Is your Taijiquan effective in combat?

[Sahaj Nath]

[Taiji Bum]

I think that everytime we tap in to the infinite intellegence or Tao when we have that flash of intuition during a fight that such a satori pushes us on in our evolution. Each time it gets deeper and longer and we become closer to Tao in our everyday life.

[Spectrum]

Edited June 8, 2008 by Spectrum

[Taomeow]

By the way, in real life, I've learned to assume the taijiquan posture when there's a verbal conflict -- and occasionally a "nonphysical fight" --

 

e.g., when my son was in the hospital and the doctor was pulling a power trip on us, refusing to do what needed to be done and peddling a whole bunch of stuff we didn't want done instead, with extreme aggression (screaming, threatening, blackmailing, you name it) --

 

instead of getting pulled into a screaming match with him, as he surely hoped I would, I just kept telling myself, "drop the shoulders," "listen to the back," "tail bone down," "loosen," "unlock," "open" and so on --

and from this place, I was arguing my point -- calmly, without a smithereen of tension/anxiety in my body language, in my voice --

 

and I confused the hell out of the bully (who is like that habitually, as the nurses explained to me, and usually intimidates the hell out of everybody). He wound up backing off and doing exactly what I wanted. With profound apologies at that. Thanks, taijiquan-for-combat!

[Xienkula1]

.........................................................................................................................................

Edited June 8, 2008 by Xienkula1

[orb]

instead of getting pulled into a screaming match with him, as he surely hoped I would, I just kept telling myself, "drop the shoulders," "listen to the back," "tail bone down," "loosen," "unlock," "open" and so on --

and from this place, I was arguing my point -- calmly, without a smithereen of tension/anxiety in my body language, in my voice --

 

great example of taiji's benefits

[rain]

Edited June 8, 2008 by rain

[Lozen]

I don't think any SD would be effective in real life unless it is alive; e.g. has timing energy and motion and is performed against a resisting opponent. And the only way to really be able to control an opponent without seriously hurting them is to be that much better than them in an art that is alive (boxing, wrestling, jiu jitsu, judo, Greco-Roman, etc.). I know BJJ purple and brown belts who can tie me up in knots without actually hurting me, and they've never stepped foot into a taiji class.

[Wayfarer64]

I find the inner calm of known quantities is a great soother of fear and the known quantity of awful necessity soothes later remorse. Life & death struggles -or even maiming- injury being threatened, tend to bring out the true nature of our selves...Are we ready to deal with this wild world or not? How can we do this without creating a worse situation? etc etc...

 

The grasp of the Tao in the harsh reality of violence is very strong, a moment of intensity sharpens the senses anyway-even a roller-coaster offers such enlivening...But the right and wrong of our activities is very pertinent when in a fight... How much force is needed to bring back peace as it were...

 

This is also why I deplore the recent war-mongering of my nation's leadership... it is just bad policy!- Only "Chicken hawks" who have never been in a real fight - would rush to war...

[Spectrum]

...resistance is futile...

[Taomeow]

You're living in a dream world, Neo.

Edited June 8, 2008 by Taomeow

[Spectrum]

opponents resist cooperating

 

partners cooperate resistance

 

I always observe the amount of "effort" expanded on the part of any individual in executing "technique". My personal tastes look for teachers who are light and relaxed in movement, playful in attitude, and have an active/ alive interplay between student and teacher. Any technique regardless of style can be taught and practiced w/ aliveness in mind, the techniques themselves shrink and expand and the space between (transitions) techniques are very quickly realized in this way, where the traditional linear learning (step 1 - 2 - 3) takes longer to unify the technique into fluid three in one step movement.

[rain]

...resistance is futile...

 

 

Taomeow Posted Today, 11:27 AM

 

You're living in a dream world, Neo.

 

 

 

 

U2 are cute!

Edited June 8, 2008 by rain

[Taomeow]

Taomeow Posted Today, 11:27 AM

 

You're living in a dream world, Neo.

U2 are cute!

absolutely -- but no cuter than you!

[IanB]

Nice!

 

 

i have a question for you:

 

do you think that being in real-life confrontations helped you to advance spiritually? i haven't really done tai chi chuan yet, but i have found this to be the case in fighting back when MMA-style fighting was still underground. embracing ones deepest vulnerability and the possibility of loss or even death. letting nature take it's course.

 

i always thought real life and death struggles were an important part of our spiritual evolution.

