The next major advancement in Christianity 2

[Sanity Check]

 

In the bible, Moses ascends Mount Sinai for 40 days.

 

Within a span of 40 days the israelites transition from a God fearing society to a cult of cow worshippers.

 

This illustration of society falling apart without the guidance and leadership of a single person highlight the hierarchical arrangement of christianity being sup optimal.

 

In historical terms, when people think of progress or advancement they envision a single individual blazing a trail.

 

They think of a single person revolutionizing science, religion, art or another institution in a way which dramatically changes the way people think about things and how they live their lives.

 

The elites of history are always reading and learning. Working hard to gain knowledge. Moving towards achieving peak productivity. Their potential for growth and advancement are usually maximized.

 

If history is defined by elites maximizing their potential, with the potential of the poor being wholly untapped as a static constant.

 

If the poor someday unlock their potential.

 

If poor israelites of past eras achieved this feat.

 

Would they have been able to resist their transition to cow worship in the 40 days Moses spent on Mt. Sinai?

 

While christians tend to emulate the centralized hierarchy of Moses and prophets of past eras.

 

It might be said there are advantages to many striving towards maximizing their learning potential, rather than a select few.

 

In terms of civilization and society, the greatest progress that could possibly be made would be by the poor maximizing their learning. As that is where the largest potential gains can possibly be made.

 

[Nungali]

Unfortunately  the original premise is flawed .  To excuse my pedantry   you did mention history .

 

 

18 hours ago, Sanity Check said:

 

In the bible, Moses ascends Mount Sinai for 40 days.

 

Within a span of 40 days the israelites transition from a God fearing society to a cult of cow worshippers.

 

None of this is attested by history , its a religious fairy tale , perhaps based on the  removal of Hyksos from Egypt into Canaan. But even if we ignore historical evidence and go on the Bible alone ,  they didnt 'transition', they where already 'cow worshipers'  that was part of the culture they bought with them from Egypt .   Here is a another question ; refugees , fleeing the might of Egypt,  camped out in the desert  ( which was actually Egyptian territory 'back then '    was  part of Egyptian Empire  ..... right through that part of the Bible story   -  what , Egypt never noticed a huge Israelite Empire  and Israel never noticed they where under Egyptian dominion  ? 

 

 where did they get all that gold to build a giant  golden calf out of ?  )

 

This illustration of society falling apart without the guidance and leadership of a single person highlight the hierarchical arrangement of christianity being sup optimal.

 

In historical terms, when people think of progress or advancement they envision a single individual blazing a trail.

 

They think of a single person revolutionizing science, religion, art or another institution in a way which dramatically changes the way people think about things and how they live their lives.

 

The elites of history are always reading and learning. Working hard to gain knowledge. Moving towards achieving peak productivity. Their potential for growth and advancement are usually maximized.

 

If history is defined by elites maximizing their potential, with the potential of the poor being wholly untapped as a static constant.

 

If the poor someday unlock their potential.

 

If poor israelites of past eras achieved this feat.

 

They didnt , its a made up story .  In any case I am confused by what you wrote ; if the Israelites  achieved this on their own without a leader  ... why did they make the  cow to worship ?  If they where wrong in that and then repented and followed Moses instruction then dow not that support the premise of the individual  leader ?  or are you saying the Isrealites  where right in making the cow ,... or  what ?    - I am confused because of the way you set this out .

 

Would they have been able to resist their transition to cow worship in the 40 days Moses spent on Mt. Sinai?

 

It wasnt a transition , it was a 'reversion' .  if it was not a reversion ... where did they get it from ?   What ;  they thought Moses might not return so   worship a  ......... cow ? ...... instead  ,   at random ?

 

 

18 hours ago, Sanity Check said:

While christians tend to emulate the centralized hierarchy of Moses and prophets of past eras.

 

It might be said there are advantages to many striving towards maximizing their learning potential, rather than a select few.

 

But thats the way things seem to go ; great advances are not the mass of people becoming enlightened or finding a new way , it nearly always is , with crucial issues, the spark of individual genius that kindles the flame , then it might spread and take over . We even have evidence of that in ancient societies ,  eg .  the reformation of Indigenous society in Australia after the end of the ice age was bought about by a  ' visionary artist; creating a 'cultural object' that he used to demonstrate his idea to a meeting of leaders called together from across the land .  There are many many examples . What are the examples of the opposite ?

