those falling into further illusion

[Sunya]

hi everyone,

glad to be back on this forum with so many curious and open seekers..

 

and hello Santiago, i believe I emailed you or Tao a year ago to confirm Glenn's passing.. he was my first teacher.. path notes really opened me up to the possibilities of Kundalini and the amazing experiences following

 

the major point i'd like to address with anyone reading is what Glenn said here

At its culmination, it results in union with All.

 

this is, in my opinion, what many people are missing.

 

i was too, lost in phenomena for a while.. interested in out of body astral happenings, energy work, even tried kunlun for 3 months. but it wasn't until i met my teacher that i realized what all this is... further trappings of the ego.. another layer of maya (illusion)

 

if you are really seeking truth.. i urge you not to get caught up in any of this. it only reinforces the illusion of who you are.

 

many of you here realize that you are not the physical body, but you are not the energy body either, nor are you the soul.. or whatever else may be at your locality. in essence, you are God, everything.

 

NON DUALITY (the Tao or Shiva or Christ Consciousness or Kingdom of Heaven or nirvana..trying to be multi cultural here) is the truth that must be embraced. Kundalini (shakti) is the teacher that guides us to this realization by pulling out the rug underneath our false feet and making us constantly ask the question What is truth.. Who am I? Is there an I?

 

doing energy work and wanting to be healthy is fine.. but has nothing to do with truth. there is the illusion that energy work clears blockages which is necessary for spiritual evolution. blockages are subconscious fears and habits that must be addressed. the best and fastest way to progress is to surrender and not associate with the body, mind, or emotions.

 

awakening kundalini is great, but that is just the first step. having a momentary glimpse is awesome.. but not the end.

 

Santiago you said earlier that there is no end, i disagree. the ego doesn't want an end.. because the only end is the end of the false self (ego) and that is the only way to realize truth.. surrender fully.

 

many people get caught up in psychic and subtle phenomena, believing that this is the end. they can heal people, teach them, have great experiences.. but this isn't the end. the end is the end of you (who you think you are)

 

Santiago, you also said that if the kundalini isn't there you die.. how can this be? the body may die, but how can you die? there is no you.. lol. you studied Buddhism and Hinduism, you must have learned about no-self in Buddhism.. and Shiva/Shakti in hinduism. Shiva being consciousness (formless) and Shakti form. very similiar to Dzogchen which has the primordial nature or being without any form.

 

i highly suggest the author Jed McKenna and his books Enlightenment the Damndest thing and Spiritually incorrect enlightenment.. these books made me really ANGRY and CONFUSED for months after reading them because Mckenna pretty much says 99% of spirituality is bullshit and not truth. How can this be? well, its true. further trappings of the ego. if you'd like the books,

 

very longwinded post, i apoligize.. but have been scouring this forum today and feel that there are many eager seekers falling into ego trappings here

 

mikael

[sheng zhen]

Welcome back man

[Wun Yuen Gong]

Mikelz,

 

Nice post mate, welcome back love to read those books as well i will PM you also!

 

Can i ask you what you are studying now and who is your teacher?

 

regards

WYG

[satyagraha]

its interesting you post this now because this is what I (oh the irony!) have been chewing on for the past few days. you nicely articulated what I was tricking myself of.

[opalstjames]

Nice, and timely post mikaelz.

[passenger1980]

I've heard good stuff about Mckenna's books before,

 

The no-self issue, although it is mentioned a lot in different sources, it's still very controversial an hard to grasp. I personally (like many of you) can understand it to a certain point, but after all it's like understanding infinity. We get glimpses, and those in spiritual practices like us are quite certain that all is one, and there's no real ego or even soul, but the reality is that we are all individual beings, human, animals, and other, who experience emotions, thoughts, feelings and REALITY.

 

The problem i have is that, i don't understand how without this duality one can keep experiencing it, one would become reality, but it still confuses me, someone must still experience something. I think no one knows at the end, perhaps we will when we die, or not, just infinite nothingness, like when we lose consciousness in sleep (which doesn't sound that good, that's why in my opinion there are too many religions and spiritual teachings promising heaven/nirvana/whatever...).

