Is porn bad for you?

[Apech]

12 hours ago, Maddie said:

 

Is it? how so?

 

The energy body and physical body are closely interlinked.  Is this not so?

 

I guess there are two questions really, one about porn and one about masturbation itself.  As I am (still) a Buddhist I tend also to think in terms of the lay vow regarding sexual misconduct.  In the Tibetan texts I read which are Gampopa's Jewelled ornament of Liberation and Patrul Rinpoche's Words of my Perfect Teacher - the guidance is oddly unhelpful.  I have always felt this about this precept and suppose it is because mostly these things are written for monks where obviously there's a prohibition on any sex.

 

Gampopa for instance says there are three categories of sexual misconduct - that of 'family', 'owner' and Dharma.  So the things he prohibits are -

 

Incest (family)

Sex with someone 'owned' by another - husband, king etc. 

And five sub categories relating to Dharma, which are:

- with one's wife improper parts of the body, in an improper place, at an improper time, improper behaviour.

 

The first means oral and anal sex (improper parts)

The improper places are near a lama, or monastery, stupa and so on.

Improper times are during a retreat, when pregnant, while nursing a child, when there is light (!)

Improper number is more than five times a night !!!!!

Improper behaviour means masturbating or having intercourse with a male or hermaphrodite in the mouth or anus. !!!

 

This was written in the 11th Century and you can see what their priorities were then - for instance women were 'owned'.  Elsewhere it is said you should not have sex with a prostitute paid for by someone else.  The worst 'sin' was to have sex with your mother who is an arhat.  This brings very bad karma.

 

So note.  Nothing about 'consent' or rape!!!  Nothing about love as distinct to lust.

Gampopa's book is helpful in every other area of dharma practice and so on - but on this subject just a little bizarre.  Nothing about porn - I don't know if it existed as such and many religious icons show yab-yum intercourse (not porn of course).

 

 

 

 

 

[Sir Darius the Clairvoyent]

Rig Veda, tr. by Ralph T.H. Griffith, [1896], at sacred-texts.com

---

 

HYMN CXXIX. Creation.

1. THEN was not non-existent nor existent: there was no realm of air, no sky beyond it.
What covered in, and where? and what gave shelter? Was water there, unfathomed depth of water?
2 Death was not then, nor was there aught immortal: no sign was there, the day's and night's divider.
That One Thing, breathless, breathed by its own nature: apart from it was nothing whatsoever.
3 Darkness there was: at first concealed in darkness this All was indiscriminated chaos.
All that existed then was void and form less: by the great power of Warmth was born that Unit.
4 Thereafter rose Desire in the beginning, Desire, the primal seed and germ of Spirit.
Sages who searched with their heart's thought discovered the existent's kinship in the non-existent.
5 Transversely was their severing line extended: what was above it then, and what below it?
There were begetters, there were mighty forces, free action here and energy up yonder
6 Who verily knows and who can here declare it, whence it was born and whence comes this creation?
The Gods are later than this world's production. Who knows then whence it first came into being?
7 He, the first origin of this creation, whether he formed it all or did not form it,
Whose eye controls this world in highest heaven, he verily knows it, or perhaps he knows not.

 

THE COSMOGONY (Hesiod)

[116] Verily at the first Chaos came to be, but next wide-bosomed Earth, the ever-sure foundations of all4the deathless ones who hold the peaks of snowy Olympus, and dim Tartarus in the depth of the wide-pathed Earth, and Eros (Love), fairest among the deathless gods, who unnerves the limbs and overcomes the mind and wise counsels of all gods and all men within them. From Chaos came forth Erebus and black Night; but of Night were born Aether5 and Day, whom she conceived and bare from union in love with Erebus. And Earth first bare starry Heaven, equal to herself, to cover her on every side, and to be an ever-sure abiding-place for the blessed gods. And she brought forth long Hills, graceful haunts of the goddess-Nymphs who dwell amongst the glens of the hills. She bare also the fruitless deep with his raging swell, Pontus, without sweet union of love.

 

The Greeks seems to me have a very different relationship to sex. Zeus, Afrodite, Dionysus…Ritual sex, Eros.

 

A curiousity shared between the Norse, Roman’s and Greeks (which leads me to believe it is of indo European origin), is that homosexual acts were accepted from an superior to a person of lower status or age. Vikings didn’t just rape women… In fact there is little evidence that they raped them in raids, but kidnapping or enslaving them is not any better. 
 

Just for laughs:

I believe certain acts of sex are very healthy, and that Christianity f’ed our relationship to sex so much that it took an unhealthy form: sex without passion or love, the Catholic Church…

 

Sky father and Mother Earth, man and woman, Jin and yang. Pretty much the same thing, no?

