Small Heavenly Orbit

[Satyalok]

Edward,

 

Are you able to share any details of how to go about filling the dantian while sitting in lotus? I'm pretty sure it would take much longer without Wang Liping's DAIGONG, but there would be many who could benefit from this knowledge.

 

I'll understand if you took some "super secret, burn your eyes out" oath and cannot share. That seems to be common these days

 

Cheers,

Satyalok

[mjjbecker]

 

I'll understand if you took some "super secret, burn your eyes out" oath and cannot share. That seems to be common these days

 

Cheers,

Satyalok

 

 

Seated meditation-take your pick-will pretty much do the trick for filling the dantien, be it Zen, Mo Pai or whatever, (yes, Zen monks fill their dantien with qi). Quieting the mind is important.

 

Yes, the importance and efficiency of the lotus position is well recognised among teachers of neigong. However, let me be clear, YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE ABLE TO SIT IN THE FULL LOTUS POSITION TO FILL YOUR DANTIEN.

 

Is it quicker? Yes. Do you have to be able to do it? No. I know that for a fact

 

In fact, you can fill your dantien without ever using seated meditation. I also know this for a fact.

 

On the matter of sexual restraint, complete abstinence is not required with training at this level. Some restraint is. Depending upon the school, there can be different periods of celibacy required. Depends on the level of your training also.

 

In summation, if you can't do full lotus, it won't stop you from making progress, but it may slow it down. DON'T FORCE IT AND DAMAGE YOUR JOINTS!

 

Life is meant to have some enjoyment. Sex is part of that. It is part of a loving relationship. Its perfectly natural. If you want to abstain, fine, do what is right for you. However, if that is not your way, go and make love and don't feel in the least bit guilty about it.

 

Remember, Taoists are supposed to follow nature. Be happy.

[Vajrasattva]

 

Seated meditation-take your pick-will pretty much do the trick for filling the dantien, be it Zen, Mo Pai or whatever, (yes, Zen monks fill their dantien with qi). Quieting the mind is important.

 

Yes, the importance and efficiency of the lotus position is well recognised among teachers of neigong. However, let me be clear, YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE ABLE TO SIT IN THE FULL LOTUS POSITION TO FILL YOUR DANTIEN.

 

EXACTLY! I can fill me dan tien standing, walking, sleeping, sitting, having sex, resting, training martial arts, praying etc.....

 

Its not a mystery once you know.

 

Is it quicker? Yes. Do you have to be able to do it? No. I know that for a fact

 

In fact, you can fill your dantien without ever using seated meditation. I also know this for a fact.

 

On the matter of sexual restraint, complete abstinence is not required with training at this level. Some restraint is. Depending upon the school, there can be different periods of celibacy required. Depends on the level of your training also.

 

In summation, if you can't do full lotus, it won't stop you from making progress, but it may slow it down. DON'T FORCE IT AND DAMAGE YOUR JOINTS!

 

Exactly infact its more damaging to the actuall physicaly body than people realize. for certain levels of spiritual integration with the Earth you need the sole chakras on the earth. Look at the pictures of the egyptian gods, Mayan, Aztec Gods the tibetan gods etc.....Where is the lotus pose? Yes it represents something about self "independence" But its JUST and asana. There are hundreds of them that actually do more for you once you know.

 

Now this is to Drew:

 

You are a good kid but sitting around and farting around in lotus pose all day really wont get you anywhere. but make you more "flighty". I have explained why many times on this forum and care not to get into it. You want to know or think you know come pay me a visit I humbly will show you otherwise. Its not to be a douchebag but experience can go a long way. If you are still a broke ass sitting in lotus poses for years your Guru or teacher has done nothing for you. Being spiritual is about integration with this world and its beings etc.

Exchanging pineal love pump sauce with girls at Mcdonalds while you eat the dollar menu is not really doing much for you as a human being. Sorry but true.

