New Age Spiritual Sources - Good/Bad

[Turnip]

There are many new healing energies and practices descending down to Earth at this time it seems. Systems, lineages, sources coming out of the shadows that were on Earth for a long time, and entirely new things being channeled through supposedly divine beings.

 

The reasoning being that we are at a kind of bottleneck emergency situation. Like, we need to deal with our shit, it’s now or never, so we’re getting more help with it. The planetary consciousness is quickening. 
 

At the same time, what could also be happening, is we’ve fucked shit up to such a grotesque degree (specifically regarding the environment, climate change, nuclear weapons, etc) that we’ve created a sort of portal of karmic access for predatory beings to kind of finish us off so to speak. An ecological balancing, natural selection. 
 

Maybe both are probably going on. There could be beings that want us to go extinct and destroy ourselves (which isn’t necessarily a bad thing, it could be in a weird way for our best interest, considering how much harm we cause ourselves, animals, and the Earth), and other beings that want us to survive and continue to evolve and grow. 
 

Which brings me to the practical question of, what should we think of these new things coming through? Many people would say that straying from the on-ground lineages of human teachers is dangerous, and would recommend against seemingly easier paths or shortcuts that don’t require the long dirty work that those in the past had to put in. Especially when unknown “divine” sources are supposedly involved. It could also be the case that certain practices and paths could be beneficial for the short term wellbeing of the collective, but for the deep long term growth of an individual soul, not so much. On the other hand, it does seem like stuff is really coming to the surface, people want to deal with it, shit is really picking up, and the older practices are just not high octane and intelligent enough to keep up with what is needed to actualize and integrate the emerging explosion of unconscious energies and repressed complexes that are supposedly destined to be the flood and the flooded that defines the Age of Aquarius.

 

Thoughts?

[Lairg]

1 hour ago, Turnip said:

 

Which brings me to the practical question of, what should we think of these new things coming through?

 

All teachers and all practices need to be tested.

 

For example:  visualize a particular teacher then put yourself in front of him/her.  What happens to your heart?

 

 

[Sanity Check]

2 hours ago, Turnip said:

the emerging explosion of unconscious energies and repressed complexes that are supposedly destined to be the flood and the flooded that defines the Age of Aquarius.

 

 

Observing the evolution of microchips. 

 

Old chips processed 8 bits. Later evolving to process 16 bits. 32 bits. Currently CPU's process 64 bits.

 

This evolution allowed AI chess programs to defeat human players.

 

Human evolution parallels this trend.

 

Humans started out with stone and papyrus tablets. Later evolving to books. Then radio and television. Currently processing even larger volumes of data with smartphones, laptops, PCs. 

 

As a result of trends like these, we might expect an explosion of mind.

 

 

[doc benway]

7 hours ago, Sanity Check said:

Human evolution parallels this trend.

 

Humans started out with stone and papyrus tablets. Later evolving to books. Then radio and television. Currently processing even larger volumes of data with smartphones, laptops, PCs. 

 

As a result of trends like these, we might expect an explosion of mind.

 

 

And yet wouldn’t it be beautiful if we could somehow facilitate an explosion of heart?

 

Heart and mind must be balanced in my opinion.

The lack of balance is largely responsible for our misuse of the powers of mind alone.

Spirituality for me is largely about restoring balance through opening the heart and maturing it as a refuge and a tool.

 

When looking at a spiritual source, be it new or old, my questions are, does it make people kinder and more open?

Does it cultivate empathy, honesty, and transparency?

Does it strengthen relationships or isolation?

 

Not always easy to get answers to these questions and often takes time and engagement with the view and practice. 

This is the advantage of the older, established traditions, you can see the effects over time and the kinks have been worked out. 

Newer ideas and methods are more of a risk, and our time is short as human beings on Earth, but at the end of the day, they could be just what is needed for the right person.

 

[Turnip]

11 hours ago, Sanity Check said:

 

 

Observing the evolution of microchips. 

 

Old chips processed 8 bits. Later evolving to process 16 bits. 32 bits. Currently CPU's process 64 bits.

 

This evolution allowed AI chess programs to defeat human players.

 

Human evolution parallels this trend.

 

Humans started out with stone and papyrus tablets. Later evolving to books. Then radio and television. Currently processing even larger volumes of data with smartphones, laptops, PCs. 