[mjjbecker]

..

Edited June 29, 2009 by mjjbecker

[doc benway]

Nicely said Mikaelz...

I think it takes a direct experience of the connection you describe to really accept what you're saying.

Most on the spiritual search strongly cling to it not realizing that it's the clinging to the search that prevents the experience of what they're trying to attain. The irony is perfect. The ego is searching for the fact that it doesn't exist but as long as the search continues so must the ilusion.

Many authors point to this and many practices lead to this direction but there is no teacher like direct experience.

Jeff Foster and Steven Harrison are also very good authors on the subject.

Welcome back!

[voidisyinyang]

Well Santiago's point to me was that you can get your ass kicked in the spirit world -- so to speak. Mahayana Buddhism (read Master Nan, Huai-chin) is about spirit travel so that you can survive even cosmic catastrophes. This is the paradox of "different levels of emptiness." The Dgochzen (or sp?) -- as per the excellent book CIVILIZED SHAMANS -- is actually more closer to the Bon lineage -- or at least the Dgozzzchen is rejected by some of the Tibetan schools.

 

OK I just finished the mind-boggling book "Mediumship and Survival" (1983) by Alan Gauld -- a parapsychologist Ph.D. So Western parapsychology has been obsessed with the concept of immortal individuality -- as is the West hang-up - and the book tries to examine this obsession in contrast to what it calls "super ESP" which is more like the Buddhist concept of rebirth.

 

But, obviously, nondualism, is based on "pure" consciousness -- that we're already liberated, etc.

 

Again to bring it back to the "getting your ass kicked in the spirit world" metaphor -- the CONCEPT of nondualism is just that -- a left-brain philosophy. Left-brain mind yoga is, again, a WESTERN obsession (as per the "What is Enlightenment" scene). Nondualism in Vedanta is DEPENDENT on the caste-system -- so that you can be vegetarian (protected by the warrior class); have no contact with females; and then literally kill yourself, causing all physical and mental afflications to automatically resonate past your physical self. The book "Talks with Ramana Maharshi" details how he achieved eternal liberation only AFTER his heart stopped for over 10 minutes and then restarted again. That took him 9 years and this blatant detail, the key to his "eternal liberation" is REPRESSED by even his followers. I studied his rare books straight from his ashram and then asked his followers on their internet listserve about this issue. It was denied. Both Goodman and H.W.L. Poonja state that there's only 6 people on the planet who actually achieve "eternal liberation" as any one time -- it's a very specific and rare accomplishment.

 

I just finished the amazing book MIRACLES (1982) by D. Scott Rogo, another parapsychologist who also specialized in "psychic music," the basis for my meditation model. Anyway D. S. Rogo details how St. Teresa de Avila also basically killed herself -- her stigmata included a fissure on her heart that she knew the location was. I think it was her right side -- just as Ramana Maharshi says it's the right side of the heart which is the secret to eternal liberation. Teresa wasn't the only westerner to do this through mind yoga -- and those that did ALSO achieved BILOCATION, just like Ramana Maharshi -- the creation of another physical body.

 

So the left-brain mind yoga is called "the direct path" because it's not based on spirit travel into the cosmos but rather goes directly to the source of the body as pure consciousness -- the same source for the whole universe. But again the left-brain yoga is dependent on training in specific religious conditions and does not utilize spiritual paranormal powers as the means of creating a "safe" space for healing, health and happiness.

