Kunlun Lineage

[Xienkula1]

I talked to one of Sifu Jenny Lamb's senior instructors about the Kunlun practice. She said they never called it that, and didn't know what I was talking about until I described the posture. They called it spontaneous "qigong".

 

I mainly called her school as she was readily accessible (don't think Max lists his number), not to try and discredit him or anything. I like the logical/empirical description of things. I don't know who Jenny got it from, but I'm sure she'd let you know..I didn't feel like bothering her as well, since I'm not her student. The practice stands on its own, for sure, and brings results. I think it will be awhile before people hash out all the effects it produces.

 

I personally see a similarity to the kundalini mahayoga kriyas (spontaneous movements) that I have when I sit. I tried doing Kunlun a few weeks, and the movements mixed with one another.

 

Cheers,

 

Satyalok

Me too. Only I spoke with Sifu Jenny. It is called Spontaneous Adjustment Qi Gong. It has 3 levels. Max is a qualified instructor. It was not called Kunlun, nor is it associated with the region. It does not have 7402 Masters or other stories( Sound familiar to Takata and Usui). It came from her teacher. It is based on Qi, a type of Qi.

[Jonah]

Satyalok and Xienhula1, you guys are saints!!! Thank you so much, this is EXACTLY what I was looking for.

 

This is definitely something that I would like to look into further. Thanks again for letting us know!

 

Best,

 

Jonah

 

 

Me too. Only I spoke with Sifu Jenny. It is called Spontaneous Adjustment Qi Gong. It has 3 levels. Max is a qualified instructor. It was not called Kunlun, nor is it associated with the region. It does not have 7402 Masters or other stories( Sound familiar to Takata and Usui). It came from her teacher. It is based on Qi, a type of Qi.

[Satyalok]

Her webpage states that she was in the "Honor of Dong Fang Xu", here's a clip:

 

Honor of Dong Fang Xu

 

I saw this movie like 15 years ago...it was the only BAGUA movie I'd ever seen. I recommend it highly.

 

Jenny's a doll!

 

Cheers,

Satyalok

[三江源]

.

Edited March 10, 2015 by 三江源

[Satyalok]

In my system, different experiences and feelings from the moving of prana (qi) are according to WHERE the energy is working. Each energy wheel along the central channel has its own particular vibrational quality and produces different experiences and sensations of bliss.

 

Also, as the divine energy hits samskaras stored in the body (impressions or karmas/blockages), their release triggers physical movements, types of yoga, or any of a multitude of energetic experiences. IMHO, the fundamental nature of the energy is the same, but our individual impressions are unlimited....thus will our experiences be as well.

 

Satyalok

[三江源]

.

Edited March 10, 2015 by 三江源

[Satyalok]

I don't have random responses in my sadhan. The kriyas have a distinct intelligence behind them and perform every movement for a reason. Some are obvious as to the chakra or nerve plexus that they are effecting. We are taught that that intelligence is the ground of all manifestation, and as we progress we will identify with that instead of our ego which sees duality and limitation.

 

I'm not saying this is exactly what's going on with your Kunlun practice. Since I didn't experiment with the practice until after my shaktipat initiation, I cannot cleanly discern what the difference is..only that there are similarities It is my suspicion that movements and bliss arise from the release of samskaras (sanchita karma).

 

Yours in bliss,

Satyalok

[Xienkula1]

Satyalok,

 

Is your teacher Swami G?

 

Da Qi, the Universal Life Force.

 

Zi Fa Gong.

 

Xk.

[Satyalok]

Satyalok,

 

Is your teacher Swami G?

 

Da Qi, the Universal Life Force.

 

Zi Fa Gong.

 

Xk.

 

Nah, Swami Shiv Mangal Tirth...disciple of Swami Shivom Tirth.

 

Satyalok

[Vajrasattva]

*shaking head*

 

Dude, you just don't learn.

 

90 days, next time you're banned.

 

Sean

 

 

Why should he get banned for this?

 

Give me a break the guy is just researching things out for himself.

[Yoda]

Me too. Only I spoke with Sifu Jenny. It is called Spontaneous Adjustment Qi Gong. It has 3 levels. Max is a qualified instructor. It was not called Kunlun, nor is it associated with the region. It does not have 7402 Masters or other stories( Sound familiar to Takata and Usui). It came from her teacher. It is based on Qi, a type of Qi.

