Clockwise x Counter Clockwise Rotations in LDT

[Lukks]

I honestly don't get it.

 

I learned that counterclockwise rotations disperse the energy we gathered during practice.

 

So what's the point of those exercises AFTER qigong that teaches  us to do first 36 counterclockwise rotations and then 36 clockwise rotations?

 

Is there another explanation to that?

 

I've only been doing 36 clockwise rotations after practice because I feel it makes more sense, I also found systems that only teaches the clockwise rotation so I don't feel I'm 100% wrong, but maybe I'm missing something.

[silent thunder]

Energy flows... how do you know (how can you know with certainty) that what you learned which lead you to this assumption about flow is the full and whole expression of truth in energetic flow in all its manifestations and forms? 

 

[Lairg]

I was taught by a dowser to stir my drinking water clockwise then anticlockwise for a bit longer.

 

It seems that the DNA molecule with its two spirals (in the common depiction) has a clockwise stream from spirit to matter and an anticlockwise stream from matter to spirit.  Hence stirring the water a bit more anticlockwise

 

Thus the Freemasons traditionally perambulate clockwise to bring spirit down to matter in their temples (for the good of all) while Wiccans (from what I have seen) perambulate anticlockwise to raise their own consciousnesses.

 

[markern]

4 hours ago, Lairg said:

I was taught by a dowser to stir my drinking water clockwise then anticlockwise for a bit longer.

 

It seems that the DNA molecule with its two spirals (in the common depiction) has a clockwise stream from spirit to matter and an anticlockwise stream from matter to spirit.  Hence stirring the water a bit more anticlockwise

 

Thus the Freemasons traditionally perambulate clockwise to bring spirit down to matter in their temples (for the good of all) while Wiccans (from what I have seen) perambulate anticlockwise to raise their own consciousnesses.

 

Very interesting

[markern]

I have no idea. All I can say is that when I learnt to do both ways from Chia back in the day it felt like the energy sort of got more solidly locked in. I stopped doing it after a while though and usually gather in simpler ways. 

[Master Logray]

14 hours ago, Lukks said:

I honestly don't get it.

 

I learned that counterclockwise rotations disperse the energy we gathered during practice.

 

So what's the point of those exercises AFTER qigong that teaches  us to do first 36 counterclockwise rotations and then 36 clockwise rotations?

 

Is there another explanation to that?

 

I've only been doing 36 clockwise rotations after practice because I feel it makes more sense, I also found systems that only teaches the clockwise rotation so I don't feel I'm 100% wrong, but maybe I'm missing something.

 

When you say 36 rotations, what do you mean, the Chi or your visualization or coupled with body movements?

 

If the system you are following says 36 turns both sides clockwise then better to follow it fully.    I think it is to avoid determining which way is clockwise or anti-clockwise.  If you look at your navel, or looking outside, or looking from another person's view, the term clockwise is uncertain.   So both directions turns are safe.  

 

While Neidan has a 36/24 turns, or other vertical turns and so on.   If you go to a temple, turning wheels or cleansing, anti-clockwise is for removing bad energies and clockwise strengthen positive energies. 

 

 

 

 

[Lukks]

1 hour ago, Master Logray said:

 

When you say 36 rotations, what do you mean, the Chi or your visualization or coupled with body movements?

 

 

Oh I forgot to give this detail.

 

The rotations are made touching the skin around the navel(big circles)with the palm of the right hand, with left hand on the back of the right hand.

 

36x counter clockwise then 36x clockwise

 

This is done as a closing exercise after qigong

Edited February 19 by Lukks

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

On 19/02/2025 at 12:56 AM, Lukks said:

I honestly don't get it.

 

I learned that counterclockwise rotations disperse the energy we gathered during practice.

 

So what's the point of those exercises AFTER qigong that teaches  us to do first 36 counterclockwise rotations and then 36 clockwise rotations?

 

Is there another explanation to that?

 

I've only been doing 36 clockwise rotations after practice because I feel it makes more sense, I also found systems that only teaches the clockwise rotation so I don't feel I'm 100% wrong, but maybe I'm missing something.

 

Where did you learn this?

[Master Logray]

On 2/20/2025 at 12:51 AM, Lukks said:

Oh I forgot to give this detail.