 

In terms of civilization and society, the greatest progress that could possibly be made would be by the poor maximizing their learning. As that is where the largest potential gains can possibly be made.

 

Unfortunately  'the poor'   and 'learning' do not go hand in hand  into the future .

 

 

[Sanity Check]

 

Quote

 

They didnt , its a made up story .  In any case I am confused by what you wrote ; if the Israelites  achieved this on their own without a leader  ... why did they make the  cow to worship ?  If they where wrong in that and then repented and followed Moses instruction then dow not that support the premise of the individual  leader ?  or are you saying the Isrealites  where right in making the cow ,... or  what ?    - I am confused because of the way you set this out .

 

 

Imagine there is a hospital with grid supplied electricity. The power goes out during a storm. Patients on life support are in a bad way. This represents a catastrophic single point of failure. 

 

The story of Moses ascending Mt Sinai is the same. Everything falls apart in 40 days in Moses' absence. Single point of failure.

 

If hospitals can be equipped with back up generators to reduce single point of failure.

 

Would christianity and religion naturally adapt to do something similar?

 

Long story short, single point of failure based structures could be defined as sub optimal.

 

Many christians might look at the story of Moses as the de facto standard for the proper hierarchy christians should emulate. 

 

But in reality, something better than a single point of failure based leadership structure might eventually come along. And if it did what might that look like?

 

 

 

Quote

But thats the way things seem to go ; great advances are not the mass of people becoming enlightened or finding a new way , it nearly always is , with crucial issues, the spark of individual genius that kindles the flame , then it might spread and take over . We even have evidence of that in ancient societies ,  eg .  the reformation of Indigenous society in Australia after the end of the ice age was bought about by a  ' visionary artist; creating a 'cultural object' that he used to demonstrate his idea to a meeting of leaders called together from across the land .  There are many many examples . What are the examples of the opposite ?

 

 

There are many stories of folks like Benjamin Franklin who arrive in america with a handful of cash in their pockets. Who are able to attain feats, respect and wealth through their efforts.

 

In terms of history, these are usually isolated events. A few scattered individuals here and there. 

 

But considering how unfulfilled the potential of the poor typically are. The biggest overall gains society can make revolves around them due to having by far the highest growth potential.

 

 

Quote

Unfortunately  'the poor'   and 'learning' do not go hand in hand  into the future .

 

 

 

Well, even the poor of today have big screen TVs.

 

Which the richest person in the world who lived 100 years ago could not afford.

 

The poor of today have material and standard of living based things superior to the wealthy of the past.

 

Which could lead to them being more like a privileged class.

Edited Sunday at 05:17 AM by Sanity Check

[NorthWide]

 

The nice thing about the bible is that its not only Revelation that covers future prophecies.

Here as you can see in Chapter 7 of Daniel it outlines in verse 18 and 22 that the Kingdom will be given to the saints.

Verse 22 says that judgement was passed in favor of the saints.

Revelation 11:15 says the kingdoms of the world have become the kingdoms of our lord.

The Hebrew merely says that "The court will sit in Judgement". Perhaps the meaning is that at some point Christians get fed up with crap...

 

How this ties in with the hierarchy/education thing:

1. Those who are saved are coheirs with Christ. (Negates a hierarchy)

2. studying the first few chapters of Revelation we understand that Jesus directs the churches, not a hierarchy. More, there are angels appointed to each church to minister to it.

3. Sermon on the Mount: Expounded upon the concepts of humility.

4. Concept of the Servant Leader (mentioned in a separate post)

5. God generally gives Knowledge to those who have understanding.

 

So, some of these things may seem off-topic, when in reality a whole picture helps us see beyond a nuts and bolts perspective into a clear picture of when people of God realize they actually have a lot more power than what they think.

Humility... Yeah it is coming. Some understand it.

Knowledge, God gives to those who ask.

 

The deal is: is that at some point in the future, Christians realize it (all Two Witness groups[two groups of people]). At that point people will complain about Christians. But the deal also is that only God can change times and law. Therefore the Antichrist is a practicing Christian. That's the scary part. Its the war within.

 

There will always be those with false doctrines and we still see it today.

 

Getting people to renounce themselves and tread the path of humility is only something Jesus can do. If you've reached this point and rely upon the bible... then you can use the key of the nations, yes it does exist. But you need three to pray this for knowledge and humility to be imparted like grace to Moses.