 

Either way the MEANS -- the useful means -- is actually based on natural resonance. The left-brain mind yoga or inference of the I-thought, is LISTENING which then resonates the vagus nerve to the heart through ultrasound ionization. The right-brain body yoga is the vagus nerve to the stomach. Both left-brain and right-brain yoga rely on sublimating the sex energy -- but the right-brain yoga does it through interaction with the world as tantra. That's why science is actually tantra, the external path, whereas PURE LOGIC, is the source of both right-brain shamanism and science. Pure logic is the LOGOS, listening to the source of sound through complementary opposite numbers. Buddhism is not humanism and Master Nan, Huai-chin states that one of the most important conceptual Buddhist questions is why humans were created in the first place. So the Bushmen trance healing relies on music and tantra and has the same powers as Taoism and Buddhism, etc. -- but it was the dominant culture from 10,000 BCE to 80,000 BCE. Yet BEFORE that humans -- going back millions of years -- were still not bipedal -- were still living in trees, eating mainly LEAVES, and relying on sound as the dominance perception. Even when primates started relying on FRUIT -- the "forbidden" fruit -- the primates became agressively territorial (gibbons). Fruit is a limited resource that is high energy. Meat even more so -- and with meat, female chimps began using spears for hunting so the females chimps wouldn't have to be raped. And so began the early forms of tantra -- the secret science of sublimated sexual energy. Hopefully Professor Chris Knight's forthcoming book "The Human Conspiracy" (Cambridge U Press) will have some new juicy details.

[shontonga]

but have been scouring this forum today and feel that there are many eager seekers falling into ego trappings here

 

mikael

 

Hi mikaelz!

I am Shon,

Nice to meet you !

 

Great subject.

For all my longwindedness

will try to be quick?

 

There are precious seeds of reality

hidden within,

that can grow from,

pretty illusion's flowers!

 

... Or they may be weeds?

 

with medicinal qualities?

 

Other's illusions create great reflections!

 

That Crazy old Taoist, from stories of old ?

Was more than a bit Heyoka!

Illusion is also a precious art!

One worth playing with!

 

... although that of course means we have the understanding that that same "worth"

is no more than a sweet illusion

 

LOL

 

Have Fun with it ALL!

 

Shonton Ga

[Vajrasattva]

 

 

Too much talking, to much intellectualising. In the immortal words of Hatsumi sensei of the Bujinkan, 'Shut up and train!'

 

 

 

PRICELESS WISDOM FROM THE BOSS!

[Vajrasattva]

As Glenn once said its more fun to Play in Both Mandalas.....

The Dual & The Non Dual...

 

 

hi everyone.. glad to be back on this forum with so many curious and open seekers..

 

and hello Santiago, i believe I emailed you or Tao a year ago to confirm Glenn's passing.. he was my first teacher.. path notes really opened me up to the possibilities of Kundalini and the amazing experiences following

 

the major point i'd like to address with anyone reading is what Glenn said here

this is, in my opinion, what many people are missing.

 

i was too, lost in phenomena for a while.. interested in out of body astral happenings, energy work, even tried kunlun for 3 months. but it wasn't until i met my teacher that i realized what all this is... further trappings of the ego.. another layer of maya (illusion)

 

Hi Mikaelz,

 

Depends how you use it and what its for and what your "DHARMA" is for the benifit of others.

 

 

if you are really seeking truth.. i urge you not to get caught up in any of this. it only reinforces the illusion of who you are.

 

 

again it all depends on what you want to do and what your "ROLE" is you are nothing more than an instrument for the divine.

 

 

many of you here realize that you are not the physical body, but you are not the energy body either, nor are you the soul.. or whatever else may be at your locality. in essence, you are God, everything.

 

True God resides in all of this "ILLUSION" we are nothing but a drop of the creators grace.

 

NON DUALITY (the Tao or Shiva or Christ Consciousness or Kingdom of Heaven or nirvana..trying to be multi cultural here) is the truth that must be embraced. Kundalini (shakti) is the teacher that guides us to this realization by pulling out the rug underneath our false feet and making us constantly ask the question What is truth.. Who am I? Is there an I?

 

doing energy work and wanting to be healthy is fine.. but has nothing to do with truth. there is the illusion that energy work clears blockages which is necessary for spiritual evolution. blockages are subconscious fears and habits that must be addressed. the best and fastest way to progress is to surrender and not associate with the body, mind, or emotions.

 

awakening kundalini is great, but that is just the first step. having a momentary glimpse is awesome.. but not the end.

