Freedom

[NorthWide]

So, some countries have freedom.

 

Why, do you ask?

 

Because if you forCe beliefs on people they rebel.

 

Can you imagine being told what you should accept, what the truth is and how you should behave?

 

What if the opposite was true? This is freedom of speech and religion. So, if you want your own beliefs... I would fight for that. Otherwise the next generation will decide everything for you. Note I didn't mention artificial intelligence because it already tries to do this. If you don't believe me test it out. You can't get aNy of the majority of LLMs (AI) to agree that people haVe the right to belieVe what they waNt.

[doc benway]

2 hours ago, NorthWide said:

Can you imagine being told what you should accept, what the truth is and how you should behave?

 

I don’t have to imagine it.

Looking back at my education, I see very little but indoctrination. 

Looking at the current state of the world, I see very little information that is not propaganda. 

None of this is accidental and it exists even in “free” countries.

Priming us from early childhood makes us more pliable as adults.

[Neirong]

5 hours ago, NorthWide said:

some countries have freedom.

Not really, people who believe themselves to be free, are usually the most enslaved ones.

 

5 hours ago, NorthWide said:

Because if you forCe beliefs on people they rebel.

You don't need to force, you can indoctrinate, when you control the media, it is easy to do so

 

[doc benway]

What I think is important is that we have the capacity and willingness to really look at our beliefs, where they come from, what they mean, and who they benefit. Then equally important to be open to new possibilities, even those that seem far fetched or implausible. 

[NorthWide]

Looking back... THeoretiCally:

 

1. If a person was their own 'free moral agent'(an unpopular Bible verse, contrary to most sects which indoctrinate) this would mean that a person coming of age would be responsible for their own learning and developed knowledge outside their formative years.

 

2. The implications of: you are responsible yourself for your own outcome to learn to think for yourself is quite reasonable.

 

Lets contraSt with Nature vs. Nurture in pSyChology:

 

Nature - Is tHe preMiSe that an eNtity Cannot ChaNge and its ingraiNed traitS are unaffeCted By tHe ecology of its environmeNt.

 

Nurture - is the premise that an eNtity or person is priMariLy deterMiNed By its enVironmeNt inStead of its quaLities.

 

Obviously neither one or tHe other is entirely true. A person that is DeterMined to learn will learn of their own volition despite the circumStanCeS. Yet a person who seeks instaNt gratification and seeks to fulfill desires will not learn.

On theSe accounts and situations it seems to me that learniNg is not an eCology or environment proBlem.

 

Literally, what I am saying is that, through reasonable experience, if I was Hitler who was cloNed and giVen the Best upBringing and family life, I would still do the thiNgs I do.

God makes Crooked thiNgs.

Only God makes crooked things straight.

Let God Be praiSed. AMen.

 

Naturally, I am not speaking for anyone. That is why I say:

They haVe eyes But they do not see.

THey haVe ears but they do Not hear.

SuCh is that geNeration until it is coMplete.

 

There is no valid sect of Christianity beCauSe they don't follow BibliCal rules. Ecology (nurture) or Nature?

A person could simply read the BiBle and eVaDe the majority of ChriStian myths, others go to Church onCe a week. This is alSo a Nature proBlem.

 

If all of these thiNgs are a problem of inheirent nature, then the majority of what was taught in school was wrong aNyway. Who would know tHe differenCe?

 

Lets look at this again in a forum situation. How maNy times does it happen that a post replied to is not fully read or understood resulting in commuNication Breakdown? Quite often in fact. ENough that we know learning Can neVer be an eCology issue.

 

Its like how alan watts sees it.

It like the VerSe from Time By Pink Floyd.

"Noone told you when to run... You missed the startiNg gun"

 

If eduCation is only 35% effectiVe, then it isn't eduCation's fault. It is whoeVer it is and they own it, we don't. Its Not our part to plaCe blaMe except thoSe who chooSe not to learn.

 

As it was written: there weRe those who's hearts were harDeNed and they were swallowed up by the Red Sea.

 

Education is only as effeCtiVe as the indiVidual so, indoCtrination doesn't work.

 

How maNy people haVe you Met throw up their hands in fruStratioN and say "I'm going to heaVen", eVen though we know theRe is NotHing that speCifiCally Says the righteous go to heaVen? THere is no deVils advoCate either...

[Lairg]

3 hours ago, doc benway said:

What I think is important is that we have the capacity and willingness to really look at our beliefs, where they come from, what they mean, and who they benefit.

 

Many years ago I switched from sciences to economics.  

 

Several times each day I would find that I was about to do something ordinary and I would stop and think about the assumptions behind   the action.    And I could not believe how stupid were the assumptions I was using - having been taught those by parents, religion and school.

 

For about 9 months I felt like I was in free fall.

 

Eventually my assumptions stabilized for a couple of years and then the process started again - but more gently

 

These days I consider every belief as an hypothesis awaiting a metaphysical experiment

 

 

[NorthWide]

4 hours ago, Lairg said:

These days I consider every belief as an hypothesis awaiting a metaphysical experiment

 

 

 

Ideas are... Well liKe bricks.

Some are More developed and refined than others. 

A BeryllIum Hammer? An aluMiNum chisel? Some may be more spot on and effective than others.

 

Some Ideas are like Drugs, if eVerything is the Same, the mind BeComes aNgry... Noodlelaugh.

 

Edited 7 hours ago by NorthWide

[Lairg]

1 hour ago, NorthWide said:

Ideas are... Well liKe bricks.

 

That is certainly true on the densest levels of the mental plane.  That is why it is so hard to change the thinking of a dense thinker.

 

At transpersonal mental levels, ideas are more like intelligent entities.  Creative relationships are invited.

 

 

 

 

[Sanity Check]

21 hours ago, NorthWide said:

So, some countries have freedom.

 

Why, do you ask?

 

Because if you forCe beliefs on people they rebel.

 

Can you imagine being told what you should accept, what the truth is and how you should behave?

 

What if the opposite was true? This is freedom of speech and religion. So, if you want your own beliefs... I would fight for that. Otherwise the next generation will decide everything for you. Note I didn't mention artificial intelligence because it already tries to do this. If you don't believe me test it out. You can't get aNy of the majority of LLMs (AI) to agree that people haVe the right to belieVe what they waNt.

 

 

Freedom isn't defined by geographical borders.

 

Rather the personal development and choices of motivated individuals.

 

Those who invest time and effort in themselves to become independent are usually free.

 

While those who cannot find it within themselves to focus on relevant topics usually never attain a relative degree of freedom.

 

Rather than an exterior conflict. Freedom is more internalized.