 

 

Life is meant to have some enjoyment. Sex is part of that. It is part of a loving relationship. Its perfectly natural. If you want to abstain, fine, do what is right for you. However, if that is not your way, go and make love and don't feel in the least bit guilty about it.

 

Remember, Taoists are supposed to follow nature. Be happy.

 

Exactly!

 

Its about following Nature.

 

Go back to simplicity and common sense.

The most advanced yogic or taoist or Ilmu Batin Asana or Posture is the fetal position.

 

God Bless

Peace

 

Santiago

[styrofoamdog]

I agree with Wang Liping. I don't think that full lotus is magic, but I do think it is probably the best way to sit for most meditation. It just blocks off the legs the most, so it helps to pool qi into the dan tian (the furnace), and directs circulation elsewhere. For internal alchemy and especially building the foundation, I think it's good because otherwise qi will just be diverted into the legs.

[salaam123]

[voidisyinyang]

That's why the Bushmen females INSIST that males learn how to become healers -- it's based on STAYING POWER -- so that after 5 climaxes the heart chakra starts to open up to create REAL love. Then after the heart chakra builds up even more it creates electromagnetic fields which finally open up the pineal gland. The male energy is electromagnetic -- so for the normal male who isn't a healer the electromagnetic energy just drains down into the electrochemical energy and then turns into fluid, without any transformation of the lower emotions (lust, anger, fear, sadness, worry). The normal modern male is a Number 2 or Number 1 person, based on Gurdjieff's system -- the normal modern male has their consciousness controlled by the lower emotions -- the consciousness is STORED in the electrochemical energy points, with each organ the source for each emotion. Only AFTER the sex energy is stored up, cleansed and purified can the pineal gland be opened up -- that's the secret connection between sex and love which is cut off due to the left-brain dominance of modern males. The sex energy is repressed subconsciously and then projected without control as anger, fear, sadness, worry. If there is severe repression due to strong oppression and it's during a time when a person's sex energy is strong then you get poltergeists -- telekinesis. Read Nandor Fodor's Mind over Space and his book "Between two Worlds" and then D. Scott Rogo's follow-up masterpiece: Miracles.

[styrofoamdog]

That's why the Bushmen females INSIST that males learn how to become healers -- it's based on STAYING POWER -- so that after 5 climaxes the heart chakra starts to open up to create REAL love. Then after the heart chakra builds up even more it creates electromagnetic fields which finally open up the pineal gland. The male energy is electromagnetic -- so for the normal male who isn't a healer the electromagnetic energy just drains down into the electrochemical energy and then turns into fluid, without any transformation of the lower emotions (lust, anger, fear, sadness, worry). The normal modern male is a Number 2 or Number 1 person, based on Gurdjieff's system -- the normal modern male has their consciousness controlled by the lower emotions -- the consciousness is STORED in the electrochemical energy points, with each organ the source for each emotion. Only AFTER the sex energy is stored up, cleansed and purified can the pineal gland be opened up -- that's the secret connection between sex and love which is cut off due to the left-brain dominance of modern males. The sex energy is repressed subconsciously and then projected without control as anger, fear, sadness, worry. If there is severe repression due to strong oppression and it's during a time when a person's sex energy is strong then you get poltergeists -- telekinesis. Read Nandor Fodor's Mind over Space and his book "Between two Worlds" and then D. Scott Rogo's follow-up masterpiece: Miracles.

This is what I didn't want the thread to turn into. Why do we have to throw in Gurdjieff, "O at a D's", bushmen, pineal love energy, etc.? I thought this was about Wang Liping and microcosmic circulation....

[mantis]

i think that if you can sit in full lotus, you should. i don't find it particularly damaging if done correctly, i don't even stretch and i can sit in it for about an hour accumulated time (20 mins/3 times a day) and the only thing i get is a very minor feeling in my left knee, which was probably from me doing it wrong the first few times.

 

every time i sit i feel it in my hips as if they are opening, how it should be, not on your knees.