 

It has to do with the scripture, By the words of 3 witnesses a thing may be established.

 

Now you're probably wondering why don't we just declare the Kingdom now? Why not? It is totally in the realm of possibility at this point. There needs to be enough Christians to find some of these anointings of plagues and miracles in the Bible and start to use them. This is just going on what we know from scripture.

 

I would say take it before Jesus in the throne room of 3rd heaven.

 

 

[Sanity Check]

2 hours ago, NorthWide said:

 

The nice thing about the bible is that its not only Revelation that covers future prophecies.

Here as you can see in Chapter 7 of Daniel it outlines in verse 18 and 22 that the Kingdom will be given to the saints.

Verse 22 says that judgement was passed in favor of the saints.

Revelation 11:15 says the kingdoms of the world have become the kingdoms of our lord.

The Hebrew merely says that "The court will sit in Judgement". Perhaps the meaning is that at some point Christians get fed up with crap...

 

How this ties in with the hierarchy/education thing:

1. Those who are saved are coheirs with Christ. (Negates a hierarchy)

2. studying the first few chapters of Revelation we understand that Jesus directs the churches, not a hierarchy. More, there are angels appointed to each church to minister to it.

3. Sermon on the Mount: Expounded upon the concepts of humility.

4. Concept of the Servant Leader (mentioned in a separate post)

5. God generally gives Knowledge to those who have understanding.

 

So, some of these things may seem off-topic, when in reality a whole picture helps us see beyond a nuts and bolts perspective into a clear picture of when people of God realize they actually have a lot more power than what they think.

Humility... Yeah it is coming. Some understand it.

Knowledge, God gives to those who ask.

 

The deal is: is that at some point in the future, Christians realize it (all Two Witness groups[two groups of people]). At that point people will complain about Christians. But the deal also is that only God can change times and law. Therefore the Antichrist is a practicing Christian. That's the scary part. Its the war within.

 

There will always be those with false doctrines and we still see it today.

 

Getting people to renounce themselves and tread the path of humility is only something Jesus can do. If you've reached this point and rely upon the bible... then you can use the key of the nations, yes it does exist. But you need three to pray this for knowledge and humility to be imparted like grace to Moses.

 

It has to do with the scripture, By the words of 3 witnesses a thing may be established.

 

Now you're probably wondering why don't we just declare the Kingdom now? Why not? It is totally in the realm of possibility at this point. There needs to be enough Christians to find some of these anointings of plagues and miracles in the Bible and start to use them. This is just going on what we know from scripture.

 

I would say take it before Jesus in the throne room of 3rd heaven.

 

 

 

 

Think on Jesus saying the kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed. 

 

Early kingdom of heaven is Moses and the old testament. Newer kingdom of heaven is NT.

 

Revelation says there will be a group of 144,000 who will stand anointed. 

 

How did they get 144,000?  12 tribes of israel multiplied by 12 Apostles = 144. Then three zeros were tacked onto the end of it somehow.

 

This could define a timeline where in the early days of the kingdom of heaven there were single prophets. 

 

Then perhaps over time the number of prophets and leaders multiplies until we reach Revelation where there are 144,000 prophets / saints.

 

There are many different variables and angles to biblical prophecy & I won't pretend to have tried covering them all.

 

Over time we see christianity as a religion shifting and changing. Growing & advancing. And so we might guess if the kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed. The end product won't necessarily bear a strong resemblance to the early sprouting days.

 

 

[Apech]

Christianity is so weird.

[NorthWide]

6 hours ago, Sanity Check said:

 

 

Think on Jesus saying the kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed. 

 

Early kingdom of heaven is Moses and the old testament. Newer kingdom of heaven is NT.

 

Revelation says there will be a group of 144,000 who will stand anointed. 

 

How did they get 144,000?  12 tribes of israel multiplied by 12 Apostles = 144. Then three zeros were tacked onto the end of it somehow.

 

This could define a timeline where in the early days of the kingdom of heaven there were single prophets. 

 

Then perhaps over time the number of prophets and leaders multiplies until we reach Revelation where there are 144,000 prophets / saints.

 

There are many different variables and angles to biblical prophecy & I won't pretend to have tried covering them all.

 

Over time we see christianity as a religion shifting and changing. Growing & advancing. And so we might guess if the kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed. The end product won't necessarily bear a strong resemblance to the early sprouting days.

