Kunlun Lineage

[sean]

Off topic interruption: I didn't ban WYG, he is just suspended from the forum for 90 days. I said next time he will be banned. I've suspended him I think three times now but apparently he just can't resist flaming Kunlun. But this isn't about liking Kunlun or Max. Obviously you are perfectly free to think whatever you want about any teacher or practice, and the forum is wide open for discussion of skepticism, grievances, etc. However, the guidelines are obviously crossed when your post contains both sweeping negative accusations and/or insults and simultaneously contributes little to nothing to the discussion. As I've said before I believe this is a spiritually sound forum guideline that requires we not pointlessly shoot off energy aggressively. This only causes more of the same and flame wars rapidly lower the whole vibe of a forum. Time and awareness must be taken to refine impulsive energy into something constructive. WYG has been doing ok, but then he spazzed out with "There is no Kunlun energy is all made up from Max, the story is also made up from Max like most of his practices he has combinned many and is still creating more!! He is a FRAUD, do your homework i said this when i 1st came here and ill stick to my guns!". I sincerely appreciate the feedback about my decision, and I'll probably unsuspend him in 30 days, but I know he knows the guidelines really well by now and has to operate within them or else he's not welcome here.

 

Best,

Sean

[Vajrasattva]

Off topic interruption: I didn't ban WYG, he is just suspended from the forum for 90 days. I said next time he will be banned. I've suspended him I think three times now but apparently he just can't resist flaming Kunlun. But this isn't about liking Kunlun or Max. Obviously you are perfectly free to think whatever you want about any teacher or practice, and the forum is wide open for discussion of skepticism, grievances, etc. However, the guidelines are obviously crossed when your post contains both sweeping negative accusations and/or insults and simultaneously contributes little to nothing to the discussion. As I've said before I believe this is a spiritually sound forum guideline that requires we not pointlessly shoot off energy aggressively. This only causes more of the same and flame wars rapidly lower the whole vibe of a forum. Time and awareness must be taken to refine impulsive energy into something constructive. WYG has been doing ok, but then he spazzed out with "There is no Kunlun energy is all made up from Max, the story is also made up from Max like most of his practices he has combinned many and is still creating more!! He is a FRAUD, do your homework i said this when i 1st came here and ill stick to my guns!". I sincerely appreciate the feedback about my decision, and I'll probably unsuspend him in 30 days, but I know he knows the guidelines really well by now and has to operate within them or else he's not welcome here.

 

Best,

Sean

 

personally i think you are being harsh i mean he is just "seeking" and that is where his heart is right now. Sure he can be intense but not as intense as anyone else that posts here. I am sure on a personal level he believed at a point that someone like Max is infallible but he is realizing Max is as human as the rest of us no matter how much "Awakening". Does Max bend the truth? Well he has been known to in the past.

 

Does it take away from the nice energy he emits and his abilities...No.

 

I have had many Lamas that "bent" the truth a lot yet had great energy to play with. So I would not crucify them nor Max either. I personally prefer the truth as much as possible but hey you can't "expect" anything on a Path such as "TANTRA" or "BLISS".

 

WYG is a sincere seeker. And you can not crucify him for asking questions.... I would too if i was about to study with someone that has a strange background and a falsified death and a boat load of students from the past that say the "new" version is just not the same guy.

 

Anyhow just my 2 cents.

 

I have tried to get off the forum but seems I keep getting dragged in : ) Its ok though I really do enjoy a lot of you here.

 

Give WYG a break under the circumstances.....To be honest with you Max could also be a little more active in being more upfront with people....

 

 

God Bless

 

Santiago

Edited June 22, 2008 by Vajrasattva

[Sahaj Nath]

hmm.

 

fair enough, Sean.

 

i guess i can understand that.

[Mantra68]

personally i think you are being harsh i mean he is just "seeking" and that is where his heart is right now. Sure he can be intense but not as intense as anyone else that posts here. I am sure on a personal level he believed at a point that someone like Max is infallible but he is realizing Max is as human as the rest of us no matter how much "Awakening". Does Max bend the truth? Well he has been known to in the past.

 

Does it take away from the nice energy he emits and his abilities...No.

 

I have had many Lamas that "bent" the truth a lot yet had great energy to play with. So I would not crucify them nor Max either. I personally prefer the truth as much as possible but hey you can't "expect" anything on a Path such as "TANTRA" or "BLISS".

 

WYG is a sincere seeker. And you can not crucify him for asking questions.... I would too if i was about to study with someone that has a strange background and a falsified death and a boat load of students from the past that say the "new" version is just not the same guy.