 

i don't meditate in it by the way, i removed the back of my chair and the arms so i can sit in it while i'm at the computer (which is where i spend most of my time these days). this also has the double benefit of forcing me to sit upright -> good posture.

[Satyalok]

There seems to be quite a bit going on at these Wang Liping seminars beyond the simple posture of the full lotus, and that's what I'm really curious about. Drawing energy from celestial bodies, environment...and the experience of the channel energy flowing automatically.

 

I feel massive amounts of energy flowing from my awakened kundalini (and a whole host of other amazing sensations), and sit in siddhasana as directed by shakti. I don't feel any "specific" SHO flows the way the blog describes (that flow in ren and du channels). I can LEAD the energy in the orbit, but that's not the same thing. I also haven't read too many accounts of traditional Healing Tao, or other qigongs where this happens in a short amount of time. I read an article from a prominent Bagua martial artist in Beijing who said this experience happened by walking the circle several hours a day for 2-3 years (with some degree of sexual control).

 

My main interest is the SHO's reported ability to heal the body of illness and chronic pain (the latter of which I have not been able to shake no matter what).

 

Sincerely,

Satyalok

[mjjbecker]

That's why the Bushmen females INSIST that males learn how to become healers -- it's based on STAYING POWER -- so that after 5 climaxes the heart chakra starts to open up to create REAL love. Then after the heart chakra builds up even more it creates electromagnetic fields which finally open up the pineal gland. The male energy is electromagnetic -- so for the normal male who isn't a healer the electromagnetic energy just drains down into the electrochemical energy and then turns into fluid, without any transformation of the lower emotions (lust, anger, fear, sadness, worry). The normal modern male is a Number 2 or Number 1 person, based on Gurdjieff's system -- the normal modern male has their consciousness controlled by the lower emotions -- the consciousness is STORED in the electrochemical energy points, with each organ the source for each emotion. Only AFTER the sex energy is stored up, cleansed and purified can the pineal gland be opened up -- that's the secret connection between sex and love which is cut off due to the left-brain dominance of modern males. The sex energy is repressed subconsciously and then projected without control as anger, fear, sadness, worry. If there is severe repression due to strong oppression and it's during a time when a person's sex energy is strong then you get poltergeists -- telekinesis. Read Nandor Fodor's Mind over Space and his book "Between two Worlds" and then D. Scott Rogo's follow-up masterpiece: Miracles.

 

I suggest for your own good you get your head out of your books and go back to finish what you started with your teacher. You are clearly an intelligent person, but your analysis here is off. You don't have enough pieces of the jigsaw puzzle and you selectively choose the information to back your own bias and opinion, rather than look at things with an open mind. Edward De Bono comments on exactly this problem with some intelligent people. They let their arrogance and intelligence blind their judgement.

 

Facts are this. You did some training in Spring Forest Qi Gong and Chun Yi Lin opened a point on you. You haven't finished his system nor are you qualified to teach his method. By your own admission you backed away from the training when the energy got too intense. I strongly suggest you go and finish what you started. Until then, you aren't 'qualified' even in his method.

 

You talk of diet problems and your banjo impersonating vagus nerve. Well, John Chang and my teacher eat what they want and don't have such issues or concerns like those you mention. So, perhaps you might have a problem here? I am not disputing the fundamental importance of a good diet-I fully agree with that. By doing qigong your body should be better able to deal with what you eat, not make you more susceptible to bacteria and the like.

 

There are different kinds of qi and your understanding and knowledge of this is really quite limited. Yet, you keep posting what qi is and isn't. Let me be blunt. You don't know enough to give a qualified opinion on this. What you are giving is simply your opinion. Fact is what you say does not tally with John Chang's opinions, nor my own teachers. Both of these men have combined yin and yang in their dantien and represent methods with hundreds of years of knowledge and wisdom. Who am I to believe? Them or you? No contest. Once again, get your head out of your books and get back to your teacher.

