The "Get a Job, Have a Wife, Make a Child , Get a Life" Thread

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

I have two dogs, and I am infinitely grateful that they are not children. I love them as much as I could love any being. My regret is that their lives are not long. I never had a desire for children. I feel sorry for the young, the world they inherit is broken beyond repair. Perhaps they will find love and meaning in the face of immense suffering.

[~jK~]

Hellow,

what are your thoughts on this?

Thank you so much

L1

'Ever heard of the Lawyer's guarantee of 250,000 US$ for any woman to divorce the father of their children ?

 

She gets the house, the car, child support - he pays.

 

At least he is supposed to pay - in reality - she gets it all for about 6 months and then he quits working as well as quits making the payments & all goes to the lawyer who was waiting - the family then goes into public housing - the children without a father then go to jail- as addicts - in search of a father... and become a statistic as to why USA has 5 times the number of prisoners, per capita, of any other nation on earth.

In the meantime - prison building has been the #1 investment opportunity - for the last 30 years.

 

I'll take self cultivation any day over the preditory government's path..

[Enishi]

'Ever heard of the Lawyer's guarantee of 250,000 US$ for any woman to divorce the father of their children ?

 

She gets the house, the car, child support - he pays.

 

At least he is supposed to pay - in reality - she gets it all for about 6 months and then he quits working as well as quits making the payments & all goes to the lawyer who was waiting - the family then goes into public housing - the children without a father then go to jail- as addicts - in search of a father... and become a statistic as to why USA has 5 times the number of prisoners, per capita, of any other nation on earth.

In the meantime - prison building has been the #1 investment opportunity - for the last 30 years.

 

I'll take self cultivation any day over the preditory government's path..

 

Indeed. This is why I'm VERY leery of getting married in the anglosphere, and will be planning to possibly leave one day.

Edited December 28, 2009 by Enishi

[Smile]

Yeah, someone tried to pass the law that would allow men to "opt out" in case a girl gets pregnant, so if she decides to go on with pregnancy but he is against it, he will not be legally required to support them in any way. The effort to make it into law was blocked... after all, a slave that is screwed financially trying to make child support payment is easier to control.

 

I've heard so many stories of man saying before having a kid: "hey, it's ok, it's going to be good training for me". A year later they are so broken down it's not even funny. Happened to my close friend 4 years ago... he is still recovering.

 

It's not just the time that is required to raise kids... it's the energetic connection that you and kids establish and you will have to support. It's not an exchange like in a man-woman relationship. This is mostly a "one way" connection where energy goes from you to them. Because of that, the "holes" will appear in the energy body after a while (Castaneda mentioned it I believe). Cultivation is very hard under these circumstances.... not impossible, but very hard.

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Yes, that sounds right to me. I'm sure this has been covered here before and I haven't searched it yet, but it seems like a vasectomy is a good thing if one thinks the child issue is a no-go...but what are the effects (if any) on energy and cultivation?

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]

 

I think polygamy is my only hope.

 

 

At least if you're not monogamous you can now blame it on your genes! Wahayyy, let the good times role!!!

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...ml?nav=hcmodule

[Eric23]

It's not just the time that is required to raise kids... it's the energetic connection that you and kids establish and you will have to support. It's not an exchange like in a man-woman relationship. This is mostly a "one way" connection where energy goes from you to them. Because of that, the "holes" will appear in the energy body after a while (Castaneda mentioned it I believe). Cultivation is very hard under these circumstances.... not impossible, but very hard.

 

I'm going through this, but from a different angle. My daughter came home with child, her husband was a complete idiot (divorce pending). For the past 6 years my wife and I have been very involved in raising our grand daughter. Yes, it has taken a lot of energy from us, but the rewards of having a beautiful grand daughter are wonderful. I've managed to stick with my yoga and some qi gong but my results probably would have been greater if I were a true empty nester. However I will gladly take the grand daughter and modest yoga results. Besides, did I really have a choice? You just don't turn away from your children when they need you.

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

I'm going through this, but from a different angle. My daughter came home with child, her husband was a complete idiot (divorce pending). For the past 6 years my wife and I have been very involved in raising our grand daughter. Yes, it has taken a lot of energy from us, but the rewards of having a beautiful grand daughter are wonderful. I've managed to stick with my yoga and some qi gong but my results probably would have been greater if I were a true empty nester. However I will gladly take the grand daughter and modest yoga results. Besides, did I really have a choice? You just don't turn away from your children when they need you.