Max is very up front when he says he is "coyote." He teaches you something one way and the next he teaches it the other. The point is for you to understand the ESSENCE of the practice. It is a brilliant method and is very effective.

 

What is your problem with Tantra and Bliss practices?

 

I completely understand WYG's position, but statements like there are "boat loads" of old students who don't even recognize the "new" Max are crap. That isn't true at all. Where are these boat loads?

 

He has changed by switching from a veg diet to an omnivore diet so he finally gained some stoutness, but so what? He is still the same guy.

 

Also he is teaching things he never shared before. That is actually a good thing.

 

I thought you were further along than your recent posts seem to indicate.

 

You don't know him personally, do you?

[JazZen]

I think its ok for any one to ask about the lineage and be cautious, if they havent met Max or taken the seminar. There are so many people in my group that were so skeptical about this practice, but each one of them as accepted it first listening to me then seeing it in action with Oscar.

 

People need to know where it comes from and who the past teachers are, there is nothing wrong for asking that. Max himself in the seminar said that we should question the lineage and practice.

 

BUT CLEARLY, few people here are choosing this topic to discredit Max and the practices.

 

I would personally also be offended if anyone says anything negative about Max, but I am reminded of the below story.... and rather than get caught up, i simply choose to smile

 

 

 

All of max's students who respect and cherish him, I would like to say that please dont get caught up any ones negative energy.

 

You seem to be far ahead than me and closer to Max. I know I may offend you but, Please dont take me wrong but telling anyone that you dont owe then anything..... You are so blessed to be where you are, my sincere request that please be humble....

 

 

---------------------

 

 

Buddha - How not to accept others anger

 

A story that always sticks to me, that my grandfather used to tell me many times: Once Buddha was passing through a village and during his stay there he was giving a talk to the locals. During this talk, a local ascetic got very upset. He was upset as people had started listening to and following Buddha instead of him.

 

He got so angry that one day he came and spit on buddha's face and started shouting. At this Buddha simply smiled. Buddha's followers and local leaders were upset and wanted to take revenge. But Buddha stopped them saying that it was between him and the ascetic, they didnt need to do anything, and calmed them to wait.

 

The ascetic went home but could not sleep. Next day he came back and bowed to Buddha's feet and said, who are you ? what have you done to me ? At this Buddha replied, I havent done anything, All I did was to not accept your negative energy when you were angry. By not accepting it, the negative energy stayed with you.

 

Grandfather used to end it with analogy, If I have 10 dollars and I offer them to you, but you say No thanks! then who has the 10 dollars ? I do. But if you accept the 10 dollars add to it and give them back to me then the cycle continues...

 

Similarly, Anger is a like a coal, a burning coal. First it burns the person who has it, then they throw it others. If the other person accepts it, it burns them. They take it add fire to it, and then throw it back .... and cycle continues.

Edited June 22, 2008 by JazZen

[Vajrasattva]

Max is very up front when he says he is "coyote." He teaches you something one way and the next he teaches it the other. The point is for you to understand the ESSENCE of the practice. It is a brilliant method and is very effective.

 

If it suits you great and I mean that from the heart.

 

 

What is your problem with Tantra and Bliss practices?

 

Who said I have a problem with TANTRA & BLISS practices? I certainly never did. TANTRA & BLISS is what i do

 

I have the greatest bliss of all, a Real Connection to my true ROOT GURU.

 

I do not need anything else truly.

 

 

I completely understand WYG's position, but statements like there are "boat loads" of old students who don't even recognize the "new" Max are crap. That isn't true at all. Where are these boat loads?

 

Well I know of 4 personally I know others that know of some aswell that are different. 4 fit on a small boat so that would be a boat load. But again it doesn't matter. Max makes you happy great. Party on.

 

He has changed by switching from a veg diet to an omnivore diet so he finally gained some stoutness, but so what? He is still the same guy.

 

Good for him he was a bit too skinny. That is good he is eating well.

 

Also he is teaching things he never shared before. That is actually a good thing.

 

Well again Good I am happy for him and for those of you that are loyal to him. Loyalty to your teacher is a a good thing.

 

You don't know him personally, do you?

 

I have done enough real dream Yoga to know who Max is. As I said before I like Max.

 

I do not suscribe to what he does now nor care to. If it works for you GREAT. Follow your heart.

 

I thought you were further along than your recent posts seem to indicate.

