My Experience With Lucid Dreaming In Different Traditions (Personal Insights On Importance Of "Personal Match" With Lineage)

[Nuralshamal]

Dear Dao Bums,

I've already detailed my "journey" with lucid dreaming since I was a teenager here:
Part 1: https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/53847-sleeping-qigong-and-lucid-dreaming/

Part 2: https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/55610-my-experience-with-tulku-lobsang-medicine-buddha-dream-yoga/

Today I want to share some more recent experiences and insights especially pertaining to the importance of the match between you as an individual and the particular practices, teacher and lineage you learn from.

Since my last update this is what I've done lucid dreaming wise:
6 months of daily medicine buddha, tummo meditation and nightly lucid dreaming as taught by Tulku Lobsang Rinpoche.
6 months of "golden light dream travel skill" as taught in Maoshan.

Buddhist Practice:
Here my progress was very linear.
I started with about 1-2 lucid dreams a week with low control, then it just slowly increased to 3-4 dreams with more control, then ending with about 5 dreams a week with some pretty good control and interesting insights.

Daoist Practice:
I got a formal initiation quite some time ago, and it had been about 1 year of daily recitation of the "golden light mantra" alongside its meditation, before I stopped everything else in order to go "all in" with Maoshan.

I first intended to try just one 49 day cycle and see how it matched up against my former buddhist dreaming practice. In the entire 49 days I think I had only 1 lucid dream. I was quite surprised - I had formal initiation (something I didn't have at all with the buddhist practice), on top of that I had cultivated the mantra, meditation and talisman used for more than 1 year before starting the dream practice associated with it.

After the 49 day cycle, I felt an inner kind of "discipline" arising, like I wouldn't quit before I reached success.

So I went on for 6 months with continous daily golden light mantra recitation and meditation, and nightly golden light dream skill.

However, in the entire 6 months, while I did feel the power of the golden light mantra recitation and meditation increasing, I never had any lucid dreams. In the entire 6 months I had only 3.

Personal Insights
Looking back I tried to understand what happened. Looking even further back, I saw that even though trying different dream practices for 12 months (6 months buddhist, 6 month daoist) I never reached the same success as I did with a Bön method I did for just 1-2 months.

With the Bön practice, I just read it in a book. I never even met the teacher face to face, nor got a formal transmission or initiation. Just reading the book was the only "transmission". Yet to this day, it's the one thing that just works for me.

This inspired me to do a kind of meta analysis of all the spiritual practices I've done. I've tried a lot of things, something I've also been critiqued for both publically here on the forum in threads as well as in personal messages here.

I saw that of all the practices I've gone through since 2013 (when I made the commitment to daily dedicated spiritual practice for the rest of my life - before that I had been practicing a few things sporadically since about 2003), there was a really small "greatest hits" list that just "worked" for me.

1) Simplified Kundalini Yoga (SKY)
First one was Simplified Kundalini Yoga (SKY) I started in 2017. Since the very first day, I just hit home, I found personal satisfaction, and felt like I found "what I had been looking for" spiritually all my life. Since then, this has been my main daily practice which I never stopped.

2) Talisman Healing Qigong
Second was "talisman healing qigong" with Master Zhongxian Wu in 2018. I was super sceptical about healing, actually didn't believe in it, but just by chance there was a chance to attend a workshop. On the workshop I was quite surprised that it seemed to work. However, when I did the 49 day cycle at home, I practiced on family and friends, and to my great surprise - it just worked! The word spread, and random people started calling me for healing. After this first 49 day cycle (this was just 1 talisman), I've since learnt and practiced 5 talismans (one for each element). It feels like a solid, reliable support for me - it's just there, it just works, and it was from day one. Just the whole surprise and power of it has also made it a mainstay in my practice - use it daily to bless and energize food, drink, sometimes if I'm with family and friends and they ask.

3) Bön Lucid Dreaming Method
Just by chance, I read a book on lucid dreaming in 2021. I tried the usual "red syllable" in the throat method, I tried since I was a teenager, it never worked for me. As I read on in the book, there was a very simple Bön method where you visualise a crystal. To my great surprise, it just worked! And it stabilised, I predictably had lucid dreams every single night from that day. I was blown away! It was huge for me, decades of reasearch, reading, studying, workshops and failed practice was a thing of the past, it just clicked.
However, I felt I got progressively more tired during the daytime as the days went on, this made me fearful, as I remember Master Zhongxian Wu critiquing buddhist sleeping and dreaming practices during one of his retreats, saying night time is for rest. So I stopped the practice, and my energy returned.

4) Becoming a SKY Master
This was in the late fall into early winter of 2021. I went to the temple in India to get my last initiation of activating all chakras and learning as well as blessing and training to become a master myself, to help others progressively open their chakras in the SKY way.
Similarly, it just clicked. Since that day I've initiated about 70 people, about 30 family and friends and 40 strangers on workshops. Every single one felt the power of Vethathiri and SKY, it just works. I'm amazed each time, the power just generates and flows through me (I'm just a vessel). I cannot even imagine how powerful Vethathiri must have been while in the physical body. 

