women must learn to redirect their orgams too

[Mal]

Patience is my special skill

 

I guess the good thing is that we see the potential and do our best to manifest it in the current relationship, rather than immediately giving up and looking elsewhere. Sex is not the primary factor in my relationship, there are a lots of other ways for us to interact, nurture and love each other.

 

I guess its natural that we would want to feel the fullest expression of love that we can. Be that via the search for a special partner or by growing together with the one you are with.

[King Kabalabhati]

Patience is good.. I would have been ready to continue our unsatisfying union for years still.. Though I would rebel against our low sexual activity from time to time.. But she awoke to a sudden realisation that she would HAVE to open up sexually to reach her full spiritual potential. The funny thing is, usually women are considered to attach emotionally to their partner, but in our break-up it was me who suffered. She hasn't shown anything but relief. It hasn't helped me at all...

 

Well, now I feel stronger and don't think I'll ever attach to a girl as vulnerably as I did. It was because of me not feeling whole as myself so I needed her to fill my void. A bad bad ground for a relationship, it seems.

 

That's why it's good if you can put "God above everything", as it's said in a reggae song.

 

 

 

 

Patience is my special skill

 

I guess the good thing is that we see the potential and do our best to manifest it in the current relationship, rather than immediately giving up and looking elsewhere. Sex is not the primary factor in my relationship, there are a lots of other ways for us to interact, nurture and love each other.

 

I guess its natural that we would want to feel the fullest expression of love that we can. Be that via the search for a special partner or by growing together with the one you are with.

Edited November 4, 2009 by King Kabalabhati

[Deepbluesea]

Yeah I know... Well... I just married my current girlfriend.

 

Congratulations man! Best wishes

 

 

Well, now I feel stronger and don't think I'll ever attach to a girl as vulnerably as I did. It was because of me not feeling whole as myself so I needed her to fill my void. A bad bad ground for a relationship, it seems.

 

I would think an equally bad ground for a relationship would be one where you are not absolutely vulnerable to your partner and are not completely surrendering to their love.

[King Kabalabhati]

Yeah well, having hurt myself recently I'm just wondering if there's another way to do it... Possibly not

 

 

 

 

Congratulations man! Best wishes

I would think an equally bad ground for a relationship would be one where you are not absolutely vulnerable to your partner and are not completely surrendering to their love.

[Deepbluesea]

Yeah well, having hurt myself recently I'm just wondering if there's another way to do it... Possibly not

 

I'm sorry you were hurt, that sucks. My post wasn't supposed to be insulting or judgmental. Its just that when I go into things half-assed, I usually get half-assed results. Emotional pain is difficult to overcome, but you can because you must. You'll be ready to expose your chest to love once again soon enough. Best wishes!

[theoddore]

 

That's why it's good if you can put "God above everything", as it's said in a reggae song.

 

 

SEEEEEEN!!!!! Big up Anthony B. I overstand your situation to the fullest having been there myself. There are no accident tho--you will be more experienced in the future and now rewarded with better judgement.

 

Live up Rasta, Live up!

Edited November 4, 2009 by theoddore

[King Kabalabhati]

No worries bro, the pain is fading.. I was half-assed in my marriage in almost every way but in the emotional sense. I could compensate with a deep emotional connection and a good shared sense of humor for a long time..

 

But I've been half-assed with my life in general, so how could I give her anything more? It's time I get serious about doing things properly, so if I get another queen she will have more respect for me.. More safety, more trust, more confidence, more pleasure... And I'm going to try not to fall for a woman whom I can't fully respect. It sucks to love somebody so much that you end up swallowing too much. It's your liver who's gonna carry all that negative energy. Love your liver and live

 

 

I'm sorry you were hurt, that sucks. My post wasn't supposed to be insulting or judgmental. Its just that when I go into things half-assed, I usually get half-assed results. Emotional pain is difficult to overcome, but you can because you must. You'll be ready to expose your chest to love once again soon enough. Best wishes!

 

 

Fe real!! I've been a fan of the man since late 90's. I even chatted with him a few words on the Facebook

 

Thanks for the strengthening, life is beautiful when people encoureage one another. I'm forward!

 

Jah guide and protect.

