Taoist Elixir Method (Tao Tan Pai) Kung Fu and Neigong discussion

[daobro]

I am starting this discussion thread with Sifu Terry Dunn's approval -- here to discuss Tao Tan Pai Kung Fu and Neigong.

 

I've been practicing Tao Tan Pai since April of this year (8 months now). Have had many benefits already:

- more energy -- especially when I'm feeling dull or tired, TTP has been a great waker upper

- mental clarity

- relaxation

- catalyzing my practice of Flying Phoenix

 

I recently asked the I Ching about Tao Tan Pai, and the hexagram I got was 34 (Great Power) changing Line 5 to 43 (Breakthrough).

 

Judgment:

Quote

THE POWER OF THE GREAT. Perseverance furthers.

 

Image:

Quote

Thunder in heaven above:

The image of THE POWER OF THE GREAT.

Thus the superior man does not treat upon paths

That do not accord with established order.

 

Changing line 5:

Quote

Loses the goat with ease.
No remorse.

 

Curious what it could mean 🤔

 

Anyways, I'm excited to get this discussion going!

Edited December 30, 2024 by daobro

[MBZ]

Where did you learn it and what’s the minimum daily time requirement? 🙏🏻

[daobro]

I learned from Sifu Terry (@zenbear on this forum), both through in-person workshops and on Zoom. 
 

Takes me at least 30 min a day I’d say (kung fu forms plus basic neigong). But that’s the bare minimum and I usually do longer. 

[MBZ]

I thought it took something like 90 min a day minimum? Was that an online class or did you attend a live event? 🙏🏻

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

I do the cane form daily, and the power yoga every weekend 

[johndoe2012]

Buy here 

 

https://billhelmtuinaqigong.square.site/product/qi-gong-31-exercises/28?cp=true&sa=false&sbp=false&q=false&category_id=2

[EFreethought]

I have a couple of questions:

1. How much physical space is needed for Tao Tan Pai Kung Fu?

2. Can Tao Tan Pai Kung Fu be done by itself, or is learning/knowing Flying Phoenix a requirement?

 

[DanC]

Just came across this thread, curious if there will be any DVD's by Terry on Tan Tao Pai... I'm sure I read in an older thread there would be a book at some point...

 

Thanks 

[daobro]

I just realize that one potential interpretation of the I Ching reading was staring me in the face the whole time. Richard Wilhelm's translation of the I Ching says for the changing line:

 

Quote

Loses the goat with ease.
No remorse.

 

The goat is noted for hardness outwardly and weakness within. Now the situation is such that everything is easy; there is no more resistance. One can give up a belligerent, stubborn way of acting and will not have to regret it.

 

I think this conveys the importance of softness and breaking up one's external tensions in Tao Tan Pai practice.

[daobro]

On 1/1/2025 at 4:14 AM, MBZ said:

I thought it took something like 90 min a day minimum? Was that an online class or did you attend a live event? 🙏🏻

 

I went to the in person workshops taught by Sifu Terry. They were Zoomable though.

 

I can't speak too much to the time requirement since I'm just a beginner, but if I'm super squeezed for time, I still get some effect from cutting my practice short (e.g. just do 1-2 rounds of Cane Form and a couple exercises from Short Form Power Yoga). Not sure if doing just that every day will lead to long term progress though.

Edited Monday at 03:33 AM by daobro

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

Here is some info about Tao Tan Pai from one of Sifu Terry’s newsletters:

 

“In retrospect, the August 1995 sighting was one hell of a startling exercise of my “Shen Gong” that made me eternally grateful for have learned “Nine Flowers” Qigong and the other advanced Tao Tan Pai Yogas I had learned in the 1970’s. It reminded me of what “seeing” is—in the true Taoist sense of the word, which is identical to the Castanedan sense of the word) and from that moment onward has forever motivated me to continue my practice of Tao Tan Pai Nei Kung, Ehrmei Mountain Bok Fu Pai internal arts, and Tai Chi Chuan—and reinforced my intent to preserve them by teaching. Because again, the bottom line benefit of the Chinese martial, yogic, spiritual arts is discernment. Discernment  at whatever level one is able to “see”—with the wisdom and experiential understanding that every principle of Taoism holds true at every level of human perception—from the admantine mundane and pedestrian to the Cosmic Ever-Conscious and Void-that-forms.

I must attribute my clear and accurate “seeing” of Franklin in that moment to my practice since 1975 of the Tao Tan Pai (“Taoist Elixir Method”) Nei Gong system (consisting of six levels of esoteric Taoist Yoga that are practiced parallel to the Tao Tao Pai Kung Fu system.) the Tao Tan Pai Kung Fu system has five basic and five advanced animal kung fu forms: Tiger, Dragon, Snake, Crane, and Monkey. (Tao Tan Pai naturalism differs from the Buddhist Shaolin Temple’s style of Five Animals Kung Fu5, for the latter has Leopard Kung Fu forms instead of Monkey acting.)

