angels, jinns, dwarves and elves and gnomes, zombies, big foot, whatever. Today we have a lore about aliens. 

To what degree this is a myth or not, I am not sure, but two things about the first encounter between the Spanish and Indians fascinates me. It is claimed that the Indians simply couldn’t see the ship. Also, that they interpret men riding horses as one creature: half man, half horse. IF this is indeed true, you’d think it is because they simply had no framework to understand what they were looking at, no, so they «saw» it the way that made the most sense to them?

 

I wonder, do you think all these might be different cultural interpretations of the same… phenomema? That is, something that we can’t quite comprehend, so it sort of manifests in accordance to the culture and time? If you are chistian, you encounter angels. If you live in the Forrest of Northern Europe, you see elves. If you live in the modern, technological, space and future orienented era, you see aliens. 
 

 

[Nungali]

20 hours ago, Sir Darius the Clairvoyent said:

A little random, @Nungali, but I’d like to hear your thoughts on this. All cultures have concepts of spirits or supernatural beings, no? Angels, jinns, dwarves and elves and gnomes, zombies, big foot, whatever. Today we have a lore about aliens. 

 

Ahhh ... one of my favourite subjects !

 

Medieval  people , harassed by religionists of the time  often depicted  being uplifted by angels or interfered with by demons . Modern people harassed by science  ( )   ; some report   good or bad aliens  ..... abducted and have weird things done to them . At one stage , aliens seemed very interested in our bottoms .  

 

20 hours ago, Sir Darius the Clairvoyent said:

To what degree this is a myth or not, I am not sure, but two things about the first encounter between the Spanish and Indians fascinates me. It is claimed that the Indians simply couldn’t see the ship. Also, that they interpret men riding horses as one creature: half man, half horse. IF this is indeed true, you’d think it is because they simply had no framework to understand what they were looking at, no, so they «saw» it the way that made the most sense to them?

 

... as we still do

 

Early account of Aboriginals observing  a ship coming up the coast , exploring the 'new land ' .   

'  We saw clouds at at sea, moving along  (sails ) under them was  an upturned shell,  like an island , it had some trees on it  (masts ) then a water insect came out of it and walked across the water  ( a long boat with oars ) it came up onto the beach and men got out of it !  '

 

 

 

20 hours ago, Sir Darius the Clairvoyent said:

 

I wonder, do you think all these might be different cultural interpretations of the same… phenomema? That is, something that we can’t quite comprehend, so it sort of manifests in accordance to the culture and time? If you are chistian, you encounter angels. If you live in the Forrest of Northern Europe, you see elves. If you live in the modern, technological, space and future orienented era, you see aliens. 
 

 

 

 

You got it !    This book is a must for nutting this all out  and guess what ? Surprise !    I have talked endlessly about it before   (including to you )   ;  to explain the connection ;

 

In it Harpur about exactly this ; he  writes about a little experiment ; someone takes the ghist of a story ;  people are travelling through the forest , they come into an area that 'feels' different , it has an 'energy' and they feel charged or  excited or 'prickly' ('goosebumps', hair 'standing on end ' )   a light appears in the sky and descends . It is like a  glassy or watery sphere and a figure can vaguely be sen inside it . The strange feeling rises and then different things seem to happen to the different people witnessing . Later they 'come out of it ' and it seems for some there has been some 'lost' time or a time discrepancy .

 

the description was shown to people from various cultures  and they all knew what it was  

 

' To be sure ... to be sure ... twas the fairy people again  , they are always doing that . '

 

' This was obviously  another appearance of the Virgin Mary '

 

' Typical manifestation of the Queen of the Witches , she is non-corporeal '

 

'Classic UFO encounter of the third kind ! '

 

The people that the story originally came from where happy about thir expereince , they felt they had communication with their ancestors.

 

review ;

" First, the book revels in the phenomena and manifestations which fascinate children, mystics, dreamers and anoraked eccentrics, but which proper science and serious inquiry will not touch. We are invited to take seriously and think deeply about alien visitations and abductions, lake monsters, Bigfoot (or is it bigfeet?), grey ladies, faerie folk, lights in the sky, little people and a glorious cast of absolute weirdoes from out there or in here. Second, Harpur finds in all of this a profound insight into the nature of reality, and what it is to be human. That insight is unsettling and disturbing. ...