 

again Dzogchen....

 

Well again in the "relative truth" or dual state it has a purpose in the "Absolute truth" no it is all illusion.

 

However if you choose to truly be NON dual than you should live as an asethic and away from being in the duality or society. The real mastery is in the integration of all things anywhere and everywhere you are is good and you are able to play both games in the cosmic play. As the Mikkyo say living in the the Both Mandalas.

This is the approach of the Buddha or the truly Enlightened master.

 

Now if you do not want to be in this "duality" fine walk onto uncoming traffic and say its all illusion : ) Bye bye.

Watch what happens next. In the relative Truth you are road kill in the Absolute truth it was all illusion.

 

( I WOULD NEVER RECOMMEND THIS TO ANYONE BY THE WAY) just making you realize that if you want to be "here" you must respect the "Dual" and also the "non Dual" and also you must know the sciences that help you succeed in the "dual" or the illusion hence why the "Tantras" where revealed to the sages.

 

 

But again if you don't want this...do not do it.

 

There is a path for everyone and they all fall into 3

 

renunciate

tantric

dzogchen

 

 

 

 

 

Santiago you said earlier that there is no end, i disagree. the ego doesn't want an end.. because the only end is the end of the false self (ego) and that is the only way to realize truth.. surrender fully.

 

 

Well here is my question for you....if you are GOD as you stated a few sentences ago then would you not have a Beginning nor and END? So how can there be an end?

 

 

 

many people get caught up in psychic and subtle phenomena, believing that this is the end. they can heal people, teach them, have great experiences.. but this isn't the end. the end is the end of you (who you think you are)

 

True again in the "absolute truth" But not in the "relative Truth" you need both if you want to sustain this existence.

 

 

Santiago, you also said that if the kundalini isn't there you die.. how can this be? the body may die, but how can you die? there is no you.. lol.

 

 

What I meant is the PHYSICAL BODY would die with out Kundalini. No Shakti....NO LIFE ..NO ANIMATION.

the "WORD" in the Bible is "SHAKTI" you get it? No breath of creator or word...you not exist anymore

 

you studied Buddhism and Hinduism, you must have learned about no-self in Buddhism.. and Shiva/Shakti in hinduism. Shiva being consciousness (formless) and Shakti form. very similiar to Dzogchen which has the primordial nature or being without any form.

 

True on the ABSOLUTE truth level there is no you. But on the relative truth there is a YOU ad if you want to sustain that YOU in this present form you have to abide by certain "laws" and also know how to work them in order to prolong what ever it is you need or desire in this Relative truth. Hence "Magik", Ilmu, Tantra, Vajrayana, Taoist cultivation. The absolute revealed revealed keys to people so that they could in this "relative Truth" acess and under stand the "ABSOLUTE TRUTH".

 

In Nirbija Samadhi you spend a vacation lets say in Absolute truth. But if you wish to stay "here" then you go back to this relative truth and live out your life and live as if Creator is with in you so you help others benifit & and also find THEIR enlightement.

 

i highly suggest the author Jed McKenna and his books Enlightenment the Damndest thing and Spiritually incorrect enlightenment.. these books made me really ANGRY and CONFUSED for months after reading them because Mckenna pretty much says 99% of spirituality is bullshit and not truth. How can this be? well, its true. further trappings of the ego. if you'd like the books, i have them in e-book.. PM me

 

very longwinded post, i apoligize.. but have been scouring this forum today and feel that there are many eager seekers falling into ego trappings here

 

mikael

 

 

Very : ) But its ok i know where you are coming from. Come visit me one day you are welcomed any time.

 

 

God Bless

 

Santiago Dobles

Edited June 15, 2008 by Vajrasattva

[Sunya]

Well Santiago's point to me was that you can get your ass kicked in the spirit world -- so to speak. Mahayana Buddhism (read Master Nan, Huai-chin) is about spirit travel so that you can survive even cosmic catastrophes. This is the paradox of "different levels of emptiness." The Dgochzen (or sp?) -- as per the excellent book CIVILIZED SHAMANS -- is actually more closer to the Bon lineage -- or at least the Dgozzzchen is rejected by some of the Tibetan schools.