 

King K

 

 

 

SEEEEEEN!!!!! Big up Anthony B. I overstand your situation to the fullest having been there myself. There are no accident tho--you will be more experienced in the future and now rewarded with better judgement.

 

Live up Rasta, Live up!

[Mark Foote]

This is a beautiful thread, I think, for the honesty of the people and the sharing. Thanks, all.

 

I heard Dr. John Lee speak about progesterone on the radio in Mendocino one day, and he was fascinating. A guy from Minnesota, treating women who were at risk for ovarian or mammarian cancer but suffering osteoporosis, in a family practice in Mill Valley, CA. Went to hear him speak at the Mendo Middle School gymnasium. Asked him about progesterone and joint pain, and he said it seemed to help his patients with arthritis, so I went for it. Rub 1/4 teaspoon of Progest on a different spot each day, knock off for a week or two weeks every so often.

 

Why bother with sexual cultivation, you can get the real thing in a tube?- is what I sometimes wonder. As Dr. Lee said, the message of estrogen to cells is divide and multiply (and I suspect that's the message in testosterone too), but the message of progesterone is mature. In the third trimester, the levels of progesterone in a woman's body are amazing.

 

Ok, I wouldn't do it to try to live forever, but if you have joint pain or osteoporosis you could check out Dr. John Lee's "what your Dr. may not tell you about menopause", or the companion books "what your Dr. may not tell you about premenopause" & "what your Dr. may not tell you about breast cancer". The latter not written by Dr. Lee himself. I can't say what sexual cultivation in Taoism is really about, but I think hormones is the most likely guess, personally.

 

As to my sex life, could be better! But you know what, I'm fine; my friends are golden, and when my heart was pulsing 133 the rest didn't matter (they fixed that).

 

kickin' in for fun, y'all- Mark

[Ada]

So... to carry on in the area I have been exploring lately.

Earlier in this post Vortex said

"Traditionally, women are thought to lose more energy from periods and birth, not so much orgasms (which are more implosive, than explosive, for them). In fact, it seems that some may even get more energized from orgasming...and have their sexual appetite stimulated even more than satiate"

 

The key word I focused on here is Traditionally. It seems that recent research into the female orgasm which is elucidated in Cupid's Poisoned Arrow tends to show that normal orgasms cause a very similar pattern in women as in Men. Orgasm throws the dopamine levels out of homeostasis for about two weeks, until return to baseline. This pattern can lead to habituation with ones partner, ie, behavior and attitude which tends to signal one to find fault in the partner, be irritated with the partner and so on, which is your genetic strategy to push you to find novel partners. In the book it is explained in much clearer terms and more specifically than I am doing here.

Another key part of Vortex's quote is "and have their sexual appetite stimulated even more than satiated"

This stimulation of the sexual appetite may well be the result of depletion and not fullness. The neurochemistry research tends to show that the attendant dip in dopamine after orgasm may lead one to seek orgasm again to alleviate the symptoms resulting from lowered dopamine after orgasm. This goes back to the point I made in another thread about the traditional idea that when sexual energy is full there will not be overly strong desire, something which didn't make sense to me previously. Apparently this pattern holds for men and women.

 

So the main point I am trying to focus on is the idea that orgasms are in some ways equally unbalancing hormonally if not indeed energetically depleting as with men. This is a BIG difference from the general idea about women portrayed in Taoist bedroom arts, esp Chia and others. Again, I think Chia's material holds some good keys and if using that material while keeping in mind that full orgasm for the woman may be a problem one can explore the "valley orgasm" concept with both partners energy flowing and both being careful not to overheat.

 

This is where my current explorations have led me.

Therefore I highly recommend Cupid's Poisoned Arrow for its explanations about brain chemistry, mammalian brain characteristics and the concept of two different types of lovemaking, fertilization based or bonding based.

 

The problem as I see it in pop Taoist lovemaking concepts is not making a clear distinction between the two modes of bonding based activity and fertilization based activity.