 

People are attracted to qi. If a person has qi in their belly then that will get noticed by others. If someone has qi in their belly and is horny, that will certainly get the attention of the ladies. So you sit in McDonald's and get noticed. One of my brothers when he filled his belly with qi, started having ex-girlfriends call him up, women he hadn't seen or talked to in some time. Can you do that? I know its a bit of a personal question...but...have you even lost your virginity yet? You make a lot of comments related to the area of sex, yet I wonder if you've had much-or any-experience in this area.

 

You know, the reason you are getting this attention is because YOU are projecting sexual desire out at people. Yes, its YOU. YOU are the horny pervert my friend, the little sex magnet causing all the furore. I would suggest getting laid would do you the power of good. If you find the idea repugnant, then maybe you need some counselling. All this talk of perverts...my friend...stop being so damn judgemental of others and show a bit of compassion. Get off the pedestal you have placed yourself on.

 

On sexual desire, filling the dantien with qi will magnify this. It is unavoidable. It is part of the process. All your talk of sex fluids, sublimation, magnetic this and that and the rest is piffle and balderdash. I don't give a monkey's chuff what you read. When your sources can do what the likes of John Chang and my teacher can, I will listen to them. Fact is, I'll take the explanation of John Chang and my teacher over what is out there in the published page. No matter what you think, much of it is theory or just plain wrong. The people writing about this stuff don't have the EXPERIENCE of what they are describing. You disagree, (and I realise there may be a few howls of outrage over this observation), but believe me you won't find the Mo Pai manual out there in print, or anything close. And even if you did, the knowledge would not be accessible without the lineage teacher to guide your through it. There is a reason why I keep harping on, 'find a teacher'. Tradition and a continuous lineage is SO important for this stuff.

 

You sit around in lotus all day, and do your 'O's at a D'. Well, in the time I spent around John Chang, he certainly didn't do this. It sure as hell wasn't the way he went about healing people. The same goes for my teacher. I've spent time around people who heal final stage cancer, serious illnesses both physical and mental. They don't spend their time sitting around in lotus all day and they have never mentioned 'O's at a D' as being their method of healing or helping anyone either...

 

No one here is saying lotus position is not important or significant. What seems to be getting lost in all of this word blizzard is that it is PART of the jigsaw, not the whole puzzle. You talk of your teacher and Wang Li Ping and that they give much credit and importance to the lotus position. Yes, they do, but it IS NOT THE ONLY THING THEY TEACH. There is more, different exercises and such like. ALL of it is important, not just the part that gives you your jollies my friend. Sitting around all day is easy. Get off your ass and do some of the hard work as well, sweat a bit, sweat a lot. Sublimate your emotions? Ha! Start doing some of the work that will GET THEM OUT of you, not just leave them sitting in the dantien. Doing what you are isn't working out your karma my friend.

 

Third eye and all that. You think you're clever with your 'tricks'. My gong fu brother can see peoples karma from their past lives and their future. My teacher can see different places and observe what is happening there. These are just examples. Me, my attainment is fairly minor. I've started to 'know' different things before they happen. Its a little amusing, but it just happens. I can 'light up' different points on my body by placing my attention there. I can project qi out of my laogong points, and others. My 'attainment' is fairly low key. I know this and so I am getting on with my training. I make this point so you might understand-YOU HAVE A LONG, LONG WAY TO GO YET.

 

In conclusion, your teacher, Chun Yi Lin, seemed to be of the opinion you have some potential. He might very well be right. It would be a damn shame for you to waste it by just sitting around and wasting your life like you seem to be doing now. All your excuses of being hard up, the training isn't easy to access...Jesus H. Christ, I nearly fell off my chair when I read that. He's moved a few miles away and you're both in the same damn city!!! I've travelled thousands of miles, spent years and years looking. As for money, my name doesn't start with John D. either. Quit making excuses and admit you are putting it off, maybe even scared. It's fine to be scared. It's something to be worked through though, not avoided.

