Spiritual Guides

[neo]

This is not a kunlun question I just happened to be doing my kunlun practice in a dark room with my eyes half opened, unfocused and was doing my best to let go of my thoughts and just be. Then I had the feeling that I was not alone in the room. Then I started to see the outline of what looked like a man. I only saw his upperbody and he was eye level with me. I got startled and started to back off a little not sure if i wanted to increase this vision. So my questions are: how do I know if this entity was there to help? and can i do anything before/during my practice to make sure only positive forces surround me? Extra advice?

 

thanks

 

[Yoda]

In Mediteranean magic, there's a lot about creating protection and containment and banishing... In Norse magic there's none of that... apparently the dudes dealt with weren't as fucked up.

 

I'm no expert, but I'd say go by feel is probably a good start. If you have a sense of humor about a practice then you are on the right track. If it's not funny then discontinue immediately and ring up a Jesuit.

 

A nice little intro prayer at the beginning and a dedication at the end might be nice too.

 

Your pal,

Yoda

[neo]

In Mediteranean magic, there's a lot about creating protection and containment and banishing... In Norse magic there's none of that... apparently the dudes dealt with weren't as fucked up.

 

I'm no expert, but I'd say go by feel is probably a good start. If you have a sense of humor about a practice then you are on the right track. If it's not funny then discontinue immediately and ring up a Jesuit.

 

A nice little intro prayer at the beginning and a dedication at the end might be nice too.

 

Your pal,

Yoda

thanks

 

what you say makes sense

 

it was a little too intense for me. it made my heart race a little. im only 17. i dont think im ready yet. maybe if i was in a more positive mood i would feel better about it.

[satyagraha]

thanks

 

what you say makes sense

 

it was a little too intense for me. it made my heart race a little. im only 17. i dont think im ready yet. maybe if i was in a more positive mood i would feel better about it.

I know what you mean, these things kind of freak me out as well.

[shontonga]

thanks

 

what you say makes sense

 

it was a little too intense for me. it made my heart race a little. im only 17. i dont think im ready yet. maybe if i was in a more positive mood i would feel better about it.

 

As Yoda said

have intention (he said prayer, i think) when you start.

return to it if you feel you need to,

like if you want to strengthen it,

and recall it when your done.

be thankful, to whoever you find it important to be.

When your thankful, you'll find yourself to get calm,

it's a way to come back to your self, to reconnect so to say.

I'm not into cheesy affirmations, lol

but have to admit

I do call up love & light when i start.

For me it's a shield of sorts.

Kinda like a filter!

That stuff is normal to me

but Still Freaks The Hell Out of me !

It's a continual learning experience.

People are people (um?...even the one's who might not be people?)

(my folks have tried to brainwash me that 99.9 % are good.

where's the balance with that!)

Some are Good Some, not so Great!

Use your instincts, pay attention to them.

If you don't you Will learn to, HaHaHa.

Learning is great in it's suckage.

 

I am all for saying hi.

No need to panic and be disrespectful

gives you a chance to react.

Others will not agree with that.

That's ok!

 

many ways to "deal"

but curiosity always leads me.

Who is it? What stories to share?

What to learn by you, by them?

Don't assume anyone Knows it all

your just setting your self up then

giving away your own "strength".

 

Sorry this got long fast!

 

Enjoy Neo.

 

Good to put up wall sometime

but have to remember then

to let them come down sometimes, too!

 

Stay well,

 

Shonton Ga

[mjjbecker]

Spirits like to come and watch while we practice. It can be a little surprising, especially if you happen to be doing your neigong in the nude at the time ,(hey, it was hot and I wasn't expecting company ).

 

As in all things, go with your gut feelings, rather than your emotional ones. You should have no doubts if the presence is malevolent, believe me.

 

Any problems, you teacher or senior students should be available to help you with questions. Otherwise, I'm sure some people here can chip in with some help and advice.

 

Yoda's advice regarding the prayer is good. Saying thank you never goes amiss.

[Taomeow]

In the Chinese tradition, according to Michael Saso, lay people took every precaution to avoid communicating one-on-one with spirits, even benevolent ones, and viewed any intrusion of spirits as a problem to be dealt with by professionals -- typically taoist priests trained in exorcism.

 

A Maoshan sorcerer, on the other hand (that's Maoshan Magical, not Maoshan Mystical -- different sects) will routinely work with spirits, and not necessarily just the benevolent ones -- but he will always expel all the spirits, both benevolent and evil, at the end of the ritual. There's special procedures for closing the door behind them and making sure no one escapes or sticks around. So even sorcerers who deal with spirits professionally make sure that they don't spill over into everyday life.