 

 

Yes, but this is usually only true retrospectively. Consider this: would you now take on raising another grandchild, since you so highly valued and loved the one you have, or would you rather finish her upbringing and have the time and energy for cultivation or anything else you choose?

[宁]

 

It's not just the time that is required to raise kids... it's the energetic connection that you and kids establish and you will have to support. It's not an exchange like in a man-woman relationship. This is mostly a "one way" connection where energy goes from you to them. Because of that, the "holes" will appear in the energy body after a while (Castaneda mentioned it I believe). Cultivation is very hard under these circumstances.... not impossible, but very hard.

 

It's true, you need time to fill up the 'holes', about one or two years.

If that is your main concern (as it was mine, some time ago), I'm glad I can rid you of it: the CC clan didn't knew the technology, but it's possible to recover, and not at the expense of the children - the technology is daoist...

I had the 'oportunity' to try and fill up the 'hole' during a very stressful period, troubles with the job and family, and alot of health issues. If I could do it then, I think it's easier under usual circumstances.

 

Alas, this thread is not to convince the skeptical, but to help the ones that are inclined to do so, to take that decision, and do it with joy... It' ain't for wussies, that's for sure

 

edit: raising a kid is simmilar to teaching: you have to expand your boundaries, get out of your shell... make it bigger, so that it can envelop the others too... getting past your little concerns and growing up, for real. it is true that you need energy to fill it up, but then again, if you are not able to comply with this small task, your practice could be a bit sloppy... it has so many oportunities, that it's just so overwhelming... it's very very sad to grow old, without children. your body starts yelling at ya at about 30-35...

Edited December 28, 2009 by Little1

[Aetherous]

I've heard so many stories of man saying before having a kid: "hey, it's ok, it's going to be good training for me". A year later they are so broken down it's not even funny.

 

Then you know the training went well.

[Taomeow]

Yeah, someone tried to pass the law that would allow men to "opt out" in case a girl gets pregnant, so if she decides to go on with pregnancy but he is against it, he will not be legally required to support them in any way. The effort to make it into law was blocked... after all, a slave that is screwed financially trying to make child support payment is easier to control.

 

I've heard so many stories of man saying before having a kid: "hey, it's ok, it's going to be good training for me". A year later they are so broken down it's not even funny. Happened to my close friend 4 years ago... he is still recovering.

 

It's not just the time that is required to raise kids... it's the energetic connection that you and kids establish and you will have to support. It's not an exchange like in a man-woman relationship. This is mostly a "one way" connection where energy goes from you to them. Because of that, the "holes" will appear in the energy body after a while (Castaneda mentioned it I believe). Cultivation is very hard under these circumstances.... not impossible, but very hard.

I like much about Castaneda but he was full of shit on this one. (Perhaps because he disliked his -- granted, stupid and uninspiring -- wife and abandoned his own son and needed to create a defensive self-justification so as not to feel guilty.) The holes appear from NOT having kids or from not treating them right. The holes MEND from having, and treating right, a reasonable number of kids (too many are indeed depleting if you take real emotional, mental and physical care of all of them, and how many is "too many" -- for some people it's even one, others can do it for two or three... more is indeed depleting. The cut-off number of people one can truly love -- not in the new-agey sense of the word love, in the sense of die for without a second's hesitation -- is seven. It means that a human being was originally intended to love two parents, one spouse, two or three kids, and a friend or two or a grandparent or two or a teacher or two -- if there's more people in need of his/her love, or fewer, it produces holes in the energy body.)

 

Even physiologically it stands to reason that raising a family does not do as much damage as not raising one --

consider the following facts:

bachelors live an average of 10 to 15 (depending on the country surveyed) years shorter lives than married men (which makes being married the single most efficient longevity strategy for males, statistically far surpassing any cultivation practice in existence);

women who didn't have children get breast cancer at 10 times the rate of those who did;

women who had children and breastfed them for close to a year have the lowest risk of all reproductive cancers;

women who had very many sex partners (prostitutes) have 30 times the rate of cervical cancer;

women who had no sex partners (nuns) have 10 times the risk of breast cancer and 15 times the risk of ovarian cancer compared to married women;

 

and finally, the immortal female Sun Bu-er did find it difficult to cultivate while she was raising her children, so she cultivated an ordinary married woman's life -- being a great mother and a loving wife -- till she was 57, and that's when a celestial teacher sought her out and told her, "Now you're ready, for now your humanity is fully realized, so now you can come with me to the mountains and cultivate your immortality." She did just that -- to become one of the Eight Immortals, which makes her one of the most important and influential beings in the history of being. Now I can't help imagining what those celestial teachers think when someone is knocking on heaven's door who did plenty of arcane taoist cultivation but hadn't realized his or her humanity -- not just "fully" but even "slightly" -- by being fully human first. They are a merry bunch and they must be splitting their sides laughing every time they observe the dufus.