 

As a result of trends like these, we might expect an explosion of mind.

 

 

Yeah definitely is moving in this direction fast

[Turnip]

11 hours ago, Lairg said:

 

All teachers and all practices need to be tested.

 

For example:  visualize a particular teacher then put yourself in front of him/her.  What happens to your heart?

 

 

Thank you for this advice 

[Turnip]

3 hours ago, doc benway said:

 

And yet wouldn’t it be beautiful if we could somehow facilitate an explosion of heart?

 

Heart and mind must be balanced in my opinion.

The lack of balance is largely responsible for our misuse of the powers of mind alone.

Spirituality for me is largely about restoring balance through opening the heart and maturing it as a refuge and a tool.

 

When looking at a spiritual source, be it new or old, my questions are, does it make people kinder and more open?

Does it cultivate empathy, honesty, and transparency?

Does it strengthen relationships or isolation?

 

Not always easy to get answers to these questions and often takes time and engagement with the view and practice. 

This is the advantage of the older, established traditions, you can see the effects over time and the kinks have been worked out. 

Newer ideas and methods are more of a risk, and our time is short as human beings on Earth, but at the end of the day, they could be just what is needed for the right person.

 

Thank you, yeah. I completely agree with all of that

[forestofclarity]

People have claimed that we have more awakenings and stronger practices these days than ever before. However, looking at the apparent state of the world, I'm not convinced. I think most of the newer practices and movements tend to lull people into a false sense of spiritual realization. Even so, I would rather people practice some form of spirituality than none at all. 

 

Traditions developed their "modern" practices a few thousand years ago--- in Tantra and Dzogchen, for example, which is one reason you see more of this and less people developing very deep states of concentration and samadhi. 

 

[Jenn]

Another possibility is modern living has made us worse off spiritually, so we are not in fact reaching new, higher states, but rather have added many lower states we must now first pass through to get back to where the baseline used to be.

[Lairg]

4 hours ago, forestofclarity said:

. I think most of the newer practices and movements tend to lull people into a false sense of spiritual realization.

 

How do you test which practices are useful to which people?

 

33 minutes ago, Jenn said:

possibility is modern living has made us worse off spiritually, so we are not in fact reaching new, higher states,

 

There are certainly dark currents in human society that seek to degrade/divert groups of humans but there are also beneficial currents that seek to refine Earth humanity - to achieve its design functionality.   

 

Negative thoughts and emotions are promoted so that humans unconsciously invite darkness. 

 

 

 

 

[Turnip]

27 minutes ago, Jenn said:

Another possibility is modern living has made us worse off spiritually, so we are not in fact reaching new, higher states, but rather have added many lower states we must now first pass through to get back to where the baseline used to be.

I agree. I would say the modern mind is much more complicated and entangled than in the past. Which is the reason I’m wondering if practices and paths of the past would really be effective on the modern mind in the same way. 

[Turnip]

5 hours ago, forestofclarity said:

People have claimed that we have more awakenings and stronger practices these days than ever before. However, looking at the apparent state of the world, I'm not convinced. I think most of the newer practices and movements tend to lull people into a false sense of spiritual realization. Even so, I would rather people practice some form of spirituality than none at all. 

 

Traditions developed their "modern" practices a few thousand years ago--- in Tantra and Dzogchen, for example, which is one reason you see more of this and less people developing very deep states of concentration and samadhi. 

 

The main concern is that most of the traditional spiritual paths and practices are of the East, are collectivistic, negating of the ego, and are patriarchal, and modern psychology is moving more towards an androgynous/feminist, individualistic, and an increasingly intelligent and sophisticated ego that can be used as an expressive extension / tool of the Self, rather than something to be negated to reach Self. I’m wondering if the Divine is adjusting to this and introducing new paths. Or we’re just moving farther and farther into delusion and the traditional paths are still the most grounded in the Truth.

[Cobie]

13 minutes ago, Turnip said:

The main concern is that most of the traditional spiritual paths and practices are of the East, are collectivistic, negating of the ego, and are patriarchal …

Not to forget almost a millennium of mutilating the feet of women. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot_binding 

 

 

Edited Saturday at 11:03 PM by Cobie

[Lairg]

1 hour ago, Turnip said:

I’m wondering if the Divine is adjusting to this and introducing new paths.