 

 

There are lots of taobums who are very interested in Kunlun but put off by Max himself. A solution for those folks might be to study with Sifu Jenny or one of her instructors. It sounds like she'll put it into a more down to earth context.

 

If you groove on the practice, you won't need to go on anyone's word on the matter of lineage.

 

-Yoda

[Vajrasattva]

you DO realize that Universal Life Force energy is EXACTLY THE DEFINITION OF REIKI, right? personally, i'd rather concede that it was a form of qi.

 

 

 

Classic....

[三江源]

[Vajrasattva]

 

I have said i before but here it is again....:

 

KUN LUN

 

"KU LUNG"

 

DRAGON PRANA

 

KUNDALINI

 

Spontaneous reactions and movement = Kriyas

 

KUN LUN REGION was a BONPO area Bonpo predates everything there by at least 10,000 years.

 

Max is not teaching you Bonpo he may be teaching some fragments of taoist practices and I am sure his red dragon practice is the same as his old Indonesian Dragon circulation he used to teach. Which is also not KUN LUN....He also may be teaching SOME Bon & Nyingma as he did in his old tapes but again I do not know how authentic it is to actual KUN LUN.

 

Does it matter where or what he is teaching? No not really. Is Max open and has real energy...Yes. Is it something only he has an noone else on the planet has...NO.

 

If what he teaches you suites you by all means do it.

 

The heels raised is in many systems and it goes all the way back to some of the mahasiddha yogas.

 

end of story.

 

Peace & God Bless,

 

Santiago

[Xienkula1]

Why should he get banned for this?

 

Give me a break the guy is just researching things out for himself.

 

I agree. Please spare WYG some compassion.

 

He is probably a bit shocked after finding out Sifu Jenny does not confirm the stories

or recommend the approach of practicing SAQG along with other types of qi gong.

 

---------------

 

Just spoke with Sifu Andrew Lum. He told me Red Phoenix is something he taught specially for Max, and that he recognises that Max does have a special inborn quality like to a bodhisattva.

 

He says Red Phoenix is better not practiced at same time as SAQG.

 

Seems like a kind man, with Aloha. He focuses on teaching Yang style Tai Chi to the public. He does not teach Red Phoenix. He says Red Phoenix is something very important and special to Max, but not really at all important to Lum. He says his Sifu is indirectly related with Mao Shan and has nothing to do with Shaolin Kung Fu. Sifu Lum does not know anything about Golden Dragon, and does not teach Golden Dragon. He says Red Phoenix is not related to Golden Dragon.

Edited June 21, 2008 by Xienkula1

[Yoda]

Obviously what Max says is in disagreement with both his teachers. I have no problem with that.

 

Sifu Jenny and Sifu Lum seem to have a live-and-let-live philosophy towards Max and Max is obviously very fond of both of them. It's nice to see that disagreements can coexist with a friendly spirit.

 

 

Does it matter where or what he is teaching? No not really. Is Max open and has real energy...Yes. Is it something only he has an noone else on the planet has...NO.

 

Well said, but shouldn't you be working?

[JazZen]

As I have written: http://mykunlun.com/blogs/kunlun/archive/2...-tradition.aspx

 

Before we take on a practice or accept some one as a teacher there is a bit of research we must do.

 

Lineage of a tradition is important.

 

Some of the lineages can be traced back. As an example in Zen, when one is initiated, they prepare a lineage chart. this chart traces ones lineage all the way back to Buddha. The problem with not having a lineage is that a teacher you are working with could have teachings that are not genuine. In most for a student to be given permission to teach, thier teacher verify that they are ready. Otherwise we can read book, take little from here, little from there and start teaching.

 

We should also do a bit of research about the teacher, see how they treat their students.

 

"It takes a teacher to show you that you dont need a teacher". In many traditions as Zen and Kunlun, teachers encourage you to not treat them as a Guru/Seifu. One does not have to/should not give ones power to another being. Its so easy to get aweeeed by someones presence and unconsiously gives one energy, give control to a teacher. We must always be in control, we must question every practice we are given and not follow anything blindly.

 

We should never make any one our Guru and give them all our powers. The real power is within you. A teacher can only show you, and you still have to do the work.