 

In classical feng shui, certain things are done a certain way toward the same goal -- i.e. arranged just so that entities from other, non-human realms don't feel welcome. There's a belief, e.g., that evil spirits travel in a straight line -- which is why there's never a straight-line walkway leading to a traditional home, and usually an L-turn to the entrance door designed to "lose" any sha' spirits that might have been following you.

 

Personally, I would abandon any practice that attracts any spirits unless I've specifically invited them.

[sheng zhen]

This is not a kunlun question I just happened to be doing my kunlun practice in a dark room with my eyes half opened, unfocused and was doing my best to let go of my thoughts and just be. Then I had the feeling that I was not alone in the room. Then I started to see the outline of what looked like a man. I only saw his upperbody and he was eye level with me. I got startled and started to back off a little not sure if i wanted to increase this vision. So my questions are: how do I know if this entity was there to help? and can i do anything before/during my practice to make sure only positive forces surround me? Extra advice?

 

thanks

 

I got really startled the first time I talked to my guide. I didnt expect it to be such a clear communication and I got really frightened when I clearly heart his voice in my head. And it forced me to change my whole world view.

 

But after a while you get used to it. There are guides everywhere, guides for any level of consciousness, all around us. Its just a litt startling the first times we experience that level of reality. To me, now, Its just like any other conversation, only it goes parallel to my regular conversations

 

But one tip to make shure that the ones you meet are there to help, is to keep your heart and intensions pure. Be hounest with your self, wish the best for your self and others, be sincere and true. And FEEL safe, the more safe you feel, the more you will attract guides that keep you safe Before you go into meditation, enter that room in your self where you feel safe and looked after.

 

If you compare the numbers of "positive"(if we can use such dualistic thinking) guides to the number of negative ones, the negative ones are outnumberd by the millions. There is not much to be afraid of really, other than our own fear, hahaha.

[seadog]

I agree with Taomeow. I would never tolerate any unsolicitated vistors.Given bad expriences in the past with uninvited guests.

[gendao]

In ThetaHealing, we're taught to send any spirits to God's Light first before possibly communicating with them.

 

I believe the reason for this is that as soon as you open a line of communication with them, you are essentially opening your space to them. And if they are malevolent, they could then enter and mess some stuff up in you.

 

I mean, probably nothing that can't be fixed, but as a safety precaution, I would rather stay on the safe side and avoid any such hassles.

 

That said, I guess you wouldn't have to do this with your guides or angels, etc.

 

And I think most malevolent spirits would give you some uneasy feeling, by contrast. But, I don't really know. I have a friend who subconsciously invited some entity attacks, but I haven't directly dealt with such myself. As usually, there is something inside you that attracts these suckers, I don't think they just attack random people. And I prefer to stick with all the helpful, benevolent ones instead.

Edited June 23, 2008 by vortex

[mjjbecker]

I've been present when John Chang-and others-have summoned spirits. Even high level masters can't be sure 'who' will turn up.

 

If you are going to summon and 'play' with spirits, you'd better be in a tradition that knows what the hell it is doing in that regard. Energy work will make you stand out like a beacon to spirits.

 

Said it before, but it is worth repeating. A GOOD teacher is VERY important.

 

Might add, I don't practice in darkened rooms...

[neo]

 

Might add, I don't practice in darkened rooms...

 

why's that?

[satyagraha]

Hey neo, if you have been to a seminar, it might be wise to post this on the kunlun forum... it'll probably been seen and answered to your satisfaction.

[三江源]

.

Edited April 20, 2015 by 三江源

[neo]

Hey neo, if you have been to a seminar, it might be wise to post this on the kunlun forum... it'll probably been seen and answered to your satisfaction.

i havent made it to one yet. these questions are open to anyone practicing any form of meditation

[Yoda]

Neo,

 

There's the whole argument that angels can actually be devils in disguise and the other perspective that even devils are angels in disguise. Some people say that all beings, even strange entities like the artist again known as Prince, are essentially manifestations of your own mind.

 

To add to Satyagraha's thought, if you want a Kunlun perspective and haven't been to a seminar just PM Mantra and he might be helpful.

 

Yoda

[Taomeow]

What they want depends on who they are, just like with people. Most Chinese spirits are hungry ghosts who want, well, attention. Many are cold and want energy. None are considered manifestations of your own mind except for the ones that are, i.e. your subtle bodies, your double, etc.. Except for the past one hundred years, no one ever doubted their existence quite independent of what we think of them or of anything else. I see no reason to fall for the latest cultural fad that consists in denying the existence of spirits -- but then, I'm seldom impressed by anything at all thought up in the past one hundred years, the most murderous in human history. Based on the deeds, I don't trust the words, put it this way.

 

Some spirits are vengeful and hold a grudge -- these are usually your neglected ancestors, unless you did something to antagonize any unrelated ones. The latter hope to be offered food and drink when you eat. These can be invited to live in your home (an ancestors' altar is set up for the purpose) provided you don't forget to feed them. Most people who lived throughout civilized history have been hungry, physically hungry and/or emotionally unfulfilled, that's why most spirits are hungry.