 

To produce other humans and see them through is fully human. Tao invented it. You think she'd be punishing whoever follows her in this manner by installing a glass ceiling?.. She's not dumb, not cruel, and not self-defeating... she's the Great Mother herself, matter of fact... with no holes in her energy body resulting from the fact.

 

Tao fa ziran -- tao patterns on herself

[JustARandomPanda]

 

Yeah, someone tried to pass the law that would allow men to "opt out" in case a girl gets pregnant, so if she decides to go on with pregnancy but he is against it, he will not be legally required to support them in any way. The effort to make it into law was blocked... after all, a slave that is screwed financially trying to make child support payment is easier to control.

 

I've heard so many stories of man saying before having a kid: "hey, it's ok, it's going to be good training for me". A year later they are so broken down it's not even funny. Happened to my close friend 4 years ago... he is still recovering.

 

It's not just the time that is required to raise kids... it's the energetic connection that you and kids establish and you will have to support. It's not an exchange like in a man-woman relationship. This is mostly a "one way" connection where energy goes from you to them. Because of that, the "holes" will appear in the energy body after a while (Castaneda mentioned it I believe). Cultivation is very hard under these circumstances.... not impossible, but very hard.

 

I like much about Castaneda but he was full of shit on this one. (Perhaps because he disliked his -- granted, stupid and uninspiring -- wife and abandoned his own son and needed to create a defensive self-justification so as not to feel guilty.) The holes appear from NOT having kids or from not treating them right. The holes MEND from having, and treating right, a reasonable number of kids (too many are indeed depleting if you take real emotional, mental and physical care of all of them, and how many is "too many" -- for some people it's even one, others can do it for two or three... more is indeed depleting. The cut-off number of people one can truly love -- not in the new-agey sense of the word love, in the sense of die for without a second's hesitation -- is seven. It means that a human being was originally intended to love two parents, one spouse, two or three kids, and a friend or two or a grandparent or two or a teacher or two -- if there's more people in need of his/her love, or fewer, it produces holes in the energy body.)

 

Even physiologically it stands to reason that raising a family does not do as much damage as not raising one --

consider the following facts:

bachelors live an average of 10 to 15 (depending on the country surveyed) years shorter lives than married men (which makes being married the single most efficient longevity strategy for males, statistically far surpassing any cultivation practice in existence);

women who didn't have children get breast cancer at 10 times the rate of those who did;

women who had children and breastfed them for close to a year have the lowest risk of all reproductive cancers;

women who had very many sex partners (prostitutes) have 30 times the rate of cervical cancer;

women who had no sex partners (nuns) have 10 times the risk of breast cancer and 15 times the risk of ovarian cancer compared to married women;

 

and finally, the immortal female Sun Bu-er did find it difficult to cultivate while she was raising her children, so she cultivated an ordinary married woman's life -- being a great mother and a loving wife -- till she was 57, and that's when a celestial teacher sought her out and told her, "Now you're ready, for now your humanity is fully realized, so now you can come with me to the mountains and cultivate your immortality." She did just that -- to become one of the Eight Immortals, which makes her one of the most important and influential beings in the history of being. Now I can't help imagining what those celestial teachers think when someone is knocking on heaven's door who did plenty of arcane taoist cultivation but hadn't realized his or her humanity -- not just "fully" but even "slightly" -- by being fully human first. They are a merry bunch and they must be splitting their sides laughing every time they observe the dufus.

 

To produce other humans and see them through is fully human. Tao invented it. You think she'd be punishing whoever follows her in this manner by installing a glass ceiling?.. She's not dumb, not cruel, and not self-defeating... she's the Great Mother herself, matter of fact... with no holes in her energy body resulting from the fact.

 

Tao fa ziran -- tao patterns on herself

 

 

The above post greatly disturbed me. Especially if it is based off of Objective Knowledge (instead of the normal subjective knowledge of a typical human) - that is, knowledge only available once the higher Heart-Wisdom center and Higher Intellect center have awakened to the Tao.

