---

[Yoda]

Lama Tantrapa,

 

It's a real honor to have you visit taobums! I hope to see you around more often, but if not, please do keep us posted regarding workshops, publications, etc.

 

Your pal,

Yoda

[Sahaj Nath]

Lama Tantrapa,

 

It's a real honor to have you visit taobums! I hope to see you around more often, but if not, please do keep us posted regarding workshops, publications, etc.

 

Your pal,

Yoda

 

 

Indeed. Welcome, Friend.

[Sahaj Nath]

All true spiritual initiations are experiential and therefore can't be taught only pointed to. The very idea of 'selling' a spiritual initiation is as ludicrous as it is disrespectful. By the way if anybody has a copy I could do with a good laugh.

 

 

not that you care, but this is kind of thing that rubbed me so wrong about you. you make tremendously sweeping judgments about things you don't know enough about. the last time i suggested you do more homework you got your panties in a bunch and you couldn't drop the issue for like a month.

 

 

as a general rule, any declaration that starts with "All true [insert subject here]..." tends to be an overstatement, an exaggeration, and insufficiently supported by data. you tend to support such claims with attitude more than you do data of any kind. it's not just that you can be a jerk about things, it's that so many of your points lack credibility because your arrogance seems to prevent you from doing the necessary work to make a legitimate case for yourself.

 

so you end up presenting yourself like a petulant child.

 

 

i think there are probably some strong and fair criticisms that can be made about this system, but i don't think you're close to making them. and just like before, i'm not alone in that opinion.

Edited July 8, 2008 by Hundun

[Patrick Brown]

OK I had a quick look through the book, very quick, and I can't see anything particularly negative misleading or dangerous in it. My personal view about initiations not being able to be taught, especially by mp3, still stand though.

 

This system actually looks quite interesting and I'd be happy to hear how other people have gotten on with it. I'm therefore giving Lama Tantrapa the benefit of the doubt regrading what he means by 'initiation'. Perhaps there's room for clarity here.

 

Anyway from my quick glance of the book all I can say is it looks interesting.

[gendao]

This guy has a clip on youtube somewhere and to be honest i wasnt impressed with his movements or structure etc.

That was my honest opinion too - no offense to Lama here, or claim to be right about it...

[Patrick Brown]

[Jedi777]

I dint think he was saying a spiritual initiation is on the mp3 I think he is saying an into to his teaching--but energy can be transmitted through cd's and video--so no big deal

[Taiji Bum]

Off Topic Alert!

 

If I tell you I've seen the mind of god you will probably laugh. If I tell you I've seen the white field you will probably mock me. If I tell you I have seen the primordial nature of the universe you will probably tell me I'm a liar.

Is this true? I for one would like to hear about it if you have! Have you recorded your journey here in a journal?

[sheng zhen]

If I tell you I've seen the white field you will probably mock me.

whats the white field?

[Patrick Brown]

Off Topic Alert!

Is this true? I for one would like to hear about it if you have! Have you recorded your journey here in a journal?

Darin it's experiential I can tell you stuff and point and say this and that and it may help lead you to your own realisation/s but to be honest there's plenty of blinding teachings out there. Perhaps you have even experienced more mystical states than me perhaps you are more enlightened than me. But one thing is true we can all only work with what we have learned, know and experienced.

 

I mentioned on one of my recent posts how I had a peak experience years ago where my head/mind seemed to expand for miles and I felt a deep peace and connectedness to everything. I have spoken to old people that are not spiritual and they said they have had such experiences.

 

I could tell you about the oneness but MC Escher is good for that.

 

Anyway spiritual practice is about cultivation so my experiences may not count for much at the end of the day but they have certainly helped me evolve my own practice which has much in common with Taoism and Tibetan Buddhism.

[Sahaj Nath]

OK I had a quick look through the book, very quick, and I can't see anything particularly negative misleading or dangerous in it. My personal view about initiations not being able to be taught, especially by mp3, still stand though.

 

This system actually looks quite interesting and I'd be happy to hear how other people have gotten on with it. I'm therefore giving Lama Tantrapa the benefit of the doubt regrading what he means by 'initiation'. Perhaps there's room for clarity here.