 

Spirits accept bribes, unless they are after revenge, and will come or go on request if offered money (you have to burn it to turn it into spirit money). Most people who lived on earth in civilized times have been poor, that's why most spirits still want money.

[Sahaj Nath]

This is not a kunlun question I just happened to be doing my kunlun practice in a dark room with my eyes half opened, unfocused and was doing my best to let go of my thoughts and just be. Then I had the feeling that I was not alone in the room. Then I started to see the outline of what looked like a man. I only saw his upperbody and he was eye level with me. I got startled and started to back off a little not sure if i wanted to increase this vision. So my questions are: how do I know if this entity was there to help? and can i do anything before/during my practice to make sure only positive forces surround me? Extra advice?

 

thanks

 

 

 

greetings, neo.

 

we all carry trauma in our nervous system, and sometimes clearing out that baggage requires going through the discomfort of being startled or frightened. sometimes phenomenon like you experienced is triggered precisely to elicit the fight or flight response that you felt.

 

i agree with taomeow about not denying the existence of spirits, but i want to temper that by saying don't be so quick to draw conclusions about what you experienced. indeed you are asking questions because you realize some of what you don't know about that event, but there is still much that you are presuming.

 

how do you know if the entity was there to help? well, let's back up and ask first, how do you know that is was, in fact, an entity? the spirit world is far more complex and nuanced than most people understand, and so is our own being. so jumping to the conclusion that it was either a spirit guide (which can itself be a GROSS oversimplification of an advanced being) or some other visitor is presumptuous.

 

what do you want out of your practice? what are you looking for? and how important is it to you? i think these are important questions, especially given that you're 17. you could be a real spiritual seeker, or someone who just wants to dabble and play around with some cool spiritual stuff, or someone who's more focused on evolving the body with energy practices, or something else entirely. any answer is fine so long as it's honest, but i think knowing where you are impacts how best to proceed as such phenomena begin to arise in your practice.

 

spiritual practice is not, and was never meant to be, a never ending vacation. sometimes there is pain to be reckoned with. sometimes fear. sometimes delusion. and a host of other things.

 

i can offer many suggestion, as can many others in this forum. but it really depends on where you really are and what you're looking for out of your practice.

 

i wouldn't be so quick to banish or protect or do any of that stuff. it's all presumptuous right now. courage and trust are built through trial, and the psyche can be a tricky thing. so don't be too quick to deny yourself an opportunity to grow.

 

i guess that's about all i can say without knowing more about you.

[neo]

greetings, neo.

 

we all carry trauma in our nervous system, and sometimes clearing out that baggage requires going through the discomfort of being startled or frightened. sometimes phenomenon like you experienced is triggered precisely to elicit the fight or flight response that you felt.

 

i agree with taomeow about not denying the existence of spirits, but i want to temper that by saying don't be so quick to draw conclusions about what you experienced. indeed you are asking questions because you realize some of what you don't know about that event, but there is still much that you are presuming.

 

how do you know if the entity was there to help? well, let's back up and ask first, how do you know that is was, in fact, an entity? the spirit world is far more complex and nuanced than most people understand, and so is our own being. so jumping to the conclusion that it was either a spirit guide (which can itself be a GROSS oversimplification of an advanced being) or some other visitor is presumptuous.

 

what do you want out of your practice? what are you looking for? and how important is it to you? i think these are important questions, especially given that you're 17. you could be a real spiritual seeker, or someone who just wants to dabble and play around with some cool spiritual stuff, or someone who's more focused on evolving the body with energy practices, or something else entirely. any answer is fine so long as it's honest, but i think knowing where you are impacts how best to proceed as such phenomena begin to arise in your practice.

 

spiritual practice is not, and was never meant to be, a never ending vacation. sometimes there is pain to be reckoned with. sometimes fear. sometimes delusion. and a host of other things.

 

i can offer many suggestion, as can many others in this forum. but it really depends on where you really are and what you're looking for out of your practice.

 

i wouldn't be so quick to banish or protect or do any of that stuff. it's all presumptuous right now. courage and trust are built through trial, and the psyche can be a tricky thing. so don't be too quick to deny yourself an opportunity to grow.

 

i guess that's about all i can say without knowing more about you.

thanks very much Hundun, you put some things into perspective. i guess im looking to improve my life and the lives of those around me. And also find peace within so that I can help others achieve the same feeling. understanding the mysteries of the universe wouldnt be too bad either, haha

[三江源]

.

Edited July 23, 2014 by cat

[Xienkula1]

 

 

But this particular pheneomen, of feeling a lot of visitors are present, is puzzling to me. Why are they loading in on the kunlun practise.., I dont get it.

