Why were the highest spiritual teachings kept hidden/secret

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

5 hours ago, Cobie said:

Now here one should run, fast. Imo, never pay more than the normal entertainer fee (like what you pay to go to the theatre). 

 

 

So how seriously do you take your cultivation? Like an all star Broadway show, or the local Christmas pantomime in the village hall?

[silent thunder]

15 hours ago, -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- said:

Lower dantian will not reactivate naturally and spontaneously 

An assumption on your part.  My experience differs.

[old3bob]

 

one of the "highest" spiritual teachings is "love thine enemy", but it too can be dangerous since if idealistically misapplied by a beginner an "enemy" may destroy them...but if applied with wisdom and power backing it up then an enemy may be turned (untwisted) from darkness to light.

Edited Saturday at 12:40 PM by old3bob

[Master Logray]

18 hours ago, doc benway said:

 

An alternative perspective - no one needs to teach a child to walk or run. It happens naturally and spontaneously, when they are ready - ziran. Wisdom can also happen naturally and spontaneously. In many ways, I suggest that it is the infatuation with “cultivation” and “energy” that can be dysfunctional and counter-productive for a lot of people 

 

 

We can divide the "endeavors" in spirituality/energy into 2 broad categories.   The first type is intellectual, theoretical, spiritual, intuition, perception amongst others.  This type can be worked quite alone, by reading books traditionally.   Spontaneous and intuition can occur naturally.  Divine transmission can happen too.

 

The 2nd type is cultivation type - mostly Taoism, Tibetan and Hatha Yoga.   They are practical, technical and physical systems, built up completely by human.   In a sense they are no different from financial system, operation system and other human systems.   The participants must learn the bell and whistles, tricks, know the players and components of the system and working inside.  For these, solo and remote - like books, doesn't help too much.   If there is no one to tell you to cut the red wire or the green wire, no "natural" solution can arise on its own.

 

I think you are generally referring to the 1st type, a more intellectual approach. 

 

 

[Lairg]

7 hours ago, Master Logray said:

I think you are generally referring to the 1st type, a more intellectual approach. 

 

Long ago I was walking down a road and I suddenly knew I had a soul.   I had been taught to believe but suddenly I knew.   That was the start of my conscious development

 

 

Edited Saturday at 09:05 PM by Lairg

[Lairg]

8 hours ago, old3bob said:

one of the "highest" spiritual teachings is "love thine enemy", but it too can be dangerous since if idealistically misapplied by a beginner an "enemy" may destroy them..

 

The key is:  what is love?

 

There is physical love, and emotional love, and mental love,  but it is heart love that transforms enemies.

 

Who can activate and direct heart love to specific people?

 

 

[kakapo]

4 hours ago, Lairg said:

 

The key is:  what is love?

 

There is physical love, and emotional love, and mental love,  but it is heart love that transforms enemies.

 

Who can activate and direct heart love to specific people?

 

 

 

 

[Nungali]

7 hours ago, Lairg said:

 

The key is:  what is love?

 

There is physical love, and emotional love, and mental love,  but it is heart love that transforms enemies.

 

Who can activate and direct heart love to specific people?

 

 

 

' Heart love '   ???    English  !  Mhe ....

 

"  agape toous echthrous humon " 

 

there you go . Now go look up 'agape' . 

[Lairg]

"(agápē)) is "the highest form of love, charity" and "the love of God for [human beings] and of [human beings] for God""

 

Does love exist on levels beyond the heart?

 

Is the human concept of god  sufficient when operating with transcendent love?

 

For example, Christian mystics often referred to the godhead rather than to God

 

How to test such propositions?

 

Better perhaps to take a vote

 

 

 

 

[Neirong]

On 01.03.2025 at 4:30 PM, Master Logray said:

We can divide the "endeavors" in spirituality/energy into 2 broad categories.   The first type is intellectual, theoretical, spiritual, intuition, perception amongst others.  This type can be worked quite alone, by reading books traditionally.   Spontaneous and intuition can occur naturally.  Divine transmission can happen too.

Spirituality, intellect and mental faculties can also be taught, trained, developed in a systemic manner. It is just that there are not many people on the entire planet capable of doing that. So a lot of people are forced to do self-found path, which usually is rather shallow and does not go far ahead.

It is much easier to teach and learn something tangible like martial arts or hatha yoga, rather than something abstract and mental, like spellcasting or arcane magic.
 

On 01.03.2025 at 8:05 AM, -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- said:

So how seriously do you take your cultivation? Like an all star Broadway show, or the local Christmas pantomime in the village hall?

Laughed from that. If people think they can find someone to spend time, effort and expertise on them for free or for the price of an entertainment ticket they are utterly delusional.
 

On 28.02.2025 at 5:03 AM, johndoe2012 said:

One milestone is peace of mind in daily living, no triggers at all appearing, a completely silent mind, not from suppression. 

 

Fairly simple to evaluate. You don't need a teacher for that? 

Self-evaluation defeats the whole point of milestone achievement because humans are inherently biased toward themselves. If someone seeks personal development, they will inevitably start projecting what they want to see and convince themselves that they possess those qualities. Especially after they spend some time and effort on this.
 

