Why were the highest spiritual teachings kept hidden/secret

[Neirong]

23 hours ago, manitou said:

 

I'd be careful on this.  There are many who have ascended because they have fought off their inner demons.  The instructor is within.

 

Without control, observation, or peer accountability, anyone could claim to be an enlightened master or an ascended deity. The internet is full of such individuals. There’s a famous saying: "I am controlling the world when the psychiatrist isn’t looking."
 

However, when subjected to adequate scrutiny, reasonable testing, and the involvement of genuine individuals with real spiritual accomplishments (siddhis), it becomes clear that what often spreads through online platforms is a severe case of delusion, schizophrenia, or acute mental illness. Unfortunately, no one seems to have taken even a single step toward genuine enlightenment.
 

In the end, it’s all just mental masturbation—a self-indulgent activity confined to the mind.
 

5 hours ago, Sanity Check said:

For the same reason most major breakthroughs in science were achieved by individuals working alone, rather than teams.

It’s the opposite. It’s like saying people who were never taught how to read or write could become great scientists.
 

There’s virtually no chance of making meaningful progress in spiritual cultivation without first establishing a solid foundation and mastering the basics.

You can explore it independently only once your competency reaches certain level. 

 

21 hours ago, Master Logray said:

But Buddhist monks customarily live in congregations/monasteries

It has also strict training/life regime and hierarchy system. Which makes sense if you want to see any results overtime.

 

[Master Logray]

I think this discussion on going solo and alone needs to consider the element of time and stages.  Take Taoist cultivators as an example, they need to go through stages.   In some stages, they have to mingle with the crowd (not only fellow cultivators).  It is to ensure their training and discipline would always be observed, but not only during meditation time.  Otherwise any mishap will derail the whole process and they never can do it again.  In the final stage being alone most of the time is necessary to go and maintain deep levels.   In the interim they jump in and out according to their teachings and current necessities.

 

Anyway I think those read a few books, listen to some podcasts and go some retreats then go directly into hiding and fasting mode is problem prone.  It is always better to be in a team or a community during the early and mid stages except those 1 teacher 1 student scenario.

 

[Master Logray]

I think this discussion on going solo and alone needs to consider the element of time and stages.  Take Taoist cultivators as an example, they need to go through stages.   In some stages, they have to mingle with the crowd (not only fellow cultivators).  It is to ensure their training and discipline would always be observed, but not only during meditation time.  Otherwise any mishap will derail the whole process and they never can do it again.  In the final stage being alone most of the time is necessary to go and maintain deep levels.   In the interim they jump in and out according to their teachings and current necessities.

 

Anyway I think those read a few books, listen to some podcasts and go some retreats then go directly into hiding and fasting mode is problem prone.  It is always better to be in a team or a community during the early and mid stages except those 1 teacher 1 student scenario.

 

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

@Neirong and @Master Logray make good points, before you can run by yourself, someone has to teach you how to walk.

[Lairg]

2 hours ago, Master Logray said:

I think this discussion on going solo and alone needs to consider the element of time and stages. 

 

A regular visitor came a few days ago.  When she stood at the edge of the patio looking down into the creek she stepped off the concrete and stood in the river gravel  I had put there, consciously pressing her feet into the gravel.  I had not seen her do that before.

 

So I tried it too and there was a distinctly better energy in the gravel compared to the concrete.

 

I asked her why she had done that on that occasion.  She said the voice in her head told her to do it.   I was pleased as I had had such assistance for a long time.  It was always valuable assistance - and on one occasion accurate a decade in advance.

 

It took me years to identify the voice in my head.  The source turned out to be well known to me and others.

 

 

Even though she and I were apparently solo in our inner process, we were being supported.

 

It seems that secret teachings can be provided at the right time without a  human group  process

 

 

 

 

Edited February 23 by Lairg

[Nungali]

Aha !   I was wondering what level the 'secret teachings' were at  with some here . 

 

Mine must be very advanced ......   I learnt that  river gravel is better to stand on than concrete some time back ..... but being  a secret information, I swore never to tell anyone else about it .  

 

It looks like Lairg  is gonna get hung from a bridge , upside down, at midnight .

 

For you others ;   'Sacred River Gravel '   $299  per bag - stand on it and watch your LDT rotate  left ,right,  up,  down and left  (again ) 

 

Send money plus $85 postage to   ;  Nungali   c/o  Daobums  -  online  (sometimes ) .

 

 

[old3bob]

24 minutes ago, Nungali said:

Aha !   I was wondering what level the 'secret teachings' were at  with some here . 