 

The rotations are made touching the skin around the navel(big circles)with the palm of the right hand, with left hand on the back of the right hand.

 

36x counter clockwise then 36x clockwise

 

This is done as a closing exercise after qigong

 

I just feel 72 times is a bit long, unless you have a quite long time practice and are full of Chi to return to Dantien.  Otherwise 72 rotations plus other cooling off exercises would take too much time, or becomes a second set of Gong.

 

[Lairg]

On 2/19/2025 at 3:30 PM, Lairg said:

I was taught by a dowser to stir my drinking water clockwise then anticlockwise for a bit longer.

 

 

These days I can feel when the elemental energies change - so I know when I have stirred enough in that direction

 

 

[Nungali]

Shaken and not stirred . 

 

All this talk of Daoists and pagans doing things clock wise and anti clockwise   , cause, ya know, they all had clocks back then didn't they ?  

 

How typical .... people doing 'clock wise or not '  without understanding  it  ..... what the hell has a clock's  hands movement   direction  got to do with energy . 

 

WAKE UP !   

 

.... and check out  the meaning  'deosil and widdershins ' , then  try again  ( to make sense of directions ) . 

 

and if you still lack comprehension , watch yer water go down the plughole . 

 

 

Water stirring ?    That was a big part of my research and job with  BAA    (Biodynamics ) 

 

 

[old3bob]

 

not Taoist but when setting up an American Indian tipi the initial tripod poles and then other poles are bound with rope at their junction by a person working the rope around them clockwise.   Btw the tipi door is traditionally facing eastward to the rising sun,  and the clockwise direction of working the rope is called "going to the sun".   

 

 

counter clockwise and clockwise

Edited Sunday at 02:28 AM by old3bob

[Lairg]

A modern version

 

[Nungali]

[Master Logray]

18 hours ago, Nungali said:

Shaken and not stirred . 

 

All this talk of Daoists and pagans doing things clock wise and anti clockwise   , cause, ya know, they all had clocks back then didn't they ?  

 

How typical .... people doing 'clock wise or not '  without understanding  it  ..... what the hell has a clock's  hands movement   direction  got to do with energy . 

 

WAKE UP !   

 

.... and check out  the meaning  'deosil and widdershins ' , then  try again  ( to make sense of directions ) . 

 

and if you still lack comprehension , watch yer water go down the plughole . 

 

 

Water stirring ?    That was a big part of my research and job with  BAA    (Biodynamics ) 

 

 

 

Clockwise or not is the more modern description.  In the old days they described the movement as left, up, right, down, left and so on.

 

[old3bob]

 

Yang/yin symbol derived from observing clockwise rotation of the of the sun making shadow:

 

"By observing the sky, recording the Dipper's positions, and watching the shadow of the Sun from an 8-foot (Chinese measurement) pole, ancient Chinese determined the four directions. The direction of sunrise is the East; the direction of sunset is the West; the direction of the shortest shadow is the South and the direction of the longest shadow is the North. At night, the direction of the Polaris star is the North.

They noticed the seasonal changes. When the Dipper points to the East, it's spring; when the Dipper points to the South, it's summer; when the Dipper points to the West, it's fall; when the Dipper points to the North, it's winter.

When observing the cycle of the Sun, ancient Chinese simply used a pole about 8 feet long, posted at right angles to the ground and recorded positions of the shadow. Then they found the length of a year is around 365.25 days. They even divided the year's cycle into 24 Segments, including the Vernal Equinox, Autumnal Equinox, Summer Solstice and Winter Solstice, using the sunrise and Dipper positions.

They used six concentric circles, marked the 24-Segment points, divided the circles into 24 sectors and recorded the length of shadow every day. The shortest shadow is found on the day of Summer Solstice. The longest shadow is found on the day of Winter Solstice. After connecting each lines and dimming Yin Part from Summer Solstice to Winter Solstice, the Sun chart looks like below. The ecliptic angle 23 26' 19'' of the Earth can be seen in this chart."

 

Edited Sunday at 04:13 PM by old3bob

[Nungali]

4 hours ago, Master Logray said:

 

Clockwise or not is the more modern description.  In the old days they described the movement as left, up, right, down, left and so on.