 

Perhaps as we move into the age of Aquarius it is time for new wine in new bottles.

 

If so, we should see the progressive demise of many social structures and institutions.

 

For example many young Chinese are abandoning the current social system: 

 

Tang ping (Chinese: 躺平; lit. 'lying flat') is a Chinese slang neologism that describes a personal rejection of societal pressures to overwork and over-achieve, such as in the 996 working hour system, which is often regarded as a rat race with ever diminishing returns.^[1][2][3][4] Tang ping means choosing to "lie down flat and get over the beatings" by adopting a "low-desire life."

 

 

The release of useful humans from old structures and the birth of a new wave of humanity will facilitate and drive the development of new structures  - including new understandings of the inner nature of Earth humanity and propagation of more relevant spiritual practices

 

Of course many humans prefer the familiar to the new.  Such is life.

 

 

Edited Sunday at 12:14 AM by Lairg

[Turnip]

11 minutes ago, Lairg said:

 

Perhaps as we move into the age of Aquarius it is time for new wine in new bottles.

 

If so, we should see the progressive demise of many social structures and institutions.

 

For example many young Chinese are abandoning the current social system: 

 

Tang ping (Chinese: 躺平; lit. 'lying flat') is a Chinese slang neologism that describes a personal rejection of societal pressures to overwork and over-achieve, such as in the 996 working hour system, which is often regarded as a rat race with ever diminishing returns.^[1][2][3][4] Tang ping means choosing to "lie down flat and get over the beatings" by adopting a "low-desire life."

 

 

The release of useful humans from old structures and the birth of a new wave of humanity will facilitate and drive the development of new structures  - including new understandings of the inner nature of Earth humanity and propagation of more relevant spiritual practices

 

Of course many humans prefer the familiar to the new.  Such is life.

 

 

Definitely. We’re moving into a new, more fluid, more creative landscape of thought. Which is why energy healing has gotten so popular. It’s concrete yet doesn’t box you in to any ideology or conceptual structure. If spirituality is about attaining freedom of mind, structured paths and conceptual direction seems to move against that. Yet we still need to evolve somehow. 

[Sanity Check]

11 hours ago, doc benway said:

 

And yet wouldn’t it be beautiful if we could somehow facilitate an explosion of heart?

 

 

 

I think that trend is also occurring.

 

There was a woman in the news called the 100 year old virgin. Who never married and never had sex with a man. She said practically every woman she saw from childhood to adulthood was a victim of domestic abuse. Causing her to avoid men.

 

In less than 100 years, cases of domestic abuse in the USA decreased dramatically.

 

Prior to COVID in 2020 homicide rates in the country were at all time historical lows. 

 

We've witnessed significant shifts in our culture and the way we view the world. As well as how we treat each other.

 

To some degree: people have changed. For the better.

 

Although to be fair, it could also be said some nations and regions of the world are regressing and becoming worse over time.

[forestofclarity]

15 hours ago, Turnip said:

The main concern is that most of the traditional spiritual paths and practices are of the East, are collectivistic, negating of the ego, and are patriarchal, and modern psychology is moving more towards an androgynous/feminist, individualistic, and an increasingly intelligent and sophisticated ego that can be used as an expressive extension / tool of the Self, rather than something to be negated to reach Self. 

 

I actually think Western thought aligns fairly well with thought from India in ways that it does not with China or Japan. Some people find that certain Tantric expressions are less patriarchal or masculine. A lot of modern Western therapy is discovering what Buddhism has had for millenia-- in some ways, the interaction has spurred a lot of growth in psychology IME. There is a broad expression such that there are always examples and counterpoints. But ignorance doesn't arise from the East or West, and the fundamental nature is beyond male and female. So I think there's a difference between truth and culture and between therapy and spirituality.

 

Not a lot of Western therapists seem to display the signs of mastery of traditional practitioners. OTOH, a lot of traditions are not so great at dealing with the aches and pains of lay life, parenting, etc. I think modern therapy is valuable for dealing with life, but not so much for transcending the issues of birth and death. However, there's no reason to choose one or the other exclusively. Most of my teachers have said some issues are better dealt with therapy and others with spirituality. 

 

[doc benway]

3 hours ago, forestofclarity said:

and between therapy and spirituality.

