The Serpent - Satan?

[Birch]

"How to Control It. "

 

I would suggest "how to control your reactions to it". The reason I say that is because "it" is heading in a very particular direction. I think it's one that is "good" for you in the long run but may bring you closer to more "issues" faster than you might have preferred. I won't even get into the detoxing issue because that's on another good thread that I'd like to see develop.

 

You don't even have to be awake to it to have this happen. In fact IMO that's what life does for you de facto. So many opportunities that put you over and over again in a position to wake up and realise the dualities that have been manufactured for you and on which side of them "you" actually exist.

[suninmyeyes]

I also dont think it is about controlling kundalini ,but to stop resisting and allowing /accepting her to manifest through body/mind.

It is fresh intelligence manifesting and old set of habits/thought structures are being totally reshaped.She is changing everything and totally knows what she is doing, so relaxing is the key.It is like trying to stop Sun from shining.

Some time ago Ive read a poem by an Indian sage(cant remember his name),but he says

"...to really love ,means to embrace uncertainty."

[Owledge]

Some time ago Ive read a poem by an Indian sage(cant remember his name),but he says

"...to really love ,means to embrace uncertainty."

Sounds untrue to me after doing a few quick reality checks, and needing explanation, because it is very far from easily understandable.

Besides, I'm especially wary when someone talks about a "true" something or to "really" do something.

[3bob]

"...to really love, means to embrace uncertainty."

 

I'd take that along the lines of or related to, "a leap of faith" for there is an element of uncertainty in such a leap. (to Love)

[suninmyeyes]

Sounds untrue to me after doing a few quick reality checks, and needing explanation, because it is very far from easily understandable.

Besides, I'm especially wary when someone talks about a "true" something or to "really" do something.

Hardyg,since I dont know the whole verse it may get misinterpreted.So here we go.

It is a mystical poetry written by a sage with reference to kundalini.

And it backs up (and also resonates with my own expirience-which doesent have to be the same for all of us)what i wrote about not controlling but relaxing and not resisting new and very unfamiliar force to manifest.

It is definetly not meant to point out to stop thinking and become a doormat or similar.

Hope this explains it a bit better.

[rain]

I also dont think it is about controlling kundalini ,but to stop resisting and allowing /accepting her to manifest through body/mind.

It is fresh intelligence manifesting and old set of habits/thought structures are being totally reshaped.She is changing everything and totally knows what she is doing, so relaxing is the key.It is like trying to stop Sun from shining.

Some time ago Ive read a poem by an Indian sage(cant remember his name),but he says

"...to really love ,means to embrace uncertainty."

 

 

maybe it is not only about kundalini rising

but also about what you are after she has risen

[suninmyeyes]

maybe it is not only about kundalini rising

but also about what you are after she has risen

Yes Rain,i agree

[Ramon25]

The horned red guy you speak of is 'Pan', a god of fertility that was demonized(literally)by the early Christians in Europe. That is where the 'red horned demon/Devil' got his 'look' from.

 

And that is the point I'm trying to make, an earthy fertility God is not the same as Satan(archetype or not). Since you have spoken of Mr. Satan, I'm assuming you think of him in terms of Pan, as that is what you have previously stated. But Pan is Pan, and whatever Satan is would be quite different. Trying to have Satan fit the Earth God mold, and making him nice and innocent and natural, was a move the Satanists tried to pull(and still do), hence the reference. you're mixing up the two.

 

The Christians turned Pan into a Demon, and the Satanists turned the demon back into Pan. Both religions did this for their own purposes.

 

Your being to literal, They are all one acrhetype at there foundation that are TAINTED by differents faith\ traditions, The early church had a reason for turning pan into satan, because they were destroy the pagan faith, U JUST SAID ABOVE that they are one thing that has been colored by different perspectives whether they are understood or not, There is no ARCHETYPE soley responsible for the evil people do, Just different complexes between the archetypes, There is no DEVIL, NO TRUE satan,

[Vajrasattva]

One Should know How to awake the Kundalini and then - "Very Important" - How to Control It. It has enormous power and if not controlled under guidance of a realized being , it can cause havoc... like Atomic power.. If you can control, you get free energy, if you cant control you get atomic bomb... Be careful with energy...