 

just curious what you think. or anyone else for that matter.

 

Hundun

 

To simply answer your question yes it made me aware of things there was an in the zone feeling that is the same as I have achieved in meditation or standing. But I want to heavily Caveat that by saying that it made me aware of something but when I was first experiencing it did not change me it allowed me see myself as I was then, the state alone is not going to enlighten you as a whole human being.

 

The experience of this allowed meditation and alchemical practises to be understood and experienced quickly, making progress faster.

 

To explain what I mean, it is better if I share an example of this with you, after looking for more and trying to understand things that I had seen. I set off to find exercises to make me stronger and more powerful, some of the senior ranking people I came across practised these exercises (most did not know what it was). So then my training in pushing out my hands and breathing funny began the result was realised very quickly.

 

Well within the 100 days I was stronger and had solid palms, cool, so like every sensible and worldly wise youth I started to double the level of practice as obviously twice as much made me twice as hard (ok not the greatest logic but i was naive).

 

The result I could hit really hard but the palms of my hand and soles of my feet were a strange red sometimes really dry, coupled with occasional burning feelings when I trained, not a pleasant experience but the state was becoming easier to achieve and for some reason I became aware of what I can only call disconnects and barriers to me the real me and forms of programming that seemed to over ride.

 

By this time the people that taught me this stuff were gone and like most sensible people I had ignored all their advice about meditation and emotional balancing. I had worked out that the burning was an excess of aggression and repressed hatred and began to see that in a real way it was killing my life. (not saying I was going to drop dead but I was losing me to the me I had created to deal with the experience I had had in my life.)

 

With the practice I was building energy and reinforcing destructive patterns so I had to change what I was doing to look at solving the imbalances in me.

 

So as a result of this I became a better person, not necessarily a good person (enlightenment is not the same as good) but more genuine, I became more in control of my response to the world and closer to the Tao. Years later the burning has stopped and my hands are fine but I want to stress years later.

 

The situations taught me to see the world and not get hung up on the false sense of how things should be but on how they are. When I was on the door you learned to notice the patterns in others that let you know they were going to kick off or respond in a different way. You could see it first because of the Tai Chi and you could feel it as well, understanding it you could respond better the pattern was no longer in control it was really just a pattern that was created by false beliefs.

 

This is the same when you meditate it allows you to see the post birth that is created as a response to the environment to protect the real you rather than allowing you to act genuinely as you would want to.

 

Ok I have waffled a lot and what I am really trying to say is that the martial arts taught me to see things and understand them but it was a combination that has meant that I have progressed. The danger is the martial element gives clarity and speeds progress but if the steering is not there then it can easily reinforce patterns and move you further away from you.

[orb]

To those of you who would just want to learn the most simple and yet the most effective fighting basics I highly recommend the following videos. They are free on youtube and are by far the fastest way to learn how to fight. I personally know somebody who was in a situation to punch a horse in the face with a jab like this, as the horse was trying to bite him and that little jab determined the horse to turn around and take off while still dizzy and confused from that hit.

 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=85...PDIDA&hl=en

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o0nz9BBFvLk...feature=related

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohH37Q8pBGs&NR=1

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDFKf0ydjtg...feature=related

Edited June 8, 2008 by orb

[Taiji Bum]

Big fat meanie hit a horse? If a horse is trying to bite someone it is because they deserve it. Seriously, I grew up on a horse farm and that guy is glue if I ever meet him.

[orb]

Big fat meanie hit a horse? If a horse is trying to bite someone it is because they deserve it. Seriously, I grew up on a horse farm and that guy is glue if I ever meet him.

 

Lol, I grew up on a farm as well and our horses were very well taken care of. This particular one used to be a racing horse and after retirement was brought to us. It was a huge horse actually and would attack unexpectedely - I don't know what had happened to him before he got there, but we were feeding the horses apples from our hands that day while the big one decided to bite and you probably know that if they get to bite you it's gonna be bad. I heard of a guy who almost died because of such a bite...

[Andrei]

orb

 

I learned to punch and jab but what I can tell you is that after beginning practicing Zhan Zhuang - Standing Qigong for 1 hour per day the power, speed, stamina, explosion... everything increased about double. Of course everything has a limit but I am happy with my limits and especially the fact that my limits right now are much higher than before.