The Tai Tan Pai Neigong system consists of these six levels of esoteric Yoga:

1. Tao Tan Pai Basic 31 Meditations (15 standing; 16 seated)

2. Five Basic Animal Kung Fu forms

3. Eleven Shen Exercises

4. The Six Stars

5. The Nine Petals of the Lotus Flower (aka, “The Nine Flowers”)

6. The Five Dragons

Mastering Level #2, the basic Five Animal Kung Fu forms of Tao Tan Pai, requires 5 to 6 years. Standard form practice, according to Grandmaster Share K. Lew (who brought this art from the Ancient Temple of the Yellow Dragon in Guangdong to America in 1948) is do each of the Five Animal Kung Fu forms (Tiger, Dragon, Snake, Crane, and Monkey) four times each in one training session. That’s a total of 20 forms practiced in each session. That is how you play the Kung Fu—along with realistic full-contact fighting, of course. The two most advanced Yogas in the Tao Tan Pai system, the “Nine Flowers” and the “Five Dragons” can be extremely dangerous—and even deadly— to the practitioner if not done correctly: 

(a) The Nine Flowers Qigong involves repeated massaging of specific acupuncture meridians and organs using the index finger, middle finger, and ring finger of each hand—as one holds each hand in the Boy Scouts salute (thumb touching the nail of the pinky finger). If one does this Qigong during the hours of 5pm to 7pm Standard Time anywhere in the world, ONE WILL DIE. Period. Simple as that.  You die.  Yes, that is how serious and authentic this Taoist Yoga created Taoist Immortal (saint) Lu Tung Pin is. (Another Qigong tradition that I preserve, Ehrmei Mountain Flying Phoenix Qigong, is far more forgiving and almost foolproof so that the average person and absolute beginner can safely and easily derive salient health benefits.) But the yogic and spiritual benefits of the Nine Flowers are more than worth the minimal risk of dying (for one would have to be insanely stupid or suicidal to practice it during the “death zone”). If practiced properly, the Nine Flowers Yoga enables one to see all the planes of reality intersecting at every now-moment with the consensus reality (that different sectors of humankind agree to uphold in different parts of the world for long periods of time). 

 

When Grandmaster Share K. Lew first taught the Nine Flowers to us, he said, “This is good for your eyes.” After we had practiced this Yoga for about 4 months, Master Lew said, “Now practice The Nine Flowers with your eyes open in front of a mirror.”  The very first time that I practiced 9 Flowers in front of a mirror, when I got to the second exercise, my vision of myself in the full-length mirror suddenly turned gray-and-black and looked exactly like an old black & white film negative. I was stunned, to say the least! What I saw as more pronounced and outstanding were the spaces between and surrounding the darker facial outlining features and that one normally notices or focuses upon (e.g. the outline of the eyes, the shape of the eyebrows, angles of the cheekbone, the nostrils and tip of the nose, etc.) Then after this shift of vision to B&W film negative mode, I saw my face change in the mirror with every breathe that I took. And based on my practice of our eleven Tao Tan Pai “Shen” Exercises, and slowly and gradually experience their benefit in “seeing”, I intuitively decided to try to fix and hold my “seeing” of one of my past lives (or phantoms) for longer than one breath. And once I had learned to fix and hold a past life image through breath modulation and using Shen (which didn’t happen right away, btw), I was able to commune with it—as if “it” was not always actually a part of “me.” That’s one means of becoming truly more “self-aware” that’s facilitated by the Tao Tan Pai Nei Gong. And to the extent that one is able to “see” oneself that way and one is able to “fix” that kind absorption at will, one is enabled to see ALL human beings and life forms in that mode. With more years of practicing the Tao Tan Pai advanced Yogas, one no longer has to strain in any way to “see.” One’s natural vision simply slips in and out of that deeper “seeing” B&W film negative mode as one needs to. And I happen to believe that it’s that mode of “seeing”—which can be yogically developed or can come naturally— that I believe enabled my favorite Catholic theologian to poetically propound:

 

"And now a strange thing in the street seems every human nod, where walk in strange democracy the million masks of God."  – G.K. Chesterton

 