 

Anyway from my quick glance of the book all I can say is it looks interesting.

 

 

right on.

 

 

 

 

If I tell you I've seen the mind of god you will probably laugh. If I tell you I've seen the white field you will probably mock me. If I tell you I have seen the primordial nature of the universe you will probably tell me I'm a liar.

 

 

see, that's just it. i WOULDN'T. i wouldn't laugh, or mock, or call you a liar. but you seem to sometimes be really quick to do those things to others when you don't know what they know, or where they've been. this is one of those instances where it stings to call it like i see it, because it sort of takes one to know one. i have a similar tendency to be pre-judgmental, but i'm getting better. i also have an arrogance thing, and i don't work all that hard at correcting that trait.

 

if you HAVE had those experiences, it's still up to you to take from those experiences the right lessons. awareness of the limits and general ignorance of the ego consciousness should probably be somewhere in those lessons.

 

 

all of this holds true for me as well. GOD KNOWS i'm no saint. but this is all in love. i have no ill will toward you whatsoever. and i think your last statement on Qi Dao is both fair and open, rather than abrasive and closed off. so right on.

 

 

take care, brother.

[Patrick Brown]

whats the white field?

I'm getting tired so I'll try and answer this quick and simple.

 

To some it is the point between life and death such as the water vapour reaching to the sun atop the highest peaks. This darkest light the gateway formed by the image of the two intersecting tetrahedrons. The seed falls as the gateway opens then the cube unfolds and so the everlasting cycle is renewed. Like snow (hexagon, six pointed) the flow of life begins it's next journey, it's next wheel and so it turns.

 

It is also the highest point within this cycle/ring/round, the point at which we will all move to the next cycle at some point in the future. I'm not a hardcore mystic but I think it's where those that have become Buddha's, Saint's etc abide/wait.

 

Sorry I'm too tired and to be honest I don't go out of my way to remember all my insights otherwise I might end up as a fruitcake! Snow, light water these should help you understand. For those that just want to see it now you can either die or take a deep sniff of something containing ketone's, which probably won't kill you but you might get a whole bunch of hallucinations'. You might get to see the white field on glue but I don't recommend this or ketone's.

[.broken.]

i have a similar tendency to be pre-judgmental, but i'm getting better.

 

All fairness to Patrick, so is he Much improved since he was banned. He has come back a better person for it. I welcome him with open arms, and rejoice that he is still willing to share his opinions and insights with us. He could've just disappeared after being banned, but, like a trooper, he has stayed.

 

Yours humbly,

James

 

P.S. Apologies Lama Tantrapa for the interuption to the discussion of your teachings.

Edited July 8, 2008 by .broken.

[Sahaj Nath]

All fairness to Patrick, so is he Much improved since he was banned. He has come back a better person for it. I welcome him with open arms, and rejoice that he is still willing to share his opinions and insights with us.

 

 

Agreed.

 

 

 

we now return to your regularly scheduled program.

 

[Aetherous]

Well I'm not too impressed with Patrick for hogging Lama's topic with his own stuff. Make your own topic.

[Lama Tantrapa]

All true spiritual initiations are experiential and therefore can't be taught only pointed to. The very idea of 'selling' a spiritual initiation is as ludicrous as it is disrespectful. By the way if anybody has a copy I could do with a good laugh.

 

Dear Tao Bums,

 

I appreciate your interest in Qi Dao and the lively discussion unfolding on these pages. I actually have to agree with Patrick that most attempts to initiate anyone via an audio recording prove to be ludicrous at best. That is why my album mostly consists of preliminary practices including a spontaneous meditation, standing meditation, dynamic meditation, as well as a guided Shamanic Journey. The latter can also serve as the first stage of the Qi Dao initiation that usually consists of two stages: the guided meditation that can and should be practiced for as long as it takes you to establish a reasonably strong sense of connection with the Tao, or Dream Being, as I often refer to it. The second stage of the initiation has to be experienced in person, usually at the conclusion of the basic level of Qi Dao training (this CD is a part of the Basic Qi Dao Home Study Course), which normally takes at least three months filled with doing the preliminary practices. In this way, my students living across the globe from me still can develop a decent level of basic knowledge and experience all the preliminary practices before attending a live event, where they may receive the complete initiation. Perhaps, entitling my album Qi Dao Initiation created some confusion, because it is designed to provide only the initial impetus for embarking on this incredible journey of self-realization. If you are familiar with such site as rhapsody.com, I believe you can listen to the tracks on my album, quite literally, for pennies. Give yourself an opportunity to experience something before judging it.

