Converting Ching to Chi, Chi to Shen?

[mwight]

http://www.amazon.com/Tao-Meditation-Way-E.../dp/0804814651/

 

These are just some personal notes I typed up from reading this book, kind of like a cliff-notes version. The book imho is worth buying if found it wonderful, enjoyable and very easy to comprehend compared to other instructions on taoist meditation (e.g. Taoist Yoga, C. Luk)

 

If anyone has anything to add or correct, or any insights please share them.

 

 

Ching is the physical and sexual essence of the body.

 

Chi is the animating force of the body.

 

If Ching were a light bulb, chi would be the electricity making it shine.

 

Shen is the intelligent and guiding force behind our consciousness itself, the essence of consciousness and or spirit.

 

 

Converting Ching to Chi:

 

Celibacy is required for 100 days, to accumulate sexual energy (ching) for transmutation into chi.

 

Sit in full lotus if possible, palms upward resting hand in hand, tips of thumbs touching, eyes closed but focused on the tan tein, all awareness should be focused at the lower tan tein.

 

Begin by breathing as deeply and slowly(less is more) as possible (within comfort zones), these breaths should affect only the lower abdomen.

 

After achieving a deep state of relaxation, you can begin to contract anus, perineum, and genitals in a kegel like exercise, similar to the sensation of holding back the need to use the bathroom.

 

This stimulates sexual energy and begins to draw it up towards the tan tein, use imagined sensations to actually feel upward pressure coming from the perineum to the tan tein.

 

Practice this daily for as long as possible to allow sexual energy to increase resulting in noticeable pleasure.

 

During meditation allow this sexual pressure to build, but ignore sexual fantasies if they arise as they will derail your meditation.

 

Timing for the next step is crucial as if the pressure goes too far it could result in spontaneous orgasm, and release all the ching you have been accumulating. Make sure the tongue touches the roof of the mouth.

 

When the time is right, inhale fully and contract abdomen at the same time. Using your imagination actually and physically feel your breath traveling down through your abdomen, down to your perineum and then absorbing the sexual sensations, then it moves up the spine directly behind the tan tein.

 

Repeat this process, but each time go a little bit future with the sexual energy up the spine, until it is rolled around in the microcosmic orbit. (up and around to the the final resting place for it which is the lower tan tein, where it remains.)

 

If sexual feelings are still present after the orbit is complete repeat as many times as necessary, until feelings are gone, as this shows the ching is not completely converted and stored.

 

Converting Chi To Shen:

 

This step is to be followed in succession to Ching to Chi for at least 100 days of celibacy.

 

Sit in full lotus if possible, palms upward resting hand in hand, tips of thumbs touching, eyes closed but focused on the tan tein, all awareness should be focused at the lower tan tein.

 

Begin by breathing as deeply and slowly(less is more) as possible (within comfort zones), these breaths should affect only the lower abdomen. Make sure the tongue touches the roof of the mouth.

 

When inhaling Contract the stomach, and feel the breath starting at the perineum being pulled up like a rope, up the spine to the crown of the head.

 

When exhaling Expand the stomach and feel the breath being pushed down the front of the body and eventually to the perineum.

 

The next circulation exercises involve the same steps as before, except after reaching the tan tein it travels back up and out the arms to the fingertips, and then alternates to the legs down to the toes.

 

 

Eventually after practicing these exercises for long enough you forget your physical body, and can only feel the movement of energy along the channels. Your breathing slows to an almost unnoticeable level. Eventually you may have the experience of empty all encompassing light.

 

Sit in full lotus if possible, palms upward resting hand in hand, tips of thumbs touching, eyes closed but focused on the tan tein, all awareness should be focused at the lower tan tein.

 

Begin by breathing as deeply and slowly(less is more) as possible (within comfort zones), these breaths should affect only the lower abdomen.

 

Focus your attention now, to the an area between and behind the eyes, in the center of the brain. Look with your eyes as though you were looking inward at your third eye. Eventually this will lead to the experience of inner light. Eventually the light will grow brighter and even be able to be felt, its glow will be like bright moon light. After much practice you should be able to easily access this light.

 

At this point we learn to move the light from the third eye position down slowly to the lower tan tein. We move this light slowly up and down the front of the body, indefinitely.

 

Eventually breathing and heartbeat seem to completely stop, this state may continue for hours, or days even if time permits.