Those encounters in our age are likely to be with alleged aliens, large or small, but bear uncanny resemblances to the age-old encounters with faerie folk, spirits, and other manifestations of different places and other times.... The standard response to all this is to argue either that it is all in us, in the form of persistent patterns of hallucination or madness; or the projection of archetypal patterns onto reality. Alternatively, the phenomena are taken seriously as being evidence of something really out there in the physical world, as aliens visiting the Earth, or prehistoric creatures living in deep cold lakes etc. Harpur pursues a different, and more challenging line. What is at stake, he suggests, is the nature of reality itself.

     With Jung, Harpur argues that these are phenomena of the psyche, but that psyche is of the world, not just of us as individuals. Indeed, our much cherished individual selves and psyches may be no more than embodiments of that world-soul (rediscovered in our age as the goddess Gaia). The phenomena in which the book rejoices may be appearances to us of its ancient inhabitants. They appear in different forms to match changing cultural expectations and concerns. An appearance of the Goddess becomes an appearance of the Blessed Virgin Mary, becomes a woman with golden hair emerging from her spacecraft. The mistake, he suggests, is to deny and repress these manifestations, since the repressed returns, pathologically and dangerously, if separated from a context of meaning and belief. Harpur suggests that a function of these daimonic forces may now be to undermine a deadening and narrow scientific orthodoxy and world-view - the 'single vision' which Blake so deplored."

 

https://www.harpur.org/x1Daimonic.htm

 

 

 

https://www.essentiafoundation.org/seeing-things-the-daimonic-nature-of-reality/reading/

[Nungali]

how can i resist

 

 

 

[Sir Darius the Clairvoyent]

29 minutes ago, Nungali said:

At one stage , aliens seemed very interested in our bottoms .

Haha yes, and it all took place in the no lands of America. «IM NOT GAY»

«Early account of Aboriginals observing  a ship coming up the coast , exploring the 'new land ' .   

'  We saw clouds at at sea, moving along  (sails ) under them was  an upturned shell,  like an island , it had some trees on it  (masts ) then a water insect came out of it and walked across the water  ( a long boat with oars ) it came up onto the beach and men got out of it !  '» 

 

This could throw a lot of light on many stories of old, I am sure. No particular comes to mind, but I’ll remember this

 

«Second, Harpur finds in all of this a profound insight into the nature of reality, and what it is to be human»

Is love to know 

 

 

 «Second, Harpur finds in all of this a profound insight into the nature of reality, and what it is to be human.»

I feel disturbed enough as it is. Im ready for being told that that dwarf I made love to in a lake was a prehistoric creature.

 

 

«  With Jung, Harpur argues that these are phenomena of the psyche, but that psyche is of the world, not just of us as individuals.»

Familiar with sheldrake and morphic ressonance? https://www.sheldrake.org/research/morphic-resonance/introduction

 

[Sir Darius the Clairvoyent]

56 minutes ago, Nungali said:

people are travelling through the forest , they come into an area that 'feels' different , it has an 'energy' and they feel charged or  excited or 'prickly' ('goosebumps', hair 'standing on end ' )   a light appears in the sky and descends . It is like a  glassy or watery sphere and a figure can vaguely be sen inside it . The strange feeling rises and then different things seem to happen to the different people witnessing . Later they 'come out of it ' and it seems for some there has been some 'lost' time or a time discrepancy .

You know what… reminds me of basically every fairytale im familiar with.

[Sir Darius the Clairvoyent]

I’ll check the book, but I’d like to know, what do you think this «whatever it is» is?

[Nungali]

2 hours ago, Sir Darius the Clairvoyent said:

You know what… reminds me of basically every fairytale im familiar with.

 

 One of the interesting aspects bought to focus by Harpur is the categorization of themes; nearly all cultures have some variety of the theme ;  'the big black dog , or hound ' ,  'the lake monster'  , 'the lady in the pool or lake'  ' the strange area of forest or wilderness',  ' the 'criptid' ' ,   etc .

[Nungali]

2 hours ago, Sir Darius the Clairvoyent said:

I’ll check the book, but I’d like to know, what do you think this «whatever it is» is?