 

I am glad you found a way to peruse my book for free using Google book search. Unlike most of the contemporary authors, who tend to tease you by giving access to just a few pages, I made the entire text available for those of you who are sincerely interested in Qi Dao. I have nothing to hide, at least, at the basic level, which my book covers quite thoroughly. As to the question from apepch7, I believe I shared enough information about my lineage in this book. I really do not like dragging my personal history around, that is probably why I never felt inspired to memorize the names of my predecessors. Besides, there is a great difference between me and my Grandfather: while I talk and even write a lot, he was not a talkative man at all, probably due to his involvement with the KGB during the Soviet regime. He did not like to talk about himself or other people at all. I am sure he had a great many stories to tell, which I can only guess about. I continue learning from him in my dreams, so some of his stories may eventually be revealed through my practice of Dream Yoga.

 

By the way, if you are interested in Dream Yoga, you may find some basic practices in the Qi Dao Initiation album too, so have fun experimenting with them. Let me know if you need any help.

 

Aloha

 

P.S. Please do not sniff any glue or take any ketone (whatever it is) Patrick is talking about. There are much safer and more effective ways to explore the bardo states associated with near-death experiences and beyond death.

[Patrick Brown]

Thanks for the clarity Lama Tantrapa I can see where you're coming from now I therefore apologise for my past negativity. As for drugs and short cuts I certainly don't recommend them. Best of luck with the book and I hope to hear more from you on these forums.

[voidisyinyang]

OK I just speed read the book in half an hour while sitting here in full-lotus. This is an EXCELLENT book!

 

1) Most people are stuck in their upper tan tiens, creating an ego-centric competitive mindset so we need to learn to activate and synchronize the lower tan tien with the upper tan tien. Aikido teaches how to do this, for example, so that fighting does not happen since you do not react but respond by working with and transforming the negative energy.

 

2) This response is achieved by centering the body and mind -- the main energy channel projects a strong energy field along the center of the body. So it's best to directly face the "problem." Grounding means having the feet distribute the weight of the body evenly so that the main energy point of the foot, in the center, is like a suction cup with the earth's energy. Rooting is making sure that the energy of grounding is then projected through keeping the body-mind centered and synchronized with the lower and upper tan tien.

 

3) The concept of stretching actually increases body (and mind) tension by increasing the resistance of the muscles. In contrast muscle "lengthening" relies on shortening the muscles and creating a workout for the muscle. Afterwards the muscle while stretch through relaxation.

 

4) Our dreams are expressed through our muscles (which conduct electromagnetic energy) but most people are too tense to realize their dreams. This tension is overcome by centering the bones of the body since the bones do work effortlessly and are much stronger than the muscles. The tension is mainly stored in the shoulders and neck and expresses the lower emotions -- sadness, anger, fear, worry.

[Apech]

Lama,

 

I had not intended to pursue my question about your lineage but since I get a mention in your last post I would like to say this. You claim quite specifically a lineage of 27 generations going back to 1224. You also seem to link Mongol culture with Bon from Tibet which is actually culturally, ethnically and geographically distinct. I was not asking you to 'boast' but to clarify exactly what you were claiming about your lineage as I am confused about the provenance of your teachings.

 

You may well argue that this does not matter as long as Qi Dao works - but you yourself raised this issue. For someone like myself who is interested in this subject and would consider buying your books and tapes it is crucial, I believe, to have some confidence that what is being taught is authentic and is what it claims to be - if you see what I mean.

 

I put these points with all respect to you and all teachers and practitioners.