5) Bodily Pleasure of the Goddess, Sri Vidya
This was more of a surprise, I gave it a shot on the recommendation of a close family member. With Raja Shyamala I felt a bodily pleasure in meditation I had never felt before, it was so incredible. Then I  reached the Sri Meru Navavarana Puja (worshipping the golden 3D pyramid version of the more commonly known 2D Sri Yantra), and was blown away. I was so blissed out I could barely lift my arm.

It was however incredibly time-consuming (2 hours daily), so haven't done it since completing my first 41 day mandala. But it's nice to know it's there and available.

6) Maoshan Black Magic
Very recently some parts of the "black book" of Southern Maoshan has been posted as an online class. I've tried a few of the methods (even though I must admit I was quite scared and of course directly opposed to all forms of black magic), but realised it honestly wasn't that different from all the mantras, talismans and qigong methods I've tried before. 

It just depends on your intention: if you wish to help alleviate the suffering of yourself and others, while avoiding hurting yourself and others, there's not really anything to oppose (from my usual religious/spiritual perspective that's against black magic) about the method.

Usually black magic is done using "impermissible" means (e.g. filthy and blasphemous objects and despicable acts with the intention of selfish gain to the detriment of "the greater good" (other living beings, nature, the universe, your fellow man)). However none of these are in the methods I've tried.

There's been 1 particular practice in there (using mantra and talisman) that's honestly blown my socks off. This has also been a game changer for me, and opened up my mind and perspective about what magic is and what it can do, instead of just being "against it" in a very black/white way. 

Conclusion
After these 12 years of daily comitted spiritual practice, there are just 6 items on my list. These are things that are reliable, secure, available and just works.

When I compare that to ALL the teachers, teachings, practices, workshops and lineages I've been through, my God, those particular practices are simply precious pearls, so hard to find, so hard to come by and exceptionally rare.

The list with all the things I've tried that just flat out doesn't work, or didn't work for me, or didn't really impact me or my life in any way - it would have a LOT on it.

When I philosophize over the reason behind it, the only thing I feel arise in my heart is just the feeling of the importance of "the personal connection".

Your soul is very particular and unique, just like a custom made lock. Only a very specific key can unlock it. You can insert 1000s and 1000s of keys, but no one will fit and open your soul, UNLESS it's one of these rare and precious pearls, gems hidden across this Earth for your soul to search out, earn through effort and ethical living, and finally receive to transform yourself and your life forever.

I needed to roam, to explore, to cultivate adventure, to sample, but having now sampled so much, I feel that I now value these few practices much more.

I think I will shift my focus to going further and deeper with these few precious pearls at least 80% of the time, then staying 20% open for new practices.

If I had just "shut down" shop when I found SKY, I wouldn't have found these other precious gemstones, but on the other hand I can also see how over the past 4 years I've probably divided my attention 40/60% in favor of adventure and trying new things.

With what I've learnt now, I feel it will be better to go to 80/20. I feel like I need to stay open, because you never know when a new blessing will emerge and change your life for ever, but on the other hand, the depth and power you get from cultivating just a few things ALL the way is incredible.

That's the whole basis of gong fu - master just ONE thing, and everyone will bow their heads in honor of your achievement and you will use it to better lives of yourself, your family, your loved ones and society, alleviating the suffering of others while being a blessing to all living beings.

So I guess my invitation to you now is:
1) What's the best thing you tried spiritually, that just clicked, that just worked? Did you stay with it?
2) Why do you think it matched you so well? How is it nourishing your unique soul in incredible ways?
3) Are you holding on to practices "just to stay disciplined, loyal and comitted", even though they're not really doing it for you? What stops you from letting go and trying new things?

I pray all our souls will enjoy their adventure to the full, sampling, enjoying and adventuring, while also staying true to our unique course on the long term, and that we all may find the precious pearl of our personal soul, journeying in the mystery of the all-encompassing Absolute

God bless you

[tao.te.kat]

Very nice report.

 

Didnt you try "modern methods" like WILD or so?

 

I also found that Bon practices are more precise than others. But I havent tried as much as you.

 

Thank you

[doc benway]

On 1/14/2025 at 12:13 PM, Nuralshamal said:

So I guess my invitation to you now is:
1) What's the best thing you tried spiritually, that just clicked, that just worked? Did you stay with it?

 

The practice of the 3 Doors -- resting in the nature of mind through connecting with stillness of the body, silence of the inner voices, and spaciousness of the heart-mind. Yes, I've stayed with it for about 12 years now although I am able to shortcut the 3 Doors and simply rest the mind in openness most of the time. Nevertheless, I often return to the 3 Doors practices for myself and in teaching and guiding others. 

 

On 1/14/2025 at 12:13 PM, Nuralshamal said:

2) Why do you think it matched you so well? How is it nourishing your unique soul in incredible ways?

