The Serpent - Satan?

[ShaktiMama]

I dont smoke weed

 

Ain't that the God's honest truth? who needs it?

 

Life is amazing when Shakti is in da house.

 

Dr. Morris used to say to me, "I bet if we gave you Acid it wouldn't even touch you."

 

s

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]

 

The view that satan is an entity or is inherently evil must be let go, It is just a symbolic representation of the material..

 

 

Are you going down that old 'Lavey' chestnut that satanism is just some kind of Earthism, and just man expressing his 'natural' self? The biggest trick Lavey ever played on man was getting them to believe that falsehood about Satanism.

 

 

Being forgiving denotes a generosity of spirit ...you are for - 'giving', in other words you make a choice to give energy to heal the situation rather than perpetuate the blame. There was a famous case in England of the mother of a boy killed in a racist attack who publicly forgave the attacker(s). She would have been justified in hating them because the attack was cruel and senseless but she chose to forgive ... it is a conscious choice and a noble one. It was very moving to see it.

 

Forgiveness heals the wounds of the past and as someone said it is not the same as 'forget' - in fact it is about not forgetting.

 

Back to Satan and serpent ...

 

The serpent Satan is said to have offered the knowledge of good and evil to Adam + Eve ... he is said to have 'tempted' them. I have seen this interpreted as being about duality. Good and evil are a duality and the 'tempting' is about entering into the time process. In ancient symbolism 'time' is shown as a segmented snake, each vertebrae representing a moment in time and the snake being like the stream of time. But also that time is just a kind serialization of the eternal (which is sometimes shown as the Ororberus or 'serpent with tail in mouth') ... in Egypt this was called 'mehen' meaning 'coiled' or sometimes the 'great world encircling serpent'.

 

The 'fall' of Adam and Eve then is simply that their minds became fragmented into the 'parts' or elements of experience - they began to see the world as comprising separate objects in space rather than a continuum, the snake is a symbol for that continuum ... and specifically in that fragmented state. Our job, if you like, is to realize that the snake is continuous and part of that process is to realign the scattered energy (hence the symbolism of the snake which is wound round a staff - or sometimes two snakes). To do that we need to forgive the snake/Satan for having lured us into the mess we find ourselves.

 

My thoughts.

 

John

 

In general this makes sense to me. Tempted downwards and a separation in consciousness ensuing..... creating all so called 'evils' and the perpetuation of such.

[Birch]

TaoMeow has it down and dandy. I can't recall the specifics but some old thing about "rendering unto old forgotten king dude what is his" is IMO the only way to go. Mostly of course this does not involve actual physical retribution (at worst we will make ponies out of flour and sacrifice them with the BonPo) apart from the fact that actual physical retribution is highly sanctioned. So what's a girl to do????

 

Telling me this has anything to do with snakes and nothing to do with my own power (valid for everyone IMO) is at best disengenious IMO

 

I have no idea what it could be at its worst.

[Vajrasattva]

the serpent was the source of power in the ancient times and the wisdom. Christ himself said at one point to be the serpent. The serpent is not "the Devil". Never has been. The shamans still see the serpent as power.

 

it goes back to the primordial dragon so loved in the east and probably the 1st teacher of what you know of today as the "tao".

 

and the white giant snake of the earth that protected the natives & the Jungles of pangia prior to the split of the original land.

[Raymond Wolter]

Christ himself said at one point to be the serpent.

Interesting. Can you please point to the source where he calls himself the serpent?

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]

the serpent was the source of power in the ancient times and the wisdom. Christ himself said at one point to be the serpent. The serpent is not "the Devil". Never has been. The shamans still see the serpent as power.

 

it goes back to the primordial dragon so loved in the east and probably the 1st teacher of what you know of today as the "tao".

 

and the white giant snake of the earth that protected the natives & the Jungles of pangia prior to the split of the original land.

 

I'd agree that the whole serpent thing is a bit off. I think there is a big distinction between the so called 'serpent Satan' and the Kundalini. I think the serpent Satan is perhaps a misnomer. One is breaking the connection with the divine(Satan, or the grouping of forces that are aligned with the Satanic)and the other establishes a connection with the divine(kundalini).