 

This may eventually lead to the experience of the void and the creation of a spiritual body which may leave your physical body of its own accord. The book goes into this more, but doesn't actually describe what to do at this point.

Edited June 15, 2008 by mwight

[Adam West]

Hey that was a great synopsis!! Thanks alot - most interesting and to the point!

 

I'm wondering how many people on this board have seriously practiced this kind of Taoist yoga. Please, if any have, share your experiences and any differences in your practice from this one.

 

Further, can anyone detail Taoist methods in the same vein that make the above practice safer and or indeed, more powerful and expedient in outcome?

 

I myself work with Buddhist Mind Yoga methods which completely bypass yogic breath and energy work, yet I am completely fascinated with this alternative.

 

In kind regards,

 

Adam.

Edited June 15, 2008 by Adam West

[Sunya]

Hey that was a great synopsis!! Thanks alot - most interesting and to the point!

 

I'm wondering how many people on this board have seriously practiced this kind of Taoist yoga. Please, if any have, share your experiences and any differences in your practice from this one.

 

Further, can anyone detail Taoist methods in the same vein that make the above practice safer and or indeed, more powerful and expedient in outcome?

 

I myself work with Buddhist Mind Yoga methods which completely bypass yogic breath and energy work, yet I am completely fascinated with this alternative.

 

In kind regards,

 

Adam.

 

 

Adam,

 

both are sides of the same coin, i have been taught similiar to you.. but have also in the past tried all these taoist yoga and hindu yoga of moving energy around. what i've been taught is that the chakras and tan tiens are not just physical points but areas of consciousness. so moving the energy from perinium up won't do as much as actually changing your lifestyle.. for instance not arguing anymore, being selfless, loving, caring, living in the moment. THIS is the best way to transmute your sexual energy because consciousness is everything. but consciously moving the energy up the spine works for some, i personally find it to be a crutch as it builds too much bodily awareness.

 

mikael

[mantis]

drew hempel is going to love this

 

this book basically is in complete agreeance with the idea you need full lotus to transmute the sexual energy

 

i'll do it, starting with a few minutes though, full lotus can be tough on your knees if you add too much at once

[Lighttime]

http://www.amazon.com/Tao-Meditation-Way-E.../dp/0804814651/

 

These are just some personal notes I typed up from reading this book, kind of like a cliff-notes version. The book imho is worth buying if found it wonderful, enjoyable and very easy to comprehend compared to other instructions on taoist meditation (e.g. Taoist Yoga, C. Luk)

 

If anyone has anything to add or correct, or any insights please share them.

Ching is the physical and sexual essence of the body.

 

Chi is the animating force of the body.

 

If Ching were a light bulb, chi would be the electricity making it shine.

 

Shen is the intelligent and guiding force behind our consciousness itself, the essence of consciousness and or spirit.

Converting Ching to Chi:

 

Celibacy is required for 100 days, to accumulate sexual energy (ching) for transmutation into chi.

 

Sit in full lotus if possible, palms upward resting hand in hand, tips of thumbs touching, eyes closed but focused on the tan tein, all awareness should be focused at the lower tan tein.

 

Begin by breathing as deeply and slowly(less is more) as possible (within comfort zones), these breaths should affect only the lower abdomen.

 

After achieving a deep state of relaxation, you can begin to contract anus, perineum, and genitals in a kegel like exercise, similar to the sensation of holding back the need to use the bathroom.

 

This stimulates sexual energy and begins to draw it up towards the tan tein, use imagined sensations to actually feel upward pressure coming from the perineum to the tan tein.

 

Practice this daily for as long as possible to allow sexual energy to increase resulting in noticeable pleasure.

 

During meditation allow this sexual pressure to build, but ignore sexual fantasies if they arise as they will derail your meditation.

 

Timing for the next step is crucial as if the pressure goes too far it could result in spontaneous orgasm, and release all the ching you have been accumulating. Make sure the tongue touches the roof of the mouth.

 

When the time is right, inhale fully and contract abdomen at the same time. Using your imagination actually and physically feel your breath traveling down through your abdomen, down to your perineum and then absorbing the sexual sensations, then it moves up the spine directly behind the tan tein.

 

Repeat this process, but each time go a little bit future with the sexual energy up the spine, until it is rolled around in the microcosmic orbit. (up and around to the the final resting place for it which is the lower tan tein, where it remains.)