 

Mine must be very advanced ......   I learnt that  river gravel is better to stand on than concrete some time back ..... but being  a secret information, I swore never to tell anyone else about it .  

 

It looks like Lairg  is gonna get hung from a bridge , upside down, at midnight .

 

For you others ;   'Sacred River Gravel '   $299  per bag - stand on it and watch your LDT rotate  left ,right,  up,  down and left  (again ) 

 

Send money plus $85 postage to   ;  Nungali   c/o  Daobums  -  online  (sometimes ) .

 

 

 

heck, 85$ bucks for shipping is a deal.  Btw I could get people some larger river rocks (to go with the gravel) at about those prices, just don't use them in your fire pit since the moisture inside of them might blow them up when heated. 

 

Hey Mark how much for those Zen garden rocks?  Just a donation?

Edited February 23 by old3bob

[Lairg]

 

Quote

on the road less graveled sometimes one approaches a beckoning gate to another world, some parallel universe. to enter or not to enter is the question.

 

Quote

TO KNOW, TO DARE, TO WILL, TO KEEP SILENCE

 

Edited February 23 by Lairg

[idiot_stimpy]

Why do they say the highest spiritual teachings are self concealing/self hidden? 

 

Meaning its a secret that hides itself, no hiding needed from anything else.

[Lairg]

Many of the powers implicit in the human format await:

 

- control of relevant functions of the light-body

- discharge of personal karma

- right relationships with particular transcendent entities

- sufficient alignment with trans-galactic intent.

 

Partnerships and cooperation can then be established and the initiate is delegated limited decision-making to assist the local cosmos.

 

 

 

 

 

[doc benway]

7 hours ago, idiot_stimpy said:

Why do they say the highest spiritual teachings are self concealing/self hidden? 

 

Meaning its a secret that hides itself, no hiding needed from anything else.

 

When you “get it,” referring to realizing, direct understanding of, “the highest spiritual teachings” in Tibetan Buddhism, you realize it’s been staring you in the face the entire time. There’s never been a moment you were a hair’s breadth away from it, and yet you just couldn’t see it. If your karma is not right, you won’t get it, no matter how it is presented.

[Sanity Check]

On 2/23/2025 at 5:30 AM, Neirong said:

It’s the opposite. It’s like saying people who were never taught how to read or write could become great scientists.
 

There’s virtually no chance of making meaningful progress in spiritual cultivation without first establishing a solid foundation and mastering the basics.

You can explore it independently only once your competency reaches certain level. 

 

 

 

Contrast the examples you cite with christianity and organized religion.

 

With christianity the best chance a person has of learning anything relevant is to avoid group activities propagating hive mind based indoctrination. The same might be said of most forms of organized religion. Accepting the group format and their ideology will set a person back years, even decades, in terms of gaining knowledge and competence.

 

I can't comment on taoism or esoteric practices as I've never experienced them.

 

In examining basic taoist ideology, I'm left with many questions. The way I lived my life is 100% the complete opposite of basic advice taoists and esoterists offer. 

 

People turn to religion and spiritualism seeking answers. When they can't get answers that are satisfying they abandon the group setting and begin searching on their own. 

 

It seems that this trend of people like myself receiving unsatisfying answers to questions is becoming more defined over time. 

 

Not everyone wants to develop magical powers or open their third eye.

 

Some only want answers and to better comprehend basic principles at work.

 

And when those explanations of basic principles are not coherent or consistent, it raises questions and causes people to lose faith in the organized format of things.

 

 

[Master Logray]

On 2/24/2025 at 1:53 PM, idiot_stimpy said:

Why do they say the highest spiritual teachings are self concealing/self hidden? 

 

Meaning its a secret that hides itself, no hiding needed from anything else.

 

You change your question.   Back to the old question, I think most of the knowledge in this world is hidden, not only spiritual teachings.   Only when the Internet becomes popular, there is a substantial sharing of information - free.  

  

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

14 hours ago, Sanity Check said:

I can't comment on taoism or esoteric practices as I've never experienced them.

You do realise the vast majority of this site is about Taoism and esoteric practices? 
 

 

[Sanity Check]

13 hours ago, -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- said:

You do realise the vast majority of this site is about Taoism and esoteric practices? 
 

 

 

 

And?

 

Did you have a point?

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

11 minutes ago, Sanity Check said:

 

 

And?

 

Did you have a point?

Not really 

[Neirong]

On 25.02.2025 at 8:41 AM, Sanity Check said:

With christianity the best chance a person has of learning anything relevant is to avoid group activities propagating hive mind based indoctrination. The same might be said of most forms of organized religion. 

