...

[三江源]

.

Edited July 18, 2014 by cat

[Xienkula1]

And the notion that 'when you love yourself...you dont need love for yourself, and can give freely as a result..."

 

Do you think this is true? Or desirable?

 

Is there anyone here striving to not need love?

 

Isnt being loved as much a part of being human as loving?

 

If your practises have extended your capacity to give love and to readily feel love, what has it done to your need for love?

 

Let's discuss this issue of what happens to our needs, and how they are transformed by our practises.

 

For myself, hmmm... I have a lot of love in my life and I am very attached to it, to the daily giving and receiving. I think anyone who has children will feel the same. I dont like the idea of not having daily love in my life.. is this a weakness?

 

Am I a love addict?!

It makes a lot of sense to me that if I hold any part of myself outside of acceptance, then I am not fully present with myself. Part of me is in denial and so all of me isn't available to love someone else. Only when I have embraced everything for real can love myself, and it is only then that I can be truly loving, whatever I have been unable to love in myself, I will be incapable of loving in another, until I have found acceptance within. Being loving, means embracing the ego and body too, stopping to blame them for all our problems, and instead balance with them, at least in the Taoist Path.

My practices, when I make sure to do them, do open me to receive love. In Hsin Tao, we receive love from heaven. This is a sublime practice. As we do the movements, it is like making love with the universe. A deep part one's being experiences fulfillment. You give it to yourself, and as you let go, you receive more. It's not an technique but a phenomenon. It affects patterns in relationships. Instead of wanting to strangle each other, goading and irritating each other, those patterns subside, and you can savor the moments in between. Inside the patterns are no longer so strong, as the practice primes one's soul muscles, trains one's inner strength instead of posturing with externals. One no longer feels ashamed of one's vulnerabilities, in embracing them, they become a source of strength. No, I don't think love is a weakness.

[sheng zhen]

And the notion that 'when you love yourself...you dont need love for yourself, and can give freely as a result..."

 

Do you think this is true? Or desirable?

 

Is there anyone here striving to not need love?

 

Isnt being loved as much a part of being human as loving?

 

If your practises have extended your capacity to give love and to readily feel love, what has it done to your need for love?

 

Let's discuss this issue of what happens to our needs, and how they are transformed by our practises.

 

For myself, hmmm... I have a lot of love in my life and I am very attached to it, to the daily giving and receiving. I think anyone who has children will feel the same. I dont like the idea of not having daily love in my life.. is this a weakness?

 

Am I a love addict?!

I wrote a little about how I feel about love in another thread. Ive spend so many years filling my heart with love, radiating love to everyone I met, lovelovelove all day long trying to understand the love of God.

 

But after I realized God loves both the rapist and the raped, the killer and the killed, the grain of sand and the galaxies, I see that there is no need for me to push my love onto other people or things. There is more than enough as it is everywhere.

 

And because it is more than enough everywhere, at all times, through all eons, and still people go through hardships, pain and death, I see that the love I give is so small and tiny it is like adding one single drop of water to the ocean, within the ocean. I dont feel the need to fill my heart with love anymore. Or to push my love onto those the I feel need it. Who am I to decide if it is my love they need? Maby what they really need to wake up is a good slap in the face or a kick in the butt? Ive seen so many people use love just to continue rambling in their old illusions.

[rain]

It makes a lot of sense to me that if I hold any part of myself outside of acceptance, then I am not fully present with myself. Part of me is in denial and so all of me isn't available to love someone else. Only when I have embraced everything for real can love myself, and it is only then that I can be truly loving, whatever I have been unable to love in myself, I will be incapable of loving in another, until I have found acceptance within. Being loving, means embracing the ego and body too, stopping to blame them for all our problems, and instead balance with them, at least in the Taoist Path.

My practices, when I make sure to do them, do open me to receive love. In Hsin Tao, we receive love from heaven. This is a sublime practice. As we do the movements, it is like making love with the universe. A deep part one's being experiences fulfillment. You give it to yourself, and as you let go, you receive more. It's not an technique but a phenomenon. It affects patterns in relationships. Instead of wanting to strangle each other, goading and irritating each other, those patterns subside, and you can savor the moments in between. Inside the patterns are no longer so strong, as the practice primes one's soul muscles, trains one's inner strength instead of posturing with externals. One no longer feels ashamed of one's vulnerabilities, in embracing them, they become a source of strength. No, I don't think love is a weakness.