 

Perhaps there is a dualistic black snake/white snake thing going on. There did used to be a rather poor rock band called 'White Snake', that, however, is irrelevant.

[C T]

Maybe humans just aren't happy and contented with simply being humans any more....

 

Representations of the unseen, the ineffable, and the indescribable have taken on new meanings of late. Not saying its a bad thing, but to be caught in the duality of seeing the representations as having a shadow quality (good serpent/bad serpent) could lead to losing one's presence, and that is definitely not 'in the flow' of things. For example, instead of enjoying a nice cup of tea, while there is tea in the cup, one longs for coffee instead, or perhaps, even more silly, donuts to go with the coffee... mmm, maybe choc muffins would be nice, too... and there, the mindfulness of tea-drinking goes out the window. Before we realize what's going on, the serpent of Shaitan slithers into our thoughts. Now, how did one get from sipping tea to thoughts about snakes, lizards and dragons!?!! Wandering away, the mind wonders... and this is how we end up mindlessly compounding layers of distraction upon distraction.

 

Come back to the Present moment... joyful meowment!

[DarthBane]

deleted rediculous humor.

Edited July 30, 2010 by Guest

[Birch]

Aren't snakes supposed to be THE number one thing people are "naturally" afraid of?

 

In which case it makes total sense to keep "power and wisdom" under the skin of one - means folks will stay away and behave...

[3bob]

Aren't snakes supposed to be THE number one thing people are "naturally" afraid of?

 

In which case it makes total sense to keep "power and wisdom" under the skin of one - means folks will stay away and behave...

 

Hey Kate,

 

Do horses reincarnate? I know they can have various personality traits to work out. (Btw, I believe they tend to not like snakes)

 

Om

Edited July 29, 2010 by 3bob

[ShaktiMama]

Interesting. Can you please point to the source where he calls himself the serpent?

 

 

http://bible.cc/matthew/10-16.htm

 

The bible verse is numerous versions with commentary at the bottom.

 

I spent a couple of years in a fundamentalist bible college when I was younger.

 

s

[Vajrasattva]

http://bible.cc/matthew/10-16.htm

 

The bible verse is numerous versions with commentary at the bottom.

 

I spent a couple of years in a fundamentalist bible college when I was younger.

 

s

 

 

also note the white dove was an important symbol to the ancient african religions where the "serpent" was the creator.

[Owledge]

I dont smoke weed

-edited-

 

Are you going down that old 'Lavey' chestnut that satanism is just some kind of Earthism, and just man expressing his 'natural' self? The biggest trick Lavey ever played on man was getting them to believe that falsehood about Satanism.

I wonder how much of Satanism is accepting and thus perpetuating mere Christian hate-propaganda-symbology. I mean, a Satanist should be aware that the horned goat man, to take a good example, is pagan nature- and fertility symbology. Combining this with wickedness would be falling for that propaganda and doing the Church a favor.

 

Come back to the Present moment... joyful meowment!

Or joyful mooment in your case?

 

also note the white dove was an important symbol to the ancient african religions where the "serpent" was the creator.

By the way... Does the name "dove" imply that it was once a sea creature? Or maybe a bird of prey, diving out of the sky onto its prey?

Edited August 14, 2010 by Hardyg

[Brian]

..

[Ramon25]

Are you going down that old 'Lavey' chestnut that satanism is just some kind of Earthism, and just man expressing his 'natural' self? The biggest trick Lavey ever played on man was getting them to believe that falsehood about Satanism.

 

 

 

 

In general this makes sense to me. Tempted downwards and a separation in consciousness ensuing..... creating all so called 'evils' and the perpetuation of such.