 

I do not understand why women who do not have children are shit on so bad by the Tao. Does being a fully matured humane woman only show it's fullest and highest manifestation by getting pregnant and having a child? If so I am screwed no matter what I attempt to attain. I came into this world KNOWING (not just believing but actually KNOWING) even by the age of 5 that I was not going to ever have children of my own. It came true. Now I see someone of exceedingly high spiritual attainment compared to myself in the prior post saying how women who do not have children are damaged - this is born out as proof even medically - much less "energetically" .

 

Well...so be it. It is what it is. I don't understand why the universe shits on women who do not have babies but whatever. Just because we don't like something doesn't mean it might not be true. So whatever. I still have an ego. I still have all 5 poisons as Buddhists talk about. I still have my "chief defective feature". My Essence (as Gurdjieff puts it) is very likely a stunted little nub. I still am asleep-at-the-wheel. I don't know what is right or wrong anymore. Sex fills me only with sadness and despair, not happiness. I doubt everything. And now apparently I find that remaining childless means I'm defective and not even a fully manifested loving woman nor will I ever know or be able to experience the highest heart-mind's love (the love that has no downside - unlike ordinary human loves that do) no matter how often I practice Secret Smile to awaken it.

 

I have to admit I'm pissed hearing this. I did not realize the Tao was so unjust with it's Love-Wisdom or Chi-Vibrations. Whatever. It is what it is. As above...so below.

[bbsoft0]

Everybody has some good points.

 

Just some quotes from my mind :

 

"Those who are like little children will receive the Revelation of Mysteries."

 

"Those who are married should be as those who are single"

 

"Everyone has a Gift. Love will give meaning to it and the Gift will make fruits."

 

 

Peace and Love to everybody !

[z00se]

I doubt everything. And now apparently I find that remaining childless means I'm defective and not even a fully manifested loving woman nor will I ever know or be able to experience the highest heart-mind's love (the love that has no downside - unlike ordinary human loves that do) no matter how often I practice Secret Smile to awaken it.

 

What i've realised in my countless hours of meditation is that anyone who spends massive amounts of time doing so called 'enlightening practices' like smiling etc to become enlightened is a very sorry soul indeed. What happens when you're 70, you're old, you can't do much and you're still not enlightened? I'm sure you have a 99% chance of that being the case. I call this a wasted life. Lucky i realised this much earlier

 

I don't believe enlightenment is something with only benefits and no bad sides. And it's not like a degree, once you have it you keep it. It takes constant work even if it appears effortless. No days off.

 

I only want to be enlightened so i can live my life how i want. I know full enlightenment would constrict me on how i live and i don't want that.

[longrhythm]

Hey blue I love this place as much as the next but make sure you're not letting a handle on an internet forum define spiritual attainment for you. The words on here are only as valuable as you say they are.

 

 

 

Yeah, someone tried to pass the law that would allow men to "opt out" in case a girl gets pregnant, so if she decides to go on with pregnancy but he is against it, he will not be legally required to support them in any way. The effort to make it into law was blocked... after all, a slave that is screwed financially trying to make child support payment is easier to control.

 

I've heard so many stories of man saying before having a kid: "hey, it's ok, it's going to be good training for me". A year later they are so broken down it's not even funny. Happened to my close friend 4 years ago... he is still recovering.

 

It's not just the time that is required to raise kids... it's the energetic connection that you and kids establish and you will have to support. It's not an exchange like in a man-woman relationship. This is mostly a "one way" connection where energy goes from you to them. Because of that, the "holes" will appear in the energy body after a while (Castaneda mentioned it I believe). Cultivation is very hard under these circumstances.... not impossible, but very hard.

 

I like much about Castaneda but he was full of shit on this one. (Perhaps because he disliked his -- granted, stupid and uninspiring -- wife and abandoned his own son and needed to create a defensive self-justification so as not to feel guilty.) The holes appear from NOT having kids or from not treating them right. The holes MEND from having, and treating right, a reasonable number of kids (too many are indeed depleting if you take real emotional, mental and physical care of all of them, and how many is "too many" -- for some people it's even one, others can do it for two or three... more is indeed depleting. The cut-off number of people one can truly love -- not in the new-agey sense of the word love, in the sense of die for without a second's hesitation -- is seven. It means that a human being was originally intended to love two parents, one spouse, two or three kids, and a friend or two or a grandparent or two or a teacher or two -- if there's more people in need of his/her love, or fewer, it produces holes in the energy body.)