 

 

 

Apepch7

[sheng zhen]

I continue learning from him in my dreams, so some of his stories may eventually be revealed through my practice of Dream Yoga.

 

By the way, if you are interested in Dream Yoga, you may find some basic practices in the Qi Dao Initiation album too, so have fun experimenting with them. Let me know if you need any help.

Dream Yoga is very interesting! Ive been working with dream yoga, both as lucid dreaming and as it is presented at www.dreamyoga.com.

 

I also have a teacher that teaches a lot through dreams.

 

How do you practice dream yoga? Is it more like the buddhist practice or is it taoist? From another post a while ago I found that the taoist shui gong is not the same as tibetian dream yoga. What do you think, Lama Tantapa?

[Junbao]

Thank you Lama Somananda Tantrapa for stopping by this forum.

 

And thanks for your generous direction as to where we can brows through your entire book, and where to listen to the audio as well.

 

I've listened to the audio, a few tracks so far, and I really quite like it. I like the way you describe things and the philosophy behind your ideas.

One thing I can't seem to get through is your initiation track. I lay down and put it on, and I only last a few minutes past the relaxation sequence. I tried yesterday and today, in the middle of the day when I was awake and alert, and I would drift in and out, only to wake up right at the end of it.

Then I would feel very calm and relaxed for the next few hours.

 

So far I like this enough to check out the book next and see where things go.

 

Thanks!

Edited July 15, 2008 by Junbao

[Lama Tantrapa]

[KoHsuan]

Lama Tantrapa,

 

If you will some time could you please answer my questions to you in "Hello form Guam" topic please?

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showto...hello+from+guam

 

thanks

[shontonga]

All fairness to Patrick, so is he Much improved since he was banned. He has come back a better person for it. I welcome him with open arms, and rejoice that he is still willing to share his opinions and insights with us. He could've just disappeared after being banned, but, like a trooper, he has stayed.

 

Yours humbly,

James

 

P.S. Apologies Lama Tantrapa for the interuption to the discussion of your teachings.

 

Ohh, Pa trick! You got BANNED!?!

DUDE!!!

Personally I have always enjoyed your attitude! a bit heyoka!

... and admit openly to have found value in your words.

Sometimes upon further consideration, albeit!

and is being in the "white field" supposed to be a strange thing???

LOL, sometime things just get to tame!

U spice things up a bit

and have great pictures!

... Some that I know the boys love!

Welcome back you prodigal son of a gun, LOL!

 

Also apologies to You Lama but couldn't pass this up, ya know?

I enjoy the kid

Nice to meet you Lama T!

Stay well & have fun with all the mischief you may run into,

for the most part good hearts here and many who read but don't speak,

am sure they also value the information that's shared!

and would be interested in learning more.

 

Stay well!

Shon

[sheng zhen]

Thanks for your explenation on Dream Yoga!

 

This is actually the exact same principles Dr.Joseph Dillard bases his Dream Yoga on He also calls it Deep Listening because it is about learning to listen to the dream characters and what they are telling you. From their perspectives, not our normal everyday-perspective. And after listening to them they have told you what they help you with, then you spend a week (or more) identifying with them to integrate the soul qualities they are presenting to you in the dream.

 

Do you have a method of indentifying with the dream characters?

 

In Dillards Dream Yoga we do an interview with questions lined up in a specific order to get the dialogue going. And it dosent matter if you do it on dream characters from a dream or a character from waking life. Its all the same. It can also be done on emotions or whatever.

 

I find that identifying with the not-so-obvious characters, like places, rooms, walls, areas, things like that, I get a lot more surprising and helpful feedback than if I work with characters like friends, animals or other things I normally have a strong emotional indetification with.

 

The most interesting parts a dream is the Dream Consciousness, as Dillard calls it. Or "the Dream Being", as you call it. The creator of the dream. By indentifying with the Dream Consciousness you get a direct link to the formless consciousness behind the illusion of our reality, and this is of great help in meditation.

 

Do you write about your Dream Yoga in the free book? If so Ill certainly read it!

 

Its so good to hear more people working with dreams in a more dialoguing and listening way than just projecting the pre-interprated symbols on it. Is so damn limiting!