help with fire and maybe water methods

[talkinghead]

Hello.. I'm new to this forum. I've done a variety of energy work but am not too familiar with fire and water methods. I assume fire brings the energy up mostly and involves less grounding.

 

I've been made aware of the risks of the fire methods but think they suit my often un-energetic disposition. I've already ordered "Pillars of Bliss" but would be grateful for some more background or my detailed info about fire and or water methods.

 

Thanks!

[rex]

These links give some background:

Michael Winn on Fire & Water methods.

Summary of Water Method.

[mantis]

the way i see it if you're an impulse driven hot head fire paths are best for you

if you're laid back and kind of woman-like go with the water path

[Taomeow]

the way i see it if you're an impulse driven hot head fire paths are best for you

if you're laid back and kind of woman-like go with the water path

or vice versa -- depending on the too much/not enough overall accounting of your energies.

 

I am in favor of going with the Wuxing analysis and determining which phases are auspicious for a given individual and which ones are not. Feeling attraction to a certain phase is not only no guarantee it's good for you, it might be the opposite -- as in my case, e.g.: I am attracted to Fire and attract Fire easily -- and it's because my predominant phase is Wood. Now if Fire was my deficiency, and Wood or Water my excess, no harm done, it's all good, right? but I don't have a Wood excess -- I have a Fire excess and a Water deficiency. So being attracted to Fire (which is natural and inevitable for Wood) doesn't mean it's good for me -- in fact, it's absolutely detrimental, it would "burn up my Wood" too fast if encouraged in any way. Instead, I absolutely need Water practices and other Water choices (foods, colors, occupations, residences, people... and of course overall lifestyle). So before deciding which one to go with, I would definitely encourage an individual to obtain a qualified analysis of his or her Wuxing status, and take it from there. Likes and dislikes can be quite deceptive -- it is a well-known fact that people get cravings to foods they are allergic to, get addicted to chemical substances that make them feel good "now" only to be their undoing "a bit later," and so on. In fact, if you're too easily pulled into a particular type of practice, it might mean you are encouraging the phase that is already in excess, which is easy precisely because it's in excess. It's deficiencies that are difficult to get going about remedying and replenishing...

Edited June 19, 2008 by Taomeow

[Andrei]

or vice versa -- depending on the too much/not enough overall accounting of your energies.

 

I am in favor of going with the Wuxing analysis and determining which phases are auspicious for a given individual and which ones are not. Feeling attraction to a certain phase is not only no guarantee it's good for you, it might be the opposite -- as in my case, e.g.: I am attracted to Fire and attract Fire easily -- and it's because my predominant phase is Wood. Now if Fire was my deficiency, and Wood or Water my excess, no harm done, it's all good, right? but I don't have a Wood excess -- I have a Fire excess and a Water deficiency. So being attracted to Fire (which is natural and inevitable for Wood) doesn't mean it's good for me -- in fact, it's absolutely detrimental, it would "burn up my Wood" too fast if encouraged in any way. Instead, I absolutely need Water practices and other Water choices (foods, colors, occupations, residences, people... and of course overall lifestyle). So before deciding which one to go with, I would definitely encourage an individual to obtain a qualified analysis of his or her Wuxing status, and take it from there. Likes and dislikes can be quite deceptive -- it is a well-known fact that people get cravings to foods they are allergic to, get addicted to chemical substances that make them feel good "now" only to be their undoing "a bit later," and so on. In fact, if you're too easily pulled into a particular type of practice, it might mean you are encouraging the phase that is already in excess, which is easy precisely because it's in excess. It's deficiencies that are difficult to get going about remedying and replenishing...

 

 

very good explanation, totally agree with. Wuxing status can be checked here, just be advised in the equation enters not only astral influences but also genetics:

 

http://www.healingdao.com/ziping_reading.html

 

my predominant element also is Wood and second Water but my deficiency is Fire, Earth and Metal so for me is better a predominant Fire method to burn the excess and generate the deficient elements.

Edited June 19, 2008 by steam

[talkinghead]

Thanks; thats really helpful.

 

What would be an example of a fire method besides kunlun or tantric sex?

[Taomeow]

Thanks; thats really helpful.

 

What would be an example of a fire method besides kunlun or tantric sex?

 

Most methods out there are Fire methods. If they are about "ascending" -- wherever you or your subtle manifestations and/or energies are invited to ascend -- be it from the base of the spine to the crown chakra, from earth to heaven, from the body to the out-of-body, from material to non-material, from life-centered to spirit-centered, from Mother Nature to Father in Heaven, 'spirit in the sky,' 'light,' 'enlightement,' etc., they are all Fire methods. They predominate because of the nature of current civilization, a Fire-Metal phase affair largely inherited from the Babylonian sun worship practices. (Which, in their turn, seem to originate with someone or something cold-blooded for whom sun worship is a biological necessity.) In any event, all Indo-European religions are in this category, and nearly all their associated practices. All upward-pointing hierarchical developments, all pyramid arrangements with some summit aimed for up there at the top -- thousands of names, same essence.

[Junbao]

Thanks Taomeow for the insights and steam for the link.

I did the chart there, and as I thought, I am predominately fire (yin fire) and often times feel excess heat, and also, even though I have a VERY strong digestion, my stomach bothers me often (perhaps too much heat, to strong digestive fire?).

Lately when I am outside during these warm days, my ears will flare up hot and red. Just my ears.

 

My thinking would lead me to believe I need a good water practice, or something along those lines.

Steam recommended doing standing at the cooler times of day. That may help after a while?