 

Even physiologically it stands to reason that raising a family does not do as much damage as not raising one --

consider the following facts:

bachelors live an average of 10 to 15 (depending on the country surveyed) years shorter lives than married men (which makes being married the single most efficient longevity strategy for males, statistically far surpassing any cultivation practice in existence);

women who didn't have children get breast cancer at 10 times the rate of those who did;

women who had children and breastfed them for close to a year have the lowest risk of all reproductive cancers;

women who had very many sex partners (prostitutes) have 30 times the rate of cervical cancer;

women who had no sex partners (nuns) have 10 times the risk of breast cancer and 15 times the risk of ovarian cancer compared to married women;

 

and finally, the immortal female Sun Bu-er did find it difficult to cultivate while she was raising her children, so she cultivated an ordinary married woman's life -- being a great mother and a loving wife -- till she was 57, and that's when a celestial teacher sought her out and told her, "Now you're ready, for now your humanity is fully realized, so now you can come with me to the mountains and cultivate your immortality." She did just that -- to become one of the Eight Immortals, which makes her one of the most important and influential beings in the history of being. Now I can't help imagining what those celestial teachers think when someone is knocking on heaven's door who did plenty of arcane taoist cultivation but hadn't realized his or her humanity -- not just "fully" but even "slightly" -- by being fully human first. They are a merry bunch and they must be splitting their sides laughing every time they observe the dufus.

 

To produce other humans and see them through is fully human. Tao invented it. You think she'd be punishing whoever follows her in this manner by installing a glass ceiling?.. She's not dumb, not cruel, and not self-defeating... she's the Great Mother herself, matter of fact... with no holes in her energy body resulting from the fact.

 

Tao fa ziran -- tao patterns on herself

The above post greatly disturbed me. Especially if it is based off of Objective Knowledge (instead of the normal subjective knowledge of a typical human) - that is, knowledge only available once the higher Heart-Wisdom center and Higher Intellect center have awakened to the Tao.

 

I do not understand why women who do not have children are shit on so bad by the Tao. Does being a fully matured humane woman only show it's fullest and highest manifestation by getting pregnant and having a child? If so I am screwed no matter what I attempt to attain. I came into this world KNOWING (not just believing but actually KNOWING) even by the age of 5 that I was not going to ever have children of my own. It came true. Now I see someone of exceedingly high spiritual attainment compared to myself in the prior post saying how women who do not have children are damaged - this is born out as proof even medically - much less "energetically" .

 

Well...so be it. It is what it is. I don't understand why the universe shits on women who do not have babies but whatever. Just because we don't like something doesn't mean it might not be true. So whatever. I still have an ego. I still have all 5 poisons as Buddhists talk about. I still have my "chief defective feature". My Essence (as Gurdjieff puts it) is very likely a stunted little nub. I still am asleep-at-the-wheel. I don't know what is right or wrong anymore. Sex fills me only with sadness and despair, not happiness. I doubt everything. And now apparently I find that remaining childless means I'm defective and not even a fully manifested loving woman nor will I ever know or be able to experience the highest heart-mind's love (the love that has no downside - unlike ordinary human loves that do) no matter how often I practice Secret Smile to awaken it.

 

I have to admit I'm pissed hearing this. I did not realize the Tao was so unjust with it's Love-Wisdom or Chi-Vibrations. Whatever. It is what it is. As above...so below.

[Taomeow]

Serene Blue,

 

I was talking general not individual predicament. An individual woman can get sick and another one stay healthy regardless of their reproductive history or lack thereof. In fact, I know many women who are doing the noblest and most spiritually correct thing in the world by not having children. I mean, really, most sincerely, if it's a choice between having children who will never be deeply and effortlessly loved vs. having no children, I'm always for the no children choice, no ifs and buts.

 

So... individuals will vary, and varying doesn't equal being "defective." But as a species, tao meant us to reproduce and Chinese taoism reproduced that, by placing the highest value (higher than that of individual immortality) on the continuation of one's "name." I.e. genetic/jing pool of attainment of your whole lineage, not just you personally. This kind of values-placement is unusual today in the west, and few will take these considerations to heart. So you don't really have to, obviously. Nothing wrong with placing values on something else. But I was responding to the idea that something is wrong with actually having kids and loving them. To the bogus "holes in the energy field" that it is supposed to create. I asserted it doesn't and it can't; to this I might add that mistreating a child will, and not having children might be a separate and different challenge from having them and not fucking it up. We all have our challenges.