 

One of my favorite spiritual teachers, Anthony Demello, speaks to this with experience and wisdom. He was a psychologist and Jesuit with a Hindu and Buddhist background, born in India. He spoke of his conflict in dealing with people who came to him for help. The psychologist in him wanted to help ease the pain whereas the spiritual guide knew they must go through the pain to experience meaningful growth and liberation.

Edited Sunday at 05:07 PM by doc benway

[Turnip]

I found a great channeling from the Law of One people channeling the being Q’uo that resonated with me regarding this topic:

 

 

“Each individual entity, each group of entities, in the end all the unity of entities, insofar as they have the capacity to activate, evaluate and judge have no capacity for logically, rationally proving any authority from the outside in. In our opinion, neither any entity’s self, higher self, nor any teacher that still speaks or thinks or considers has knowledge of the mystery of the infinite Creator.

 

By saying this we wish to establish a basis upon which we may build. The foundation of the right consideration of an entity’s position as judge of its own creation depends firstly upon there being no authority that is final. No hand or word has the master’s authority over servants of the infinite One, for the infinite One has established that in all manifested creation there be no final, provable answers. As entities discover what seem to be definitive answers, the edge or furthest limit of knowledge is pushed back, and it is discovered that beyond that new pioneering frontier of knowledge there lies still an infinite mystery.

 

Now, it is well for a student of any subject or field to do research, read, and gather tools and resources for coming to understand that field of inquiry. Those who seek along a spiritual path are not so different from those who seek to learn how to work one of your machines or learn a previously unknown skill. There is the studying, the processing of many facts into subjectively formed categories and organizations, and in the end there is [you] with a more enlightened point of view concerning the field of inquiry which has been studied.

 

We encourage those who hunger and are not yet filled by spiritual food to seek out experiences with entities visible or invisible and to read that which they consider helpful. All of the information on each page of written work, each thought from a channeling source, is to be enjoyed. However, this is not to say that all is simply to be accepted. Nor are we saying that if many things seem wrong about a source there is no good in it, for even the most inaccurate contact, dealing with the most fear-driven subjects, are attempting to serve the one infinite Creator. And those which listen to or read these perhaps wrong-headed thoughts may be offered much erroneously fearful information. Still, there is at least the gathering together for reasons of spiritual inquiry. And as this energy brings entities together to seek, so no matter how faulty the group may seem there is the effect of help from each consciousness present to each other as all form a circle of seeking.

 

There are several ways to consider how to form one’s own opinions and value them. We might suggest that when information is being evaluated the seeker stop to reflect as to which energy center or centers are being activated by this information. For instance, information which focuses upon matters of survival is driven by the instinctual energies of the red ray, [all in] the reflection, naturally, from the yellow ray physical existence. We speak of inner rays here, rather than densities.

 

If information is offered concerning the moving together of some who are different from others, or simply if there is information about groupings and joining or avoiding groups it may be seen that there are many energies of the yellow ray. And if there is information concerning this or that messiah or special chosen entity, then it must be left to the entity itself to evaluate whether the attraction of this savior is resonating with the red, the orange, and/or the yellow ray.

All of this sort of information tends not to activate or enhance the healing powers of the opened heart or green ray. It is within the more abstruse and abstract regions of theoretical considerations that the inspiration of words or thoughts might be offered which open the heart or the powers and energies of communication. And it is within the student only that the indigo ray is activated by any material whatsoever.

 

For work to be done in consciousness, the consciousness must have its attention upon doing the work. We might take a different tack in this matter of personal discrimination. Now, we are saying simply that each spiritual seeker, having its own universe, must and shall evaluate for itself all stimulus which comes into the sensory net of awareness. From the first impressions to the end of the most involved and recondite argument all that is processed by a spiritual student is accurate to that student, and the only authority is that student, for the infinite Creator Itself, while offering constant love and support, does not wish to influence the experiences of any being. All beings are free to experience what and as each chooses. This is that which is the seeker’s gift to the infinite One.

No outer authority may be considered, in our opinion, a satisfactory substitute for an individual’s inwardly moved framework of opinion. So we encourage each student to think of itself as responsible in that the will of the infinite Creator is that there be love. Each is love, and each experiences love. This is that which is the truth insofar as we know it. Putting this truth into manifestation is a task whose characteristic is polarity or apparent difference. Without this, there can be no manifestation, for love experienced as love is an eternal tautology when considered as a way of knowing as opposed to the way we grasp being[ness].