 

 

 

Micah 5 , Jude 9-10

 

Remnant, Myriad is kind of like saying maximum number in metaphors.

Some say 10000, others describe a large unspecified number...

 

That is correct. It won't be the same as first century. Neither will it be a cult where you have to study magazines, on an online app.

 

Generally I've found you need to read at least more than 5 pages of the bible a day for noticeable change. It has to come from the bible.

 

[unexpected twist]

 

Run the bible as a program using AI and see what happens. I honestly don't know but Micah 3, constant plowing and threshing might yield a more consistent product.

[Sanity Check]

12 hours ago, Apech said:

Christianity is so weird.

 

 

If more people read the bible.

 

They would be shocked and surprised by what is in it.

 

Greatest plot twists and revelations of all time.

[Nungali]

20 hours ago, Sanity Check said:

 

 

 

Imagine there is a hospital with grid supplied electricity. The power goes out during a storm. Patients on life support are in a bad way. This represents a catastrophic single point of failure. 

 

The story of Moses ascending Mt Sinai is the same. Everything falls apart in 40 days in Moses' absence. Single point of failure.

 

That assumes they where previously Monotheists before they got  the 'Law'   (note clause 1  of the 'Law' )

 

If hospitals can be equipped with back up generators to reduce single point of failure.

 

Ah, now I get you .... if I think to engineering !

 

Would christianity and religion naturally adapt to do something similar?

 

A vice-Pope  ?     

 

Long story short, single point of failure based structures could be defined as sub optimal.

 

Got that  (now ) .

 

Many Christians might look at the story of Moses as the de facto standard for the proper hierarchy Christians should emulate. 

 

I would think that would be Jesus  not Moses , and he may have thought of that ; " They will catch up with me soon , so I will send 12 guys out .... "

 

But in reality, something better than a single point of failure based leadership structure might eventually come along. And if it did what might that look like?

 

That's already been accomplished  ;  the Baha'i model for 'clergy' ; an elected body of  9 .

 

There are many stories of folks like Benjamin Franklin who arrive in america with a handful of cash in their pockets. Who are able to attain feats, respect and wealth through their efforts.

 

In terms of history, these are usually isolated events. A few scattered individuals here and there. 

 

But considering how unfulfilled the potential of the poor typically are. The biggest overall gains society can make revolves around them due to having by far the highest growth potential.

 

Not historically though  ... look at things like the 'People's Crusade ' ..... yikes !

" The response was beyond expectations: while Urban might have expected a few thousand knights, he ended up with a migration numbering up to 100,000 Crusaders of mostly unskilled fighters, including women and children.^[

 

First they went through central Europe killing Jews  ( 2 - 12 , 000 ) . Then they pillaged their way through Hungary . Then they did the Rhineland massacre of Jews. Then they burned Belgrade , then burned down a mill at Nis for some reason , resulting in an attack on them with killed 1/4 of them . Then the 30,000 left got ferried across the Bosporus  to get rid of them.   Then they pillaged and raided on until the Turks besieged them ,  they had to drink donkey blood and their own urine .  The first major battle against the Turks, they met with a hail of arrows and immediately ran away .  They where followed back to their camp where the rest where killed (except women and children )  3,000 took refuge in an abandon castle and most of these after the siege and defeat  returned to Constantinople .   3,000 out of 100,000  left  ....   And what did they achieve ?

 

Well, even the poor of today have big screen TVs.

 

I actually find that offensive !  Its like a friend of mine was saying " Its hard when I travel OS and poor people want money ... I have to explain to them  that I am poor too !  "    Yeah , right !   You can afford a car , have a job, a nice house and can  afford  an OS holiday, but you are poor  (and by the way , she cant afford a wide screen tv either ! ) 

 

Which the richest person in the world who lived 100 years ago could not afford.

 

Was that a joke ?

 

 

The poor of today have material and standard of living based things superior to the wealthy of the past.

 

Thats offensive as well .

 

 

Which could lead to them being more like a privileged class.

 

Your ID picture here was well chosen !

 

 

 

[Nungali]

13 hours ago, Apech said:

Christianity is so weird.

 

 

It certainly IS  ! 

[Sanity Check]

7 hours ago, NorthWide said:

 

Micah 5 , Jude 9-10

 

Remnant, Myriad is kind of like saying maximum number in metaphors.

Some say 10000, others describe a large unspecified number...

 

That is correct. It won't be the same as first century. Neither will it be a cult where you have to study magazines, on an online app.