 

OK I just finished the mind-boggling book "Mediumship and Survival" (1983) by Alan Gauld -- a parapsychologist Ph.D. So Western parapsychology has been obsessed with the concept of immortal individuality -- as is the West hang-up - and the book tries to examine this obsession in contrast to what it calls "super ESP" which is more like the Buddhist concept of rebirth.

 

But, obviously, nondualism, is based on "pure" consciousness -- that we're already liberated, etc.

 

Again to bring it back to the "getting your ass kicked in the spirit world" metaphor -- the CONCEPT of nondualism is just that -- a left-brain philosophy. Left-brain mind yoga is, again, a WESTERN obsession (as per the "What is Enlightenment" scene). Nondualism in Vedanta is DEPENDENT on the caste-system -- so that you can be vegetarian (protected by the warrior class); have no contact with females; and then literally kill yourself, causing all physical and mental afflications to automatically resonate past your physical self. The book "Talks with Ramana Maharshi" details how he achieved eternal liberation only AFTER his heart stopped for over 10 minutes and then restarted again. That took him 9 years and this blatant detail, the key to his "eternal liberation" is REPRESSED by even his followers. I studied his rare books straight from his ashram and then asked his followers on their internet listserve about this issue. It was denied. Both Goodman and H.W.L. Poonja state that there's only 6 people on the planet who actually achieve "eternal liberation" as any one time -- it's a very specific and rare accomplishment.

 

I just finished the amazing book MIRACLES (1982) by D. Scott Rogo, another parapsychologist who also specialized in "psychic music," the basis for my meditation model. Anyway D. S. Rogo details how St. Teresa de Avila also basically killed herself -- her stigmata included a fissure on her heart that she knew the location was. I think it was her right side -- just as Ramana Maharshi says it's the right side of the heart which is the secret to eternal liberation. Teresa wasn't the only westerner to do this through mind yoga -- and those that did ALSO achieved BILOCATION, just like Ramana Maharshi -- the creation of another physical body.

 

So the left-brain mind yoga is called "the direct path" because it's not based on spirit travel into the cosmos but rather goes directly to the source of the body as pure consciousness -- the same source for the whole universe. But again the left-brain yoga is dependent on training in specific religious conditions and does not utilize spiritual paranormal powers as the means of creating a "safe" space for healing, health and happiness.

 

Either way the MEANS -- the useful means -- is actually based on natural resonance. The left-brain mind yoga or inference of the I-thought, is LISTENING which then resonates the vagus nerve to the heart through ultrasound ionization. The right-brain body yoga is the vagus nerve to the stomach. Both left-brain and right-brain yoga rely on sublimating the sex energy -- but the right-brain yoga does it through interaction with the world as tantra. That's why science is actually tantra, the external path, whereas PURE LOGIC, is the source of both right-brain shamanism and science. Pure logic is the LOGOS, listening to the source of sound through complementary opposite numbers. Buddhism is not humanism and Master Nan, Huai-chin states that one of the most important conceptual Buddhist questions is why humans were created in the first place. So the Bushmen trance healing relies on music and tantra and has the same powers as Taoism and Buddhism, etc. -- but it was the dominant culture from 10,000 BCE to 80,000 BCE. Yet BEFORE that humans -- going back millions of years -- were still not bipedal -- were still living in trees, eating mainly LEAVES, and relying on sound as the dominance perception. Even when primates started relying on FRUIT -- the "forbidden" fruit -- the primates became agressively territorial (gibbons). Fruit is a limited resource that is high energy. Meat even more so -- and with meat, female chimps began using spears for hunting so the females chimps wouldn't have to be raped. And so began the early forms of tantra -- the secret science of sublimated sexual energy. Hopefully Professor Chris Knight's forthcoming book "The Human Conspiracy" (Cambridge U Press) will have some new juicy details.