 

 

Hm its more about letting go relaxing more and also having the right understanding and connections of your vehicle with Mother Earth so you can handle the juice.

[sifusufi]

Pan is cool a very cool guy.

 

Indeed

 

 

susan you sacrificing chickens tonight?

 

Party at our place tonight Grilling Steaks watermelon Jazz and maybe some True Blood

Edited July 31, 2010 by sifusufi

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]

Your being to literal, They are all one acrhetype at there foundation that are TAINTED by differents faith\ traditions, The early church had a reason for turning pan into satan, because they were destroy the pagan faith, U JUST SAID ABOVE that they are one thing that has been colored by different perspectives whether they are understood or not, There is no ARCHETYPE soley responsible for the evil people do, Just different complexes between the archetypes, There is no DEVIL, NO TRUE satan,

 

I don't believe they are one archetype. One is related to nature and the other is related to devolution. My meaning was the Christians perverted the view of one to make it look like another...not that it is the same as the other.

 

The whole archetype argument is kind of moot in my view, as Jung himself drew heavily from the esoteric and mysticism and tried to present it in a manner acceptable to present day society. A repackaging if you will.

 

But in any case...since everything is archetypes to you(which is fair enough)I'm kind of wondering if chi is too....and kundalini and so on. If not, how do you reconcile your view?

 

I should perhaps point out why in the first place I picked up on your comment. I really don't want someone one day doing an online search for satan/nature and coming upon the idea that it's the same thing, and then running off and becoming a Satanist thinking it's all nice and natural. Although they will be told much the same as what you said by the Satanists, they will find, one day, they are in deep s***.

 

I know you are not necessarily talking about Satanism the religion, but you can see I'm sure, how someone might make the link. For you, from your view of archetypes, I know it would perhaps be harmless, and Satanism is presented as such these days, but the truth, as far as my perceptions go, is otherwise... not that I'm necessarily saying there is one boogey man called Satan knocking about.... but there are definitely somethings that can be a real pain in the ass to get rid of... or perhaps I should say it in Jungian terms....an archetype that is difficult to assimilate. Whichever you choose is fine by me.

[Ramon25]

I don't believe they are one archetype. One is related to nature and the other is related to devolution. My meaning was the Christians perverted the view of one to make it look like another...not that it is the same as the other.

 

The whole archetype argument is kind of moot in my view, as Jung himself drew heavily from the esoteric and mysticism and tried to present it in a manner acceptable to present day society. A repackaging if you will.

 

But in any case...since everything is archetypes to you(which is fair enough)I'm kind of wondering if chi is too....and kundalini and so on. If not, how do you reconcile your view?

 

I should perhaps point out why in the first place I picked up on your comment. I really don't want someone one day doing an online search for satan/nature and coming upon the idea that it's the same thing, and then running off and becoming a Satanist thinking it's all nice and natural. Although they will be told much the same as what you said by the Satanists, they will find, one day, they are in deep s***.

 

I know you are not necessarily talking about Satanism the religion, but you can see I'm sure, how someone might make the link. For you, from your view of archetypes, I know it would perhaps be harmless, and Satanism is presented as such these days, but the truth, as far as my perceptions go, is otherwise... not that I'm necessarily saying there is one boogey man called Satan knocking about.... but there are definitely somethings that can be a real pain in the ass to get rid of... or perhaps I should say it in Jungian terms....an archetype that is difficult to assimilate. Whichever you choose is fine by me.

 

ur a Smart guy, I like u. HAHA. But yes in I see your point! definatley not a "satanist" I try to keep A balanced perspective, so that wouldnt work for me. Someone might make that connection and your concern is appreciated. I didnt see that. I can see what u mean, the whole devolution perspective on "satan". I myslef am more attracted to the warrior/scolar/sage archetype lol. Anyways to me chi is is a whole set of quantam processes that are collectivly " chi" I see nothing wrong with it simply being chi though. Kundalini to me on the other hand is a VERY literal biological/ pshyco-spiritual evolutionary force also related to quantam processes. actually its as 'real" as its gets for me. More foundational than archetypes, Yet like every other state can be affected by archetypes due to whatever we asscociate with.