[Sir Darius the Clairvoyent]

In Vedic texts thr sky father (dyeus phter for to proto indo Europeans) Dyava in Hinduism, morphed together with Privthi (earth goddess) into one deity: Dyava-prithvi. If I am not mistaken, there are also texts were the sky fertilizes the earth trough rain (semen).

 

 

Spoiler

You talk about the enormous dimensions of space
your mouth runs wild and your eyes are on fire
you take me into some great, far-reaching visions
Of infinity and black holes and the bygone waters of Mars
But I think of your wonderful eyes
the perfect shape of your beautiful hands
and what they do to me when they meet mine
like a butterfly being released from its dull cocoon
I think of the mystery of you
And wonder of wonders
that you love me
I think of the mystery of you
And wonder of wonders
that you love me
Your eagerness is great when you go on about God and religions
You don't even stop when you take a sip of wine
I get dizzy when you take me into your reflections
It pleases you to see me in my awkwardness
but I think of your lovely shapes
of your breasts that quiver when you're engaged
on the beautiful hands that seek mine
how excited I get when you're deliciously altered
I think of the mystery of you
And wonder of wonders
that you love me
I think of the mystery of you
And wonder of wonders
that you love me
I'm lost in you, but I'm saved all the same
You can have anything you want from me - anytime
I can't control myself
I desire you
I think of the mystery of you
And wonder of wonders
that you love me
I think of the mystery of you
And wonder of wonders
that you love me

 

Edited December 20 by Sir Darius the Clairvoyent

[Maddie]

12 hours ago, ralis said:

 

Assigned at birth? Sex is determined at conception which is a biological fact. 

 

Reducing biological energetics to a few ancient terms misses the point of the real force of nature. It’s beyond the physical and includes the physical. 

 

 

 

Assigned male at birth is more about gender than sex. It is the assumption (usually correct but not always) that one's sex and gender will be aligned. 

Edited December 20 by Maddie

[Maddie]

3 hours ago, Apech said:

 

The energy body and physical body are closely interlinked.  Is this not so?

 

I guess there are two questions really, one about porn and one about masturbation itself.  As I am (still) a Buddhist I tend also to think in terms of the lay vow regarding sexual misconduct.  In the Tibetan texts I read which are Gampopa's Jewelled ornament of Liberation and Patrul Rinpoche's Words of my Perfect Teacher - the guidance is oddly unhelpful.  I have always felt this about this precept and suppose it is because mostly these things are written for monks where obviously there's a prohibition on any sex.

 

 

 

So I guess the real question is more about the mind and desire than the actual visual images themselves. 

[stirling]

Porn in and of itself isn't bad, it is attachment or aversion to it.  "Misusing sex" as it is often put in the Buddhist precepts means that you have used sex in a way that will generate karma for yourself and others. It is manipulation, using power over another, becoming attached to certain stimuli, acts, or situations, etc. Where there is equanimity there is no karma generated. 

[Sir Darius the Clairvoyent]

20 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

Assigned male at birth is more about gender than sex. It is the assumption (usually correct but not always) that one's sex and gender will be aligned. 

Mhm you’re right. For the rare cases of intersex, doctors in Norway prior to the 70s, used to operate the baby in accordance to what they were most like. The idea was that if you raised someone as a girl, they become a girl. This practice ended with a boy callled Victor. They determined he was a girl and raised him at such, but he always felt like a boy. Here is his self protestor:

 

And here is a really heart breaking drawing at age 6:

About the drawing, he said: "this si a boy. The boy is now dead. The penis and the boy got burried in different funerals. Everyone came to the penis. funeral. Nobody came to the boys."
 

From what I’ve heard, he is doing fine now. 

Edited December 20 by Sir Darius the Clairvoyent

[ChiDragon]

On 12/19/2024 at 8:56 PM, Nungali said:

Eh ?   So how did this  come about ?    Guy tells you he needs help to understand the effects of masturbation ..... and you agree to meet him in a park ?  !  ?   ! 

Since he posted here, and we live in the same area. I thought we meet in person to talk is better. I told him not to do it as often and practice Taiji to regain his heath back to normal. I hope that was ok! 😀

Edited December 21 by ChiDragon

[Apech]

23 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

So I guess the real question is more about the mind and desire than the actual visual images themselves. 

 

As Stirling says its about what generates bad karma I guess.  What do you think?

[Sir Darius the Clairvoyent]

2 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

As Stirling says its about what generates bad karma I guess.  What do you think?

Curious about what you and others think about karma: is just sbiut consequences, or is it metaphysical?