 

Think what you want frankly it makes no difference to me My development is real and it comes from the source of all sources and yes it can be impregnated into Cassettes, CDs, DVDs, Internet messages and or any medium for that matter. All I can say to you is.... God bless you.

 

Santiago

[styrofoamdog]

Following your Dharma and calling Max's teachers was not the right thing to do. He is not happy about it.

 

My problem is not with what they said to you (I totally understand that) it is the fact that you call them up and bothered them in the first place.

 

You don't even know them and they sure as hell don't know you.

Why all the hostility about these very simple and basic questions being asked? His teachers probably don't like being portrayed as crotchety old traditionalists who are bothered by a question about their pupil. If they were offended by the questions, they wouldn't have answered them. But they gave very direct answers about what Max learned, and the things that they don't know about his practices now.

 

I don't know plenty of people, but if I were curious about something and want to find out an answer from the source, I would ask them. Is that really such a bad thing? When comparing Kunlun level 1 and Spontaneous Adjustment Qigong, why wouldn't someone want to ask Jenny? Especially when Max never fully explains his Kunlun lineage.

Edited June 22, 2008 by styrofoamdog

[Mantra68]

All I can say to you is.... God bless you.

 

Santiago

All good man. Lets just all agree to speak from personal experience. Speculation gets us nowhere.

[satyagraha]

finally, some honesty about the practice is out there.

 

you two rock!

Spontaneous Adjustment Qigong. and it has NOTHING AT ALL to do with the kunlun school. Marketing this practice as the holy grail and the quickest path to enlightenment is downright unethical.

 

i hope people will sober up. by all means continue to enjoy the practice, but sober up about Max and Mantra and the Lineage and the lies.

 

but i already know that many will still cling to the fairy tales and are probably aching for Mantra to reply with some explanation that soothe away the discomfort they're feeling about possibly having been duped. it happened 8 months ago after the SF workshop.

 

EDIT:

 

looks like that already happened.

 

well, you people are adults. you'll decide for yourselves what you want to believe. as always.

Hundun, you should really look at yourself in the mirror.

[Aetherous]

So much drama.

 

Bottom line: the kunlun practice is great, regardless of what you call it or where it comes from. Max is kind for sharing it, in whatever way he does.

 

Some people in this topic have some growing to do.

[mjjbecker]

..

Edited June 29, 2009 by mjjbecker

[bindo]

What Chris has said today makes sense to me. I guess I just don't understand why there is so much controversy about Max and Kunlun.

 

My experience with Kunlun is similar to Craig's. Three days after receiving the transmission from Max, and calling on the Kunlun Master's for guidance in my practice, I had a very beautiful and gentle, but powerful experience that was enough confirmation for me to believe that there is more going on here than a simple spontaneous qigong practice.

--------------------------------------------

 

"The traditions of the past are very great in their own place, in the past, but I do not see why we should merely repeat them and not go farther. In the spiritual development of the consciousness upon earth the great past ought to be followed by a greater future."

 

Sri Aurobindo

[Vajrasattva]

Well hopefully this will spur some laughter and innersmile around here by whatever means necessary

 

5fciCmref9s

[Sahaj Nath]

Hundun, you should really look at yourself in the mirror.

 

 

i do. more than you know. sorry if you find me grotesque.

[Vajrasattva]

i do. more than you know. sorry if you find me grotesque.

 

 

No worries mate.

 

I do not find you grotesque you are a good man Brother.

 

God Bless

 

Santiago

[rain]

Edited June 22, 2008 by rain

[Guest allan]

[Taomeow]

[satyagraha]

Actually, possession by spirits is not necessarily possession by dark spirits, as illustrated (e.g.) by a famous Brazilian healer, John of God, whose intervention I experienced last year. He, however, still claims lineages, albeit spiritual ones, in that he names the names of his main spirit helpers and surrounds himself with their portraits when doing his healing work. His helpers, according to him, have spirit helpers of their own, and so the sum total of entities (the word he uses) invoked can be in the thousands. None of them are supposed to be "dark spirits," however.

 

One thing I would expect Max to have (and I don't know him, mind you, nor the practice -- but I know other "entities" and practices so I dare extrapolate a bit) would be an open communication line with the world of spirits, because of a striking fact of his biography (the sole survivor of the birth of triplets). Communication with the spirit world is always, in all shamanic traditions, established via a difficult quest, often life-and-death, or else gained spontaneously in a serious accident or life-threatening illness. From everything I've learned so far, I surmise Max may be a recipient of a shamanic transmission, like John of God? If that's the case he might be neither a new age teacher nor a lineage one, but a natural born shaman? And shamans can study anything they like (and often do) and incorporate whatever they please, any which odds and ends, the difference between them and the new age mix-and-match eclecticism being that they actually have the line of communication open to the spirit world. Of course there's numerous other possibilities.