 

In Zen they have a concept of 3 pillars. Three pillars of zen: Belief, Doubt, Determination

 

Belief: First one must believe that the system works, even perhaps works looking/reading/seeing it.

 

Doubt: then once must doubt as to how/why it works. Doubt fuels your practice

 

Determination: One must have the determination to do the practice.

 

 

Choosing a teacher: I have read and heard that "ones teacher is allready there, its a matter of finding them or the student being ready and the teacher appears".

 

________________________________________

 

Having said all above, I somehow ended up to Max's seminar, and upon experiencing rare energy for myself decided to take the weekend course.

 

For me Max, was able to show me things that I have only read in books.

He would say again and again that we dont call him a teacher or sefu or guru. He was just giving it out, showing the practices to those that wanted it.

 

To me it seems - as Max has said that he has learned from many traditions: Bonpo. tao, Shaman, Tibetan...

He is a unique teacher and has a unique style of teaching.

 

I am sure that practices he is teaching, exist but in esoteric fashion. I dont think they have been widely given out. You would have to learn for years in India, China, Tibet to get some of similar practices. And then to you would never be allowed to show or teach them in public.

 

Even Max encourages everyone to not blindly learn a practice or follow any one, He says to go out and research the lineage, check out the teacher, talk to past students.

 

________________________

 

Buddha was once visiting a village and teaching, to the villagers said, we have a problem that some teacher comes and says to do this way another one comes and says to do it another way, our tradition says one thing, another tradition says another, What do we do ? Who do we follow ?

 

In reply to villagers in he said in (Kalama Sutta)

 

Do not follow anything because:

- a teacher says so

- a tradition says so

-your family culture says so

-your religion says so

.......

 

 

"Rely not on the teacher/person, but on the teaching.

Rely not on the words of the teaching, but on the spirit of the words.

Rely not on theory, but on experience.

Do not believe in anything simply because you

have heard it.

Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations.

Do not believe anything because it is spoken and rumored by many.

Do not believe in anything because it is written in your religious books.

Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders.

But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is

conducive to the good and the benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it."

 

- the Buddha

 

 

Teachers are always there, its a matter of student to be ready

Ultimately if your heart agrees, then practice is for you and teachers is yours.

Edited June 21, 2008 by JazZen

[rain]

I don't have random responses in my sadhan. The kriyas have a distinct intelligence behind them and perform every movement for a reason. Some are obvious as to the chakra or nerve plexus that they are effecting. We are taught that that intelligence is the ground of all manifestation, and as we progress we will identify with that instead of our ego which sees duality and limitation.

 

I'm not saying this is exactly what's going on with your Kunlun practice. Since I didn't experiment with the practice until after my shaktipat initiation, I cannot cleanly discern what the difference is..only that there are similarities It is my suspicion that movements and bliss arise from the release of samskaras (sanchita karma).

 

Yours in bliss,

Satyalok

 

 

now that is a sensible response, sounds just right and it sounds like you are taught details. I would like to know more about your teacher. is there info online?

 

rain

[三江源]

.

Edited March 10, 2015 by 三江源

[Mantra68]

I personally have not asked Max about the lineage of Kunlun beyond Jenny getting it from her teachers. Having met her and heard the stories about her teachers and the things they could do was, for me, sufficient.

 

I am humbled to know her and I feel honored to be part of what she has shared with me. If I asked her about her teachers, she may tell me more but then again she may not.

 

She certainly doesn't owe me anything as I don't owe any of you anything, but since your decision to even try the practice seems to cautiously hinge on this kind of information, maybe I will try to find out more.

 

The truth is, lineage, to me, never mattered much. I know some about Max's Mao Shan and Wu Dang lineages but they don't really matter to me either. My personal experience with the methods, the effects of the practice, the depths it could take me and how many lives I have seen transformed by it, were and are the most important thing. Just like I don't care if Jesus himself was the alleged creator of a method, if the method stinks then it doesn't matter where it came from.

 

Kunlun happens to work. Red Phoenix, Red Dragon, Black Dragon, Golden Flower, and the other methods Max teaches, work. Also, they ALL predate Taoism and Buddhism.

 

If you really care about lineage you must go back to those who brought these things to this realm, and if that is something you REALLY want to know, you will need a truly open mind.