 

 

I mentioned nothing of "satanism" or Earth ism. Strictly symbolically speaking, Satan is a symbol of the earth and its oldest archetypes which have existed in every tradition have always been associated with the earth or below type verbage. I dont believe in a satan. I believe in archetypes. So If you actually believe that a horned red guy is some where down below ready to torture You if u listen to him and that is responsible for all the negativity people do than That is your belief and fine but you wont be able to understand what I am saying if you do, BUT ofcourse the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convince the world he didnt exist haha

[Owledge]

While we're on that quote, though -- anyone ever actually watch doves? They aren't terribly peaceful! (Just a curious side-thought.)

Then you have seen doves of a kind I never have. Please report your observations.

[Creation]

"Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves."

 

I think it is stretching a bit to say that this verse (even when taken directly from the Greek) is Jesus claiming to be "the serpent"...

The verse does show that Jesus was not anti-snakes, since he told his followers to be like snakes. Snakes are considered to be shrewd in various cultures, but the other side of shrewdness is deceitful craftiness, which is one possibility as for why the snake is the animal that tempts Eve in the garden. Not because snakes are considered to be intrinsically evil by the authors of the Bible. That is just how superstitious people have twisted it.

 

However, Jesus does in fact compare himself to a snake:

"Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life." (John 3:14-15).

 

He is referring to an incident in Israel's exodus from Egypt:

"From Mount Hor they set out by the way to the Red Sea, to go around the land of Edom. And the people became impatient on the way. 5 And the people spoke against God and against Moses, “Why have you brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? For there is no food and no water, and we loathe this worthless food.” 6 Then the Lord sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people, so that many people of Israel died. 7 And the people came to Moses and said, “We have sinned, for we have spoken against the Lord and against you. Pray to the Lord, that he take away the serpents from us.” So Moses prayed for the people. 8 And the Lord said to Moses, “Make a fiery serpent and set it on a pole, and everyone who is bitten, when he sees it, shall live.” 9 So Moses made a bronze serpent and set it on a pole. And if a serpent bit anyone, he would look at the bronze serpent and live. " (Numbers 24:4-9)

 

Now does the image of a snake on a pole remind you of anything?

 

Ramon,

 

I don't understand why you have identified the archetypes of the Goddess Shakti, Mother Earth, and Satan. It seems to me that the first two are related but not the same, and the last is completely different. Satan means Accuser, and is the being who brings charges of wrongdoing against humanity, and who tempts humanity into sin, especially by deception, in order to bring more charges against them.

 

1 And a great portent appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars; 2 she was with child and she cried out in her pangs of birth, in anguish for delivery. 3 And another portent appeared in heaven; behold, a great red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems upon his heads. 4 His tail swept down a third of the stars of heaven, and cast them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to bear a child, that he might devour her child when she brought it forth; 5 she brought forth a male child, one who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron, but her child was caught up to God and to his throne, 6 and the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, in which to be nourished for one thousand two hundred and sixty days. 7 Now war arose in heaven, Michael and his angels fighting against the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they were defeated and there was no longer any place for them in heaven. 9 And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the Devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world--he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. 10 And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, "Now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God. 11 And they have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, for they loved not their lives even unto death. 12 Rejoice then, O heaven and you that dwell therein! But woe to you, O earth and sea, for the devil has come down to you in great wrath, because he knows that his time is short!" 13 And when the dragon saw that he had been thrown down to the earth, he pursued the woman who had borne the male child. 14 But the woman was given the two wings of the great eagle that she might fly from the serpent into the wilderness, to the place where she is to be nourished for a time, and times, and half a time. 15 The serpent poured water like a river out of his mouth after the woman, to sweep her away with the flood. 16 But the earth came to the help of the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed the river which the dragon had poured from his mouth. 17 Then the dragon was angry with the woman, and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and bear testimony to Jesus. And he stood on the sand of the sea.

(Revelation 12)

 

This verse shows that Satan and Mother Earth are completely different, and that The Earth and God are on the same side.

 

Just because Hell is referred to as being underground doesn't make Christians anti-Earth. Don't Hindu's and Buddhists also refer to the Hell Realms as being below and the Heavenly Realms as being above? This is universal. Actually, the ancient Jews believed that (almost) all the souls of the dead went to sleep below the Earth, in the Underworld (which they called Sheol, and used the word Hades when translating their Scriptures into Greek), and only rarely would someone go to be with God in Heaven straight from the Earth.