 

So each of you is sovereign—the judge and jury of those things which come to each entity’s attention. If that is accepted, then it can be seen that there is a certain desirable character, or group of characteristics, which may be attributed to a responsibly working spiritual student. The teacher known to you as Jesus the Christ spoke of this when it said to its students to be wise as serpents and innocent as doves. The serpent is a symbol for wisdom, and it is wise in apparent manifestation also. The first sense is that of the symbol. This symbol of wisdom is expressed in your cultural myth by the gift of the serpent which was making available the knowledge of good or evil. In other words, wisdom has to do with a personal ability to judge whether something is good to that person. This kind of decision is strictly personal, and cannot and should not be offered in dogmatic fashion for others.

 

The other way in which the serpent is wise is that when an enemy or possible enemy comes into hearing or sensory range the serpent removes itself cautiously. These both are good ways of being wise. When one considers the innocence of doves and asks how that can be applied to the judgment of information, we can only suggest that each entity knows of those individuals to whom all things are signs of disappointment, trouble and doom, while others with the same basic situation find much to make merry about and much to give thanks and praise for. The innocence, the purity, the untouched nature of the open and loving green-ray energy center—the open, loving, compassionate heart—can see beauty in almost any situation, for as it speaks to itself it hears the outer world.

We find that this is a good beginning upon this topic and invite further queries both now from this group and, in the future, from the one known as V. We hope that this transmission has been clear in why it refrains from offering opinions considering the validity of sources.

 

Before we leave this topic we would simply say that there is much, much of fear in any human experience. The physical vehicle is fragile, and it is known that it is mortal. Many of the fear-driven topics, which may be considered by many such as this instrument to have little effectual truth, have a truth in a larger or archetypical sense, for there is a wonderful urgency about this present moment, about this present cycle, about this present year, and so forth. These are the minutes, the last minutes, of each of your incarnations. There may be millions of these last minutes, but they can be counted. Thusly, there is a deep and natural capacity to fear, for one’s worst fears, those of annihilation, stand starkly, and without evidential answer, before each seeker’s life. At the end of that last minute of the incarnational experience, that consciousness that is the seeker goes through a door and it closes behind that entity, leaving those who are still experiencing the illusion of third density to remain ignorant of that which occurs thereafter.

 

The more compassionate way to deal with this existential fear is to realize and affirm the wonder and blessing of each present moment. If disaster or catastrophe is to be part of an entity’s destiny, it shall occur, regardless of planning attempts to protect the self from such a fate. If all is to be peaceful concerning a seeker’s last days in this illusion, so it shall be, although the seeker stands within a hundred which are slain. The attitude of gazing with a full and loving heart at whatever is occurring is the more compassionate and loving approach to the quandary of existence without answers. Appreciate and attempt to inhabit fully each moment, each minute and hour of each day of this experience, one at a time, and whatever the outer circumstances, the inner spiritual journey shall be as full of light and blessing as the experiencer can hold.”

 

 

[Lairg]

1 minute ago, Turnip said:

for the infinite One has established that in all manifested creation there be no final, provable answers.

 

Is there any proof of that statement?

 

Perhaps I will move on

 

 

[Turnip]

1 minute ago, Lairg said:

 

Is there any proof of that statement?

 

Perhaps I will move on

 

 

Good point…

[Nungali]

On 4/20/2025 at 8:45 AM, Turnip said:

I agree. I would say the modern mind is much more complicated and entangled than in the past. Which is the reason I’m wondering if practices and paths of the past would really be effective on the modern mind in the same way. 

 

Good point !   Some are clearly outdated  and designed as socio/religious  practices for Bronze Age people  and fraught with bias  and political motivations , based on conquest and oppression .

 

Some were developed  to uphold community and advancement based on co-operation and an enlightened and informed mind .  Along the way , some of both got mixed. However, although we have shown lightening fast accelerated *  advancement in some areas , in other areas parts of our psychology remains firmly established, as has so for tens of thousands of years  - these need to be addressed and the good practices that do so remain beneficial .