 

 

 

Hi Drew, very very interesting..

my teacher Swami G teaches the direct path and Ramana Maharshi is spoken of as a true saint.

though not getting into as much detail as you, her practices are basically vipassana and mantra, but the essence of all the practices is surrender and remaining in the 'spiritual heart' which is in the right side of the chest.

 

caste is not necessary, this belief is a limitation. Swami G has led 6 or 7 people to Realization.. 3 year this year.. all of which are people that have jobs, some have kids, and live regular lives.. not like Brahmins at all. so why rely on hearsay such as "only 6 people can be realized at one time" who makes those rules? why 6? thats just nonsense to me..

 

the specifics of how it works is not so interesting to me, just as long as it works. i think thats all that matters

 

also..i've never heard that Mahayana Buddhism is about spirit travel.. and i've studied Buddhist Philosophy at university level. my understanding of the essence is surrender to compassion, which is the essence of all paths without the culture. Mahayana was a furthering of Theravada which stopped at non-dual experience without integration (which Santiago spoke of) the emphasis of compassion in Mahayana is necessary for integration of absolute and relative

 

mikael

Edited June 15, 2008 by mikaelz

[bindo]

the only end is the end of the false self (ego) and that is the only way to realize truth.. surrender fully.

 

Mckenna pretty much says 99% of spirituality is bullshit

 

 

 

the end of the false self is only the beginning

 

The truth can be found here The Synthesis of Yoga

[Sunya]

Hi Santiago, thanks for joining in!

and appreciate the offer to visit, if i'm ever in Florida would love to visit, same for me in new jersey.. though will be going to India to study abroad for 9 months in August. visit me there! :]

 

it was great to read your post.. i believe you are right on the money about the respect for the relative, it is a necessity. the relation between absolute truth and relative truth is quite paradoxical to the logical mind.. and thus has been quite confusing for me.

 

of course by knowing you are God that doesn't mean you can walk into oncoming traffic, balance.. yin-yang, definitely. but.. taking this metaphor.. some would use fear as a motivation to avoid the car, spend their lives training to avoid cars lol , but the wiser would realize that there is nothing to fear but at the same time physical death isn't necessary so would calmly avoid cars

 

you nailed it when you said "it all depends on what you want to do"

of course, but many think that playing with duality will somehow give them truth of non-duality

 

it's like playing poker and taking more and more cards.. when to realize truth you gotta throw the cards away and stop playing

 

i'm not saying stop tai chi or martial arts, we all have hobbies i've been addicted to watching soccer lately, euro cup 2008! but i wanted to share with people is that none of this has to do with absolute truth, nirvana, whatever.

 

I also agree that true mastery is integration. enlightenment isn't living in a cave away from society..but it also isn't teleportation, psychic powers, or being an X-Men.

i think that there is a commonality here that 'masters' are judged by their powers. if someone is a jedi master that's terrific, if someone can heal the sick and turn water into wine.. awesome. Jesus did those things, but thats not why i know he was enlightened.. it was his actions and what he taught.

 

i read a book recently called Putting on the Mind of Christ by Jim Marion, former monastic writing about non-dual consciousness (Kingdom of heaven) being the culmination of the evolution of consciousness, using biblical scripture to inspire the Christian to move on from the mythical beliefs while also citing parallels to buddhism and hinduism.. great book for me to get over my misconceptions

 

a quote from my teacher Swami G about enlightenment, which is abiding always in realization.. the balance between relative and absolute is illustrated in her words

 

the world moves the same.... but what has changed is your relationship to the world..... no longer caught up in the play thereof being in the world but not of it you remain going through the motions of everyday life.... but while the surface "personality" may be seen to be involved within the everyday emotions and foibles underneath within you the reality is a steady calm..... nothing moves the

center.... the waves still appear to manifest on the surface but you are absorbed in the deep.... where there is no movement.... that state within is utter calm........

 

Like the ocean reality or maya is simply the surface waves of moving consciousness.... shakti which manifests the underlying Ocean of Consciousness into a limited visible form..... But what is beneath and around and within that form is simply the same consciousness which comprises the Whole of the Ocean.... But in the calm of the depths you know the vastness instead of the limited......