After about 2 months of practicing the Nine Flowers regularly (about every other day), the moment that I stood in front of the mirror and did the very first few breathes of the first exercise, I saw my image in the mirror gently dissolve and in about a half second. The dis-appearance wasn’t instant. The feeling of total brain activation that accompanies the lovely fading away / disappearance of one’s image in the mirror is a benchmark state of expanded consciousness where one feels a complete re-alignment of one’s total being with the flow or the “Big Bang” of the Universe—and on a cellular level. It is a mentally expansive, emotionally calm-and-clear, and physically blissful-sublime healing experience of At-Onement with the Universe. You feel that you are one with the Whole Works that the nineteenth century seafarer and psychiatrist called “Cosmic Consciousness”. And at the risk of inciting fundamentalists to do drive-by’s at where they think I might live: I will dare to say that the state of satori facilitated by the Tan Tao Pai Yogas and many other Chinese and Asian Yogas seems to be perfectly described in the New Testament in the Book of John when Christ Jesus expressed his spiritual consciousness and his standing with the Creator (the “Father)” when the Jews were grilling him about his teachings: 
“Before Abraham was, I am.” (John 8: 58) “I and the Father are One.” (John 10:30) “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, Ye are gods’?”6 (82nd Psalm)

(b) The success rate of the Five Dragons Qigong is only 33%. Our long history at the Taoist Sanctuary of Los Angeles and San Diego has shown that one third of practitioners get deathly ill;  one third has full-blown, clinically diagnosed psychotic breaks from doing the Five Dragons; and one third of practitioners gets good results, trebling one’s energy level at the very least (when one learns this Yoga in their 20’s or 30’s), and in a manner that fulfills all five functional criteria for authentic Qigong:

1. Strengthens immunity so as to prevent disease.

2. Cultivates internal energy (Qi) to be able to heal (some) diseases in oneself and others.

3. Greatly strengthens the body in an integrative manner.

4. Improves intelligence (measurably) and thereby increases longevity.

5. Develops and manifests latent powers (e.g., clairvoyance, clairaudience, telekinesis, skyring, distance healing, “Hitting the cow on the other side of the mountain”, et.c)

[These five benefits of authentic monastic Qigong were first expounded in the West by the great Master Tzu Kuo Shih in his excellent, must-read book, “QIGONG THERAPY: The Chinese Art of Healing with Energy (Station Hill Press). ]

 

A sixth sign of success in the Five Dragons Qigong is cultivating one’s intrinsic Qi to a level where one can physically heal someone at a distance and also harm someone at a distance. Towards the later skill, Tao Tan Pai adepts begin by practicing “candle punching”— i.e., putting out a candle flame at a distance using a punch using fist, open palm, “back-hand,” two fingers (“snake” strike), one index finger, an elbow, or any martial hand techniques—starting at a distance of 1 foot away and increasing to 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 feet and farther. At the highest level of Tao Tan Pai Kung fu (and all complete internal systems of Kung Fu for that matter), one demonstrates “activity within inactivity”—that is, the outer environment is “activated”/affected by one’s Shen-Chi giving form to one’s Ching-Chi (“Qing-qi” in pinyin) and changing the Form of the Void or “Voiding the Form” without needing to move one’s physical body. This is the province of the true masters.

 

Due to the Five Dragons’ high percentage yield of failure, we (that is, my senior Tao Tan Pai brethren and I) are extremely careful and cognizant in deciding to whom we teach the advanced Yogas—the The 6 Stars, the 9 Flowers and 5 Dragons. Because I tend to be orthodox, to qualify to learn these advanced Yogas, students must first have mastered the Five (basic) Tao Tan Pai animal Kung Fu forms and at least two of the TTP weapons forms. Because Tao Tan Pai Nei Kung is so very, very much “shen-driven” and also directly circulates the generative force(what Indian yoga calls the Kundalini energy), even the first level of practice, the Tao Tan Pai 31 Basic Meditations series, can cause energy sickness if one’s Shen-chi (psychic focus through the eyes) is somehow distracted, scattered or improperly focussed.

 

That is the powerful nature of the Taoist Elixir Method Qigong and Kung Fu that was channeled from Heaven and taught on earth by Lu Tung Pin during the Tang Dynasty (618-907 CE), and handed down to this day across 25 generations via a semi-secret martial art fraternity related to the Quanzhen (Complete Reality) sect of Taoism.”

 

You can read the whole article here: https://terencedunn.substack.com/p/seeing-the-grim-sleeper-in-my-very?r=5i7g9&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&triedRedirect=true

 

 

 

[EFreethought]

On 1/6/2025 at 12:23 PM, -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- said:

Here is some info about Tao Tan Pai from one of Sifu Terry’s newsletters:

 

(b) The success rate of the Five Dragons Qigong is only 33%. Our long history at the Taoist Sanctuary of Los Angeles and San Diego has shown that one third of practitioners get deathly ill;  one third has full-blown, clinically diagnosed psychotic breaks from doing the Five Dragons; and one third of practitioners gets good results, trebling one’s energy level at the very least (when one learns this Yoga in their 20’s or 30’s), and in a manner that fulfills all five functional criteria for authentic Qigong:

 

 

So if someone is past their 30s, is Five Dragons off limits?