 

By the way, having two kids at 21 was something tao did to me without asking whether it was what I wanted -- then taught me to want it once it was there. Tao didn't make avoidance of pregnancy easy on our species because she probably wants our species to stick around, what d'you reckon?.. It's not something personal, she's looking at a larger picture...

Edited December 29, 2009 by Taomeow

[Smile]

I like much about Castaneda but he was full of shit on this one. (Perhaps because he disliked his -- granted, stupid and uninspiring -- wife and abandoned his own son and needed to create a defensive self-justification so as not to feel guilty.) The holes appear from NOT having kids or from not treating them right. The holes MEND from having, and treating right, a reasonable number of kids (too many are indeed depleting if you take real emotional, mental and physical care of all of them, and how many is "too many" -- for some people it's even one, others can do it for two or three... more is indeed depleting. The cut-off number of people one can truly love -- not in the new-agey sense of the word love, in the sense of die for without a second's hesitation -- is seven. It means that a human being was originally intended to love two parents, one spouse, two or three kids, and a friend or two or a grandparent or two or a teacher or two -- if there's more people in need of his/her love, or fewer, it produces holes in the energy body.)

 

The holes are from having kids. The energetic cords are there, and I made a post about it on your forum. If you observe the energy body over time, from the time of about 6 month pregnancy till birth and so on, you will see that over time the stomach area energy will become very thin, and if you go into deep meditation and "look", you will see the energy "cords" connecting you and the baby. It's neither good or bad, it just is. The transfer of energy from both parents happens from all the energy centers, not just navel area but this is the area most affected. Btw, this is the observation on people who don't practice anything. Those who do may not experience anything or could compensate the energy transfer in different ways so the effect is minimal.

 

Even physiologically it stands to reason that raising a family does not do as much damage as not raising one --

consider the following facts:

bachelors live an average of 10 to 15 (depending on the country surveyed) years shorter lives than married men (which makes being married the single most efficient longevity strategy for males, statistically far surpassing any cultivation practice in existence);

women who didn't have children get breast cancer at 10 times the rate of those who did;

women who had children and breastfed them for close to a year have the lowest risk of all reproductive cancers;

women who had very many sex partners (prostitutes) have 30 times the rate of cervical cancer;

women who had no sex partners (nuns) have 10 times the risk of breast cancer and 15 times the risk of ovarian cancer compared to married women;

What about people who cultivate? I'm not sure your statistic examples are applicable for people like us.

 

and finally, the immortal female Sun Bu-er did find it difficult to cultivate while she was raising her children, so she cultivated an ordinary married woman's life -- being a great mother and a loving wife -- till she was 57, and that's when a celestial teacher sought her out and told her, "Now you're ready, for now your humanity is fully realized, so now you can come with me to the mountains and cultivate your immortality." She did just that -- to become one of the Eight Immortals, which makes her one of the most important and influential beings in the history of being. Now I can't help imagining what those celestial teachers think when someone is knocking on heaven's door who did plenty of arcane taoist cultivation but hadn't realized his or her humanity -- not just "fully" but even "slightly" -- by being fully human first. They are a merry bunch and they must be splitting their sides laughing every time they observe the dufus.

Good example of Sun Bu-er but as you know it's all depends on the individual, fortune, destiny, etc. etc. Does it prove that ALL or even 1% of women who raise their kids will have a chance at this outcome? Please...

 

To produce other humans and see them through is fully human. Tao invented it. You think she'd be punishing whoever follows her in this manner by installing a glass ceiling?.. She's not dumb, not cruel, and not self-defeating... she's the Great Mother herself, matter of fact... with no holes in her energy body resulting from the fact.

What is it to be fully human? I would think birthing a child is one of many examples. Does it mean those women who don't bare children are not fully human because they are childless? Of course not, it would be silly to say otherwise. It's also another good topic on what it means to be human.

 

Tao invented birth, it is also the reason of millions of other things including death. Just because of the metaphorical example of Tao with "no holes in her energy body resulting from" being the source of all creation doesn't mean people don't have cancer, heart attacks, possessions, Dick Cheney, etc etc.

 

Tao fa ziran -- tao patterns on herself - a beautiful quote... but it has no discrimination. Anything is a game.