 

Much to my surprise, the "teachers" from this lineage actually do come to work with you because they recognize the frequency you are generating by doing "their" practice. They see your light shining like a bonfire among dim candles and when you meet the real teachers you may not believe your eyes. Talk about going into the rabbit hole...

 

I hope you have a chance to experience this for yourself.

 

Additionally, you must understand also that Max's experience with Kunlun is very different than Jenny's experience. His siddhas are different from hers, he has a different spirit that he brings to this and he has different insights into the practice (as do each of us that takes it up).

 

He understands applications of the energy and he can demonstrate these applications in ways no one else can. He is the master technician (my words, not his) and to study with him is a truly special opportunity.

 

Jenny has become a Buddhist scholar and is no longer teaching the Taoist ways. So, if Max also decided not to teach, this information would be gone and it would be a great challenge finding someone else who is open and willing to share.

 

Max certainly doesn't claim to hold any sort of patent on Spontaneous Nei Gung. I have read of other schools who do similar practices and have their own rich history. There are different terms for the different practices that may actually all be similar at the root. That is how it is and I think that is great. The more the merrier.

 

It doesn't matter what you practice, as long as the practice you are doing is effective in opening you up.

 

At the highest levels there is a universality to the human experience of spiritual awakening. You do "A" and you will get "B."

 

When the highest masters of different schools meet, they can see that the other has the same understanding. Many times after a quick glance they nod to each other with a recognition that the other has a certain experience of Universal Truth.

 

At the mystical level of any tradition there is an almost uniform understanding of the great mystery, but at the fundamentalist levels people are killing each other over the meaningless details of the methods.

 

 

Sometimes it is more than prerequisites though that close us. Sometime we are looking for excuses to reject something that we know will work. We throw up blocks to our own evolution in many ways. If it isn't one thing (lineage, correct spelling, etc.) it is another.

 

You are either ready for real evolution or you are not.

 

Standing practice is a good honest measuring stick. If you can stand (I-Jong or 5 elements) for an entire 1 hour session then you have truly accomplished something, because you have overcome everything inside of you that, after a only few minutes, is screaming to bail out.

 

If you walk away in the middle of standing practice, you've failed. Your lower mind wins and really you have cheated yourself from experiencing the full benefits of the practice. Your mind may immediately begin justifying the failure and start making excuses (bad knee, cramps, the teacher sucks, etc) but the fact is you are only trying to cover the fact that you couldn't go all the way.

 

The mind is the general, the body is the soldier, but the heart is the emperor. The heart knows what we need and so it commands, "stand." The mind and body must be made to obey the greater wisdom.

 

If you feel my answers here are sufficient reason to dismiss the practice of Kunlun, then that is unfortunate. There are plenty of testimonials from the dozens of people on this forum who have experienced the real benefits. I only know a little. But you will be cheating yourself of the opportunity to experience a very powerful method that has been brought from secrecy to the world and one that quickly opens you to your highest states.

 

It is available to you now if you want to learn it and that means I have done my job.

 

Do Kunlun or go and do something else.

[Sahaj Nath]

I talked to one of Sifu Jenny Lamb's senior instructors about the Kunlun practice. She said they never called it that, and didn't know what I was talking about until I described the posture. They called it spontaneous "qigong".

 

 

Me too. Only I spoke with Sifu Jenny. It is called Spontaneous Adjustment Qi Gong. It has 3 levels. Max is a qualified instructor. It was not called Kunlun, nor is it associated with the region. It does not have 7402 Masters or other stories( Sound familiar to Takata and Usui). It came from her teacher. It is based on Qi, a type of Qi.

 

 

finally, some honesty about the practice is out there.

 

you two rock!

 

 

 

Spontaneous Adjustment Qigong. and it has NOTHING AT ALL to do with the kunlun school. Marketing this practice as the holy grail and the quickest path to enlightenment is downright unethical.

 

i hope people will sober up. by all means continue to enjoy the practice, but sober up about Max and Mantra and the Lineage and the lies.

 

but i already know that many will still cling to the fairy tales and are probably aching for Mantra to reply with some explanation that soothe away the discomfort they're feeling about possibly having been duped. it happened 8 months ago after the SF workshop.

 

EDIT:

 

looks like that already happened.

 

well, you people are adults. you'll decide for yourselves what you want to believe. as always.

