Living Tao In The World

[awake0ness]

46. Desire and wanting cause discontent,

whilst he who knows sufficiency

more easily has what he requires.

 

48. When pursuing knowledge,

something new is acquired each day.

But when pursuing the way of the Tao,

something is subtracted;

less striving occurs,

until there is no striving.

When effort is uncontrived,

nothing is left undone;

the way of nature rules

by allowing things to take their course,

not by contriving to change.

 

76.The warrior who is inflexible

condemns himself to death,

and the tree is easily broken,

which ever refuses to yield.

Thus the hard and brittle will surely fall,

and the soft and supple will overcome.

 

61.By giving way to the other,

one country may conquer another;

a small country may submit to a large,

and conquer it, though having no arms.

Those who conquer must be willing to yield;

to yield may be to overcome.

 

 

I would like your thoughts and experiences on how to best to live in the world without desire, without striving and yielding to others?

 

Where have you been successful doing this and why? How did you do it?

 

I struggled with this for many years. Being in business and school for example, and colleagues more then eager to 'take advantage' of the situation.

 

David

[ToL]

Thank you for these beautiful words.

We are trying to change things, external things, meterial things, people, to accept us, the battle is between our own inner world and the outer world. We are happy when the two worlds look the same, sad and angry when they are not. But what if there are no 2 worlds but one? when we use the outer world for the development of the inner world, you will start too see one, when you will give up to this one, you will feel it, and you will do nothing. it's not as easy as people say, but it is simple in it's nature, you stop judging creation, when you stop juding, there is nothing to FIX, it is perfect motion. The herd of ships that you hated and didn't want to become one of, is now dancing, they are not white, but pink(pink ships, how awkward...). If the herd is dancing what is the need of a shepherd?

[awake0ness]

Thank you for these beautiful words.

We are trying to change things, external things, meterial things, people, to accept us, the battle is between our own inner world and the outer world. We are happy when the two worlds look the same, sad and angry when they are not. But what if there are no 2 worlds but one? when we use the outer world for the development of the inner world, you will start too see one, when you will give up to this one, you will feel it, and you will do nothing. it's not as easy as people say, but it is simple in it's nature, you stop judging creation, when you stop juding, there is nothing to FIX, it is perfect motion. The herd of ships that you hated and didn't want to become one of, is now dancing, they are not white, but pink(pink ships, how awkward...). If the herd is dancing what is the need of a shepherd?

 

 

Thank you ToL.

 

You're words had wisdom to them and a calming effect on me!

 

Peace,

David

[beancurdturtle]

I would like your thoughts and experiences on how to best to live in the world without desire, without striving and yielding to others?

 

Where have you been successful doing this and why? How did you do it?

My answers own to your questions (for whatever they are worth) are here: http://beancurdturtle.spaces.live.com/blog...!2155.entry

 

I've posted it before, so rather than post it again I offer the link.

 

Peace,

[JackSquat]

It is my personal belief (take it as you will) that what needs to be submitted to is the recognition of a reality that includes people who will walk all over you if you let them, along with many other things we would prefer not to encounter. The reality of life is that occasionally violence is necessary; this is why gung fu was invented by monks. I'm sure the business world is just as full of criminals and con men as ancient China, and I recommend you learn some verbal gung fu. Don't think I'm promoting mean-spirited behavior, just rational defense of the innocent. Remember that all things require balance, and submission (yin) must be sometimes balanced by unsavory actions (yang). After all, karma's a bitch!

[phore]

I would suggest that instead of eliminating desire eliminate attachment.

 

Desire moves forward

attachment gets dragged forward kicking and screaming.

 

Desire is love

attachment is fear.

 

Desire is arriving

attachment is striving

 

Some examples of people who have eliminated desire:

 

The business man who works all of the time and neglects his family, health, and spirituality because of his attachment to money. He would probably find it difficult to retire if he reached that age. He will probably die long before because of health complications

 

The woman who stays in a bad relationship. She constantly faced physical and mental abuse and refeuses to sever the relationship and move on because of her attachment to her relationship.