 

To answer why there is an energy hole after making a baby would fall under the same section of why there is sexual desire, "the fall of Adam and Eve from Eden", mortality, suffering etc. It's all very deeply connected... somehow I think it was by design of the "creator" over time to bring us from full human beings to animal-like existence and then raise ourselves back again. Another topic.

 

 

I have to admit I'm pissed hearing this. I did not realize the Tao was so unjust with it's Love-Wisdom or Chi-Vibrations. Whatever. It is what it is. As above...so below.

No worries, you are doing great. It all depends on a person. One person raises a family and has a job and becomes enlightened and another person sits all his life on a cushion in a temple and develops back problems and hemorrhoids. Isn't life wonderful?

[gendao]

Even physiologically it stands to reason that raising a family does not do as much damage as not raising one --

consider the following facts:

bachelors live an average of 10 to 15 (depending on the country surveyed) years shorter lives than married men (which makes being married the single most efficient longevity strategy for males, statistically far surpassing any cultivation practice in existence);

I think these purported findings need more detailed investigation.

 

1) Does marriage itself increase health, or do women just marry healthier men to begin with (correlation =/= causation)?

2) What specifically about marriage might increase health? Healthier diet, support mechanism, regular sex?

3) If regular sex might improve health, then might increasing sex alone (whether within marriage or not) improve health? This study appears to say so:

Want to live a little longer? Get a second wife. New research suggests that men from polygamous cultures outlive those from monogamous ones.

 

After accounting for socioeconomic differences, men aged over 60 from 140 countries that practice polygamy to varying degrees lived on average 12% longer than men from 49 mostly monogamous nations, says Virpi Lummaa, an ecologist at the University of Sheffield, UK.

4) While sexual retention alone may not be healthy, might celibacy WITH cultivation be VERY healthy (even moreso than regular sex)? A survey of mainstream people is simply not going to capture rare individuals like this.

[宁]

I like much about Castaneda but he was full of shit on this one.

 

Tao fa ziran -- tao patterns on herself

 

 

At 21 it's easy not to notice it. We are still in the grace of the Mother Nature then.

A bit later, it's pretty obvious that an energy-spirit draining does occur...

Around 29-30. Later on, even more obvious.

And btw, Castaneda wasn't talking about energy first, but about spirit.

 

I reiterate: it can be reversed, daoists have the know-how.

It's not something that affects women alone due to pregnancy, but it affects men also. Women feed the kids physically, men energetically.

 

If you're backed up by a strong practice, it shouldn't be a problem.

[Lucky7Strikes]

You can only truly love 7 people?

 

What? Lame.

 

Edited December 29, 2009 by Lucky7Strikes

[Taomeow]

You can only truly love 7 people?

 

What? Lame.

 

Neurocognitive studies I have no vested interest in peddling.

 

Oh, and by the way, according to the same studies, a human being can't personally know in any depth more than 120 people during his or her lifetime. Which was well known to all tribal peoples who would start splitting the village in two as soon as it grew to 130-140, or else sending the newly married couples to live wherever the village was smaller, or else there would be growth and with it, frequent personal misery for some and eventually, for most (which didn't take root in the under-120 native settlements even if there were personal mishaps.) A leader can only be efficient if he or she knows all the people he or she manages personally, otherwise there will be gross mismanagement. The larger the group being managed, the grosser. That's one reason our leadership is so truly lame, and globalists keep making it not just worse but psychophysiologically one hundred percent incompatible with the human nature.

 

To truly know 120 and to truly love 7 people is more than enough. Most can't really pull it off even with ONE person -- including those who like to talk about universal love. Universal love is a watered-down artificial sweetener for the bitterly disappointed -- unless its base of operation is people with practical experience of successful application of personal love to at least 7 live immediate people rather than billions of abstract ideas.

[Taomeow]

The holes are from having kids. The energetic cords are there, and I made a post about it on your forum. If you observe the energy body over time, from the time of about 6 month pregnancy till birth and so on, you will see that over time the stomach area energy will become very thin, and if you go into deep meditation and "look", you will see the energy "cords" connecting you and the baby. It's neither good or bad, it just is. The transfer of energy from both parents happens from all the energy centers, not just navel area but this is the area most affected. Btw, this is the observation on people who don't practice anything. Those who do may not experience anything or could compensate the energy transfer in different ways so the effect is minimal.

