The "Get a Job, Have a Wife, Make a Child , Get a Life" Thread

[Ian]

 

i don't know. part of the reason this thread disturbs me is because i feel judged for the way that i live. and part of the reason i feel that way is because i judge myself for it, as if i should want the wife and kids and good-paying job if i'm a healthy person. but i don't. i value my freedom above all the rest of it. i feel better able to serve my students and friends and clients because of the life that i lead. and i like that there are times when i need to leave the world and will spend weeks or months in seclusion somewhere as i travel deeper inward. even if that part of me was born out of a broken youth, i still like it. i feel more complete when i'm alone.

 

or maybe it's just a convenient belief system to protect me from future pain. i may not be in the best position to discern which one it is.

 

Maybe both. That wouldn't be wrong.

 

Beautiful, honest post, btw.

[Patrick Brown]

I would never have kids on my own. To adopt seems much more rewarding and noble to me, that will test a lot more things and much better in my opinion. As for marriage, dear god...it's evident that all these things are pure obsessions of the ego and pressure from society.

 

It hides the fear of insecurity in people, of not being alone, the relief that life goes on, and the relief that you are special. To me, 90% of people getting married and having kids clearly feel that way, so they do it thinking they will get relief. Actually most of them don't even think about anything, they just do it. After all and if they are lucky they do get something, a perfect illusion. Wise people know better, they already know they are not alone, that life goes on and that they are special. They don't need to prove it to anyone else, including themselves.

 

And of course, i'm not denying that the other 10% (i would say a lot less than that...) get wonderful and loving experiences from it! I definitely agree that family life, childs and the whole thing is a wonderful experience, but handled by wonderful individuals only. I doubt this world and most of us are remotely ready to handle it.

I agree with most of this but I still need other people. I've spent a lot of my life alone and I've been OK with it. Relationships have often, but not always, served to highlight my inadequacies and insecurities and have brought me more pain than happiness. When examined closely the inadequacies and insecurities were found to be unreal.

 

In comparing yourself to others you only highlight your inadequacies which in turn feeds your insecurities. Therefore strive to not feed your insecurities, resolve your inadequacies by not making judgements and thereby find yourself.

 

I'm not saying I've achieved this but I'm working on it. In fact I'm probably doing worse than most people but then that would explain my clarity!

[awake0ness]

Having a spouse and children helps you to 'get out of yourself', and be more selfless (if you choose to be).

 

The challenge I found sometimes was remaining centred among all this service to others.

 

I loved family life, feel the love (see recent love post!)

 

David

[Patrick Brown]

Having a spouse and children helps you to 'get out of yourself', and be more selfless (if you choose to be).

 

The challenge I found sometimes was remaining centred among all this service to others.

 

I loved family life, feel the love (see recent love post!)

 

David

I figure more and less self are the same thing. Think of day and night on the earth or perhaps the moon phases.

 

[宁]

Great posts everyone

 

I'm so glad that this one thread has so much enthusiastic posts, they are greatly needed on the Taobums.

Many of you have observed that need and posted very nice advices on other threads.

 

 

There's one question:

How can we make this sane and common-sensical ideas,

sensible, or palatable to the ones that need to receive them?

It's a bitter pill to swallow for most of them, so what can we do, when in response to these pills, they start gargling up fantasy theories?

This pill, this elixir, ingredient, that most of us family folks have developed, can it cure others too?

Should it?

 

Thanks

 

Little

[lino]

Just because some other turd bit on the "Get a Job, Have a Wife, Make a Child , Get a Life" con job doesn't mean that I have too.

 

A society that lives outside of it's means has no business telling me how to run my life.

 

I'll take the ten year loss on life expectancy. The trade off is worth it. Life is more manageable and more peaceful.

[Yoda]

as if i should want the wife and kids and good-paying job if i'm a healthy person. but i don't.

 

Hundun,

 

Amen brother!!! Right now, my family is off on their summer trip to Pittsburg for a few weeks and I absolutely love it. All you married people with kids... you don't know what you are missing!!! Suckers!!