 

A spirit lineage is indeed impossible to prove in some cases. Lu Dongbin himself learned from his teacher four hundred years after the latter left the mortal realm.

you are on to something, however I am not qualified or knowledgeable enough to reply to this statement.

[mjjbecker]

..

Edited June 29, 2009 by mjjbecker

[sean]

From everything I've learned so far, I surmise Max may be a recipient of a shamanic transmission, like John of God? If that's the case he might be neither a new age teacher nor a lineage one, but a natural born shaman? And shamans can study anything they like (and often do) and incorporate whatever they please, any which odds and ends, the difference between them and the new age mix-and-match eclecticism being that they actually have the line of communication open to the spirit world.

Really well put. FWIW, this is precisely the impression I got of Max.

 

Sean

[宁]

Ditto. Or as someone else put it, Ling related phenomena.

The elixir, solid base that would be accounted for any abnormal phenomena, takes a longer time to cook.

The fact that they happen alot faster... kind of indicates in that idea.

My teacher told me that influence of spirits, either good or bad, in daoism, is as sought as the influence of tape worms. That is, it's not sought.

We're just shooting in the dark really, but nevertheless with some experience, and good observation, our conclusions could be right.

How about the repeated allegation that Kunlun predates Buddhism and Taoism. As far as I know, the only practices older than that are spirits-related.

 

 

IF this is the truth, then Kunlun could be sidetracking the practicioners that seek faster energy and spirit effects in their life. Im not the one to judge, but as i repeated often, a couple of months ago, if you dont have a philosophy and a good story to back up your practice system, people will start making judgements on their own. It's interesting to observe the evolution of Kunlun practice, in the interaction with western practicioners.

 

There is no such thing as fast effects and results.

The old chinese character for Alchemy depicts an alchemy oven and the sign for divination, pointing at the time cycles. They seem to be largely dependant. What do you think?

 

L1

Edited June 23, 2008 by Little1

[seadog]

I also have had contact with John Of God and no doubt he channels powerfull healing energy.The spirits that surround him are very powerful and have the ability to open you wiiiiiide.However it must be remebered that there is no free lunch as it were.When John of God is not incorporating entities he is very weak and relies very heavly on those around him for love and support- not that there is anything wrong with that,but it does take its toll upon him to be possesed by the spirits.

I also knew a female shaman when I lived in northern Ontario,the spirits she worked with were ancient animal entities,very compelling and very powerful.They gave her the time of her life for a few years until they started to drive her mad with their constant demands. Lacking the proper training and correct methods to deal with such a force she retreated to the safety of pentocostal christanity much to the relief of her family and friends (they began to tire of having common household items thrown at their head and the smell of death permeating their house for days on end)

 

One thing I have noticed in regards to humans dealing with spirits and vice versa is how such contact effects ones appetite.If you are doing a practice that has you long for unwholsome food i.e. sugar,alcohol,complex carbs,choclate then I would be very weary with dealing with such energy.

Simple as it is any practise that reqires you to eat less food or compells you to eat clean food is a practice well worth pursueing.

[YMWong]

Earnest students should check for themselves or with those in China or the Far East, what Mao Shan shaman practices entail.

 

For your information, Maoshan Pai and Shamanism are not only unrelated but cannot possibly go along together.

A Maoshan daoist is an orthodox lineal master who would see the shaman as an un-orthodox "red-head" popular magician

 

YM

[Wun Yuen Gong]

To All,

 

I like to appoligies for my rants about Max and his Kunlun students as well his following on the forum, my intentions was to bring to people some information i have been told from many people without meeting him myself.

 

I also like to thank Sean for allowing me back on the forum i do come here all the time and i guess its like my time away from stress and have a good time. Ive met some great people here and now friends i hope i didnt hurt MAx's credibilty or his art.

 

Anyway i do enjoy reading the kunlun threads and joining in finding more information on it as many people are getting results and changing them on different levels.

 

 

I would also like to thank the people that didnt think i should be suspended i really do appreciate your help in maybe changing Seans mind and allowing back to the forum.

 

Peace and blessings to all!

 

WYG

Edited June 23, 2008 by Wun Yuen Gong