 

Generally I've found you need to read at least more than 5 pages of the bible a day for noticeable change. It has to come from the bible.

 

[unexpected twist]

 

Run the bible as a program using AI and see what happens. I honestly don't know but Micah 3, constant plowing and threshing might yield a more consistent product.

 

 

Good verses, thanks for that.

 

[Sanity Check]

2 hours ago, Nungali said:

Well, even the poor of today have big screen TVs.

 

I actually find that offensive !  Its like a friend of mine was saying " Its hard when I travel OS and poor people want money ... I have to explain to them  that I am poor too !  "    Yeah , right !   You can afford a car , have a job, a nice house and can  afford  an OS holiday, but you are poor  (and by the way , she cant afford a wide screen tv either ! ) 

 

Which the richest person in the world who lived 100 years ago could not afford.

 

Was that a joke ?

 

 

The poor of today have material and standard of living based things superior to the wealthy of the past.

 

Thats offensive as well .

 

 

Which could lead to them being more like a privileged class.

 

Your ID picture here was well chosen !

 

 

 

 

Would you be offended if 100 years from now.

 

The poor people of that future era own things Elon Musk couldn't dream of having.

 

But perhaps their overall levels of happiness & contentment might be lower.

 

Last I checked a good segment of the african economy is smartphone based.

 

And so even poor africans can own smartphones which the wealthiest person in the world who lived 100 years ago, could not afford.

 

 

[Nungali]

17 hours ago, Sanity Check said:

 

 

 

Would you be offended if 100 years from now.

 

The poor people of that future era own things Elon Musk couldn't dream of having.

 

You cant seem to comprehend what 'poor' actually means .   In privileged white western society  it might mean you cant afford to repair your private swimming pool .

 

But perhaps their overall levels of happiness & contentment might be lower.

 

Last I checked a good segment of the african economy is smartphone based.

 

Yes, how the economy works is a great indication of  how poor individuals are ! 

 

And so even poor africans can own smartphones which the wealthiest person in the world who lived 100 years ago, could not afford.

 

 

 

OMG

 

Dude !   Not only could they not afford them ... they had not been invented then !   

 

 

 

[Sanity Check]

7 hours ago, Nungali said:

You cant seem to comprehend what 'poor' actually means .   In privileged white western society  it might mean you cant afford to repair your private swimming pool .

 

OMG

 

Dude !   Not only could they not afford them ... they had not been invented then !   

 

 

 

 

 

Cannot repair swimming pool? 

 

Are you sure?

 

From: https://africa-business.com/features/mobile-phones-export-africa.html

 

-Africa's mobile phone market is a $75 billion dollar industry.

 

-Hundreds of millions of africans have access to mobile services

 

If they have these services now imagine what they will have with another 100 years of scientific progress.

 

The real question is whether people will recognize how lucky they are to be beneficiaries of progress.

 

Maybe they'll have an endless supply of innovation & technology.

 

While being able to appreciate none of it.

[Nungali]

14 hours ago, Sanity Check said:

 

 

Cannot repair swimming pool? 

 

Are you sure?

 

From: https://africa-business.com/features/mobile-phones-export-africa.html

 

-Africa's mobile phone market is a $75 billion dollar industry.

 

So ?   I know about that and have known about it since it started .   Having a mobile phone does not alleviate the  effects being poor has on one and their community .  Its amazing how ignorant one can be to even assume this !   Aside from your 'phone statistics' are you telling me you cannot see the effects of being poor within the African population that does have phones ? 

 

-Hundreds of millions of africans have access to mobile services .

 

And all of a sudden all the problems related to being poor vanished, did they ?

 

If they have these services now imagine what they will have with another 100 years of scientific progress.

 

Hopefully its a lot better than the services they get now from an already  technologically advanced world   . 

 

           

 

The real question is whether people will recognize how lucky they are to be beneficiaries of progress.

 

Why dont you ask that of the people above .

 

Maybe they'll have an endless supply of innovation & technology.

 

Some food and somewhere to live might be more helpful .

 

While being able to appreciate none of it.

 

Damn ungrateful  non-westerners  ,  eh ?

 

[Cobie]

.

Edited Tuesday at 11:27 PM by Cobie

[Sanity Check]

8 hours ago, Nungali said:

Having a mobile phone does not alleviate the  effects being poor has on one and their community

 

 

No one said having a phone did any such thing.