Kunlun Lineage

[Jonah]

Hello All,

 

As with many on this forum I have been enjoying the Kunlun Bliss practice for the past few months. It's a very cool practice. I haven't been to any of Max's seminars but am learning from the book.

 

The main question I had was: does anyone know what lineage this Kunlun practice is from?

 

On the board Chris mentioned that Max learned this practice from Jenny Lamb. She looks to be an impressive teacher. Does anyone know who she learned it from and what were their traditions or background? Is there a specific school in China/Tibet that this form is from?

 

Any input on this form's origins would be most appreciated.

 

Thanks,

 

Jonah

[Cameron]

[Wun Yuen Gong]

I think max is mixing alot of different practices and adding to Jenny Lam's Kulun, i wonder if she teachers it out to others as well other Kunlun informations?

 

WYG

[Guest winpro07]

Please stop making assumptions. You are missing far to much information from this story to be make suggestions about it.

Edited June 19, 2008 by winpro07

[Cameron]

[SiliconValley]

Can this discussion be continued on the new Kunlun forum?

[Taomeow]

Well, here's someone with no assumptions, zilch. I know nothing about Kunlun except what the I Ching told me (and she told me not to tell anyway) --

 

but as a general approach, no matter what practice I would undertake, I would want to know the lineage, first thing I would want to know. If it has no discernible lineage, if it's a mix-and-match practice (which is what the majority of practices out there are today), I call it a new age practice. It's not a slur name, by the way, unlike what it has been made into by the feds who infiltrated the freedom movement way back in the flower-power days in order to derail it and make it into something ridiculous and unworthy of any respect (or so I'm told by people who were part of it... I wasn't, so I have no first hand knowledge, but I find it highly believable coming from highly trustworthy individuals) --

 

--where was I? --

 

oh yeah, so, unlike the ridiculous version eventually sold to the public and bought both by its paid enemies, unpaid adversaries, and ignorant enthusiasts alike --

 

unlike this, the original new age, as explained to me once by one of its founding mothers, Marilyn Ferguson (there you have a lineage! ) in her funky, unreal, huge new-agey home complete with an ancient Native American bruja living in the trailer in the back yard, a tiny, shiver-down-your-spine, dark, piercingly present anachronism of a lady who spoke no English, communicated with no one, and was always up to something no one could understand; and, back to the description of the house, complete with a life-sized Buddha statue seated in front of the grand piano, hands on keys, and a three-story-high fireplace and so on --

 

as she explained to me, many moons ago, new age at its inception simply meant "find what you can of the traditions destroyed by our dear forefathers, try to revive it to the best of your ability, with a close eye on the modern developments and the future" --

 

so in this sense, all a "new age practice" means is, "a practice with no discernible traditional lineage." Is all. So in this sense, may I ask the knowledgeable folks:

is Kunlun a lineage practice or a New Age one?

[Wun Yuen Gong]

Gullible, you poor demented child!!!

[Sahaj Nath]

 

 

as she explained to me, many moons ago, new age at its inception simply meant "find what you can of the traditions destroyed by our dear forefathers, try to revive it to the best of your ability, with a close eye on the modern developments and the future" --

 

so in this sense, all a "new age practice" means is, "a practice with no discernible traditional lineage." Is all.

 

i think that this is STILL the common definition. the pejorative cast on the label is a result of what has resulted from this well-intentioned idea.

 

the meaning breaks down at the "best of your ability, with a close eye..." phrases. there is no standard, no bright line to separate rigorous study from ego indulgence and fabrication. that nice sentiment led to the majority of new age traditions being born of innocent lack of knowledge, coupled with not-so-innocent self-interest and laziness.

 

 

its pejorative cast is justified, IMO. a new word with a better and more developed definition is now needed.

 

 

a lot of traditions are not as destroyed and lost as we once thought they were.

 

to break with much of the dogmatism and short-sightedness of the past can be a good thing. but HOW that's done makes a world of difference.

[Taomeow]

i think that this is STILL the common definition. the pejorative cast on the label is a result of what has resulted from this well-intentioned idea.

 

the meaning breaks down at the "best of your ability, with a close eye..." phrases. there is no standard, no bright line to separate rigorous study from ego indulgence and fabrication. that nice sentiment led to the majority of new age traditions being born of innocent lack of knowledge, coupled with not-so-innocent self-interest and laziness.

its pejorative cast is justified, IMO. a new word with a better and more developed definition is now needed.

a lot of traditions are not as destroyed and lost as we once thought they were.

 

to break with much of the dogmatism and short-sightedness of the past can be a good thing. but HOW that's done makes a world of difference.