 

 

Load of rubbish  ! 

 

None of that describes  circular movement , so you are wrong ;   the terms where deosil and widdershins . Again ... you thought people back then had a clock ?   You think they chose which circular direction to go with or against based on a clock ? Please ! 

 

and  deosil and widdershins change  according to what hemisphere  you are in.   But a clocks hands  always move in the same direction . 

 

 

 

[silent thunder]

Appreciate you Nungali.

but for those without ears... what's there to hear?

[Nungali]

.... and ... this is one of the big mistakes people make in the south .   

 

You get people attributing the  south , in the southern hemisphere , to fire ! People circumnambulating  in reverse  and other rubbish that indicates they are following instructions without a clue of their meaning . 

[Nungali]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W24-sQcpgAw

[Lukks]

On 20/02/2025 at 1:28 PM, -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- said:

 

Where did you learn this?

Is that a controversial thing?

But honestly, this is a great question. Now trying to remember I really can't, I feel like I read it from two or three different sources and they all said the same thing so I just believed it. Maybe different Masters will think different, but I learned it this way.

 

On 22/02/2025 at 2:25 PM, Master Logray said:

 

I just feel 72 times is a bit long, unless you have a quite long time practice and are full of Chi to return to Dantien.  Otherwise 72 rotations plus other cooling off exercises would take too much time, or becomes a second set of Gong.

 

It's actually pretty fast to do the rotations. But I get your point, I spend like 5mins in "ending practices" so it's like a short qigong at the end.

 

On 23/02/2025 at 12:44 PM, Master Logray said:

 

Clockwise or not is the more modern description.  In the old days they described the movement as left, up, right, down, left and so on.

 

Yep exactly that's why I used these terms, they're easier to understand and are also the terms used in most books nowadays, I don't get his reaction.

 

 

On 22/02/2025 at 6:21 PM, Nungali said:

Shaken and not stirred . 

 

All this talk of Daoists and pagans doing things clock wise and anti clockwise   , cause, ya know, they all had clocks back then didn't they ?  

 

How typical .... people doing 'clock wise or not '  without understanding  it  ..... what the hell has a clock's  hands movement   direction  got to do with energy . 

 

WAKE UP !   

 

.... and check out  the meaning  'deosil and widdershins ' , then  try again  ( to make sense of directions ) . 

 

and if you still lack comprehension , watch yer water go down the plughole . 

 

 

Water stirring ?    That was a big part of my research and job with  BAA    (Biodynamics ) 

 

 

Bro calm down.

These are just terms most commonly used nowadays to refer to the circular movements. A lot of

the most recent books use these. No one is saying they had clocks back then. I get your point but I can't see the problem here. I know you will rage again and laugh at me but ok what can I do, I'm trying to be polite.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 18 hours ago by Lukks

[Lairg]

On 2/23/2025 at 6:46 AM, Lairg said:

These days I can feel when the elemental energies change - so I know when I have stirred enough in that direction

 

It hardly matters to me whether the directions are thought to be related to planetary motions rather than the DNA geometry.

 

 

[old3bob]

 

if I remember correctly Hinduism had (mystical meaning) depictions of both a clockwise and counter-clockwise swastika symbol.   (and of course the Nazi's co-opted the symbol)

 

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

9 hours ago, Lukks said:

Is that a controversial thing?

But honestly, this is a great question. Now trying to remember I really can't, I feel like I read it from two or three different sources and they all said the same thing so I just believed it. Maybe different Masters will think different, but I learned it this way.

It’s not a controversial thing. It’s quite important actually. 
 

It just boggles my mind that people spend loads of time practicing things they aren’t sure about or know the purpose of, especially from random bits of info from the internet.

 

 

[Master Logray]

On 2/24/2025 at 4:19 AM, Nungali said:

 

Load of rubbish  ! 

 

None of that describes  circular movement , so you are wrong ;   the terms where deosil and widdershins . Again ... you thought people back then had a clock ?   You think they chose which circular direction to go with or against based on a clock ? Please ! 

 

and  deosil and widdershins change  according to what hemisphere  you are in.   But a clocks hands  always move in the same direction . 

 

 

 

 

The circular directional turns pre-dates the clock face was invented (said to be 11th century).