Even this forum is filled with people who claim to be kind, morally upright, understanding, and compassionate, traits highly valued in traditions like Taoism or Buddhism. There are entire threads and sections of forums designed for self-praise and mutual approval, where people circle around each other, declaring themselves fantastic human beings with countless merits.
 

However, if these qualities are not objectively checked and verified, and they usually are not because most people do not belong to a strict temple or a real-life school, and no one would bother to waste their time and energy putting someone through harsh conditions to test abstract qualities. As a result, these self-proclaimed traits hold little real value. In truth, what you think about yourself is irrelevant.

A drug addict who smokes hallucinogens may believe themselves to be many special things. Early meditation practices usually work in a very similar way.

Your self-perception does not equate to objective reality. If you think you are a very smart person, it may influence how you feel about yourself, positively or negatively, but it will do nothing to help you pass exams.

There are books about how to feel yourself "Healthy", thousands of positive reviews of happy readers who got "Healthy" practicing those methods, but then they felt healthy and suddenly died. Why did this happen?
 

There are many fraudulent cultivation systems and teachers who teach you how to think positively about yourself. This is not a cultivation system. This is not an esoteric system. This is "scamgong" nonsense, spread by scammers for fools.

There are no victims here, people simply are not interested in finding or search for truth, nor they are willing to accept it.
 

In reality, a small trigger can transform someone who sees themselves as kind, benevolent, compassionate, or even enlightened into a psychotic madman. I have seen too many such cases to count. I would never trust or take seriously what people say about themselves in public forums.
 

You go around here, and everyone claims to be ascended or enlightened, yet somehow they have never been able to see a real energy form with their own eyes. It is like saying you are a trillionaire but having to ride the free bus your entire life because you could never afford any other form of transport.
 

This is why mental health is so important, and why a fundamental approach to training is equally critical.
 

I will give you another example from the physical world. You buy a water hose for your house. It looks fairly good and shiny, with no signs of damage or wear. It is brand new. The seller says it is the best in the world, backed by glorious advertising. You put it to work under pressure, and it explodes into pieces. It cannot handle the pressure. It was not even made to handle the pressure.
 

There are no fragile people among cultivators. Is it a milestone? It is experience, countless tests and checks, massive pressure that would kill untrained individual on spot.

 

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

@Neirong I also think a lot of people are missing the point of the thread. The original question was “Why were the highest spiritual teachings kept hidden/secret?” not “Should you learn from a teaching or random texts found online?”

 

So, to answer the first question:

 

1) The average untrained person would not understand the importance of the teachings

 

2) The teaching could be dangerous to the average untrained person who’s body or mind is not developed enough to handle it

 

3) The teaching is kept hidden so the wrong people don’t abuse it and use it to harm others

 

[johndoe2012]

Everyone knows when they have a silent mind if they are being honest. There is simply just silence. 

 

Everyone already knows if they are being triggered. Life will show you. 

 

Your dreams will show you your subconscious in full glory. 

[Master Logray]

4 hours ago, -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- said:

@Neirong I also think a lot of people are missing the point of the thread. The original question was “Why were the highest spiritual teachings kept hidden/secret?” not “Should you learn from a teaching or random texts found online?”

 

 

Actually the term highest spiritual teachings is not defined, which makes it somewhat meaningless.  The highest teaching like love, faith, emptiness are totally open.  Most of the Taoist secret teaching in cultivation and some magical secrets are not the highest teaching at all.  

[Lairg]

My own observation is that spiritual powers arise from relationships with non-physical entities.

 

There are adverse, neutral and positive entities.  The more positive the entity the fussier it is.

 

The challenge for the human is learning to control, refine and align its personality and spiritual structures so that great positive beings will partner with the human

 

Humans that have such  partnerships do not say much in public 

 

 

[Neirong]

4 hours ago, -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- said:

I also think a lot of people are missing the point of the thread. The original question was “Why were the highest spiritual teachings kept hidden/secret?” not “Should you learn from a teaching or random texts found online?”

 

So, to answer the first question:

 

1) The average untrained person would not understand the importance of the teachings

 

2) The teaching could be dangerous to the average untrained person who’s body or mind is not developed enough to handle it

 

3) The teaching is kept hidden so the wrong people don’t abuse it and use it to harm others

Exactly,
 

 I see it all as connected factors.

1. Teachings may not be secret, but people often cannot find them, either because they disregard and disrespect the teachings through their own volition or because they seek a "resonance." They fail to consider that a resonance for someone just starting out could very well stem from negative qualities or imperfections. Some people want their ego to be stroked the "right" way to accept teachings, and as a result, they end up falling into destructive cults.

2. Secondly, there’s the issue of fluff and noise. When you search for a teaching, you’ll find hundreds of options, some even using similar names. It takes experience and connections to discern which one is genuine and which one is a waste of time.

3. It’s also true that in education with levels and grades, you must complete the previous levels before being given access to the next one. This naturally filters out many people, as it’s not just a matter of paying for a seminar or listening to a lecture. You have to put in the work, achieve results, and make progress before you’re allowed to proceed further.