[Vajrahridaya]

Kundalini is basically the manifestation of ones spiritual merits. I don't believe that Shakti chooses anything. A persons merit just manifests according to karma, which is deeply organic and not a mechanistic view that some people consider. It's not black and white and much subtler and far more complex than any other concept as everything is karma, and it's complexity is infinite, not as an inherent being, but merely as movement, as karma merely means action.

 

So, when a person is open due to spiritual merit, they will receive that reflection from any reflecting medium, anywhere, at any time. Even online, or just by seeing a picture of one that you might have a karmic connection to. But, different beings have different reflecting powers due to the level of clarity or lineage they themselves are connected to, and this connection is also reflected in the individuals karma who receives the blessing. This is very deep and would take a vast amount of writing in order to go into the detail of this truth of the nature of relative manifesting.

 

Also, because my view is Buddhist, we don't believe in an all subsuming source of everything, which everything manifests from, so the much used Hindu idea that Shakti is basically just acting to bring beings who are ready back to the source of all things does not reflect the Buddhist understanding of how the cosmos works. Since our mindstreams are beginningless throughout beginningless cosmic cycles, having kundalini awakening does not mean that one will definitely attain liberation, unless the view is clear about the nature of infinite regress of one's personal karma and how this is the cause of how it manifests. We as Buddhists don't believe in a supreme will that decides things. It's all our own individual doing on a deeply interconnected level with other individual beings infinitely and endlessly.

 

For Buddhists, Shakti just means "power". We actually prefer to use Prajna, or wisdom and our spiritual wisdom manifests according to our opening to insight, and not due to a divine will. Though, a persons lineage, manifest due to karma does determine the type or nuanced way of this power (shakti), as a Kundalini awaken-er is empowered by his or her chosen lineage of connecting.

 

If anyone even if they disagree, which is fine, wants to refine my opinion through questioning, I am open to field these questions nicely, without confrontation.

Edited August 1, 2010 by Vajrahridaya

[Ramon25]

Kundalini is basically the manifestation of ones spiritual merits. I don't believe that Shakti chooses anything. A persons merit just manifests according to karma, which is deeply organic and not a mechanistic view that some people consider. It's not black and white and much subtler and far more complex than any other concept as everything is karma, and it's complexity is infinite, not as an inherent being, but merely as movement, as karma merely means action.

 

So, when a person is open due to spiritual merit, they will receive that reflection from any reflecting medium, anywhere, at any time. Even online, or just by seeing a picture of one that you might have a karmic connection to. But, different beings have different reflecting powers due to the level of clarity or lineage they themselves are connected to, and this connection is also reflected in the individuals karma who receives the blessing. This is very deep and would take a vast amount of writing in order to go into the detail of this truth of the nature of relative manifesting.

 

Also, because my view is Buddhist, we don't believe in an all subsuming source of everything, which everything manifests from, so the much used Hindu idea that Shakti is basically just acting to bring beings who are ready back to the source of all things does not reflect the Buddhist understanding of how the cosmos works. Since our mindstreams are beginningless throughout beginningless cosmic cycles, having kundalini awakening does not mean that one will definitely attain liberation, unless the view is clear about the nature of infinite regress of one's personal karma and how this is the cause of how it manifests. We as Buddhists don't believe in a supreme will that decides things. It's all our own individual doing on a deeply interconnected level with other individual beings infinitely and endlessly.

 

For Buddhists, Shakti just means "power". We actually prefer to use Prajna, or wisdom and our spiritual wisdom manifests according to our opening to insight, and not due to a divine will. Though, a persons lineage, manifest due to karma does determine the type or nuanced way of this power (shakti), as a Kundalini awaken-er is empowered by his or her chosen lineage of connecting.

 

If anyone even if they disagree, which is fine, wants to refine my opinion through questioning, I am open to field these questions nicely, without confrontation.

 

What do you mean by lineage one is connected too? What is spiritual merit exactly?