 

mikael

Edited June 15, 2008 by mikaelz

[Sunya]

WYG sent me a video of Swami G talking about phenomena and nirvana

for those interested, its a short video but she explains it so well.. much better than I can, especially since she is speaking from experience.

 

 

mjjbecker, about experience... yes.. experience is everything. that is why i am citing my teacher. i am only a vessel for her teachings which i feel are universal among the great saints, sages, masters, lamas

 

Santiago, many focus on 'opening the third eye' as if its the holy grail of spirituality. what is your opinion of this? is there benefit of opening the third eye? i'm really curious about your response..i've heard mixed teachings on this. Swami G says not to as its a hindrance while Chrism, another teacher of mine over at Kundalini Awakening Systems and friend of Glenn, teaches mudras to open third eye..

 

thanks

Edited June 15, 2008 by mikaelz

[mjjbecker]

..

Edited June 29, 2009 by mjjbecker

[Sunya]

the end of the false self is only the beginning

 

The truth can be found here The Synthesis of Yoga

 

 

thanks for the link

it seems he talks about this ..

 

In the ordinary Yoga of knowledge it is only necessary to recognise two planes of our consciousness, the spiritual and the materialised mental; the pure reason standing between these two views them both, cuts through the illusions of the phenomenal world, exceeds the materialised mental plane, sees the reality of the spiritual; and then the will of the individual Purusha unifying itself with this poise of knowledge rejects the lower and draws back to the supreme plane, dwells there, loses mind and body, sheds life from it and merges itself in the supreme Purusha, is delivered from individual existence. It knows that this is not the whole truth of our existence, which is much more complex; it knows there are many planes, but it disregards them or pays little attention to them because they are not essential to this liberation. They indeed rather hamper it, because to live on them brings new attractive psychical experiences, psychical enjoyments, psychical powers, a new world of phenomenal

knowledge the pursuit of which creates stumbling-blocks in the way of its one object, immergence in Brahman, and brings a succession of innumerable way-side snares on the road which leads to God. But since we accept world-existence, and for us all world-existence is Brahman and full of the presence of God, these things can have no terrors for us; whatever dangers of distraction there may be, we have to face and overcome them. If the world and our own existence are so complex, we must know and embrace their complexities in order that our self-knowledge and our knowledge of the dealings of Purusha with its prakriti may be complete. If there are many planes, we have to possess them all for the Divine, even as we seek to possess spiritually and transform our ordinary poise of mind, life and body.

 

his reasoning for embracing the other levels of consciousness sounds weak to me. fear isn't the reason that the direct path ignores phenomena.. possess them all for the Divine? sounds like an inferiority complex the planes of existence are endless, these aren't baseball cards you collect.. i don't know, i'll keep reading though

 

 

 

 

It is not enough to be 'right'. If you would be a teacher then you must consider not only what you say, but how you say it.

 

Please do share, that is a wonderful thing. When we try to judge though, we close our minds.

 

Have compassion. Share what you know, but understand that each person must learn in their own way, follow their own path.

 

Best,

 

Mike

 

Hi Mike, really appreciate you sharing this..do I come off a bit overbearing? I understand.. i have a tendency of having that arrogant 'know it all' attitude that definitely turns people off. my girlfriend tells me the same thing. how what i say does make sense but alot of the time its how I say it that turns people off.

 

it's something I have to work on.. thanks for pointing it out

 

mikael

Edited June 15, 2008 by mikaelz

[minkus]

Welcome back Mikaelz, yeah those illusions can be a boobytrap

 

Cu soon !

[mjjbecker]

..

Edited June 29, 2009 by mjjbecker

[Yoda]

HEY ALL,

 

THERE IS TO BE NO SHARING OF EBOOKS ON TAOBUMS OR THE TAOBUMS PM SYSTEM UNLESS THEY ARE ANTI-COPYRIGHTED.

 

NO EXCEPTIONS.