It is quite possible to engage in hot, sweaty intense and highly pleasurable sex and still use "Taoist" technique to control ejaculation and female orgasm as well. And it feels REALLY good!!! BUT...this isn't the real deal and may not even be that health promoting. The research shows that this kind of stimulation may still engage stress mechanisms and not promote the healing neurochemistry (oxytocin et,al). Of course the style described above will definitely give one more energy when compared to lovemaking with ejaculation, but the question of the quality of energy obtained is what I am questioning. Also, it is quite possible to practice this style of lovemaking without powerfully engaging the heart. This is my experience. One stays very focused on the body but the head is still in control not the heart.

 

So, in response to your query on what books to recommend I actually am not sure about recommending this book to someone new to these concepts. What I do know is that the Chia manual(s) tend to come off as very technical and not heart oriented. That is not to judge the overall concepts or approach of HT, just the way the books portray things IMO.

If I were trying to introduce someone to these concepts again I would definitely want some input which wasn't all about how to move energy around and more about the heart. Your situation may be a bit different in fact from the descriptions you have made about your long and short terms relationships so I am a bit of a loss to give advice to you given that your arrangements are so different than mine.

 

end of ramble...I hope there is something of use there.

 

Craig

Crazy ! Sidetrack like Smile said.

In my opinion this is a typical corruption of alchemy. Mistaking the semen for the jing. If one actually could do such alchemy it seems it would be much more effective to take in and blend energy during regular intercourse.

This seems to me a much healthier thoughtform overall.

 

Now I know why I never even picked up that book.

thanks

 

Craig

I have read the white tigress book. I did not find that it was necessary to sit and meditate for an hour afterwards.I must look again. I see the light in the semen and suck that into my head immiadetly. The energy from the orgasm can sometimes be unhealthy,yes,when its filled with bad feelings. That is not a gift to be happy about. I can feel the energy from it come to me but i don't think the bad feelings are sucked up. Because thet is like trash being throwed at me. It falls down to the grown.

 

the men she calls green dragons are the ones she take advantage of, but the boys themselves can possibly feel they are loved. Because they want a blow job, right? And the boys are not strangers,but someone she dates a while before having sex with. So it is romantic. I do not like the idea that she is keeping a secret from them. I will be open about it if I am starting this practice.

 

I miss some the focus on love/the heart in mantak chia and white tigress. I like karezza al lot. The woman who find a man who like it as well is lucky.

Edited November 19, 2009 by Ada

[immortal_sister]

The key word I focused on here is Traditionally. It seems that recent research into the female orgasm which is elucidated in Cupid's Poisoned Arrow tends to show that normal orgasms cause a very similar pattern in women as in Men. Orgasm throws the dopamine levels out of homeostasis for about two weeks, until return to baseline. This pattern can lead to habituation with ones partner, ie, behavior and attitude which tends to signal one to find fault in the partner, be irritated with the partner and so on, which is your genetic strategy to push you to find novel partners. In the book it is explained in much clearer terms and more specifically than I am doing here.

Another key part of Vortex's quote is "and have their sexual appetite stimulated even more than satiated"

This stimulation of the sexual appetite may well be the result of depletion and not fullness. The neurochemistry research tends to show that the attendant dip in dopamine after orgasm may lead one to seek orgasm again to alleviate the symptoms resulting from lowered dopamine after orgasm. This goes back to the point I made in another thread about the traditional idea that when sexual energy is full there will not be overly strong desire, something which didn't make sense to me previously. Apparently this pattern holds for men and women.

 

So the main point I am trying to focus on is the idea that orgasms are in some ways equally unbalancing hormonally if not indeed energetically depleting as with men. This is a BIG difference from the general idea about women portrayed in Taoist bedroom arts, esp Chia and others. Again, I think Chia's material holds some good keys and if using that material while keeping in mind that full orgasm for the woman may be a problem one can explore the "valley orgasm" concept with both partners energy flowing and both being careful not to overheat.

 

 

i think making a very broad statement that female orgasms can be as depleting as a man's ejaculatory orgasm can be correct. but i think this varies a LOT depending on the kind of orgasm you are having and who you are having it with (or if alone). these are all important variables. i can only speak from my personal experience, and i was discussing this with witch in the "heart orgasm thread" a few days ago. but i feel that different kind of orgasms have completely different spiritual, physiological, and energetic components. and the more i learn the more i can focus and choose whether an orgasm will be depleting for me or not.