 

Physically I am very fire, but my personality is opposite. I am quiet and mellow and don't like to rock the boat.

[Taomeow]

Physically I am very fire, but my personality is opposite. I am quiet and mellow and don't like to rock the boat.

Yin fire? Like smoldering coals?

 

Fire personalities are as diverse and variegated as the rest of them. A pious spiritual type, e.g., is a fire type, not just a hot-headed warrior. A good computer programmer, a theoretical scientist, a poet -- ditto. A warm, centered Fire personality might produce an excellent cook (who will truly shine with her spicy dishes and cook superb Indian). A well-balanced Fire is not aggressive, but he or she is still Fire in many, many manifestations, which are really fun to discern. My favorite thing to do is to look at "who's talking" and "who's walking" in terms of Wuxing. With practice, it becomes absolutely obvious.

[Junbao]

Taomeow, I'm not sure about the yin fire, what that would really mean.

I did the reading at the link steam provided, and it says that my Day Master is Yin Fire. My birth year is Rat.

I am usually happy and optimistic, but when I get the stomach thing going and the heat, it makes things uncomfortable.

I do like to cook! I work all day, and it's something I enjoy doing when I get home. My wife likes it too!

 

Any recommendations if I want to look into balancing things better? Or any water practices you might recommend?

[sheng zhen]

Taomeow, do you have any recmmendation for books to read up on these things?

[seadog]

Taomeow, do you have any recmmendation for books to read up on these things?

 

Lonny Jarrets "nourishing destiny" Goes into great detail in regards to the five phases, in particular regard to the inner tradition of Chinese Medicine

 

Hopefully Tao Meow will have some more references

[Andrei]

The most complete book I have encountered is Nicole Tremblay's Tao de l'alimentation. She is acupuncturist, PhD in psychology and Mantak Chia's student. She made an equivalence between the 8 personality types from western psychology and the 6 types from traditional chinese medicine:

 

choleric - shao yang (bladder/yang wood - triple heater/yang fire)

nervous - jue yin (liver/yin wood - pericard/yin fire)

sentimental - shao yin (kidney/yin water - heart/yin fire)

passionate - tai yang (urinary bladder/yang water - small intestine/yang fire)

apathic - tai yin predominantly metal (lung/yin metal - spleen-pancreas/yin earth)

amorph - tai yin predominantly earth (lung/yin metal - spleen-pancreas/yin earth)

phlegmatic - yang ming predominantly metal (large intestin/yang metal - stomach/yang earth)

sanguine - yang ming predominantly earth (large intestin/yang metal - stomach/yang earth)

 

Yin fire means a smaller fire, yang fire means a greater fire. The more you express the energy outside, the little you have the energy stored into the organs, so I would say that we express the organs that are depleted of energy.

 

Also, I would say that Fire methods are heart centered like prayer, love, compassion, lotus position meditation, suffering, fasting and so on while Water methods are kidney/liver centered like grounding meditation, taiji, qigong, healthy diet, relaxation, well being in general.

 

Actually all the methods are a mixture of Fire and Water and is just a matter of adjustment on your individuality to balance the energies.

[bronzebow]

I like to practice one method that comes easily/naturally in the morning and one that I don't like so much in the evening. I often find that the more effortless, "path of least resistance" type mind that I connect to in my more natural practices help me to find the same "consciousness" in the more challenging practices. The type of focus that I develop in the challenging practices brings my more natural practices to a new level of refinement, it keeps me from resting on my laurels and getting complacent. Together this seems to be helping me to find what seems to be a unity between all of the practices that I do, the easy paths open up and reveal deeper challenges, the challenging paths open up and reveal an effortlessness within themselves. What I'm getting from these experiences is that these "paths" of consciousness have always been and are always inside me regardless of whether I've thought I'd been practicing a way that comes easily or not.

 

When I first started practicing the "fire" methods of directly energy I found them quite challenging. Styles such as Vipassana or dissolving methods which many call "water" methods came much more naturally to me. After a while though I realized that the "line" between these two methods at least for me was very fine. For instance, by letting go of the resistances in myself that would "block" the microcosmic orbit I'd find that it would just circulate naturally, there was no need for me to "direct" it. It was already happening, I just needed to allow it to happen.

 

Later when I started with some of Robert Bruce's methods of energy raising I found the same principles would work. I'd let go of the resistances, open up/dissolve etc, let go of any beliefs that the energy "isn't already there" and energy would begin circulating into my dan tien. For me it is a lot more effective, a lot more effortless and a lot less rigid than trying to "push" energy in there.

 

The way I see it I have been using a balance of "fire" and "water". The "water" is the surrendering of what is surrounding or possible "resisting" my intention. I could also call it attachments. The fire is my "intention" or "projection." If I over balance my "fire" then I can actually hold myself back through my own attachment, if I surrender too much then I can have no intention at all. So cultivating a balance of "intention"(fire) and allowing(water) that intention to become something is what I find very valuable.

[exorcist_1699]

Knowing what are genuine "water " and genuine " fire" is crucial for taoist practice; It is said that with the intercourse of genuine "water " and " fire" in our body , we can live and look young forever .

 

These concepts are , in their "metaphysical" sense, being used at level higher than those in TCM ; you should not mix them up .

 

Please notice that in western philosophy, "metaphysical " is something linked to reasoning ; in taoist arena, it is absolutely something "operational" . Only after you have reached that level in practice , do the meaning of certain jargons open to you ;

Edited June 24, 2008 by exorcist_1699

[三江源]

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Edited April 20, 2015 by 三江源