 

Go forth, be all you can be, (cue Tony Robbins bleached teeth smile and pass me a toupe while you're at it). At the very least, stop poncing off your parents, get a life, a proper job, stop making excuses and quit the 'O's at a D' before some gangbanger puts a 9mm slug where your 'love bud' used to be.

 

Best,

 

Mike

 

Man, I have shit loads of work to be getting on with...

[mjjbecker]

There seems to be quite a bit going on at these Wang Liping seminars beyond the simple posture of the full lotus, and that's what I'm really curious about. Drawing energy from celestial bodies, environment...and the experience of the channel energy flowing automatically.

 

I feel massive amounts of energy flowing from my awakened kundalini (and a whole host of other amazing sensations), and sit in siddhasana as directed by shakti. I don't feel any "specific" SHO flows the way the blog describes (that flow in ren and du channels). I can LEAD the energy in the orbit, but that's not the same thing. I also haven't read too many accounts of traditional Healing Tao, or other qigongs where this happens in a short amount of time. I read an article from a prominent Bagua martial artist in Beijing who said this experience happened by walking the circle several hours a day for 2-3 years (with some degree of sexual control).

 

My main interest is the SHO's reported ability to heal the body of illness and chronic pain (the latter of which I have not been able to shake no matter what).

 

Sincerely,

Satyalok

 

I read the same article. Complete celibacy was prescribed if you wanted to follow this bagua teachers route. There are quicker and easier ways to get the neigong working.

 

For your problems with the kundalini, I suggest you give Santiago a call and see if he might be able to help. He seems to have some experience in this area.

 

Best,

 

Mike

[mantis]

for the mo pai do they encourage celibacy/retention?

[mjjbecker]

for the mo pai do they encourage celibacy/retention?

 

Well, John Chang has children and grandchildren...

[mjjbecker]

I'm not just side stepping the question here.

 

There is the 'big picture' to consider.

 

To follow 'the way', at least as I understand it, is for each person to do what is right for them. We each have things to work out, karma from this life and other lives. That is HUGELY important.

 

For one person in a school, it might be celibacy is the right path for them. For another, wife, children, family might be. Consider John Chang has a wife and family, but his teacher did not. Consider Wang Li Ping got married and had a son, but there is no mention of his teachers doing the same. Maybe they did, but it isn't mentioned in the book and that is not the impression the reader gets.

 

Something I find DISTURBING is the 'one size fits all' mentality that can sometimes come across, even with good intentioned advice. Not everything is right for everyone, even within the same school. That is why good teachers don't teach all students the same way, or the same things.

 

When you are looking for an answer to a question, then look to your heart. There you will find the best answer for YOU. Not the head, the heart.

 

As always, I repeat, get a teacher, a guide. The right one, the one your heart leads you to.

 

So, first consider how to listen to your heart. Then decide what is right for YOU. Whether Wang Li Ping, John Chang or anyone else is celibate matters not one jot.

[Satyalok]

I read the same article. Complete celibacy was prescribed if you wanted to follow this bagua teachers route. There are quicker and easier ways to get the neigong working.

 

For your problems with the kundalini, I suggest you give Santiago a call and see if he might be able to help. He seems to have some experience in this area.

 

Best,

 

Mike

 

Thanks, no problem with my kundalini....I've had precious few disturbances regarding that, the odd sleepless night here and there (when bliss runs deep). My point is mainly that kundalini has not "cured" my physical issues...hence my search for curative practices. I've done my fair share of taiji, bagua, and qigong to no avail...plus acupuncture, chiropractics, and western medicine. I need HIGH level healing.

 

Sincerely,

Satyalok

[Vajrasattva]

Thanks, no problem with my kundalini....I've had precious few disturbances regarding that, the odd sleepless night here and there (when bliss runs deep). My point is mainly that kundalini has not "cured" my physical issues...hence my search for curative practices. I've done my fair share of taiji, bagua, and qigong to no avail...plus acupuncture, chiropractics, and western medicine. I need HIGH level healing.