--------------

 

to be vulnerable is human, to be loved, love and to be included. i believe every embrace was important sheng zhen.

 

really deep and sincere thanks for posting and introducing the poet, Audre Lorde. do you know of a hsin tao teacher in Norway

 

rain

Edited June 16, 2008 by rain

[rex]

If your practice connects you to a source of unconditional love then the love you manifest to others doesn't have to have some kind of business relationship element to it where it has to be reciprocated. Life being as it is, love is returned in one way or another.

 

Love is patient, love is kind.

It does not envy, it does not boast,

it is not proud.

It is not rude, it is not self-seeking,

it is not easily angered,

it keeps no record of wrongs.

Love does not delight in evil

but rejoices with the truth.

It always protects, always trusts,

always hopes, always perseveres.

Love never fails.

 

1 Corinthians 13:4 -

Edited June 16, 2008 by rex

[Apech]

I think that there is a difference between loving and being loved and 'needing it'. And I wonder if we need it too much then the love gets strangled. When your children grow they will need to leave to become individuals in the proper sense and this sometimes can involve a feeling of rejection in the parents. But love which does not alter "when it alternation finds" (Shakespeare) will let them go with good blessings because it goes beyond needing.

 

"Let me not to the marriage of true minds

 

Admit impediments. Love is not love

 

Which alters when it alteration finds,

 

Or bends with the remover to remove:

 

O no! it is an ever-fixed mark

 

That looks on tempests and is never shaken;

 

It is the star to every wandering bark,

 

Whose worth's unknown, although his height be taken.

 

Love's not Time's fool, though rosy lips and cheeks

 

Within his bending sickle's compass come:

 

Love alters not with his brief hours and weeks,

 

But bears it out even to the edge of doom.

 

If this be error and upon me proved,

 

I never writ, nor no man ever loved."

 

 

 

William Shakespeare

 

(1564 - 1616)

[三江源]

.

Edited July 18, 2014 by cat

[emily]

There is only love. I think we try and put it in boxes, different types of love because of fear. I look at it as a frequency we tap into an "be" in. I am either "in" love or not. It is not conditional.

 

It is the eyes through which I see the world, not that which I see.

 

 

Haha that sounded corny.

[mjjbecker]

..

Edited June 29, 2009 by mjjbecker

[Xienkula1]

Hi Xienkula

 

Can you tell me, in this practise, is it held with conscious intent, that you will receive love from Heaven? Is it explicit in that sense, as part of the practise, or is it something that happens as a result of the practise?

 

Hello Cat!

 

I'm still very much a beginner in this practice, but it seems to me yes there is a conscious intent, along with an awareness that grows.

 

It is not in forcing or pushing or grasping for love, but rather a process of opening up, or just "being open," receiving from Heaven effortlessly, then feeling and letting go.

 

Blessings enter in above the third eye from Heaven and sink down the central channel to the Dan Tian, Will center, filling it up combined with breathing, that is simply witnessed and allowed, neither forced nor resisted.

 

When the term Heaven is used, it is meant to express whatever way you see the Creative life force, in whatever form you find acceptance for it. It could be a diety, it could be Archetype, Source, God, Divinity, Lightening, Spirit, Unity of Unities, Unified Field, Immaculate Emptiness, a Unified You or All of It.

 

To me this "love" happens during the practice and lingers after. It becomes difficult to distinguish whether it is the result of doing either with conscious intent or just going through the movements, because this practice, evokes a state of being that seems beyond both. Maybe it is just what is there when we choose to open up and let go of concepts. Still a lot of work left. My experience tells me just consciously appealing to Love or Grace and being present may have a tremendous impact, but sometimes "training wheels" can support us in that state.

 

 

Thanks for your responses, people.

 

Love between humans.

 

Love from heaven and for Heaven. ( for want of a 'better' word)

 

Do these two types of love meet the same need?

 

If we dont feel loved, by heaven, or by others around us... this is not a state in which to flourish, is it. Because ....God is Love.

 

(Just to clarify, I use the word 'need' not in the sense of neurotic dependancy or compulsion, but in the sense of basic human needs, such as for food and water.)