 

Are they just coming to say hello, and if so, who are they, and are they always here, and usually I'm not aware?

 

 

Are you seeing spirits loading on Kunlun? I did too. There is a mention in a certain practice section about Kulun Masters coming and teaching the higher teachings of red phoenix. Maybe they come to help teach and help the student. So it seems the kunlun masters also know the phoenix masters.

 

Edit: but the practice does not work directly with spirits.

Edited June 23, 2008 by Xienkula1

[Wun Yuen Gong]

Hi Guys,

 

I want to share with you something that happened 2 nights ago when i tried Kunlun as i wwas banned i thought i better try this myself and then make a decision on the art and max's teaching. This is not a put down just sharing my experience and hoping to get some help!!!

 

So here goes!!

 

KL Lvl1 I sat lifted the heels off the ground no more then 3 mins i was getting trembling, then body jerking and shaking which i thought wow ok this is different to my arts which is fine energy vibrating with some jerking as it corrects my pathways. But around 5-8 mins i felt as if something or things was trying to get inside me and i felt uneasy! The situation got worst and i was having a bad time i dont know if these spirits or whatever was or felt like attacking was pissed off cause i said that about Max i do not know.

 

Anyway i dont know what to think of it if it is that powerful and my body was getting purified i hope so but if it was just spirits attacking me i wont be doing it again.

 

The weirdiest thing is after i did a cool down i ran to the toilet and i vomited some weird sh!t up there was no food no oder!! I know my past Sifu is protecting me and i was ordained as a Taoist (initated) into my sect back in 1992 and believe that also was rejecting what was trying to get in? Well that is what it felt like, a firewall!

 

I was hoping to really get enjoyment from Kunlun like alot gets but mine was out of control and wasnt a good experience.

 

any comments, mantra what do you think of this?.

 

WYG

[Sahaj Nath]

WYG,

 

 

i think you should make this a separate thread. you may get some interesting responses. not everyone is going to click on this thread, so your chances of getting more responses are better if you post it as its own discussion topic.

 

give a cool title, too!

 

[mjjbecker]

why's that?

 

Spirits prefer dark places, even powerful ones. On a couple of occasions that I witnessed John Chang summon spirits he either put out the lights in the room or relocated to a darkened place.

 

Lots of good points have been made here. You are indeed embarking on an interesting journey. Having some guidance and help from a teacher is very very important. Hundun makes some very good points. Energy work brings up a lot of stuff. Its certainly not always fun.

 

WYG, hard to say what happened to you. I do know that mixing different practices can be unwise simply because of the different kinds of energies and different ways to cultivate them. I understand Max has cautioned against mixing Kunlun with other practices.

 

John Chang once advised a prospective student not to practice his method for several months so that the chi from the students previous practices could run down and leave the body. The kind of chi they had previously cultivated was different and therefore not compatible with the stuff he was now learning. It was causing some physical discomfort as a result. I can't say for sure, but maybe this was what you experienced.

[shontonga]

TaoMeow, thankyou for your answer. I have had meetings with various ancestors before, and have worked to help a lot of my kinsmen who suffered during the famines in Ireland. I understand them coming to me.That feels natural to me.

 

I woke up once to find the spirit of Prester John checking me out. He wanted to know if I would do shamanic work of a sensitive nature, which I was reluctant to do.

 

I'm accustomed, in hotel rooms, to meet spirits who are confused. I generally enter a state of love and suggest they move on to whatever next stage is right for them, and to stop hanging around.

 

I have been visited by spirits on a one to basis, that are affiliated with the shaolin lineage.

 

But this particular pheneomen, of feeling a lot of visitors are present, is puzzling to me. Why are they loading in on the kunlun practise.., I dont get it.

 

Are they just coming to say hello, and if so, who are they, and are they always here, and usually I'm not aware?

 

I dont know if these questions are rhetorical or not, TaoMeow, certainly I am puzzling over it.

 

Hey Cat

Sounds like you've been doing this for awhile, hmm?

 

Ya know how when you settle yourself,

when your calm and more open,

You (might?) experiance it more?

For some the sight may shift

(Hence the darker rooms...can see energy and All better)

feelings deepen and your more aware.

 

Does Kunlun have that kind of effect on you?

 

I don't know about kunlun

but that's not such a strange thing for folks who do that work.

Sounds like your letting down your own walls/barriers a bit.

There is always opportunity to do that work

and because of your experiences in your past

you may also be more open to it.

 

Hundun gave some very sound advise

or posed some great questions that are always good for all to remember ~

"what do you want out of your practice? what are you looking for? and how important is it to you?"

Also to be honest with Yourself.

very important that.

 

Can be trickier than it sounds!

 

What do you think, Cat?

 

Stay well!

 

Shon