 

My above post was more pro-stay-in-society rather than pro-marriage or pro-children. I just counted up my college friends and out of 19 all about the age of 40 there are only 10 children. That's what I like about the modern world: it's all good.

 

Many westernized countries are like this. Absolutely nobody gets married in South Korea anymore, but they are an extreme example... their government is even forcing them to take time off work to take romantic vacations and courtship classes so their nation won't disapear! The birth rate stats in western countries also include immigrants who have lots of kids, so the statistics don't tell the full story.

 

Personally, I like being married with kids but I ***totally get it*** that there are huge pluses to going in either direction.

 

The nice thing about family life is the cozy companionship and partnership in lots of things... your energies can focus and build together very powerfully. The gigantic problem with family life is that there's no off switch to this mind merge...

 

While I like being married, I much prefer single friends... they are much less controlled by the groupmind and more independent. When they get married, I lose half of them; when they have kids, I lose all of them except for one weekend every few years.

 

The issue my single friends face is that their parents really don't respect their decision and that is tough to deal with sometimes.

 

Your pal,

Yoda

[Yoda]

Rachel,

 

You are an unschooler!! Randi and I are "semi-schoolers": I'm an unschooler and she's a 50-50 unschooler but she's ultimately in charge. Of course, it's not so much the structure but the energy behind the structure or lack thereof that counts. Is your state cool with unschooling? We are in South Carolina, so it's anything goes down here... homeschooling is all the rage.

 

Your pal,

Kyle

[宁]

Just because some other turd bit on the "Get a Job, Have a Wife, Make a Child , Get a Life" con job doesn't mean that I have too.

 

A society that lives outside of it's means has no business telling me how to run my life.

 

I'll take the ten year loss on life expectancy. The trade off is worth it. Life is more manageable and more peaceful.

 

that was so rude

The "Get a job, have a wife, make a child, get a life" - is the Confucian part of the training, it gives the practice a grounding effect that can hardly be replaced with something else.

We are not really the ones that run our own life.

 

I know the American sense of private property can see the last sentence at least a bit foggy, but... it's how it is, no exceptions.

Peace = nothing happening.

 

 

L1

[lino]

that was so rude

The "Get a job, have a wife, make a child, get a life" - is the Confucian part of the training, it gives the practice a grounding effect that can hardly be replaced with something else.

We are not really the ones that run our own life.

 

I know the American sense of private property can see the last sentence at least a bit foggy, but... it's how it is, no exceptions.

Peace = nothing happening.

L1

 

The whole point is "nothing happening"

 

I have one high grade A prospect right now that I could think of doing all of the normal life stuff..."Have a wife, have a kid..." other than that I can't really see myself getting married.

[CosmoGeek]

Only one objection -- that's cultural, not personal. Watching a baby coming out has been taboo for men in all cultures since the dawn of time and till it was introduced here-now for reasons I don't want to go into so as not to start swearing. All healthy animals hide in a dark, quiet place in order to give birth. We the domesticated ones don't know better because we ourselves weren't born the right way.

 

The doctor who delivered my twins was a woman, but she was the wrong kind -- screaming, pushy, bossy, noisy, meddling... all kinds of wrong. And she didn't let me squat, which is something my body was begging me to do. Well, at least there were no drugs of any kind, epidurals, all that deadening horror. It was, of course, extremely painful, but the beauty of feeling it instead of not feeling it is, once it's over, it's gone -- only an hour later, I could retrieve no memory of the pain, it was nowhere in me anymore, even though I went through it fully conscious. "Felt" means processed, processed means released. "Not felt" means unprocessed, unprocessed means stuck. Anyway... Giving a natural birth to my son and daughter changed me on the spot into someone whom I instantly found way, way more interesting than who I was before. I've done many practices since, but nothing has ever come close.

 

I don't think the numbed-out women hooked to IVs quite know what the process is about. I mean, they do get the child at the other end of the unfeeling ordeal, but they don't get to learn much about their bodies, their bodyminds, or any of the things that a woman can't really learn any other way. No practice is as closely monitored by tao herself, as guided by her, as embraced by her as this one. This takes you right where tao's at, causes you to merge with her and know her mind.