 

These two types of love can to some degree meet the same need, but it depends on the characteristics of each individual and on how each connects with that Love. Same needs that will take different forms, as many forms as there are in existence. For some who choose, I think it could be possible but very rare. Heavenly Love could meet the same need, and at the same time. In your mind/heart, you could bridge the heavenly and human realms together and see how emotions respond, in some ways all love may be descended from the same source. I saw a huge Rainbow with the sunrise over the mountain doing my dimented version of standing kunlun 1 this morning, and yesterday there was lightening in the same place

 

--------------

 

do you know of a hsin tao teacher in Norway

 

rain

 

Enjoy!

 

I will find out and ask my friend in Germany who is becoming a teacher, I think she may know of some people in Norway who are practicing.

 

Xienkula.

[Xienkula1]

repeat.

Edited June 16, 2008 by Xienkula1

[rex]

Love between humans.

 

Love from heaven and for Heaven. ( for want of a 'better' word)

 

Do these two types of love meet the same need?

 

If we dont feel loved, by heaven, or by others around us... this is not a state in which to flourish, is it. Because ....God is Love.

It's been a while since I read it but Platos' Symposium goes in to these sorts of questions.

[三江源]

.

Edited July 18, 2014 by cat

[三江源]

.

Edited July 18, 2014 by cat

[sheng zhen]

to be vulnerable is human, to be loved, love and to be included. i believe every embrace was important sheng zhen.

Yes, rain! Every embrace and expression of love is important! Very important! But still not any more important that expression of not-love, if we look at the big picture.

 

If we look at the fact that we are souls being reborn again and again in different personalities with different fates, having eperienced every aspect of life, both good and bad... the love we then feel is not an emotional love like "Oh my God my heart is so full of love I need to hug someone now because I feel they need it! I need to tell them they are loved so that they dont feel their pain anymore!!!".

 

Its more the kind of love that is accepting of everything, realizing that all is passing, both good and bad. I can watch the news and accept what I see, instead of doing all I can to pour my fantastic amazing Gods love on to the whole world believing I am doing the world a favour. I can meet my friends and accept their pain and help them deal with it, instead of trying to pour them full of my love so that their pain is lulled like a benzodiazepine.

 

I can do that too, of course, there is nothing wrong with that. But to believe that loving in that way is the answer to all problems, that is a fantacy and a trap too many new-agers fall into.

 

When ego feels loved it feels good. But that good feeling is not neccecarily what we need. Maby we need to get our ass up get a job istead. Maby we need to tell that stupid neighbour to fuck off because that might be an even better expression of love if it could help the neighbour to see what he really is doing to those around him. Maby we need to eat more healthy to heal ourself instead of sitting projecting our love on those who dont really need it.

 

I used to spin my merkabah 33000 trillion times the speed of GODHIMSELF into unconditional eternal wonderful love and I burst it out to the whole city and all my friends and all the world. You can imagine the love I felt! It didnt help at all. People still had the same problems, issues, etc. But it helped me when I stopped projecting because then I realized that kind of love is not for me to control.

[Vajrasattva]

Breath Smile Love and be Compassionate as much as possible do not attache your self to love only on being compassionate.

 

Its hard some times but its worth it.

 

: )

[Taomeow]

Much love out there is not real, IMO, and here's how you can tell:

 

if it's a child who is getting love from Heaven instead of love from mom and dad, it's not real;

if it's a man who's giving love to Heaven instead of to wife and kids, it's not real;

if it's a woman who's giving love to a man who isn't giving love to her it's not real;

if it's a student who's giving love to teacher instead of dad it's not real;

and so on.

 

Real love is very simple -- and the hardest thing to find in Kali Yuga period we're currently stuck in, if you want to go Hindu on the explanations. If it's fancy, it isn't where it's at. Love... it's not an agenda, it's a feeling. It's some normal status quo when you have it, you don't even have to be old enough to know the word to know whether you have it or not -- just like you spontaneously know that you walk on the floor with more natural ease than on the ceiling. Alas, many are forced to take a walk on the ceiling (or Heaven, whatever) in search of it -- just because the kind that's underfoot, that used to be ubiquitous, is presently extinct. As John Lennon put it, "how can I give love if love is something I never had?" He was referring to not having been given it by mom and dad, of course. If you don't get, you have none to give, it's as simple as money in the bank.