 

If sexual feelings are still present after the orbit is complete repeat as many times as necessary, until feelings are gone, as this shows the ching is not completely converted and stored.

 

Converting Chi To Shen:

 

This step is to be followed in succession to Ching to Chi for at least 100 days of celibacy.

 

Sit in full lotus if possible, palms upward resting hand in hand, tips of thumbs touching, eyes closed but focused on the tan tein, all awareness should be focused at the lower tan tein.

 

Begin by breathing as deeply and slowly(less is more) as possible (within comfort zones), these breaths should affect only the lower abdomen. Make sure the tongue touches the roof of the mouth.

 

When inhaling Contract the stomach, and feel the breath starting at the perineum being pulled up like a rope, up the spine to the crown of the head.

 

When exhaling Expand the stomach and feel the breath being pushed down the front of the body and eventually to the perineum.

 

The next circulation exercises involve the same steps as before, except after reaching the tan tein it travels back up and out the arms to the fingertips, and then alternates to the legs down to the toes.

Eventually after practicing these exercises for long enough you forget your physical body, and can only feel the movement of energy along the channels. Your breathing slows to an almost unnoticeable level. Eventually you may have the experience of empty all encompassing light.

 

Sit in full lotus if possible, palms upward resting hand in hand, tips of thumbs touching, eyes closed but focused on the tan tein, all awareness should be focused at the lower tan tein.

 

Begin by breathing as deeply and slowly(less is more) as possible (within comfort zones), these breaths should affect only the lower abdomen.

 

Focus your attention now, to the an area between and behind the eyes, in the center of the brain. Look with your eyes as though you were looking inward at your third eye. Eventually this will lead to the experience of inner light. Eventually the light will grow brighter and even be able to be felt, its glow will be like bright moon light. After much practice you should be able to easily access this light.

 

At this point we learn to move the light from the third eye position down slowly to the lower tan tein. We move this light slowly up and down the front of the body, indefinitely.

 

Eventually breathing and heartbeat seem to completely stop, this state may continue for hours, or days even if time permits.

 

This may eventually lead to the experience of the void and the creation of a spiritual body which may leave your physical body of its own accord. The book goes into this more, but doesn't actually describe what to do at this point.

 

 

Great stuff. Thanks for posting. Check this link for more information about Ching-Chi-Shen-Tao transformation.

 

(Scroll down to Shih-Shui)http://www.littlenineheaven.com/l9h.html

 

drew hempel is going to love this

 

this book basically is in complete agreeance with the idea you need full lotus to transmute the sexual energy

 

i'll do it, starting with a few minutes though, full lotus can be tough on your knees if you add too much at once

Check the "Lotus Pose 101" for topic post for how to do Lotus Pose without harming your knees.

(Or just click here)-->

[seadog]

Thanks for the post M.

Ah the hundred days there in lies the issue

[jonstone]

I know about the 100 days of celibacy but in todays practical world, how about 100 days with strict semen retention?

 

Is lotus that necessary? Not that I have a prob with that but could you transmute the energy in a standing meditation?

[voidisyinyang]

Yeah this book looks really familiar and I'm pretty sure I read it maybe 6 years ago.....

 

So the 100 days means NO loss of the "precious bodily fluids" haha. I would still go with Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality.

 

You practice the small universe a lot -- plus simple standing exercises -- plus the Taoist Yoga diet -- plus lots of mind yoga. Again you can get the $11 level 1 sitting meditation c.d. with the small universe exercise on it from http://springforestqigong.com.

 

