Before Talking To The Teacher: Observe Yourself

[johndoe2012]

From Namkhai Norbu 

 

Quote

Before talking to the teacher it is better to observe yourself a bit, in that way you might find the answer for yourself. It is better to be one’s own teacher or master rather than assigning this job to someone else. That is why the teacher, and above all a Dzogchen teacher, teaches us to observe ourselves and to discover our own condition, and always asks us all to become responsible for ourselves. Why do teachers ask these things? It is not because they are worried about being bothered, but because they know very well that always turning to one’s teacher is not a solution. The solution lies in observing ourselves and resolving our own problems by ourselves. Then, if we have no way of finding a solution, the teacher can certainly help us. If everyone did this it would be much easier.

 

[Tommy]

Thank you for your thoughts about this.

So when teachers talk about self observation, don't teachers talk about mindfulness? What is mindfulness? Google defines it as, ...

"Mindfulness is a practice of being fully present and connected to oneself, without getting caught up in automatic thoughts and reactions. 

 

 

• Paying attention to the present moment
• Observing thoughts and feelings as they arise
• Accepting them without reacting or judging
• Cultivating a non-judgmental attitude
• Focusing on the breath or other sensory experiences
• Returning to the present moment when distractions occur 
   

In essence, mindfulness is a practice of being fully present and connected to oneself, without getting caught up in automatic thoughts and reactions. "

 

So, I would say that being mindful is self observation with the added focus of not identifying with the thoughts or emotions that may arise thru out the day. Self observation is fine but if one loses oneself in the moment then where is the benefit of self observation? So, teachers are needed along the way as well as a sangha.

[doc benway]

If we have the good fortune to connect with a teacher who has truly “gone before” and demonstrates mastery, walks the walk, I think it’s invaluable to learn as much as we can, to observe as thoroughly as we can, while we have the chance. A good teacher will let us know in no uncertain terms when it is time for us to fly on our own. We may think we know when we’re ready as well, and we may or may not be accurate. Either way, I think it is fine to follow our instinct, even if we prove to be wrong. We will learn something either way.

 

I had the experience with both my neijia/neigong teacher and my Bön teacher. I tended to be a bit dependent on both and took their queues when they came. After teaching for a while and coming to him periodically with challenging questions from students, I remember my taiji/neigong teacher telling me something like, ‘It’s your turn to figure it out now. You can’t depend on me forever.’ It felt very harsh at the time. I didn’t feel quite ready to be the “authority” but him pushing back gave me the confidence I needed to accept that authority, whether it felt warranted or not. When my Bön teacher pushed back, it was similar. I would email him experiences and questions and one day he said something like, ‘As much as I like to help, I’m very busy and you need to learn where to look for your own answers. You know where to look, you need to trust that.’ Now, whenever a question or uncertainty comes up I simply stay with it, not pushing it away or trying to figure it out, just being with the question, with the uncertainty. If I am quiet enough inside and open enough to the subtle, inner winds, the answer is nearly always already there and usually in the voice and aura of my teachers. If the answer isn’t there, I have learned to be OK with that too. With time it comes and if it does not, perhaps it’s not something I need at the moment.

[old3bob]

right do not lean too much on a teacher,  which is not cool.

 

then again our ego's can not see our own ego's very well but some one else often can....and point same out.

[doc benway]

Many years ago my karate sensei told me to sign up for a black belt test.

I told him I wasn't ready.

He got pissed, and he never got angry.

He said something like, ‘You think you know better than me whether or not you’re ready? Sign up!'

We can’t always see ourselves clearly and we can have a much better picture if we can also see ourselves through the eyes of others.

This is one of the values of interacting on this forum for me.

It’s taught me a lot about myself.

[johndoe2012]

7 hours ago, Tommy said:

So when teachers talk about self observation, don't teachers talk about mindfulness? What is mindfulness?

 

In Dzogchen context, a second step is needed, observe 'who' is mindful. Otherwise you won't penetrate duality. 

[Tommy]

2 hours ago, johndoe2012 said:

 

In Dzogchen context, a second step is needed, observe 'who' is mindful. Otherwise you won't penetrate duality. 

I think the question of, "Who is mindful?" is much like the Koan, "What is MU?" the answer is there just out of reach. Try as much as I might, I can never reach it. 

 

Another Koan popped up while I was sitting. It was the question, "Does a dog have Buddha nature?".  So, sitting there, it came to me that my awareness is not unique and must be the same as everyone or everything. But, to say yes then how would a dog find Buddha nature as it seems only humans have that ability. To say no then it is to deny that awareness or Buddha nature does exist in a dog. Again I am stuck. 

 

So, yeah, otherwise I won't penetrate duality. Haven't yet.

[old3bob]

 

kind of a trick question, change to ,"can a dog fully realize Buddha nature?) , then there should be no problemo.

 

 

[doc benway]

4 hours ago, Tommy said:

I think the question of, "Who is mindful?" is much like the Koan, "What is MU?" the answer is there just out of reach. Try as much as I might, I can never reach it.

 

There’s an important difference. 

He did not say “Who is mindful?”

There is no question being asked or answer expected.

Observe ‘who’ is mindful.

 

Look directly at who is looking, no question or answer there, just look directly. ‘Who’ is behind my name and face and profession and thoughts-feelings !  What is there left or left to do, when there are no more designations, not even who..

 

Rest the body, speech, and mind and just be open.

 

Look for it in stillness of the body,  in silence of inner and outer voice and narrative, and in the experience of spaciousness, openness of the mind and heart.

 

If you look properly, you will see.

 

It is always there, you can never move away from it. But it needs to be pointed out by someone who knows how to point, the one that goes before, because it is too habitually overlooked, too unfamiliar, too simple. Some see it spontaneously, others not, and it’s always crystal clear and open, with the potential for giving rise to all appearances and experiences, the Great Perfection.

 

 

This is also where “What is nothing (MU)?” will take ‘you’ if you take enough time with it. What is nothing exactly? The question eludes and exhausts the conceptual mind and in a flash you see what is always there, where thoughts and feelings come from and where they go and what is left when they have passed, if you are quiet and open enough. But it looks like ‘nothing’ because none of the labels work, the eye can’t see itself. So it’s called empty. But it’s not absence or non-existence because it’s all playing out here and now, so vivid and present with, or without ‘who’

just leave everything just as it is.

 

And the thoughts and emotions, they’ll be back.. And you know ‘who’ will be back, already is I’d wager. And so it goes 

and you’ll notice, and reconnect with the stillness, silence and spaciousness 

over and again until it is more than familiar, until it is trusted, Refuge.

 

That’s one way to practice.

 

Edited 4 hours ago by doc benway