[rain]

Yes, rain! Every embrace and expression of love is important! Very important! But still not any more important that expression of not-love, if we look at the big picture.

 

If we look at the fact that we are souls being reborn again and again in different personalities with different fates, having eperienced every aspect of life, both good and bad... the love we then feel is not an emotional love like "Oh my God my heart is so full of love I need to hug someone now because I feel they need it! I need to tell them they are loved so that they dont feel their pain anymore!!!".

 

Its more the kind of love that is accepting of everything, realizing that all is passing, both good and bad. I can watch the news and accept what I see, instead of doing all I can to pour my fantastic amazing Gods love on to the whole world believing I am doing the world a favour. I can meet my friends and accept their pain and help them deal with it, instead of trying to pour them full of my love so that their pain is lulled like a benzodiazepine.

 

I can do that too, of course, there is nothing wrong with that. But to believe that loving in that way is the answer to all problems, that is a fantacy and a trap too many new-agers fall into.

 

When ego feels loved it feels good. But that good feeling is not neccecarily what we need. Maby we need to get our ass up get a job istead. Maby we need to tell that stupid neighbour to fuck off because that might be an even better expression of love if it could help the neighbour to see what he really is doing to those around him. Maby we need to eat more healthy to heal ourself instead of sitting projecting our love on those who dont really need it.

 

I used to spin my merkabah 33000 trillion times the speed of GODHIMSELF into unconditional eternal wonderful love and I burst it out to the whole city and all my friends and all the world. You can imagine the love I felt! It didnt help at all. People still had the same problems, issues, etc. But it helped me when I stopped projecting because then I realized that kind of love is not for me to control.

 

--------------------

there you have it. you are beautiful.

[xenolith]

Love charges the dynamo, the engine of spiritual evolution. You, the self, devoid of ego...the eternal self, when you choose to Love, charge your dynamo...and therefore evolve. Not all will understand. S'Okay. Women will.

[三江源]

.

Edited July 18, 2014 by cat

[Ian]

Nearly everything we think of as love is attachment.

 

Would you be upset if the person disappeared or didn't want to see you anymore?

Would that interfere with feeling the love in your body?

 

If so, attachment.

[hagar]

It has become quite evident to me that there is Love and there is the emotion "love".

 

If I was a better man, I'd know what to do when I had one and not the other.

 

This is a subject I think that is very difficult to put into words, and I should remain silent.

 

h

[rain]

Edited June 17, 2008 by rain

[Xienkula1]

[Taomeow]

Nice to see you too, Cat!

 

 

What do you think happened to John? Was Yoko his Mama? He is ever to remain her gifted child, preserved as a puer aeternus by his death?

Or what do you think? If you care to speculate, I'd be interested.

 

He called her "Mother," at least before Primal therapy he did, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't after. Interestingly, Yoko "adopted" him after losing her own daughter to a hostile divorce.

 

John's Plastic Ono Band album is full of revelations, by the way, brought about by his primal expedition. Love is Real, Real is Love is the truth. Children, don't do what I have done is another one. I don't believe in Jesus, etc... -- another one. Mother!! -- THE truth. It's really sad and strange how certain people who are, by virtue of their position in life, equipped to make a dent, somehow die as soon as they find out what the truth is about.

 

Sometimes I suspect foul play -- often -- but not always... Have you ever read The Bridge of St. Louis Rey (I have to doublecheck the wording of the title, it was long ago), by Thornton Wilder? A bridge collapses, killing a bunch of travelers who happened to be on it at that time. The life story of each one of them follows -- up to the ending point when this person has found himself or herself on the bridge. Each story leads to an unavoidable conclusion that the protagonist, after much conflict, confusion, false starts, pain, mistakes, loss, etc., has found the truth, some kind of personal truth, some meaning and peace inside. And even though it was an accident, once you know all the stories, it becomes clear it wasn't, all their missions happened to have been accomplished -- nothing else of much importance to understand in THIS life. I often thought of John this way, as someone who died on a similar kind of bridge, at a similar moment, for a similar reason.

Edited June 18, 2008 by Taomeow