Transcendence vs Integration

[forestofclarity]

From the Mahamudra Aspiration Prayer, trans McLeod:

 

It doesn’t exist: even buddhas do not see it.

It doesn’t not exist: it is the basis of samsara and nirvana.

No contradiction: the middle way is union.

May I know the pure being of mind, free of extremes.

 

[old3bob]

Ok, I'll trade some quotes:

 

Chap 21, T.T.C.

IT lies in the nature of Grand Virtue
To follow the Tao and the Tao alone.
Now what is the Tao?
It is Something elusive and evasive.
Evasive and elusive!
And yet It contains within Itself a Form.
Elusive and evasive!
And yet It contains within Itself a Substance.
Shadowy and dim!
And yet It contains within Itself a Core of Vitality.
The Core of Vitality is very real,
It contains within Itself an unfailing Sincerity.
Throughout the ages Its Name has been preserved
In order to recall the Beginning of all things.
How do I know the ways of all things at the Beginning?
By what is within me.

 

 

[Lairg]

On 12/26/2024 at 12:56 PM, Bindi said:

• • The end goal is to transcend the self, including thoughts, emotions, and personal identity, in order to merge with the absolute, the divine, or universal consciousness. .....
• Transcendence of Emotional and Mental Layers:
  • Once one achieves the awakening or realization of nonduality, the emotional and mental layers are no longer part of the self in the traditional sense.

 

Most of the humans I know like doing things.      That is somewhat at odds with what the priests taught me about going to heaven to adore god forever - assuming that god wants to be adored.

 

It seems to me merging with the Absolute does not preclude continuing to use a vehicle of incarnation in a useful soul-bearing species.

 

Thus the intelligence is both immersed in The Oneness of All, while working in the outer layers of Reality to assist those that are a bit lost/limited.

 

Transcendence is natural, but useful work within Existence requires simultaneous manifestation of a light body on the relevant level/plane of the target action/relationship.

 

Thus in my experience transcendence does not exclude integration.  There is however an ability to look past the manipulations of humans just as a parent can look past the tantrums of a 2 year old

 

 

 

 

[Bindi]

9 hours ago, old3bob said:

Ok, I'll trade some quotes:

 

Chap 21, T.T.C.

IT lies in the nature of Grand Virtue
To follow the Tao and the Tao alone.
Now what is the Tao?
It is Something elusive and evasive.
Evasive and elusive!
And yet It contains within Itself a Form.
Elusive and evasive!
And yet It contains within Itself a Substance.
Shadowy and dim!
And yet It contains within Itself a Core of Vitality.
The Core of Vitality is very real,
It contains within Itself an unfailing Sincerity.
Throughout the ages Its Name has been preserved
In order to recall the Beginning of all things.
How do I know the ways of all things at the Beginning?
By what is within me.

 

 

This makes me think that by coming to the causal body within me, and perceiving and coming to identify with the original spirit or soul that exists within this level, this is the inner way that leads to alignment with the Dao. 

 

Edited January 30 by Bindi

[old3bob]

6 hours ago, Bindi said:

This makes me think that by coming to the causal body within me, and perceiving and coming to identify with the original spirit or soul that exists within this level, this is the inner way that leads to alignment with the Dao. 

 

 

"...Continually the Unnameable moves on,

Until it returns beyond the realm of things..."  from Chap14

 

I'd say that at the same time it never really left (for how could it do so and still Be?!) although it was in a great dream of leaving.

[Bindi]

14 hours ago, old3bob said:

 

"...Continually the Unnameable moves on,

Until it returns beyond the realm of things..."  from Chap14

 

I'd say that at the same time it never really left (for how could it do so and still Be?!) although it was in a great dream of leaving.

Do you mean that the original spirit or soul never left? If so, I agree, of course. But I’m coming to the conclusion that it’s the soul, not our mundane thoughts and emotions, that is responsible for creating karma through the poor decisions it makes.

I actually think things are opposite to how they’re generally considered. I’m beginning to see thoughts and emotions as expressions of the soul, a kind of Morse code from the soul, trying to get our attention. Instead of viewing thoughts and emotions as veils that obscure the pure truth of an unconditioned soul, I suspect they arise because the soul is bound by karma and is attempting to communicate its condition. The soul never left, but it fell out of alignment with the Dao, and it struggles to return to alignment, gaining wisdom in this process, especially the wisdom to not fall into the same trap again. 

 

 

[old3bob]

27 minutes ago, Bindi said:

 

Do you mean that the original spirit or soul never left? If so, I agree, of course. But I’m coming to the conclusion that it’s the soul, not our mundane thoughts and emotions, that is responsible for creating karma through the poor decisions it makes.

I actually think things are opposite to how they’re generally considered. I’m beginning to see thoughts and emotions as expressions of the soul, a kind of Morse code from the soul, trying to get our attention. Instead of viewing thoughts and emotions as veils that obscure the pure truth of an unconditioned soul, I suspect they arise because the soul is bound by karma and is attempting to communicate its condition. The soul never left, but it fell out of alignment with the Dao, and it struggles to return to alignment, gaining wisdom in this process, especially the wisdom to not fall into the same trap again. 

 

 

I believe that the "unnameable" in that shortened quote points to the Great Tao, (thus the great Tao never really left the Great Tao even though chap. 14 says "moves on", whereas our unique, particular and evolving souls are nameable.  I'd say yes on the ideas of our soul choosing or having to deal with karmas over the whole gamut of situations.