[Apech]

Just now, Sir Darius the Clairvoyent said:

Curious about what you and others think about karma: is just sbiut consequences, or is it metaphysical?

karma means action but the word is often used to mean the results of action.  So simplistically harmful acts generate harmful consequences for self and others.  So the question would be is looking at porn harming anyone?

[Sir Darius the Clairvoyent]

13 minutes ago, Apech said:

So the question would be is looking at porn harming anyone?

Here I have the same feeling as towards the environment. Asking people to choose green products (that in reality is often not very green, just green washed) is a cheap marketing technique. It is a drop in the ocean. Instead I think the government should put restrictions on it. 
 

To take one ridiculous example. The grocery store COOP ones decided to start with paper bags instead of plastic. When asked about why, when paper bags are more harmful to the environment, he had no answer. But he knew it was tje case.

Edited December 20 by Sir Darius the Clairvoyent

[ChiDragon]

12 hours ago, Nungali said:

But doesnt one feel 'proud' before one does it ? '  How long one feels proud afterwards , IMO , would be a gauge of how strong the jing was .

One will not feel proud before. If the Jing was strong, then one would feel proud afterward of doing it. However, if one does it too often, the Jing becomes weaken. Since the damage has done to one's heath, to regain one's heath is good to practice any form of qigong. Taji is the best form of qigong. Most people didn't know that deep breathing is the key factor in qigng.

 

Please note that without deep breathing, one may practiced many years of qigong still not gain any heath benefit from it.

Edited December 20 by ChiDragon

[Sir Darius the Clairvoyent]

Why the confusion @Apech, I am happy to clarify or discuss it with you.

[Maddie]

26 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

As Stirling says its about what generates bad karma I guess.  What do you think?

 

I don't know if I would use the word bad karma. I think acting on desire creates the karma of desire. 

[Apech]

15 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

I don't know if I would use the word bad karma. I think acting on desire creates the karma of desire. 

Yes bad karma is an inexact and dubious expression but I think you know what I mean.

[Apech]

23 minutes ago, Sir Darius the Clairvoyent said:

Why the confusion @Apech, I am happy to clarify or discuss it with you.

In what way are paper bags which rot down naturally more harmful than plastic?

[ChiDragon]

16 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

I don't know if I would use the word bad karma. I think acting on desire creates the karma of desire. 

I agree! Karma by itself shouldn't be differentiated it is good or bad. IMO It is the effect that determines it is good or bad.

[Sir Darius the Clairvoyent]

3 minutes ago, Apech said:

In what way are paper bags which rot down naturally more harmful than plastic?

Forgive me for useing a translated Norwegian article, but if you are curious about it legitimacy, NRK is equivalent to BBC. 
https://www-nrk-no.translate.goog/livsstil/er-papirposen-bedre-for-miljoet-enn-plastposen_-1.14242724?_x_tr_sl=no&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=no&_x_tr_pto=wapp
 

It is more nuanced than I presented it. It depends on what degree the plastic is recycled, and that varries enormously. 

But the real tradegy here, is that hemp is pretty much universally banned.

 

[Maddie]

19 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

I agree! Karma by itself shouldn't be differentiated it is good or bad. IMO It is the effect that determines it is good or bad.

 

There actually are some cases where I will use the term "bad karma" but these are where someone else is actively being harmed with ill intent. 

[ChiDragon]

10 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

There actually are some cases where I will use the term "bad karma" but these are where someone else is actively being harmed with ill intent. 

Karma can also be used to describe a fate or destiny, or the good or bad emanations that someone or something generates. For example, someone might say "This place has bad karma".

[Maddie]

3 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

Karma can also be used to describe a fate or destiny, or the good or bad emanations that someone or something generates. For example, someone might say "This place has bad karma".

 

Yes karma is both cause and effect. One makes karma with ones actions, and the karma made in turn conditions future actions. 

[Apech]

2 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

Yes karma is both cause and effect. One makes karma with ones actions, and the karma made in turn conditions future actions. 

Not just actions but intentions also.

 

 

[Maddie]

2 minutes ago, Apech said:

Not just actions but intentions also.

 

 

 

Yes. Technically it would only be intentions, because if while you are asleep if you roll over and squash a lady bug that is an action but there is no ill intent at all, even thought its technically an action,  so therefore no karma. 

Edited December 20 by Maddie

[Apech]

1 minute ago, Maddie said:

 

Yes. Technically it would only be intentions, because if while you are asleep if you roll over and squash a lady bug that is an action but there is no ill intent at all, even thought its technically an action,  so therefore no karma. 

Happens a lot to me - maybe I should stop sleeping with insects.