Oh, I'm in total agreement here. The only thing that bothers me is the ratio of well-intentioned ignorance, honest mistakes, vs. the amount of intentional, and secret, poisoning of the well. Something can always be done with the former -- after all, every one of us here didn't know what a "lineage" is at some point in the past, and its value became clear (and not to everybody at that, obviously) when just one little pocket of ignorance was gradually filled by knowledge -- for some at least -- so a hopelessly confused "newager" may still see the light provided he or she is an honest seeker. However, the second scenario, the intentional poisoning of the well, I find infinitely more bothersome. Call me paranoid but I sometimes think even garden-variety non-mainstream-interest forums like this one are being monitored by a couple of paid disruptors (designed after the spirit and agenda of folks like Steve Barrett of Quackwatch who is a paid employee of a pharmaceutical advertizing agency in NYC, behind the facade of "just sharing his very own skeptical opinions"). Too often I've seen a discussion that could get somewhere meaningful and help one or two or more well-intentioned but ignorant folks to start taking steps in the direction of a bit less ignorance meticulously derailed by this or that ad hominem attack and degenerating into the usual squabble, making damn sure that any and all ideas that might have been shared and explored further are rendered stillborn from inception. Just way too many times to be utterly convinced it's just individuals doing this out of their "honest skeptical beliefs," with no ulterior motives... I hope I'm wrong, I hope intolerance of certain mindsets is just an idiosyncratic quirk for some, not their job description.

 

Besides, I am genuinely interested in finding out whether Kunlun is a lineage practice, because, well, because if it is, I would maybe check it out, and if it isn't, I wouldn't, is all. So I wanted this question answered but I didn't want to offend anyone who believes lineage is not that important. It is all-important for me, but not everybody is me, and I can live with that.

[Mantra68]

Besides, I am genuinely interested in finding out whether Kunlun is a lineage practice, because, well, because if it is, I would maybe check it out, and if it isn't, I wouldn't, is all. So I wanted this question answered but I didn't want to offend anyone who believes lineage is not that important. It is all-important for me, but not everybody is me, and I can live with that.

Yes, Kunlun is a linage practice. It is a "root" practice which means it pre-dates many things including Taoism. When Max transfers to you, you become connected with the 7402 masters who came before you. These masters (they don't actually use that word themselves) will come to work with you. There are many on this forum who have had experiences with these teachers while practicing. Some look human others, not so much.

 

On the Mao Shan side of things, if you know Mao Shan, and I know you do, you should know of the name Lum. Max was the primary student of Andrew Lum of Hawaii. His brother is Ming Lum. Andrew Lum's teacher was Lum Dai Yeung. He was the Grand Master of Mao Shan.

 

Max is as skilled as his teachers.

 

You are getting the real thing with him. I hope you have the chance to meet him because I know you two would get along great.

[Wun Yuen Gong]

Mantra,

 

All arts have root it all comes from the same source Kunlun also there is no difference! Your level 1 lifts heel many arts lift heel as well or concerntrates on the balls of the feet and or clamping the toes to activate the energy.

 

I have a few questions why do you think the heels raised in level 1 make you shake?

 

what does it do and how and why does it work?

 

So the only way to practice Kunlun is through Max's transmission?

 

You can still shake without the transmission or any transmission!

 

Sorry to come across blunt dude!

 

WYG

[Jonah]

Chris,

 

Good to hear from you. I'm still a bit confused, it would be extremely helpful if you could shed some more light on the issue.

 

I'm glad to hear that Kunlun is indeed a lineage practice. With a lineage, there is the ability to create a family tree of teacher's names going back to the source. In all of my practices I know who taught my teacher, and who taught that teacher and so on.

 

In regards to the 7402 masters who came before us, what master in this lifetime was the individual who taught Max this practice? In an earlier post you mentioned it was Jenny Lamb. Is this correct?

 

If it was Jenny Lamb who taught Max this practice, what is her background, and who was her teacher?

 

Andrew Lum sounds like a very impressive teacher in his own right, but was he in any way involved in teaching Max Kunlun? If he is, please let us know, that would be interesting. But if not, it would be best to keep him out of the equation for now, we are looking to focus specifically on the lineage holders of the Kunlun practice.

 

If you could answer these questions I would really appreciate it, and it would help me feel more connected to the practice.

 

Thanks Chris!

 

Jonah

 

 

 

Yes, Kunlun is a linage practice. It is a "root" practice which means it pre-dates many things including Taoism. When Max transfers to you, you become connected with the 7402 masters who came before you. These masters (they don't actually use that word themselves) will come to work with you. There are many on this forum who have had experiences with these teachers while practicing. Some look human others, not so much.

 

On the Mao Shan side of things, if you know Mao Shan, and I know you do, you should know of the name Lum. Max was the primary student of Andrew Lum of Hawaii. His brother is Ming Lum. Andrew Lum's teacher was Lum Dai Yeung. He was the Grand Master of Mao Shan.

 

Max is as skilled as his teachers.