I was "innocent" in the sense I didn't realize this stuff would make me a "chic magnet" haha. So I avoided females -- just cause I was shy -- practiced about 4 hours a day and then increased it to 6 hours a day while fasting. That was while starting full-lotus about half way through. So full-lotus is not necessary but it helps a lot to quickly transform the jing to chi. Remember that your chi will be pulled down to jing and then down into sexual fluid -- by the desire of females (and your desire for them) and pervert males (perverts in the sense of either straight or not -- just that the pervert male's shen is focused in their sex chakra). The difference between females and pervert males -- for one - is that the female climax goes UP -- and does not switch to the stress system at climax. The whole point is to learn how to have female climaxes and once you convert enough jing to chi and finally open it up into shen -- then you can shoot the shen-chi into females and they can soak it up while you take in their jing energy. This creates a free energy exchange of mutual climaxes and this in turn opens up the heart chakra. Pervert males, in contrast, will try to pull your chi back down into sex fluid because the goal of the pervert male is to make MORE external sex fluid, thereby activating their stress system and YOUR stress system. As they do this more as an addictive cycle they then need to feed off more sexual energy of others WITHOUT being able to give others any shen-chi energy. Of course you can just shoot shen-chi into the pervert males, thereby not enable them to convert your shen-chi into sexual fluid -- but whether they convert your energy back into the stress fluid loss or not -- the energy you give them will still be used by THEM as stress fluid energy. Eventually they will learn that their approach is a loss for themselves.... still, I'd prefer to shoot my energy into females. haha.

[Sahaj Nath]

...so moving the energy from perinium up won't do as much as actually changing your lifestyle.. for instance not arguing anymore, being selfless, loving, caring, living in the moment. THIS is the best way to transmute your sexual energy because consciousness is everything. but consciously moving the energy up the spine works for some, i personally find it to be a crutch as it builds too much bodily awareness.

 

 

 

Obi-Wan has taught you well.

 

in my healing work i have many times come upon the limitations of direct fa gong manipulation of qi in the body. some illnesses just can't be touched unless there is a psychological breakthrough. it took me quite some time to realize the truth of your comment.

[Vajrasattva]

drew hempel is going to love this

 

this book basically is in complete agreeance with the idea you need full lotus to transmute the sexual energy

 

 

Total Horse Shit : )

 

 

 

I know about the 100 days of celibacy but in todays practical world, how about 100 days with strict semen retention?

 

More Horse Shit.....

 

 

Is lotus that necessary? Not that I have a prob with that but could you transmute the energy in a standing meditation?

 

any pose where the Spine is straight and suspended will work just fine.

 

The lotus "MYTH" is Horse Shit.

 

Do you see the Pharoes & the gods of Egypt in Lotus pose? NO

 

Do you see the Gods in Tantra in Lotus Pose????

 

NO....

 

Do not buy into this myth.

 

Santiago Dobles

Edited June 17, 2008 by Vajrasattva

[sheng zhen]

Total Horse Shit : )

More Horse Shit.....

So you are anti-full lotus. But are you saying that full lotus is to be avoided or just that is shouldnt be over-estimated as tradition might have done?

 

When you do full lotus, do you feel no difference to sitting with a straight back?

[Taiji Bum]

Nice post mwight, that was a good synopsis of The Tao of Meditation. I have that book and it's one of the better ones on Taoist alchemy. I like the way he talks like a researcher and not as a guru as if he has all the answers.

[mwight]

Nice post mwight, that was a good synopsis of The Tao of Meditation. I have that book and it's one of the better ones on Taoist alchemy. I like the way he talks like a researcher and not as a guru as if he has all the answers.

 

thanks.

 

 

 

drew,

 

I was wondering if you would mind summing up what you learned from taoist yoga by luk, (with out any harmonics theory),

You don't have to go into great detail just like an overview, just the points that stick out in your memory.

 

Thanks

Edited June 17, 2008 by mwight

[shontonga]

Total Horse Shit : )

More Horse Shit.....

any pose where the Spine is straight and suspended will work just fine.

 

The lotus "MYTH" is Horse Shit.

 

Do you see the Pharoes & the gods of Egypt in Lotus pose? NO

 

Do you see the Gods in Tantra in Lotus Pose????

 

NO....

 

Do not buy into this myth.

 

Santiago Dobles

 

Agree with that !

 

horse shtuff.

though important maybe while learning ?

 

another trick for me ... any find this true ?

is to have the hips open.

once you know the connections/pathways you can still find them

wether or not straight or someone has you folded in a pretzel and is sitting on you!

... as long as you've practiced and KNOW where they are.

much easier without someone sitting on you so you can breath though ; )

 

could be wrong with that ?

just what i find.

[Vajrasattva]

So you are anti-full lotus. But are you saying that full lotus is to be avoided or just that is shouldnt be over-estimated as tradition might have done?

 

 

I am not anti lotus I am anti people saying its a MUST to achieve things and enlightenment. Cause that is a FARSE......

 

When you do full lotus, do you feel no difference to sitting with a straight back?