 

'Daimonic Reality ' .  Although I temper the veracity of reports more than Harpur does ... I see a human dynamic in there effecting reports and dont take a lot of it at face value  -  when investigated the stories sometimes dont match the facts of the reporting of the incident .  That aside , there is certainly something other than that going on .

 

EG ; the child abuse incidents in USA at one stage ;

 

1. A woman reports to police that strangers came to her place ,  claimed to be from child protective services  and a report of abuse had come in . Ae your children here , bring them out we want to see them .  She nearly did but then realised 'What the hell am I  doing ?'  . Who are they ?  I  have not even asked to see ID proof . The she realised she was either 'unthinking' or in some trance . She snapped out of it , demanded proof of ID . They got nervous acted strange and left .

 

2. More report of the same come in . Police are wondering now if its true , is a couple going around doing this ?

 

3. More reports , some at different locations at the same time . is it a gang ?

 

4. Ridiculous  amounts of reports start flooding in  . Impossible , its spreading like a wave  . is this 'copycat reporting ' (like 'copycat crime ) .

 

5.  Then at this stage , as sometimes happen , people start  doing it .  In this case only one person was ever apprehended .  He admitted that he did copy what he read in the media reports , the really wierd part is he could not explain WHY he did that and seemed confused himself about his own behavior .

 

6 . POOF !  Then it all vanishes in a puff of smoke , no more reports , no more incidents , finished .

 

Then the next one starts .

 

Hauntings , UFOs ,  'Men in Black' * ....  all sorts of things can follow this pattern.

 

* first stories , all over the place .  Then people 'pretending ' . Then eventually a movie . peoeple go to the movie dressed up as men in black . Then a movement starts to counter this 'evil'; 'Men in White'. They aadvertise for members on the internet . A cult starts ....

 

Poof !  Gone .  ( but the movies continue ) .

[Nungali]

2 hours ago, Sir Darius the Clairvoyent said:

...

I feel disturbed enough as it is. Im ready for being told that that dwarf I made love to in a lake was a prehistoric creature.

...

 

 

Duuude !  Dont tell me I am going to have to report you to the RSPCA about that  'seal incident '   ! 

 

 

 

[Sir Darius the Clairvoyent]

The man on the moon is an interesting one. Anyone done any research?

[Nungali]

42 minutes ago, Sir Darius the Clairvoyent said:

The man on the moon is an interesting one. Anyone done any research?

 

Eh ?  'The Man  IN the Moon '  ?    The Moon Man ?  or are we talking about the Moon landings ?

 

The first , I cant see . From here I see the Moon Bunny

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_rabbit

 

 

Many  ascribe a female or Goddess energy to the Moon

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chang'e

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lunar_deities

 

The Moon Man  -  an aboriginal story  .... supposedly a kids story ! 

 

" You kids , stop staring at the the Moon , go to sleep .  The Moon man sees you staring at him  he will get angry !   He will come down here and stomp around  ,   HA HA HA !   *    and smash you with his club , kill you !  And if you dont believe me, I will take you to a place where it happened and you can see the smashed bones , all still around on the ground !  So, go to sleep !  "

 

* this part has a bit of added drama to it , it reminds me of the    part in  many stories  like  :   " I will huff , and I will puff and I will  BLOOOOOW   your house down ! "

 

The above seems a very strange story ; perhaps it is from interior ; sleeping under a wide expanse of stars  under a bright Moon , kids might want to 'stay up late '  .  here is a version I put on to the end of it    

 

" ...and smash you with his club , kill you !  And if you dont believe me, I will take you to a place where it happened and you can see the smashed bones , all still around on the ground !  So, go to sleep !   ...   because me and your mother want to have nookie  .  "

[Sir Darius the Clairvoyent]

3 hours ago, Nungali said:

The Man  IN the Moon

Probally. We say mannen PÅ (on) the moon tho. I believe there is a unique Germanic version of this as well, due to the phrase being so common in these languages (as well as how well it flows), all though I am aware it exists elsewhere as well.

 

 

[Sir Darius the Clairvoyent]

3 hours ago, Nungali said:

The above seems a very strange story

I mean, all old stories which we have lost the cultural connection to sound weirds.

[Nungali]

Sure , but what I mean is ..... well, I have a 'lady in the Moon' story that I made up and used to tell to little kids to send them off to sleep ; its calm , relaxing and 'hypnotic'   not terrifying  !