 

You are getting the real thing with him. I hope you have the chance to meet him because I know you two would get along great.

Edited June 20, 2008 by Jonah

[Wun Yuen Gong]

There is no Kunlun energy is all made up from Max, the story is also made up from Max like most of his practices he has combinned many and is still creating more!!

 

He is a FRAUD, do your homework i said this when i 1st came here and ill stick to my guns!

 

WYG

[sean]

There is no Kunlun energy is all made up from Max, the story is also made up from Max like most of his practices he has combinned many and is still creating more!!

 

He is a FRAUD, do your homework i said this when i 1st came here and ill stick to my guns!

 

WYG

*shaking head*

 

Dude, you just don't learn.

 

90 days, next time you're banned.

 

Sean

[Sahaj Nath]

*shaking head*

 

Dude, you just don't learn.

 

90 days, next time you're banned.

 

Sean

 

really??? FOR THAT???

 

wow, that's pretty foul.

 

he didn't name call like he has in the past. he didn't swear or say anything vulgar like he has in the past, either.

 

and personally, I HAPPEN TO THINK HE'S PROBABLY RIGHT! AND I *HAVE* GONE TO A WORKSHOP! the practices have taken some people places they had never been before, and i respect Max's work for that. but NONE of the bogus claims are substantiated by this!

 

qi basically means energy, but somehow the kunlun energy isn't qi? COMPLETELY BOGUS! it's a marketing tactic to create a false uniqueness, and it LEGITIMATELY CALLS INTO QUESTION THE CREDIBILITY OF EVERYTHING that has to be taken on faith.

 

 

i guess you can can suspend me too if you like, but i think you made a bad call on this one. he may be a pain in the ass sometimes, but he should be able to say what he said.

[Cameron]

Sort of weird since I think he had been improving overall lately. He had been pretty respectful in some posts he made in my practice journal. Heck, wasn't he saying over and over again about how he wanted to see Max when/if he ever went to Australia?

 

In any case.

 

Hundun, I had practiced qigong for about 10 years before doing my first Max workshop. When they say Kunlun isn't qi I would have to agree. Or atleast isn't the same variety of energy I had been familiar with before. I guess you can say everything is some form of energy or another. It's not like I am an expert on qi but it just seems to have a different quality about it.

 

I think your entitled to your opinions but you can still express yourself without "going there".

 

Also, another issue may simply be alot of Taobums have now taken the Kunlun seminar and though your entitled to your opinion of course it's definetly in the minority. I am talking about people who did the seminar. From what I have read the overall majority of people who have done the seminar have had a positive experience.

 

These are all mostly pretty high level people with years of training in different traditions so your position and that of 1 or 2 other people seem to not be the norm.

 

Anyway, take care.

 

Cam

[xenolith]

Agree with Hundun. Until "feels like flying" gets correlated to something of spiritual evolutionary value then it must be considered as spiritual crack. Because it's obtained by means of opening one's wallet serves to further undermine it's spiritual value and suggests an exploitative origin.

 

sean, please reconsider your thoughts of censorship of WYG.

Edited June 21, 2008 by xenolith

[bindo]

Good call Sean. WYG was on his hands and knees begging to be suspended.

 

He seems to have some kind of obsession with Max and Kunlun.

 

And the non stop questions! Not to mention a repeat offender for the same behavior.

[Sahaj Nath]

but Cam,

 

it IS a type of energy that *I* have been familiar with. and no master i've ever known would say it's not a type of qi.

 

in all honesty, i haven't been practicing for 10 straight years, though i've been in touch with various energies since childhood. BUT, i'm willing to bet that i've done more homework, more intense study, more experimentation, than most of the people on this board. the *quality* of my inquiry has been solid.

 

it's not a matter of "positive experience." that's perhaps the grand fallacy of the whole debate. i stated from my very first criticism that i think the technique is effective. but it's as if i told you that i was trained by aliens from the star system Sirius, and as proof i taught you the "Sirius Technique" and it blew your mind with a unique experience. it wouldn't prove my claim in the slightest.

 

there have been blatant lies that have been overlooked because people think the practice works, but the efficacy of the practice DOESN'T HAVE MUCH TO DO WITH WHETHER OR NOT LIES ARE BEING PEDDLED. Plus, none of the experiences shared have much to do with enlightenment. it's supposed to be the quickest path, remember? that claim is already empirically counter-factual. the fact that people still enjoy the practice is irrelevant.

 

as i said all those months ago, i didn't go to the workshop for the practice. i went to seek Max's counsel. and it was painfully disappointing. but since that time i HAVE tried the practice. i practiced for 30 days straight and had sessions that exceeded 3 hours. i had some intense experiences and i enjoyed it quite a bit, but there was nothing i hadn't experienced before. Max's transmission was more profound than i had initially acknowledged, but it wasn't even on par with my first qigong master. it makes me wonder about the cultivation background of all of these people who are so taken with kunlun. either i've been extremely blessed, or these folks really didn't know how to seek.