[orb]

orb

 

I learned to punch and jab but what I can tell you is that after beginning practicing Zhan Zhuang - Standing Qigong for 1 hour per day the power, speed, stamina, explosion... everything increased about double. Of course everything has a limit but I am happy with my limits and especially the fact that my limits right now are much higher than before.

 

I couldn't agree more, but the key is that the two have to go together hand in hand. Taiji practise without the real fighting practise (and I don't mean push-hands or even sparring) it would be like practising swimming without ever going in the water.

[rain]

[Plastic Object]

I wholeheartedly agree that the southeast asian martial arts are the best for pure combat value: kuntao, silat and kali/escrima. I have practiced a couple of them and feel really secure in the ability of these systems to just about take out anyone from another system, including practitioners of most mainland chinese systems. I also think that many systems have a honesty to them that is apparent. If you want to punch someone in the face so he falls over, go for western boxing. If you want to be able to escape a rapist: submission wrestling, if you want to survive multiple opponents with knifes you shouldn't try to hit them with "fluffy magic bunny hands enters the eastern gate of the temple" or whatever. Run fast instead. It is all about what kind of situations one trains for. I don't practice taijiquan, but my bet is that some practitioners probably can handle themselves in a real fight, but that most probably couldn't.

 

I also think that some knowledge of how ordinary people fight is necessary for most people who want to win a real fight. So practicing an good external style for a couple of years does seem to be a good idea, if you don't want to do it in the streets ;-) What this knowledge of external styles gives is body-knowledge of how potential opponents can fight, and it also gives the ablility to sort out really bad techniques from good ones. There are many so called fighting techniques out there that are lethal or dangerous -for the one who tries to use them (karate X-block against knife, spinning backfist and spinning high-kicks f. ex). Taijiquan seems to me to be quit a few steps removed from street brawling, and may contain techniques like these too. As a general rule I'd say that if the master has no reputation as a fighter (in his or her youth -which is more often the case) and his or her master has no such reputation either, then the style probably isn't good for fighting, and probably contains dangerous elements (for the user that is).

 

... and since you may be curious: I haven't been in a real fight since I started with martial arts.

[Andrei]

 

Taikiken (japanese name) = Yi Quan (chinese name) - same internal principles and same practice as Taijiquan/Baguazhang/Xing Yi Quan

 

 

Martial applications

 

Tuishou = Pushing Hands

 

Solo drills

 

Ritsu Zen = Zhan Zhuang

 

More Zhan Zhuang

Edited June 11, 2008 by steam

[Plastic Object]

A little question: The driving force for most people I have met who study the really brutal and effective martial arts seems to be fear. Fear of some specific thing, and then one practices and practices to counter it and to be prepared for it. Does this ring true for practitioners of chinese internal martial arts?

[Taomeow]

A little question: The driving force for most people I have met who study the really brutal and effective martial arts seems to be fear. Fear of some specific thing, and then one practices and practices to counter it and to be prepared for it. Does this ring true for practitioners of chinese internal martial arts?

When I was practicing TKD, we had an assistant to the master, a young Latino guy who told me stories about his pre-TKD life. He used to be small for his age and big bad guys beat him up just because that was what he was good for in their book, and then came that moment when his training paid off for the first time, and he pummeled one of them and proceeded to pummel the rest of them one by one and was left alone forever. His fear was freely admitted by him and completely legitimate -- rough environment, rough handling not his fantasies but his real life -- and martial training was the remedy. Many others don't know what they fear but they fear. A father might have been intimidating, but fantasies about teaching him a lesson never reach the conscious mind explicitly (too forbidden), instead they get redirected, projected onto someone else. I'll show him/her/them! Yes, a scared little boy is plotting his revenge inside every "brutal and effective" warrior, I've no doubt in my mind.

 

Chinese MA are different, at least for some, in that the immediate or expected opponent is a bigger kind of tyrant. Poor health, aging ungracefully, loss of a sense of physical excitement from the sheer process of living, this kind of opponent. Not a thug who might give you a beating in a dark alley. A thug that can invade your liver, give a beating to your reflection in the mirror, snatch a "purse" where you keep your self-identity as an able-bodied, able-spirited, sturdy piece of work. The only reason I would want to study something brutal and effective would be to use it against the actual brutal and effective enemies -- and these, of course, are different for different people. Mindless Inertia is the name I call my own biggest and most brutal one. And Chinese MA can beat him to a bloody pulp.