 

YOU CAN LEND PHYSICAL COPIES ON THE LENDING LIBRARY.

 

HONOR THE TEACHER WHO WROTE THE BOOK, THE SPIRIT OF TAOBUMS, AND TO SEAN WHO GENEROUSLY SUPPORTS THIS SITE AND WHO STICKS HIS NECK OUT FOR THE REST OF US.

 

IF ANYONE READS A POST WHERE SOMEONE OFFERS TO INFRINGE ON COPYRIGHTED MATERIAL, PLEASE ALERT SEAN TO THE SITUATION IMMEDIATELY.

 

THANK YOU.

 

YODA

[voidisyinyang]

OK I didn't click on the "synthesis of yoga" link -- but I assume it's AUROBINDO's book of the same title.

 

Here's the deal, again if you STUDY Sri Ramana Maharshi's books and those of his top students, DAVID GODMAN and H.W.L. POONJA aka "poonjaji" then you find that Ramana Maharshi DISAGREED WITH AUROBINDO.

 

Now, again, if you STUDY Aurobindo's books -- from the teachers at his Ashram -- here's what you find:

 

1) you're supposed to be celibate at Auroville -- but the original students of Aurobindo have strongly complained that the new students are shacking up and not taking the practice seriously.

 

2) H.W.L. Poonja made the SAME complaint about his Western students -- again mind yoga relies on sublimated sex energy.

 

-- For this reason the Western students are FAKE. Again DAVID GODMAN, the translator and close collaborator with Ramana Maharshi AND H.W.L. Poonja -- the master who replaced Ramana Maharshi -- BOTH state that ONLY six people have achieved Sahaja Samadhi.

 

Of course you don't WANT to believe this -- but why the fuck do you think Ramana Maharshi was a real master -- considered an avatar of Shiva, etc.?

 

So again you have to STUDY the actual books of the TEACHERS -- not some Western, New Age spin off.

 

So just read the book NOTHING EVER HAPPENED by the biography of H.W.L. Poonja BY DAVID GODMAN.

 

That's a fantastic book -- and sorry to "burst your bubble" -- but true sahaja samadhi is only after a person has technically killed themselves.

 

I wrote down the quotes on this and presented it to qigong master Chunyi Lin in a booklet that I was passing out to people in the "counter-culture" scene. He said in response:

 

THE ONLY THING I HAVEN'T ACHIEVED IS KILLING MYSELF -- and he looked at me with a sparkle in his eyes.

 

Again left-brain nondual philosophy is NOT the same as shamanism -- it's a religious priesthood practice whereby the Freemason Warrior Class -- the Iron Weapon makers -- PROTECT the Brahmins and also intervene again the older dravidian shamans.

 

you can read my ANTI-COPYRIGHT blogbook for all the documentation:

 

http://mothershiplanding.blogspot.com

[satyagraha]

drew, I can name at least 10 people off the top of my head who have had a real "death experience" from kunlun, your logic doesn't make any sense, many of the people I can think of have death experiences for longer periods of time than 10 minutes, their hearts and their breathing stop.

[voidisyinyang]

Here's what I say about that:

 

Right. My co-worker has done small universe a few times and he realized that his mind would wander so easily. The body is the best thing to focus on at first. So I thought I had gotten rid of all my shit this morning after drinking 64 oz. of water. Got to work and had no food but there was coffee left over. Drank a big glass and a glass of water and sure enough -- more shit came out. Don't know my own body! haha.

 

Yeah we're all just beginners. Just read the book "Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality" trans. by Charles Luk for details.

 

Kunlun is full of it.

[tumoessence]

Mikaelz,

 

I think that your sentiments are great but many masters like tenzin wangyal rinpoche while holding an absolute perspective are also shamans, and healers and energy practitioners and serve people where they're at in their growth in the moment. If we can be with whatever is happening in this moment then that should include all experiences and we can let go of all experiences as well.

Careful that the "idea" of the non dual is not dominant and watch out for non dual fundamentalism.

Bill

Edited June 15, 2008 by tumoessence