 

i realize that's kind of a jerk thing to say, but i'm not trying to be insulting. i don't fault anyone for finding what they were missing, but i DO fault them for blindly embracing all the crap that came along with the package.

 

i threw down with Mantra 7 months ago, and in the end he resorted to insults and personal attacks, without AT ALL dealing with the discrepancies i outlined. anyone can go back and read the threads. he'll never concede to wrongdoing because he can't afford to. he's too invested in this venture. *perception* is more important than the truth. and i don't blame Max for that as much as i blame Mantra.

 

and it blows my mind that he can give the kinds of responses that he gives to people's questions, and people gobble it all up uncritically because they perceive him as an authority. that, and because they really want to believe. i've even seen YOU fall into this, even with your 10 years of experience. 10 years is more than enough time to become a master yourself, if your practice is good.

 

whatever. i'm FULLY AWARE that i'm wasting my time writing all this. but i think genuine self-honesty is on my side in this matter.

 

 

Good call Sean. WYG was on his hands and knees begging to be suspended.

 

He seems to have some kind of obsession with Max and Kunlun.

 

And the non stop questions! Not to mention a repeat offender for the same behavior.

 

you have a point, bindo. but it just seems like a pretty weak 'final straw.'

[qijack]

Really makes me laugh everytime i see when people claim that kunlun energy is some sort of special super saiyen energy that can only be cultivated by practicing kunlun taught by max lol.From my experiance it doesnt feel any diffrent from other chi,but thats just me

 

If it were so, other traditions that also practice similiar methods(BTW spontaneous QI Gong is not a rare practice,it is part of many traditions) that have been able to provide proof of there lineage would have an idea about this secret energy.There would be some kind of theory that leaked out or something.

 

But atm all we have is the word of Max on this force that is not Chi

[Mantra68]

"Kunlun" is really just another name for the Universal Life Force. The practice tunes you to this divine harmonic and when you surrender to it you experience its nature.

 

This is not chi.

 

It is the higher mind and the energy that connects everything.

 

Nobody invented this practice nor can anyone claim to be a master of it, but I believe everyone should know how to practice something that allows them to access the infinite Tao.

 

If your practice takes you there then that is the most you (or I) can hope for, and I sincerely hope that is the case. It is just that Kunlun, when done correctly, takes you there quicker than anything most people have tried.

[ToL]

Hello Mantra,

Is there a date for the new upcoming book?

Can you tell what practices will it contain?

Btw, I wanted to know when will the next Europe seminars will be, and if you and Max will be there but don't know if you got my PM.

Thank You,

ToL

[Sahaj Nath]

"Kunlun" is really just another name for the Universal Life Force. The practice tunes you to this divine harmonic and when you surrender to it you experience its nature.

 

This is not chi.

 

It is the higher mind and the energy that connects everything.

 

Nobody invented this practice nor can anyone claim to be a master of it, but I believe everyone should know how to practice something that allows them to access the infinite Tao.

 

If your practice takes you there then that is the most you (or I) can hope for, and I sincerely hope that is the case. It is just that Kunlun, when done correctly, takes you there quicker than anything most people have tried.

 

 

you DO realize that Universal Life Force energy is EXACTLY THE DEFINITION OF REIKI, right? personally, i'd rather concede that it was a form of qi.

 

but regardless, this is maybe one of the most honest and modest posts i've read from you so far. perhaps only strategically modest, and the whole "nobody invented this practice nor can anyone claim to be a master of it" statement is a little silly given all the credentials claimed by the one authority who's teaching it and all the 7402 ascended elders of the lineage who seem to have a rightful claim to mastery, especially if they're teaching practitioners from their spirit dimension, but whatevs.

 

 

i say continue to promote and teach the practice, so long as there are people who are starving for it. i just wish there was more honest straight talk and less make-believe and sensationalism. it's a good enough practice to catch on by its own merits. it's sad that you guys don't trust that.

[Satyalok]

I talked to one of Sifu Jenny Lamb's senior instructors about the Kunlun practice. She said they never called it that, and didn't know what I was talking about until I described the posture. They called it spontaneous "qigong".

 

I mainly called her school as she was readily accessible (don't think Max lists his number), not to try and discredit him or anything. I like the logical/empirical description of things. I don't know who Jenny got it from, but I'm sure she'd let you know..I didn't feel like bothering her as well, since I'm not her student. The practice stands on its own, for sure, and brings results. I think it will be awhile before people hash out all the effects it produces.

 

I personally see a similarity to the kundalini mahayoga kriyas (spontaneous movements) that I have when I sit. I tried doing Kunlun a few weeks, and the movements mixed with one another.

 

Cheers,

 

Satyalok