 

It is simple, direct, and accessible at any time. It can, and should, become a practice not only for sitting on the mat in seclusion but in any circumstance of life. It is the ultimate nourishment as it connects me to the source of my being. It is a refuge that, when enough familiarity is established, can be a source of strength, creativity, and peace in difficult circumstances. 

 

On 1/14/2025 at 12:13 PM, Nuralshamal said:

3) Are you holding on to practices "just to stay disciplined, loyal and comitted", even though they're not really doing it for you? What stops you from letting go and trying new things?

 

No, I tried a variety of things over the years but my current mindset is to stay with what works and go deeper and more consistent, rather than jump around to multiple practices. As I get older, I realize my time on Earth is limited and I don't have a lot of time to fool around. 

 

Regarding the topic of lucid dreaming, I practiced Bön dream and sleep yoga for a period of time each and found them very effective. My experience was that I've never had more restful sleep than when lucid dreaming. Arguably, no more energy is expended when lucid in a dream than when buffeted about by the uncontrolled activity of samsaric dreaming. In addition, the part of the practice related to preparing for sleep, sleep hygiene one could say, seems to play a big role in enhancing the quality of sleep and rest. 

[Nuralshamal]

8 hours ago, tao.te.kat said:

Very nice report.

 

Didnt you try "modern methods" like WILD or so?

 

I also found that Bon practices are more precise than others. But I havent tried as much as you.

 

Thank you

Thanks for your kind feedback

Yes, I did try modern methods. I read Stephen LaBerge's book back when I was a teenager, and have tried a lot of modern, science based approaches too (WILD, reality check during the day, setting intention, dream journaling, getting up during the night etc).

Unfortunately it never worked for me. 

That's why I pursued the more ancient, traditional methods (Buddhism, Daoism, Hinduism and Bön). 

My thinking was simply: over millenia, this has worked for at least some people, otherwise it would have died out. So the chance of succes seems reasonable.

Very interesting to hear you've found Bön more precise - motivates me to keep an eye out for more Bön

[Nuralshamal]

3 hours ago, doc benway said:

 

The practice of the 3 Doors -- resting in the nature of mind through connecting with stillness of the body, silence of the inner voices, and spaciousness of the heart-mind. Yes, I've stayed with it for about 12 years now although I am able to shortcut the 3 Doors and simply rest the mind in openness most of the time. Nevertheless, I often return to the 3 Doors practices for myself and in teaching and guiding others. 

 

 

It is simple, direct, and accessible at any time. It can, and should, become a practice not only for sitting on the mat in seclusion but in any circumstance of life. It is the ultimate nourishment as it connects me to the source of my being. It is a refuge that, when enough familiarity is established, can be a source of strength, creativity, and peace in difficult circumstances. 

 

 

No, I tried a variety of things over the years but my current mindset is to stay with what works and go deeper and more consistent, rather than jump around to multiple practices. As I get older, I realize my time on Earth is limited and I don't have a lot of time to fool around. 

 

Regarding the topic of lucid dreaming, I practiced Bön dream and sleep yoga for a period of time each and found them very effective. My experience was that I've never had more restful sleep than when lucid dreaming. Arguably, no more energy is expended when lucid in a dream than when buffeted about by the uncontrolled activity of samsaric dreaming. In addition, the part of the practice related to preparing for sleep, sleep hygiene one could say, seems to play a big role in enhancing the quality of sleep and rest. 

Thanks for sharing your own precious experience

Great point about our limited time - succes indeed takes a long while of dedicated practice.

Dig one deep hole to reach water, rather than 50 shallow ones

Great point about sleep hygiene, would love to go deeper in sleep yoga too.

An experience I forgot to mention earlier was the Daoist "sleeping qigong" taught by Master Wu.

Unfortunately he's quite "Chinese" in his way of teaching, withholding lots of information, keeping secrets, but he definitely knows a complete system of sleeping qigong.

I've tried it on all the retreats I've been on.

It consists of posture, mudra and visualisation.

Then because I was on a lot of retreats, randomly he'll give new pieces of information here and there, and then you can slowly kind of piece it together yourself.

Had some interesting experiences for sure, the best was one "black out sleep on command". Even though I've done many 49 day cycles of it, it has only given me succes about 3-4 times.

2 times during retreats (when he first taught it), and 2 times during my own home practice.

I've got pretty big sleep needs, 9 hours.

With this "black out sleep on command", you simply do a small visualisation, and at the end you go into black out, dreamless sleep. Because the sleep quality is so good, deep and restful, I only needed to sleep 7 hours in those retreats.

Would love to go further, as my big sleep needs have always kind of forced me to maintain strict sleep discipline (a good thing), but it takes some hours away from practices that can be done during waking time.

Another qigong master from Australia even confided he knows a qigong master residing in a mountain temple that teaches a unique method of sleeping qigong, where you sleep just 1 hour and then feel fully rested.

So it's definitely on my list after I hopefully "master" (pretty big word, but at least progress to a certain point) lucid dreaming. Pursuing sleep yoga further that is (just high quality dreamless sleep)