 

Well here is the deal any time I suspend my spine energy is rushing through no matter what pose I am in.

 

So it doesn't matter what pose I am in.

 

You could devlope lotus sure but its not a MUST. I did it when I was younger along with hundreds of asanas. Asana can be any to achieve Enlightenment or self realization. The best asana is the one you can do every day at every moment that is the real yoga

 

and to be honest with you its an internal thing.

These are not in a particular order but you need all of them to succeed a solid balanced path.

 

1) breath control

2) lock or bandha & mudra

3) Inner Smile

4) circulation of energy, manipulation of energy. Thigle, channels, prana etc.

5) purifying & dissolving the 5 elements & chakras

6) Spinal Suspension

7) A sincere want to know the Divine & Energy & a sincere heart to responsibly use what you learn to help others.

 

peace

 

Santiago

Edited June 17, 2008 by Vajrasattva

[voidisyinyang]

This whole "anti" full-lotus schtick is HILARIOUS.

 

I sit in full-lotus as much as possible -- with no problem! At the dinner table with my parents (full-lotus). Watching movies (full-lotus). Typing right now! (full-lotus). In the car with my dad (full-lotus).

 

Meanwhile you all are freaking out about the full-lotus!

 

Taoist Yoga summary (my dad's waiting so....)

 

11 to 1 (day and night) is the BEST time to practice. You we feel the 3rd Eye automatically open up at 11 pm -- it happens to YOU -- not the other way around. The full-lotus is 4 hours of practice in 20 minutes time.

 

Just keep practicing the small universe and you'll feel the electromagnetic fields finally open up the pineal gland.

 

But I recommend just taking ONE class with qigong master Chunyi Lin -- once you get the energy transmission there's no turning back! haha.

[Vajrasattva]

This whole "anti" full-lotus schtick is HILARIOUS.

 

I sit in full-lotus as much as possible -- with no problem! At the dinner table with my parents (full-lotus). Watching movies (full-lotus). Typing right now! (full-lotus). In the car with my dad (full-lotus).

 

Meanwhile you all are freaking out about the full-lotus!

 

Taoist Yoga summary (my dad's waiting so....)

 

11 to 1 (day and night) is the BEST time to practice. You we feel the 3rd Eye automatically open up at 11 pm -- it happens to YOU -- not the other way around. The full-lotus is 4 hours of practice in 20 minutes time.

 

Just keep practicing the small universe and you'll feel the electromagnetic fields finally open up the pineal gland.

 

But I recommend just taking ONE class with qigong master Chunyi Lin -- once you get the energy transmission there's no turning back! haha.

 

 

Drew your mommy & daddy still wipe your own ass : )

 

So your lotus pose has done nothing for you to master this realm : )

 

I want you to know that i do like you and enjoy your posts but you are where you are cause of the Grace of the GOD/Universe, the Chi from your teacher & from your own energy. The lotus pose is secondary to all that.

 

You want to sit around in Lotus pose all day be my guest I much more prefer the pose I am in 24/7 as I actually interact with the real world.

 

And by the way you want to talk about asanas that will open you up faster than a bat out of hell?

 

The only poses that will superceed any others energetically are the ones you do in Chakra Puja with a woman!

 

There is a reason those have been kept so secret.

 

One cycle of Chakra Puja is like doing 100 hours of advanced meditation by yourself in any asana (one cycle can be like 10 min if done fast. The slower the cycle the more advanced the development in Chakra Puja.

 

Peace

 

Santiago

Edited June 17, 2008 by Vajrasattva

[Vajrasattva]

Agree with that !

 

horse shtuff.

though important maybe while learning ?

 

Only important if you want to focus on it but not the "Needed". More important is to learn to breath. and circulate chi.

 

another trick for me ... any find this true ?

is to have the hips open.

 

 

YES

KWAS MUST OPEN!

 

once you know the connections/pathways you can still find them

wether or not straight or someone has you folded in a pretzel and is sitting on you!

... as long as you've practiced and KNOW where they are.

much easier without someone sitting on you so you can breath though ; )

 

 

Even better when woman is on your YUB YUM with you!

 

 

 

Santiago

[sheng zhen]

I am not anti lotus I am anti people saying its a MUST to achieve things and enlightenment. Cause that is a FARSE......

 

You could devlope lotus sure but its not a MUST.