 

This is simply not true as a generalization, but it can be the case when the wuxing phase of the child's qi is the one that's depleting to the parent's proprietary phase while the latter is not strong enough (the strength of one's proprietary qi and all of its interactions with all other qi in the universe and in other people alike can be precisely calculated, not imagined, incidentally... three cheers for authentic taoist sciences! ) This kind of hole-making imbalance is created when the timing of conception is wrong. There's other types of personal situations where the children will make a hole in the energy field (or rather, wuxing cycle of qi) of an individual, but it's far from being brought about "always" by having kids or "only" by having kids -- having any close relationship of this phase-puncturing nature will do it nicely. Whereas kids who happen to be of the phase of qi that's missing from your own chart will mend your hole rather than make it there. Capish?

 

To give a personal example of when the kids will indeed make a dent (that's personal, I'm the poor dented one, not universal, for which it absolutely doesn't apply as a "general rule"). My own kids are of the Fire phase which is what Wood (my phase) is supposed to generate, and that's what my chart says I'm supposed to have -- Fire in the Children's Palace -- so my own timing was perfectly correct and it would have been a problem-free scenario if my parents' timing was as correct too. Alas, it wasn't. They are of the Fire phase too, and they should have timed their offspring to be Earth, which is what's supposed to be born of Fire. Instead, like most modern un-attuned parents, they didn't have any sense of timing of these cycles (nor of course any information) and voila, produced Wood. Not only does Wood need Water for parents which mine aren't, but due to the off-kilter overall scenario I wind up with a missing phase altogether -- and that's Water, the parent phase that is worse to have missing than any other.

 

Which means I have a hole in my energy field the moment I'm born, and having or not having kids is immaterial at that point -- it's already there. Many, many charts I've seen miss a phase, or have too little of one and too much of another -- which also creates holes in many cases -- and in fact I don't think I've seen charts that had no holes at all, it's a matter of how big the holes are and how mendable and whether the person will ever know and do enough to mend them.

 

Now then. If my kids were Water that would repair my energy hole -- not make it but mend it, mind you! --

 

but it would also reverse the roles and I would expect (on the level of my qi, which is deeper than any psychological attitudes) being supported by them (Water nourishes Wood) instead of being their mother. (A very frequent scenario, this one! -- where parents are trying, mostly unconsciously, to get from their children what they need instead of giving the children what the children need.) So my lineage destiny (not my personal one) decided to self-correct at my expense rather than at the expense of the next generation, thereby giving my children a chance to be born without a hole in the Mother phase of qi. So now I have Fire on both ends, parents and children -- which is why mine is a precarious life and if I didn't know anything about anything my Wood would go up in smoke in no time, not just a hole but a hole in the ground where that tree used to be. But then, the more I learn about my lineage destiny, the more I realize that zhi that drives it seems to know what it's doing... I wouldn't be a cultivator at all if I didn't have kids, for starters, I would be... well, too late to speculate what I would be, but something completely different -- and in all likelihood far less sturdy, both energetically and physically. (I wanted to be someone who shoots something, preferably something two-legged she doesn't like, for a living... before my kids were born... )

[Eric23]

This kind of hole-making imbalance is created when the timing of conception is wrong.

 

Well that explains a lot!! I came home one afternoon, Mrs E23 was waiting for me naked (we were very young) and we didn't get past the living room couch

 

 

To answer a previous post in this thread; Yes I would have much rather had been a "traditional" empty nester grandfather. I would have had much more freedom to pursue a number of hobbies and cultivation. But as alluded to in my response to Taomeow, my path was set many, many years ago.

[topflight]

2) What specifically about marriage might increase health? Healthier diet, support mechanism, regular sex?

 

 

I became much more risk averse after I was married and especially after I had kids. I used to regularly drive over 100 mph in a sports car designed drive that fast (and faster). I mostly stopped driving it after my first child was born and now I'm selling it. If I were single I'd still be more of a risk taker.

Edited December 29, 2009 by topflight

[soundhunter]

I became much more risk averse after I was married and especially after I had kids. I used to regularly drive over 100 mph in a sports car designed drive that fast (and faster). I mostly stopped driving it after my first child was born and now I'm selling it. If I were single I'd still be more of a risk taker.

 

That's a good point.

 

Another is that human beings benefit from touch and affection, even sleeping beside someone is likely to have health benefits, unless they snore atrociously and cause sleep deprivation in their partner.