This is factually incorrect. I wonder how being born outside of society and never hearing about Christianity would help someone advance in the Christian tradition.
 

You need someone to initiate you from within. You need someone to introduce you to the religion. Moreover, any religion is an Egregore, and Egregores are based on human minds.

The benefits of engaging with a religion through a powerful saint, rather than a regular person who barely believes, are incomparable. A saint, who embodies and radiates the profound energy of the religion often accompanied by siddhis and spiritual abilities can offer a transformative experience. In contrast, being introduced by someone on the outer layers of the egregore, with limited faith or connection, pales in comparison. The difference is like that between heaven and earth. Most people who follow religions may not even realize that these are powerful energy channels they could benefit from. Instead, they practice out of habit, societal norms, or tradition.
 

On 25.02.2025 at 8:41 AM, Sanity Check said:

I can't comment on taoism or esoteric practices as I've never experienced them.

Then don’t do it.
 

One of the key differences between public "esoteric" forums and closed "internal arts" schools is that on forums, you are taught and advised by random people without any qualifications, skills, or testing—or worse, from public books. Schools, on the other hand, strictly forbid such practices. Each school would have its own criteria and qualifications, milestones to achieve, that would be required to start teaching. It's a controlled environment.
 

People who preach in public often exude confidence and use public opinion or authority to push their views.
 

The results of these "free teachings" are on full public display.

 

On 25.02.2025 at 8:41 AM, Sanity Check said:

to develop magical powers or open their third eye.

You do not even know what it is.
 

To summarize the previous questions, the third eye or magical powers are not mere gimmicks. They are not like an iPhone that you buy and discard. They represent a complete and fundamental transformation of a being at the core level, permanently altering the way you perceive and experience reality.
 

Monkeys living in the jungle have DNA structures almost identical to ours, yet their lives and world experiences are vastly different from humans'.
 

To put it simply for someone without esoteric experience, the difference between someone who cultivates esoteric arts and unlocks these powers is far more profound than the difference between a human and a monkey.
 

On 23.02.2025 at 8:43 PM, Master Logray said:

Anyway I think those read a few books, listen to some podcasts and go some retreats then go directly into hiding and fasting mode is problem prone.  It is always better to be in a team or a community during the early and mid stages except those 1 teacher 1 student scenario.

Yes, but even in the advanced or later stages of cultivation, having access to peers of equal or higher levels to communicate and share experiences with is an invaluable asset.
 

For solo cultivators, however, this lack of connection often becomes a fast track to insanity, mental ailments, and qi deviations.

The main reason it seems people choose the solo path is to avoid scrutiny and reality checks. This allows them to quickly ascend to a self-proclaimed "galactic demiurge" level and feel satisfied with their delusions.

 

On 24.02.2025 at 4:14 PM, doc benway said:

When you “get it,” referring to realizing, direct understanding of, “the highest spiritual teachings” in Tibetan Buddhism, you realize it’s been staring you in the face the entire time. There’s never been a moment you were a hair’s breadth away from it, and yet you just couldn’t see it.

The common problem of self-guidance is that people realize something, and that's it. They get stuck on it feeling they have achieved/attained something. Their bucket gets full with a realization. On cultivation path, you will pass through thousands realizations, and will never stop on any one of them. "There is always a bigger mountain"

 

On 24.02.2025 at 4:14 PM, doc benway said:

If your karma is not right, you won’t get it, no matter how it is presented.

I don’t see how anyone could develop with such a mindset. You are essentially giving up on cultivation because of karma or other excuses.

[Lairg]

20 minutes ago, Neirong said:

You need someone to initiate you from within. You need someone to introduce you to the religion. Moreover, any religion is an Egregore, and Egregores are based on human minds.

 

That is an interesting discussion.

 

When I stand outside this galaxy, it looks to me as if Earth humanity has been designed for particular functionality and given suitable intent.

 

It does not seem to me that religious constructs are necessary at any stage for the human working to unfold that functionality and intent.   

 

28 minutes ago, Neirong said:

You are essentially giving up on cultivation because of karma or other excuses.

 

Agreed!

 

In this galaxy it seems that right relationship is the primary path.  If so, resolution of karma is implicit in spiritual unfoldment of all soul-bearing species.

 

(I use the term soul-bearing to refer to the third of the five souls described in Egyptian/Kabbalistic systems)

 

   

[johndoe2012]

1 hour ago, Neirong said:

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Neirong said:

The common problem of self-guidance is that people realize something, and that's it. They get stuck on it feeling they have achieved/attained something. Their bucket gets full with a realization. On cultivation path, you will pass through thousands realizations, and will never stop on any one of them. "There is always a bigger mountain"

 

One milestone is peace of mind in daily living, no triggers at all appearing, a completely silent mind, not from suppression. 