Similarly, you can’t enroll in a university program without first completing school or equivalent institutions.

I simply cannot teach or practice many things with students until they develop their third eye, ESP abilities, strong energy sensitivity, mental resilience, visualization skills, concentration, and many other co-factors or skills.

 

3 hours ago, johndoe2012 said:

Everyone knows

You are making a lot of assumptions on behalf of everyone. The world is not some idealistic, romantic fantasy. In general, passing down evaluations opens the door to cheating. For every person who is honest with themselves, there will be a dozen who deceive themselves, and over time, that small error will grow. A minor mistake left unchecked early on can lead to dramatic consequences later.
 

You build a "castle" of spiritual development, but if you make incorrect measurements at the very beginning, it means that after decades, you may have to tear down the entire structure and start over from scratch.
 

The permanent cessation of internal dialogue is a good thing. Even if it is not used in spiritual training, it would significantly improve quality of life. This is not difficult to test through meditative practices.
 

The example is simple. A still surface of water represents a silent mind. Even muddy or dirty water can become still under the right conditions, given enough time. However, if you apply pressure or shake the glass, the mud will cloud the perception channels, and the "quality" of internal silence will vanish like a mirage.

While two people may maintain a silent mind for a long time, the difference between a glass full of mud and one that has been cleared of it is like the difference between heaven and earth.

[Master Logray]

2 hours ago, Lairg said:

My own observation is that spiritual powers arise from relationships with non-physical entities.

 

There are adverse, neutral and positive entities.  The more positive the entity the fussier it is.

 

The challenge for the human is learning to control, refine and align its personality and spiritual structures so that great positive beings will partner with the human

 

Humans that have such  partnerships do not say much in public 

 

 

 

This structure of things is very good. 

[Cobie]

On 02/03/2025 at 5:29 AM, Nungali said:

"  agape toous echthrous humon " 

That’s the Christian meaning (ἀγαπᾶτε τοὺς ἐχθροὺς ὑμῶν love your enemies Mathew 5:44)

afaik, modern Greeks use αγάπη for the love of a husband for his wife. 
 

 

Edited Tuesday at 12:38 AM by Cobie

[Cobie]

14 hours ago, Lairg said:

… Humans that have such  partnerships do not say much in public 

Exactly. 
 

知之者弗言  Those who understand it say nothing about it; 
言之者弗知  those who talk about it do not understand it. (DDJ 56)

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 12:38 AM by Cobie

[ChiDragon]

11 hours ago, Cobie said:

Exactly. 
 

知之者弗言  Those who understand it say nothing about it; 
言之者弗知  those who talk about it do not understand it. (DDJ 56)

 

 

The one who knows doesn't speak.

The one who speaks doesn't know.

[Cobie]

15 hours ago, Cobie said:

知之者弗言  Those who understand it say nothing about it; 
言之者弗知  those who talk about it do not understand it. (DDJ 56)

 

4 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

The one who knows doesn't speak.

The one who speaks doesn't know.

 

Nah, us 'knowing' people also like to have a good natter occcasionally. It’s just the “it” topic that we keep quiet about. 

 

 

[Nungali]

20 hours ago, Cobie said:

That’s the Christian meaning (ἀγαπᾶτε τοὺς ἐχθροὺς ὑμῶν love your enemies Mathew 5:44)

afaik, modern Greeks use αγάπη for the love of a husband for his wife. 
 

 

 

Yes, you tend to find 'Chrisitan meanings ' in Mathew .  The Bible isn't modern Greek .   Old Bob cited it in Christian context , but Lairg ... well, did what Lairg does .... I thought to clarify for Old Bob 's   c o n t e x t . 

 

My other point is , in English we have one word love ( hence , Lairg's floundering with the term and unable to define it by itself -  classical Greek has many terms (including some in the Bible ) that English translates into 'love'  - English does not specify the type of love within the word itself  ..... could be agape , could be philia or even  philautia.   However in this context  it is not 'heart love' or  liver love'  or other made up terms , it is clearly   

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agape

 

[Nungali]

20 hours ago, Cobie said:

Exactly. 
 

知之者弗言  Those who understand it say nothing about it; 
言之者弗知  those who talk about it do not understand it. (DDJ 56)

 

 

 

'Fourth power of the Sphinx ' .   

[Nungali]

9 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

The one who knows doesn't speak.

The one who speaks doesn't know.

 

and the one who writes in white 

 

shall not be seen  

[dwai]

On 2/24/2025 at 7:14 AM, doc benway said:

 

When you “get it,” referring to realizing, direct understanding of, “the highest spiritual teachings” in Tibetan Buddhism, you realize it’s been staring you in the face the entire time. There’s never been a moment you were a hair’s breadth away from it, and yet you just couldn’t see it. If your karma is not right, you won’t get it, no matter how it is presented.

It's the same Advaita Vedanta. 

[Cobie]

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

and the one who writes in white shall not be seennot be seen  

Your ‘white bits’ are showing on the ‘all activity’ stream. 
 

 

Edited Tuesday at 10:18 PM by Cobie