I totally agree, it is not a MUST. But it is not horse shmock either. Its a wonderful meditation posture and something I certainly wouldnt scare anyone away from, but rather encourage anyone who is interested to learn it in a balanced way.

 

Your campaign really looks like it is AGAINST full lotus.

[Vajrasattva]

I totally agree, it is not a MUST. But it is not horse shmock either. Its a wonderful meditation posture and something I certainly wouldnt scare anyone away from, but rather encourage anyone who is interested to learn it in a balanced way.

 

Your campaign really looks like it is AGAINST full lotus.

 

 

How could I be any clearer?

 

I said its a good asana however its not a MUST.

[voidisyinyang]

OK so my dad's in the car. I go, sit in full-lotus, a drive down to the village store. He parks while going into the post office. A young female and her dad walk by. The pineal gland shoots energy into her, she's sucking it up, my vagus nerve pulsating. Mutual climax. They go into the post office. Come out -- her dad says hi to me and I say hi back -- smiles everyone!

 

That's my life -- O at a Ds with the dog last night. He needs healing -- 13 years old! His back legs barely work. Full-lotus for about an hour next to him -- hands on him -- sucking up his extra energy (disharmonized electrochemicals) -- transforming it into chi-light through the full-lotus -- vagus nerve pulsating -- pineal gland shooting it back into the dog.

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=R4W-DivEw...esult#PPA306,M1

 

And so it goes.

[Vajrasattva]

OK so my dad's in the car. I go, sit in full-lotus, a drive down to the village store. He parks while going into the post office. A young female and her dad walk by. The pineal gland shoots energy into her, she's sucking it up, my vagus nerve pulsating. Mutual climax. They go into the post office. Come out -- her dad says hi to me and I say hi back -- smiles everyone!

 

That's my life -- O at a Ds with the dog last night. He needs healing -- 13 years old! His back legs barely work. Full-lotus for about an hour next to him -- hands on him -- sucking up his extra energy (disharmonized electrochemicals) -- transforming it into chi-light through the full-lotus -- vagus nerve pulsating -- pineal gland shooting it back into the dog.

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=R4W-DivEw...esult#PPA306,M1

 

And so it goes.

 

 

God bless you drew.

 

Lay off the crack

[gendao]

Hey that was a great synopsis!! Thanks alot - most interesting and to the point!

Yes, thanks M!

 

It seems to simplify it down to the key basics.

Obi-Wan has taught you well.

 

in my healing work i have many times come upon the limitations of direct fa gong manipulation of qi in the body. some illnesses just can't be touched unless there is a psychological breakthrough. it took me quite some time to realize the truth of your comment.

I agree, I believe the energetic (qi) level is just one level above the physical.

 

But even deeper than that is the emotional/core issue level. This is the real master switch for a lot of manifold problems downstream.

 

Which is not to say that conventional psychotherapy is the answer. More like spiritually-intuitive psychotherapy that can really trace issues back to their origins - which are often buried in subconscious microdramas or past lives. (And so often not something that would fall within the anti-spiritual paradigm of 20th century materialistic psychology.)

 

I feel it's important for people to clear their own personal issues as well and not just follow an impersonal, blind, mechanical methodology. This branch sometimes gets glossed over or neglected in orthodox training methods. But learning our soul lessons is an important purpose of our lives here. So, how can you neglect that? And personal problems can block our "mechanical" progress, anyways...

7) A sincere want to know the Divine & Energy & a sincere heart to responsibly use what you learn to help others.

Agreed. Remember, the universe is ultimately personal, and not an impersonal machine. It talks back and cares. Therefore, I believe sheer mechanical technique will only get you so far.

KWAS MUST OPEN!

Even better when woman is on your YUB YUM with you!

True, and I think that's one of the purposes of full-lotus. Opening your kwa. This would open your root and give you more energetic pressure from below to push up, right? Edited June 17, 2008 by vortex

[sheng zhen]

How could I be any clearer?

 

I said its a good asana however its not a MUST.

Yes you did say that. I just reacted on you jumping in on every post mentioning full lotus calling hoarse shite. Its ok thought, I totally agree that it is not a must, but I do love it and work to master it every day

 

So what is your experience about full lotus? In which way does(or did) it affect you?

[Loveherbs]

Deleted

Edited September 13, 2015 by Loveherbs