[Vajrahridaya]

What do you mean by lineage one is connected too? What is spiritual merit exactly?

 

Lineage as in lineage of teachers, sages, gurus, deities of veneration.

 

Spiritual merit as in ones spiritual, or beyond mundane opening potential. Everyones is infinite, but I mean practically, like how deeply open one actually is during any given moment. This is consciously, subconsciously and even unconsciously. Because some people have absolutely no conscious opening towards spiritual paths, but they come into contact with a spiritually illumined being who reflects ones own unconscious spiritual merit, and blamo!! They get zapped and are taken to an entirely different realm of awareness instantaneously without their conscious opening to be as such.

[Ramon25]

Well I didnt hav ant teachers pursay at the time of awakening. I had mine at 17. Santihas helped me get more balanced in the last year or so, but not at first. I was meditating on my own. I n the otherhand have always been quite open to spirtual issues and was an an empath at early age. Seems like an interesting perspective

[Vajrahridaya]

Well I didnt hav ant teachers pursay at the time of awakening. I had mine at 17. Santihas helped me get more balanced in the last year or so, but not at first. I was meditating on my own. I n the otherhand have always been quite open to spirtual issues and was an an empath at early age. Seems like an interesting perspective

 

Sure, i would say this reveals that you did lots of spiritual work on yourself in past lives.

[Vajrasattva]

Sure, i would say this reveals that you did lots of spiritual work on yourself in past lives.

 

 

Yes that is Clear.

 

Ramon is a special person for sure.

[Vajrahridaya]

Yes that is Clear.

 

Ramon is a special person for sure.

 

Yes, it's clear that you have as well.

[Ramon25]

Yes that is Clear.

 

Ramon is a special person for sure.

 

Thanks Santi

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]

I like u.

 

Likewise, I'm sure

[Vajrasattva]

 

Yes, it's clear that you have as well.

 

 

a om hum

[Astral_Anima]

Just to add my 2cents...

 

In response to the OP (sry i haven't read everyone's posts yet), I think I have a theory that may explain the seeming contradiction.

 

My belief is that power is free of alignment. By that, I believe that you don't have to be "good" or "bad" in order to have power. I believe Kundahlini is indeed an awakening of power from within, but that power can be used in whatever way the individual decides to focus that power. Therefore I believe that dragons and such are indeed powerful beings, but just because they're powerful doesn't mean they have your best interest in mind. In this world anyone can bodybuild and learn to fight, but we don't worship that person as being "good", we just see them as powerful (which is free of alignment). I'm pretty sure it's the same in the "spirit realm", there are "good" and "bad" spirits/dragons/entites.

 

That being said, on a completely unrelated (?) note, I think the concept of "channeling" an unknown energy or force is quite risky and can prove dangerous. i've heard of people whose "spirit guides" and "enlightened teachers" have turned on them and caused alot of problems.

 

Usually the more power the more room for temptation and corruption.

-Astral

[lino]

deleted

Edited August 12, 2010 by lino

[Vajrahridaya]

Try mundane imagined bad karmas. Look at the myths from greek/Roman mythology, the Bible,

and the Quran. The 33 Crore Gods from the Vedas. People have to find the bad quality

in the myths and the corresponding bad quality. The bad quality is what is supposed to be

done to give a rising to the kundalini.

 

A lot of the kundalini bad qualities are imagined and a lot of them are gross abuses.

The imagined bad qualities are parts of natural volition.

 

More comments later.

 

 

Ok. I'm looking forward to knowing exactly what you are getting at. Kundalini is just light illuminating your karmas, good or bad, doesn't matter as it's all just action and reaction. So, it seems bad, but it's really just a side you have to walk through in order to know yourself better, to illumine every aspect of your own consciousness. Every being who has walked the path has to go through their dark night. It really helps if you connect to a truly awakened lineage though. I mean... really, really helps. I would say that Santi and Shakti-mamma are wonderful people and I can truly detect this, but I'd go for more anciently connected lineage at this point for you specifically. Just because you are you... I think you need some deeply realized hermit or something that's so deeply connected to ancient lineage that is not to be mistaken.