 

Fairly simple to evaluate. You don't need a teacher for that? 

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

6 hours ago, Neirong said:

The benefits of engaging with a religion through a powerful saint, rather than a regular person who barely believes, are incomparable. A saint, who embodies and radiates the profound energy of the religion often accompanied by siddhis and spiritual abilities can offer a transformative experience. In contrast, being introduced by someone on the outer layers of the egregore, with limited faith or connection, pales in comparison. The difference is like that between heaven and earth. Most people who follow religions may not even realize that these are powerful energy channels they could benefit from. Instead, they practice out of habit, societal norms, or tradition.

 

Yes, when you meet an actual “saint”, it is quite the paradigm shift realising that the stories of miracles (healing hands etc) are true. They aren’t miracles at all, but the results of many years of correct practice and mindset.
 

6 hours ago, Neirong said:

One of the key differences between public "esoteric" forums and closed "internal arts" schools is that on forums, you are taught and advised by random people without any qualifications, skills, or testing—or worse, from public books. Schools, on the other hand, strictly forbid such practices. Each school would have its own criteria and qualifications, milestones to achieve, that would be required to start teaching. It's a controlled environment.

 

I will never understand why people choose not to learn from a group that has already done the hard work of figuring out what practices are legit and what aren’t. It just wastes so much of your own time trying to figure everything out by yourself.

 

6 hours ago, Neirong said:

Yes, but even in the advanced or later stages of cultivation, having access to peers of equal or higher levels to communicate and share experiences with is an invaluable asset.

Yes, surround yourself with people you can learn more from.

 

6 hours ago, Neirong said:

I don’t see how anyone could develop with such a mindset. You are essentially giving up on cultivation because of karma or other excuses.

To be fair, I believe some people are hard wired not to recognise legit teachings. No matter how much you try to help them or guide them to proper practices, they just don’t see the value in it.

[Sanity Check]

6 hours ago, Neirong said:

This is factually incorrect. I wonder how being born outside of society and never hearing about Christianity would help someone advance in the Christian tradition.
 

You need someone to initiate you from within. You need someone to introduce you to the religion. Moreover, any religion is an Egregore, and Egregores are based on human minds.

The benefits of engaging with a religion through a powerful saint, rather than a regular person who barely believes, are incomparable. A saint, who embodies and radiates the profound energy of the religion often accompanied by siddhis and spiritual abilities can offer a transformative experience. In contrast, being introduced by someone on the outer layers of the egregore, with limited faith or connection, pales in comparison. The difference is like that between heaven and earth. Most people who follow religions may not even realize that these are powerful energy channels they could benefit from. Instead, they practice out of habit, societal norms, or tradition.

 

 

Saints are catholicism only relics. 

 

If you were endorsing a saint. Whose content would you promote? Have you read or heard the content published by those elevated to saintdom by the catholic faith? 

 

The modern day message of christianity has become so dumbed down, oversimplified and diluted. Its shocking to me that anyone would defend it. 

 

 

Quote

Then don’t do it.
 

One of the key differences between public "esoteric" forums and closed "internal arts" schools is that on forums, you are taught and advised by random people without any qualifications, skills, or testing—or worse, from public books. Schools, on the other hand, strictly forbid such practices. Each school would have its own criteria and qualifications, milestones to achieve, that would be required to start teaching. It's a controlled environment.
 

People who preach in public often exude confidence and use public opinion or authority to push their views.
 

The results of these "free teachings" are on full public display.

 

 

You have to know restless people like myself wander far and wide.

 

Searching for knowledge.

 

School formats are boring.

 

If people want to learn, they'll learn.

 

Otherwise, I'm not certain even a school can teach them.

 

Every school as its representatives. Are their representatives impressive? 

 

In discussing christianity and religion there isn't anyone particularly impressive.
 

I have read books written by taoists, read website articles and internet content.

 

One thing I noticed is taoists are more relaxed, more comfortable and more at ease.

 

If you wanted to point to a specific person as the embodiment of everything a taoist or esotericist should be.

 

Is there anyone who could be named?

 

 

Quote

You do not even know what it is.
 

To summarize the previous questions, the third eye or magical powers are not mere gimmicks. They are not like an iPhone that you buy and discard. They represent a complete and fundamental transformation of a being at the core level, permanently altering the way you perceive and experience reality.
 