Edited June 21, 2008 by Hundun

[Xienkula1]

I will speak for myself. Im not coming up with any excuses for not doing practice(s), nor am I dishonoring Max, his teachers or methods. I really wanted to verify where they were from, that's important to me. So I followed my heart and contacted them. Jenny is willing to teach her way. She seems like a great teacher. She has not given up Qi Gong even though she teaches Buddhism.

 

Interesting you say Max has a different connection with the system of SAQG she shared with him. It would be nice to hear some elaboration about that connection. She told me that spirits, masters, don't work with SAQG. It seems to be her view of things. If it has a 7000 root tradition, anything is possible....

 

She did confirm it's better to sit for the first few months, then stand later in the practice. She said all 3 levels are important, but 1 does most of the opening.

 

Would you please reveal who taught Max the Red Dragon, Black Dragon, Golden Dragon systems, as Sifu Jenny and Sifu Lum claim Max learned these somewhere else, if you happen to have any information? That would be appreciated.

[Mantra68]

Would you please reveal who taught Max the Red Dragon, Black Dragon, Golden Dragon systems, as Sifu Jenny and Sifu Lum claim Max learned these somewhere else, if you happen to have any information? That would be appreciated.

Do you really think that you can just call these people up and have them give you straight answers? Do you know anything of tradition? It is wrong to do that.

 

Max was raised in the Wu Dang system from age 6. He has had many powerful teachers and knows much that Jenny and Sifu Lum do not. They may have given him methods but he has taken those methods beyond. Also, Jenny and Sifu Lum do not reveal everything. Why should they? They don't know you.

 

Out of respect for them, I will let their statements stand.

 

"Red Phoenix is only important to Max and Spontaneous Kunlun Nei Gung has other names."

 

More information would probably help you curious folks but this is crossing some lines I dare not tread. I was wrong to give these names. I will give you no more and I don't care how it makes things look.

 

There is a lot more to all of this that I am not going to discuss here. Those of you who know what I am talking about will definitely understand.

 

The methods work, and they have been made available to you. When you become initiated you can know more.

 

Max may clarify if he chooses for the actual students of Kunlun on our forum.

[styrofoamdog]

So we now know that what Max teaches as Kunlun level 1 and fills with poetic ideas about mysterious hidden energies, was simply known as Spontaneous Adjustment Qigong, and utilizes qi.

 

What Max and Jenny teach is the same basic thing. What they teach is the same as what Wong Kiew-kit teaches as Self-Manifested Qi Flow. Wow, who would have ever guessed that a practice like Kunlun level 1, which assumes a posture and allows the body to completely relax and react to internal stimuli, would be extremely similar to another that has the exact same methods?

 

You Kunlun people and your silly games... Just because you say you're cultivating a special and unique universal bliss energy passed down from shamans and Egyptian mystery schools doesn't make it so.

[dakini]

I hate posting messages for everyone to see, but I have some concerns about your research. I, myself, have been a reporter for FOX, CBS and other news outlets for about 12 years. I spend a lot of my time doing research and "investigating" people and their backgrounds. I absolutely understand your quest for knowledge, however, I know for a fact, that you don't have the full story. By posting your partial research, you are really making Max look bad. I guarantee you, he is the real deal and there is more to this practice than his teachers would tell a stranger. Andrew Lum and Jenny Lamb are very nice people (and very powerful) but there is information they won't share with long-time students, much less, a stranger on the phone. Also, they aren't Max's only teachers.

 

There is so much more that cannot even be understood by the average person. It would take an open mind and experience to truly understand. I took the leap because my inuition/ higher-self made me feel very strongly to do so. Also, I knew Max as a person first and foremost (not a just a teacher) and knew he was a beautiful soul who I could trust.

 

Please complete your research before posting further information. This really could be hurtful to those of us who spend so much time trying to share this practice with others. Mantra (Chris) is working on putting together a more detailed account of Max's background.

 

Please just be careful what you post, though. It really can be hurtful if you don't have the full story, especially because there are so many people that are looking hard for a reason to discredit Max.

 

Blogs can really be hurtful. Max works so hard to help people and cares so much. I would really even hate for him to see what's being posted in response to your "research". I know he will, though. :-(

 

With respect and sincerity,

Dakini

(Eileen Gonzales)