 

I hear ya. My wife went for the no-drug midwife approach for the last couple of kids, and that was a much better experience for her than the drugged up M.D. approach. As for doing it alone and in the dark... I don't know... Childbirth is very tough on human females compared to other mammals. They typically can use some help in getting the babies out!

 

Anyway, I agree that it seems natural that the child delivery process be "womens' work." But in the old times, the midwife and her helpers would be very familiar to the mother (probably living in the same small village, etc.). These days, it is probably better for the mother to have a supportive husband present than to be completely surrounded by strangers while giving birth.

 

A woman giving birth is truly amazing. You are lucky to be female and have had the experience!

[Eric23]

I was present at both my kid's arrival. I recall getting an earfull from my wife on both occaisions; something about it all being my (and my penis') fault. My daughter was a difficult delivery and she tore my wife. My wife had no desire whatsoever to hold our daughter during the suturing, so the nurse gave Rachel to me. We had a very special bonding time; then she became a teenager

 

I'm from a generation where we were expected to go to school, get married and have a beautiful family (in that order). The get a job, have a wife, make a child thing just kind of happened in a blur. There were times when I really wished I had some time for myself before jumping in. Looking back, I was lucky to have married a woman who has become my best friend, otherwise we would have split long ago. I enjoyed raising the children, particularly watching then learn when they were younger. Having a couple of teenagers in the house just about did me in. The reward however is the grandchild(ren). My little grand daughter is quite the princess and grandpa enjoys letting her wrap him around her finger

[宁]

The whole point is "nothing happening"

 

I have one high grade A prospect right now that I could think of doing all of the normal life stuff..."Have a wife, have a kid..." other than that I can't really see myself getting married.

 

"nothing happening" is how taoist get to live in a can, canned taoists, who's life is centered only on their own person.

if you un-can them, after 100 years, their are the same, nothing happened to them. nothing...

 

if that is what you are after, dont let me stop you

family life can be a cure for a canned taoist, but not universal panacea... dont get me wrong.

 

nice post ya'all

 

good luck

 

L1

[宁]

[Taomeow]

[WhiteTiger]

[宁]

Wo-ow, there ladies and gents! It's not my poem, the link beneath it goes to the one that wrote it.

I translated it in my native tongue, on my forum - my forum, that is, not the Taobums - and everyone enjoyed it so much.

That's why I thought maybe you guys and galls would love it too...

 

I liked it the very instant i read it. It spoke my mind exactly...

Enjoy it!

(In Romanian it sounds much much better though)

[Vigilant3]

Nothing really wrong with that though, as traditional familial roles. However, you can still have all that family stuff without legal marriage, and save yourself the risks and paperwork!

 

Of course, lawyers, family courts, event planners, jewelers, caterers, dressmakers and counselors might lose some of your disposable income, though...

 

I don't know how I feel about this one.

 

I mean, on the one hand it is clearly logical from a reflective perspective that one would stand to save money, time, and energy if avoiding the whole marriage ritual and that one would still have a solid and purposeful relationship with the one they love because at the end of the day, marriage is a man-made concept.

 

However...

 

Where do you we draw the line when "conforming" to norms? The time, money, and effort involved in the marriage process also brings with it a marriage license, which provides rights and provisions under the law, but also provides the couple with the mental sanity of knowing their families and the civilization around them "approve" of their union. I don't think it's that much of an effort when those benefits are included within the package.

 

Don't you think so too?

[宁]

in the light of the recent topics posted, i felt the need to

 

bump

 

[Smile]

Since you bumped, I can't resist.

DontGetMarried Forum

[Taiji Bum]

I'm going to have to send that poem to my gf. I'm just about balling my eyes out reading it. Thanks for bumping this topic.

[宁]

Since you bumped, I can't resist.

DontGetMarried Forum

 

 

Oh man, it's not about being married or not...

 

It's about fulfilling your destiny as a human being...

There are various roads to that, in various cultures, but most of them encompass what the title of this topic suggests, one way or another...

Without that, we have nothing...

It is said that one of the most important things in life is having no regrets of things you should have done, when you look back...