 

i can relate to the dopamine dip causing a stimulation instead of a satiation. this is absolutely how i perceived and experienced orgasms when i was in my late teens - i was kind of an orgasm addict. but now, it is completely different, mainly because i am in a long term relationship with someone who practices sexual alchemy as well.

it all absolutely depends on whether i have a clitoral orgasm, a vaginal orgasm (and what kind of vaginal orgasm even!), ejaculatory orgasm or a heart orgasm. it would take a while to explain it all, and i am still in the process of understanding how this all works, but to me, clitoral orgasms are the most purely physical orgasms and slightly depleting. vaginal orgasms can either be very depleting, and i can send a lot of energy outward/to my partner or be the complete opposite and build a lot of energy / transmute a lot of energy if i breath through it and circulate my energy. heart orgasms to me are not depleting at all; witch said that they were very depleting to her. but that is not my experience. i hypothesize that this is in part due to the fact that i have these orgasms with a partner and that there is an equal exchange of energy between us. although there is a great release and expansion with a heart orgasm or full body orgasm, it is not depleting at all energetically.

 

 

The problem as I see it in pop Taoist lovemaking concepts is not making a clear distinction between the two modes of bonding based activity and fertilization based activity.

It is quite possible to engage in hot, sweaty intense and highly pleasurable sex and still use "Taoist" technique to control ejaculation and female orgasm as well. And it feels REALLY good!!! BUT...this isn't the real deal and may not even be that health promoting. The research shows that this kind of stimulation may still engage stress mechanisms and not promote the healing neurochemistry (oxytocin et,al). Of course the style described above will definitely give one more energy when compared to lovemaking with ejaculation, but the question of the quality of energy obtained is what I am questioning. Also, it is quite possible to practice this style of lovemaking without powerfully engaging the heart. This is my experience. One stays very focused on the body but the head is still in control not the heart.

 

what about a session that includes both sweaty, intense sex, and also includes highly connected energetic sex? i think this balances it out.

 

 

 

I have read the white tigress book. I did not find that it was necessary to sit and meditate for an hour afterwards.I must look again. I see the light in the semen and suck that into my head immiadetly. The energy from the orgasm can sometimes be unhealthy,yes,when its filled with bad feelings. That is not a gift to be happy about. I can feel the energy from it come to me but i don't think the bad feelings are sucked up. Because thet is like trash being throwed at me. It falls down to the grown.

 

this post is very timely for me as i just started reading the white tigress book. i have only read about 10 pages but so far a lot of things have really clicked with me, many things that i have not read explained elsewhere, or at least not in terms that i could relate to so easily.

 

i have no interested in practicing the semen absorbing techniques though. and even if i did, i am married to a man who practices sexual alchemy and retention, so it isn't an option my first thought reading about this technique was, wow you could be absorbing a lot of bad energy! ada, in your experience you don't perceive or absorb any bad energy? how is this so?

 

 

I miss some the focus on love/the heart in mantak chia and white tigress. I like karezza al lot. The woman who find a man who like it as well is lucky.

 

yes yes, i hear that i am all about the heart. i looked up karezza online, very interesting stuff. i'll have to share some thoughts when i have read more.

 

and reading books written by men is sometimes frustrating, because all they focus on is the technique, the technique etc etc. i have a hard time with chia's books, although i just pulled out my "cultivating female sexual energy" to have another look at it, its been a while since i read it.

Edited November 30, 2009 by immortal_sister

[Non]

u know.. I think people go around stealing each others energies even unconsciously. They dont know it but they do.

 

In such a case one should be more careful to not take him/her for granted and think /she knows all thats being done.

 

One thing thats for sure.. when a guy has sex with a woman he creates a sort of vacuum and sucks some of her energy up. The woman should also do the same. Both partners also get energy from the environment. Sex might even create a vaccuum whereby the mixing of both energies cause a drawing in of energy from the environment. Perhaps also a purging. Most people aren't consciously aware of this process and much less to direct this process consciously. I bet some people do this.. and dependinig on their own condition or the condition o the partner the sex leaves them feeling drained because their own conditions may cause them to take more energy from the partner than they intended to because they dont know how to control it or their own deficiencies take over. Or both partners don't know how to maximize the intaking of energy from the environmennt. Some just leave their energies wide open for maximum drainage and dont know it.. some will alow it, some won't.