 

Sincerely,

Satyalok

 

Satya

Your Kundalini should be healing you. Otherwise there is an imbalance.

 

Santiago

[Kronos]

QUOTE(mantis @ Jul 3 2008, 04:46 PM) *

 

for the mo pai do they encourage celibacy/retention?

 

 

Well, John Chang has children and grandchildren...

 

Mr. Chang says that an orgasm closes the door (chi hai) to the dantien. You should not practise after having sex. The pressure could hurt your dantien.

Edited July 4, 2008 by Kronos

[sheng zhen]

The blog mentioned that the government used Wng LiPing to win a sports event: http://longmenpai.blogspot.com/2008/06/199...eat-path-4.html

Did they win??

[Satyalok]

Satya

Your Kundalini should be healing you. Otherwise there is an imbalance.

 

Santiago

 

I've had the physical problems long before kundalini, so I know at least that an imbalanced kundalini is not the cause. I have no symptoms of kundalini syndrome either.

 

I have never seen any scriptural or otherwise reference to kundalini healing you first and foremost. Maybe something you've done with your own efforts has been successful, I don't know. Who can know the depth of karma that is behind our afflictions? I think you are quick to judge the situation.

 

Sincerely,

Satyalok

[Vajrasattva]

I've had the physical problems long before kundalini, so I know at least that an imbalanced kundalini is not the cause. I have no symptoms of kundalini syndrome either.

 

I have never seen any scriptural or otherwise reference to kundalini healing you first and foremost. Maybe something you've done with your own efforts has been successful, I don't know. Who can know the depth of karma that is behind our afflictions? I think you are quick to judge the situation.

 

Sincerely,

Satyalok

 

Kundalini is Shakti Shakti is mother why would your mother hurt you?

 

There is definetly a block that prevents you from thinking your shakti can heal you.

 

That is why you say it doesn't.

 

I am just going off of what I felt from you in your posts.

 

Somewhere in your energy structure there is something that "seperates" the problem for you and doesn't allow the root cause to be healed.

 

Peace & I wish you the best.

 

Santiago

[Satyalok]

Kundalini is Shakti Shakti is mother why would your mother hurt you?

 

There is definetly a block that prevents you from thinking your shakti can heal you.

 

That is why you say it doesn't.

 

I am just going off of what I felt from you in your posts.

 

Somewhere in your energy structure there is something that "seperates" the problem for you and doesn't allow the root cause to be healed.

 

Peace & I wish you the best.

 

Santiago

 

Hey, I never said anything about Shakti hurting me

 

I am open to being healed at EVERY moment, and I do believe in the possibility...I am merely saying it has not been my "experience" so far. That's why I am researching and making efforts to that end. Shakti has done many things for me on an emotional/spiritual level, the physical body does not appear to be number 1 priority for her. I'm sure there is an imbalance in me somewhere, but I definitely do not blame the Goddess for that, it is my own karma. To restate what I've said before, my entire sadhana is nothing more than surrender to Shakti, to remove my ego from the process. I do not tell her "You must heal xyz first, do not bother with what you are doing now!" Many inexplicable things happen to me which I cannot fathom.

 

If you have some concrete advice, things you think that will help me (conjecture doesn't)...I am all ears!

 

Sincerely,

Satyalok

[Yoda]

Drew,

 

If you can show me photos of Bushmen in full lotus, I'll be a believer. I don't care if you don't make much money, you'll always be my hero.

 

Your pal,

Yoda

 

PS you and Witch need to do lunch... that would be epic!!!

[Guest allan]

[lino]

Spectrum -- like Santiago, you admit not being able to sit in full-lotus with your ankles on your thighs?

 

lotus or no lotus, I have already verified Santiago's abilities.

[Spectrum]

lotus or no lotus...

 

Whats the criteria for being a taobum huckleberry?

Edited July 4, 2008 by Spectrum