Edited July 29, 2010 by Creation

[Birch]

"Hey Kate,

 

Do horses reincarnate? I know they can have various personality traits to work out. (Btw, I believe they tend to not like snakes)"

 

No idea! i guess it depends how they were broken in to start with.

 

Back to topic. Alright so all this stuff in the desert was maybe referencing whatshisname raising "kundalini" and then somehow transmitting it to the rest of the people so they could make it through the desert ordeal.

 

Man those books sure cause a lot of trouble. No cliff notes??

[DarthBane]

I know there are several verses in the bible including revelation where he named as the original serpent.

 

I know people youually quote 2 Timothy 3:16 (King James Version)

 

16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

 

All scriptures of different kinds are tools, right?

But if we over use them they become a crutch and we can not out grow them.

Edited July 30, 2010 by Guest

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]

I mentioned nothing of "satanism" or Earth ism. Strictly symbolically speaking, Satan is a symbol of the earth and its oldest archetypes which have existed in every tradition have always been associated with the earth or below type verbage. I dont believe in a satan. I believe in archetypes. So If you actually believe that a horned red guy is some where down below ready to torture You if u listen to him and that is responsible for all the negativity people do than That is your belief and fine but you wont be able to understand what I am saying if you do, BUT ofcourse the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convince the world he didnt exist haha

 

The horned red guy you speak of is 'Pan', a god of fertility that was demonized(literally)by the early Christians in Europe. That is where the 'red horned demon/Devil' got his 'look' from.

 

And that is the point I'm trying to make, an earthy fertility God is not the same as Satan(archetype or not). Since you have spoken of Mr. Satan, I'm assuming you think of him in terms of Pan, as that is what you have previously stated. But Pan is Pan, and whatever Satan is would be quite different. Trying to have Satan fit the Earth God mold, and making him nice and innocent and natural, was a move the Satanists tried to pull(and still do), hence the reference. you're mixing up the two.

 

The Christians turned Pan into a Demon, and the Satanists turned the demon back into Pan. Both religions did this for their own purposes.

Edited July 30, 2010 by Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that

[Vajrasattva]

The horned red guy you speak of is 'Pan', a god of fertility that was demonized(literally)by the early Christians in Europe. That is where the 'red horned demon/Devil' got his 'look' from.

 

And that is the point I'm trying to make, an earthy fertility God is not the same as Satan(archetype or not). Since you have spoken of Mr. Satan, I'm assuming you think of him in terms of Pan, as that is what you have previously stated. But Pan is Pan, and whatever Satan is would be quite different. Trying to have Satan fit the Earth God mold, and making him nice and innocent and natural, was a move the Satanists tried to pull(and still do), hence the reference. you're mixing up the two.

 

The Christians turned Pan into a Demon, and the Satanists turned the demon back into Pan. Both religions did this for their own purposes.

 

 

Pan is cool a very cool guy.

[Birch]

"Pan is cool a very cool guy."

 

Haven't met him in person but I figure he's having way more fun romping around the woods playing music and doing bacchanals with nymph-chicks than I'm having right now tapping on a keyboard...hum, going outside sounds like a good idea.

[ShaktiMama]

"Pan is cool a very cool guy."

 

Haven't met him in person but I figure he's having way more fun romping around the woods playing music and doing bacchanals with nymph-chicks than I'm having right now tapping on a keyboard...hum, going outside sounds like a good idea.

 

He will come if you ask politely. I see him tending to the Earth now and then.

s

[Vajrasattva]

He will come if you ask politely. I see him tending to the Earth now and then.

s

 

 

susan you sacrificing chickens tonight?

[Student_Forever]

One Should know How to awake the Kundalini and then - "Very Important" - How to Control It. It has enormous power and if not controlled under guidance of a realized being , it can cause havoc... like Atomic power.. If you can control, you get free energy, if you cant control you get atomic bomb... Be careful with energy...