 

Some where around here I have some posts tracking these , I won't repeat it all here but give a brief outline of research filled in with some conclusions ; 

 

Spoiler

During the ice age lake Baikal  area ( and other places ) becomes an enclosed 'refugium' **, due to new pressures  people have to develop systems and ways of living to ensure survival - this is an a closed system under pressure  so only the best systems will work .  Not all work and become extinct , so those that did work had a system of value for human 'well being'  ... in community, of course .  Out of this came first 'Bo' a form of 'white Tengarism' or Siberian Shamanism , this eventually migrated including into the SW and eventually Central Asia  resulting in  people like  'Miwoche ' ( The Central Asian Buddha ) that went east to  (pre)  Tibet and reformed indigenous Bon (  things like, no animal sacrifice  and the removal of other unhealthy practices  replacing them with healthy ones . Also people like Zoaster that took these traditions west , to do a similar reform to the pre Zoroastrian religions of Central Asia  (again banning animal sacrifice , drug taking during religious ritual, etc )

 

The thing is some practices are bad for our psychology and some good ; some lead to peace happiness and co-operation and others the opposite  ( sometimes it is subtle and works deep in our psychology )  ;  Good or bad deeds follow good or bad mind  and set up a feedback / increase situation .

 

Anyway, I was not going to go on here about it     So I will give a simple example - making offerings and showing appreciation for what you have  is a good healthy psychological practice and gives good results . The communal meal is another example .  Zoroastrianism has a range of these practices designed to do just that - as well as animal protection rights in legislation,   That is a good example ; if you respect an animal that is a good practice  otherwise psychologically it might lead to one disrespecting other forms of life , including humans .

 

Of course the opposite existed and  evolved as well, bad and destructive practices . again I won't go on here as I have posted it all before ... but its got a lot to do with the rise of Indo-Europeans  , their domestication of the horse and the rise of 'raid and run'  cultures .

 

The same applies here with the bad practices ; if one disrespects and enslaves an animal to do work , its not a far jump to a realization ;  I could get another human to do that  !  then human slavery , conquest, capture etc .

(In Zoroastrianism and animal is to be used for only one purpose and is given reward and exchange for its  service , including a good retirement after  it can not produce anymore . 

 

 

**   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_Glacial_Maximum_refugia

 

 

On 4/19/2025 at 3:21 PM, Sanity Check said:

 

 

Observing the evolution of microchips. 

 

Old chips processed 8 bits. Later evolving to process 16 bits. 32 bits. Currently CPU's process 64 bits.

 

This evolution allowed AI chess programs to defeat human players.

 

Human evolution parallels this trend.

 

Humans started out with stone and papyrus tablets. Later evolving to books. Then radio and television. Currently processing even larger volumes of data with smartphones, laptops, PCs. 

 

*

That's the pattern ... take  human flight for example ;  probably dreamed about it for a few 10 1000 years . Then in 559   Yuan Huangtou

managed to survive his enforced kite flight .  Then in the 9th century Abbas Ibn Firnas  designed a wood silk and feathery hang glider thing , jumps off a cliff, glides , crashes but survives . Up to the late 1700  'glider'  a few successful glider designs  were produced . Then the first  powered man flight with the Wrights  1903 ( and some other claims but they are around this time ) . 

 

then 60 years later  .... 

 

 

The same with life itself ....  

3.5 Bill ya single cells ,  complex cells take another billion years to develop . Multicell life another billion. Simple animals  600 million . Then it really amps up ( the 'Cambrian Explosion ' ) early human 2.5 mill ya . modern humans  200,000  ya .   and so on 

Quote

As a result of trends like these, we might expect an explosion of mind.

 

 

 

It already happened ; if we look at  ( certain definitions of ) intelligence ... intelligence itself developed so rapidly (or I should say, increased at an exponential rate so rapidly )  that it went beyond the capacity of the function of the human mind and into 'AI' a process still occurring at present 

 

.

Edited 2 hours ago by Nungali

[Nungali]

.... IE. 'intelligence' itself advanced so rapidly the human mind could no longer contain it .

[Cobie]

22 minutes ago, Nungali said:

.... IE. 'intelligence' itself advanced so rapidly the human mind could no longer contain it .

[Nungali]

... perhaps 'calculation' is the better term here ?  

 

Whatever we call it  , its still 'exploded' beyond our brains  ( but perhaps not our 'minds'  ? ) .