 

One could play with these dynamics all day long and come to their own conclusions.

 

But with sexual kung fu one can learn to consciously direct this process, and also draw in energy Consciously from the environment so that a couple can energize themselves with sex. This supposedly already happens naturally with sex.. or at least sex that is "good enough".

 

So yea.. women and men should learn to redirect their orgasms but also be careful to not judge or misunderstand whats going on. I'm sure there are also man people who would call some of these people "psychic vampires" etc. Some of them though.. are unconscious vampires. This is different from those who are really conscious and even then... Some of them simply do it not just because they want to steal but because they might have to have a balance of yin/yang energy and elemental energy within themselves, wherever they may be deficient, for whatever purpose. Whatever that purpose is also might have to be looked into.

Edited November 28, 2009 by Non

[markern]

 

what about a session that includes both sweaty, intense sex, and also includes highly connected energetic sex? i think this balances it out.

 

and reading books written by men is sometimes frustrating, because all they focus on is the technique, the technique etc etc. i have a hard time with chia's books, although i just pulled out my "cultivating female sexual energy" to have another look at it, its been a while since i read it.

 

 

My teacher said that if you have hot sweaty :dopamine sex and then finish of very heart centered and calm the energy will go to the heart and be transformed. Or you could conciously draw the energy there. He also thought just following the sit still nurturing karezza style would get unbalanced in the end because it emphazises only the nurturing part of sex not the steamy.

 

Tired of thechnique? Read David Deida instead:)

Edited November 29, 2009 by markern

[immortal_sister]

My teacher said that if you have hot sweaty :dopamine sex and then finish of very heart centered and calm the energy will go to the heart and be transformed. Or you could conciously draw the energy there. He also thought just following the sit still nurturing karezza style would get unbalanced in the end because it emphazises only the nurturing part of sex not the steamy.

 

Tired of thechnique? Read David Deida instead:)

 

nice, that is definitely what my experience has taught me so far. its all about finding the middle path..

 

and yes, i have read david deida, i am a big fan of his. every woman should read his book "its a guy thing".

[Non]

I mean HELL we all exchange energies all the time some people are conscious of certain exchanges or not. Some of them are. Whether they are 'vampiric' or not, or deliberately stealing...

[RiverSnake]

Congratulations man! Best wishes

I would think an equally bad ground for a relationship would be one where you are not absolutely vulnerable to your partner and are not completely surrendering to their love.

 

 

Spiritually and in ones personal life balance is required (this is TAO BUMS). If your surrendering yourself completely to your partner then you have lack of respect for your own self and autonomy. There is such a thing as an over-active heart chakra. This is not a balanced and healthy relationship (dependency issues) when you give your entire self to your partner and then your companion will probably lose respect for you. I write this as advice for men...not women. I simply know that women enjoy a challenge and will dump you when they think they know all there is to know about you.

Edited November 29, 2009 by Tao Apprentice

[Non]

Spiritually and in ones personal life balance is required (this is TAO BUMS). If your surrendering yourself completely to your partner then you have lack of respect for your own self and autonomy. There is such a thing as an over-active heart chakra. This is not a balanced and healthy relationship (dependency issues) when you give your entire self to your partner and then your companion will probably lose respect for you. I write this as advice for men...not women. I simply know that women enjoy a challenge and will dump you when they think they know all there is to know about you.

 

 

Only for women though because they think they like and are addicted to Drama.

[immortal_sister]

Only for women though because they think they like and are addicted to Drama.

 

really? how old are you, 12?

[Non]

really? how old are you, 12?

 

[freeform]

My teacher said that if you have hot sweaty :dopamine sex and then finish of very heart centered and calm the energy will go to the heart and be transformed. Or you could conciously draw the energy there. He also thought just following the sit still nurturing karezza style would get unbalanced in the end because it emphazises only the nurturing part of sex not the steamy.

 

 

I agree with your teacher's perspective.

[markern]

I agree with your teacher's perspective.

 

Cool! It makes sense too me.