Monkeys living in the jungle have DNA structures almost identical to ours, yet their lives and world experiences are vastly different from humans'.
 

To put it simply for someone without esoteric experience, the difference between someone who cultivates esoteric arts and unlocks these powers is far more profound than the difference between a human and a monkey.
 

 

 

Have you seen Joe Rogan's 3rd eye logo?

 

 

I would guess if any celebrity undertook a path to open their 3rd eye. It would be that guy ^.

 

Some of the things he says and does are impressive. His retention for data and information impress many.

 

So yes such things as the effect 3rd eye has might be seen and noticed even by someone like me who doesn't know all that much about esoteric practices.

 

Human physiology is very adaptable. Exercising and training certain parts of the body and mind can be transformative even without a 3rd eye being involved.

 

I think its what people do with what they have that matters. 

 

Maybe there are some who will train to open 3rd eye who will only work night and day to make life harder for themselves.

 

Its not necessarily an upgrade when used improperly.

Edited February 28 by Sanity Check

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

1 hour ago, Sanity Check said:

 

 

Saints are catholicism only relics. 
 

 

First of all this is incorrect. You have saints in the Orthodox Christianity, the Anglican Church and others. Even in other religions there are the similar concepts of “saints” like the Wali in Islam, Boddhisattva in Buddhism and Xian in Daoism.

 

I won’t comment on the rest of the post.

[Master Logray]

8 hours ago, Neirong said:

For solo cultivators, however, this lack of connection often becomes a fast track to insanity, mental ailments, and qi deviations.

 

Are you referring to one of the members, the Solo Cultivator ?

 

Generally I agree with what you said.  Solo cultivation, for most people, is out of necessity.   They simply cannot find the suitable peers and teachers or elders. 

 

 

15 minutes ago, -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- said:

 

First of all this is incorrect. You have saints in the Orthodox Christianity, the Anglican Church and others. Even in other religions there are the similar concepts of “saints” like the Wali in Islam, Boddhisattva in Buddhism and Xian in Daoism.

 

 

The term Saint person does exist in Chinese and is widely used.  And it sounds same as Saint in English.  Confucius is considered a Saint.   Perhaps it is coincidence.

 

BTW do you know who is mentioning the name of Tao in Chinese communities most - it is the Christians.  Tao usually means Gospel or God's teaching in Chinese Christian religions.   e.g. Tao Cultivation Institute is the proper Chinese name for Seminary.   Churches adopt name like XYX Tao something.  循道 , 播道，遵道，聖道，樂道，基道 and numerous others.   In their sermons, books, the term Tao is extremely widely used.  This is something you cannot find in Taoism itself.  I wonder if this paragraph should be in the Stranger Things page.

 

 

 

 

[Zork]

On 2/24/2025 at 7:53 AM, idiot_stimpy said:

Why do they say the highest spiritual teachings are self concealing/self hidden? 

 

Meaning its a secret that hides itself, no hiding needed from anything else.

They aren't. The real problem is that you and other people here don't understand empowerment.

 

Most in the western hemisphere aren't even aware that even Christianity has "secrets" and empowerment.

In the Orthodox liturgy at some point there is passage preserved from the ancient age τας θύρας τας θύρας, εν σοφία πρόσχωμεν which translates to " close the doors, we proceed to teaching wisdom/inner teachings". The old temples were designed in a way that the unbaptised/uninitiated were able to watch the proceeding of the rites up to the point that the doors were closed. 

 

Also you need to understand that saints in Christianity ( I assume that it is true in Muslims too) have been empowered to be able to exercise their abilities just like the Buddhists. There is a mention in the acts of the Apostles about some people who were trying to exorcise a demon in the name of Christ while not being baptised/initiated. The demon said something along the lines of "i recognize Jesus and his power but I don't recognize you, who dare to exorcise me in his name. " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acts_19

 

The same is true in Buddism.  Even if you know the "secrets" they are useless to you without empowerment , so the talk about them is moot. I can only assume that the Taoists that don't use empowerment methods only use "secrets" because the actual process of manipulating the subtle energies in the body can cause serious harm without proper and constant guidance from an experienced teacher. Again the "secrets" won't help you proceed. I have heard that there are some signs of progress but they are easy to be mistaken for some other sensations and being over-optimistic will only fuel self delusion that the milestones have been achieved.

[Zork]

2 hours ago, Sanity Check said:

Saints are catholicism only relics. 

This is laughable and only underscores your ignorance.

 

1) You need to understand empowerment and why it is important.

2) In the absence of empowerment only 1 to 1 guidance from a teacher will allow you to make progress.

 

This might seem harsh but it is how reality works.