心神 ~ Posted 21 hours ago (edited) 6 hours ago, Nungali said: One unenlightened person among many ..... what ? One understands the true nature of things through experience. My limited understanding is informed by a lack of experience, and reinforced by my personal environment. So not only can I not speak to the truth of whether every phenomena is an act of love and joy, it's not something that has been shown to me by those around me, because I am not in an environment in my day to day life with people who have experienced and comprehended the true nature of things. 12 hours ago, Nungali said: But from the point of view that I explained previously ( ie, we chose to have the experience of life ; which IS joy and suffering , hope and despair , life and death ) It has been my personal experience that life is joy and suffering, hope and despair, life and death. So I agree with this perspective. I don't know if we choose to come here. " To us, every phenomenon is an Act of Love, every experience is necessary, is a Sacrament, is a means of Growth. Hence, ”…existence is pure joy;…“ I don't believe every experience, every phenomena is an act of love, because I have acted in cruel, unloving ways. I have been at the mercy of cruel, unloving ways. Not all things are done in love. We may come here in pursuit of love and joy, but we come to a place of suffering to do so. 14 hours ago, Nungali said: ... the thing is , on the face of that statement , its a philosophy of absolute love .... stuck into a thread about "God is not love ' . To your point, is God love? Are we love? Are all things love? Again, I don't know. In the absence of experience, I only have questions. Do we separate from God to come here? If God is the ultimate source of love and joy, what is the reason we seek to separate in order to experience what we already are and were? Are we God experiencing itself? Is physical incarnation required for that? Are suffering, despair, and death acts of love? Acts of God, acts of ourselves, one and the same? Quote "We are not human until we undergo training for it - initiation . Stripping it back to its basic function ( across time and locations * ) its essential purpose is to make acceptable socially based humans out of wild animals ." What are we stripping away? Do we remove love to reveal love? If all things are love, why is this process necessary? Edited 21 hours ago by 心神 ~ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted 11 hours ago 9 hours ago, 心神 ~ said: One understands the true nature of things through experience. My limited understanding is informed by a lack of experience, and reinforced by my personal environment. So not only can I not speak to the truth of whether every phenomena is an act of love and joy, it's not something that has been shown to me by those around me, because I am not in an environment in my day to day life with people who have experienced and comprehended the true nature of things. Well, in the literal everyday sense , of course . It's more of a philosophical outlook , or aim . I often fail at it ... how can I explain it .... perhaps for a Christian, one might see it expressed in Jesus ; love your enemies etc . On the smaller everyday level, one could think of parental discipline , a naughty child with a 'troublesome streak' , may not see discipline as the 'act of love' that the parent does . Also I feel it is our natural state , when not interfered with ... most of us may have lost that a long time ago . 9 hours ago, 心神 ~ said: It has been my personal experience that life is joy and suffering, hope and despair, life and death. So I agree with this perspective. I don't know if we choose to come here. I think that any ' I ' that chose to come here , is far removed from the ' I ' that undergoes the experience ' down here ' . From my perspective here , I don't know if I would have chosen any of this , or I would have changed this or that ... yet as I get older and accrue more experience .... sometimes I think I would not change anything at all . But then again, I have had a very good life , VERY good , so perhaps I am biased . 9 hours ago, 心神 ~ said: " To us, every phenomenon is an Act of Love, every experience is necessary, is a Sacrament, is a means of Growth. Hence, ”…existence is pure joy;…“ I don't believe every experience, every phenomena is an act of love, because I have acted in cruel, unloving ways. I have been at the mercy of cruel, unloving ways. Not all things are done in love. We may come here in pursuit of love and joy, but we come to a place of suffering to do so. That can be one way of understanding it .... everything is a pursuit to love and joy . For me I have felt 'the pure joy of existence' ... but that is just 'being' and feeling existence and life , when one can get away from the distractions and the suffering ( for some of us ) it just 'is' . Existence is not pure joy while suffering ... unless you can move beyond that . 9 hours ago, 心神 ~ said: To your point, is God love? Are we love? Are all things love? Again, I don't know. In the absence of experience, I only have questions. Do we separate from God to come here? IN a way , but a connection seems to remain . Jung called it 'the religious instinct' and considered it part of the basic human program (along with the three mentioned by Freud ) . 9 hours ago, 心神 ~ said: If God is the ultimate source of love and joy, what is the reason we seek to separate in order to experience what we already are and were? Ooops , I nearly gave you an answer from 'him who you don't want to hear from ' . My ( not as good answer ) would be : to personally and physically experience the wonders of the Universe . 9 hours ago, 心神 ~ said: Are we God experiencing itself? I would not put it that way . More like ; we are experiencing for that 'above' aspect of ourselves . When the explorer returns he is asked " What did you find there " ? I see (or don't see ) 'God' as a Long way off . I think I am so unrefined , on that level, that any 'angel' I could contact would feel the same .... maybe those in levels upon levels above them , might start to get a glimmer . 9 hours ago, 心神 ~ said: Is physical incarnation required for that? I think its required for the process I just outlined above . . 9 hours ago, 心神 ~ said: Are suffering, despair, and death acts of love? Acts of God, acts of ourselves, one and the same? No . I don't think acts of God and ourselves are one and the same . I don't even know what 'acts of God' are . 9 hours ago, 心神 ~ said: What are we stripping away? Do we remove love to reveal love? If all things are love, why is this process necessary? I don't know ... what are we 'stripping away ' ? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