Having a wife (consort or what you want to name it)

Having a child

Having a workplace that allows you to express your nature

Having a social life, human energy interaction, is cultivating your human soul...

 

I am sure you knew all that, I just repeat them for the sake of repeating...

 

Peace

 

L1

 

 

PS: This alone of course will not take you too high, or too deep, but it's an excelent precursory to:

 

"Don't worry, your feelings about kids are normal adult male feelings...

No exceptions... i think...

Until it happens to you.

Then you become a complete man, Ren, if you please.

YM is right... the first way to immortality is thru your children. If you want to go beyond that, you would still need a first hand experience with it. Just to see the amount of dedication and real-life envolvement that it really means. Immortality is a high goal, with the little we do daily, it's just a farfetched dream.

Your kids will be the best teacher at what it means to become an immortal..."

 

Edited January 4, 2009 by Little1

[Mal]

L1 so you're telling us you're married with children

 

I can see how having to sacrifice yourself to look after your children would be "good cultivation". As you pointed out there is a huge amount of dedication and real-life involvement needed as well as putting your child's needs before your own.

 

But I know people who have children because it's the "thing to do" and basically continue to live their old lives and ignore their kids, it's very sad.

 

I also know couples where one person continues to live their life and burdens the other with "raising the kids"

i.e. the old husband - breadwinner wife-houskeeper/nanny model of marriage.

 

And I know many people get into this without thought, or by accident, and just have to live it out!

 

Personally it took us 2 years (no joke) to decide if we were responsible enough to look after kittens! Perhaps I'll regret not having kids. I do sometimes wish I'd picked a "mother" rather than a "friend" But the only way we could look after kids is if I decided to drop everything and become a house husband. The resentment at my "loss" would not make me a good Dad.

 

Others are doing enough to keep the population growing, it's not for me......

[宁]

L1 so you're telling us you're married with children

 

Heh, it's not that hard to do, everyone around us is doing it... The thing is, a practicioner can do it for a different reason, which can give it another meaning, and another function, another purpose... I wouldn't skip it... It gives you the complete meaning of becoming a human being... Yes, many of us practice just to transcend this stage, of humanity. The other door of it seems to be at the other end of this stage... We still need to go thru it... There's millions of years invested in this, in our bodies.

Many "powers" lie dormant, and Heaven will awake them at the moment that a father's heart blows out open, to enter that dimension of being where he needs to take care of his wife and child... With responsability comes power, and the other way around... Don't think it was an easy pie for me...

 

L1

[Smile]

Oh man, it's not about being married or not...

 

It's about fulfilling your destiny as a human being...

There are various roads to that, in various cultures, but most of them encompass what the title of this topic suggests, one way or another...

Without that, we have nothing...

It is said that one of the most important things in life is having no regrets of things you should have done, when you look back...

Having a wife (consort or what you want to name it)

Having a child

Having a workplace that allows you to express your nature

Having a social life, human energy interaction, is cultivating your human soul...

 

I am sure you knew all that, I just repeat them for the sake of repeating...

 

Peace

 

L1

 

 

PS: This alone of course will not take you too high, or too deep, but it's an excelent precursory to:

 

"Don't worry, your feelings about kids are normal adult male feelings...

No exceptions... i think...

Until it happens to you.

Then you become a complete man, Ren, if you please.

YM is right... the first way to immortality is thru your children. If you want to go beyond that, you would still need a first hand experience with it. Just to see the amount of dedication and real-life envolvement that it really means. Immortality is a high goal, with the little we do daily, it's just a farfetched dream.

Your kids will be the best teacher at what it means to become an immortal..."

 

L1, very interesting views you got there. I can only state my beliefs:

-No one can make you whole but yourself.

-if you want to experience what involves to have kids with all the lessons coming with it, fine. Doesn't mean you have to in this lifetime. You probably had similar lessons before in other lifetimes - does it mean you have to repeat them over and over? Some people are slow learners.

- a child can carry your genes which in a way is immortality. In the lowest played down sense, in "Special Olympics" sort of way.

I have 2 friends who cultivated and then had kids. None of them are very happy as it take ALL your time.

Maybe the Taobum crowd is different.