 

Desire is what creates the universe.

 

Desire is what drives you toward enlightenment. Attachment is what prevents you from getting there.

 

Cultivate desire and detachment.

[Bob_9]

Some years ago I came across a passage in a book which described anything which is truly important as having at least one of the following four characteristics;

 

GOODNESS, TRUTH, WISDOM, BEAUTY.

 

Only then can the subject be considered important and therefore possibly worthy of defence.

 

I often apply this to problems and issues in my life, just playing around in my head with the idea. It can be very good for putting things in perspective.

[mattmiddleton]

Some years ago I came across a passage in a book which described anything which is truly important as having at least one of the following four characteristics;

 

GOODNESS, TRUTH, WISDOM, BEAUTY.

 

Only then can the subject be considered important and therefore possibly worthy of defence.

 

I often apply this to problems and issues in my life, just playing around in my head with the idea. It can be very good for putting things in perspective.

 

 

Hmmmmm. I live in a fairly easy going part of the world - Dunedin, New Zealand - a small university town in the country's South Island. I am a recording artist/musician, run a web-site and sell my product online (in little sporadic bursts ) And no, this isnt an ad. It relates. Ha ha. Thus environmentally the conditions surrounding my life are very much more relaxed than say, a stock-broker's in Frankfurt. These conditions are a good compromise between the absolute hermit/mountain dwelling devotion of a chinese daoist monk in the 14th century and the ruthless hustle of late modern capitalism. I am blessed to have the time and space to at least attempt to live a daoist lifestyle whilst participating in a system i simply must play ball with. I have attempted to gradually reduce outlandish desires and their many variations from my everyday life - noting the cumulative stilling of my being with each new reduction. Being a musician i have been able to observe first hand the folly of excessive ambition. I have observed many artists approach insanity as they over-estimate the happiness desire and ambition can bring - beautiful, creative people ultimately depressed and their soul destroyed when the industry fails to provide for them. Actually - that was ME fifteen years ago (without the beautiful bit). It was these experiences that pointed to the wisdom of rejecting ambition - of yielding , of just being content with simple acheivements - financial or artistic or personal. Just living a quiet, (as 'uncool as it might seem to those crazy nihilists i know) simple, self-contained life - in tune with the seasons, yielding to and neutralizing situations and people that try to stir this up, yet, as Jacksquat mentioned, including others/society/community in your environment - yielding-to to while one participates-with. To live in the Way as a city dwelling westerner one needs first an income/roof over ones head. So, i suppose - do what you gotta do. In some countries - welfare is available, in others - you better flip burgers or something. But make sure you can pay the rent. (I often think back to the 19th century with its aristocratic rich kids spending their days drugging and invoking demons - lucky lucky them). Second, one needs to actively reject/neutralize the ubiquitous and mind-numbingly repetitive barrage of multi-media advertisments, to not buy into their messages, to not let them aggravate ones passions, to be courageous enough to be happy with what one has - in a word:voluntary simplicity (VERY subversive). Third, one needs to monitor and be mindful of oneself, ones mind, thoughts, emotions, habits - to gently keep oneself in check. Observe the interplay of yin and yang in the world. Observe it in oneself. Join a tai chi group - there you may meet others like you. One needs to know the skills of re-using and recycling. One might grow ones own food.

As far as my 'success' with these methods is concerned - well - from when i discovered Daoism up to now, I have calmed down so much - my friends always tell me this ha ha, but of course i still have much to iron out. But i am only young and the path is lifelong. One must focus less on results and more on process - one of the main tenets of tai-chi. i think the thing may be to not actually give up ambition or effort . It is to make them real - aligned with nature - harmless and with longevity in mind.

One will find oneself more and more at odds with the modern capitalist agenda. daoist quietism, self-containment and wholism is absolutly anathema to it. If you live in one of the northern hemispheres great cities, maybe you could consider moving to the country, or to new zealand. ha ha.

So, for me, it took a brush with the madness of rock'n'roll and many horrible first hand experiences to teach me the futility of ambition. Ugly, plastic, unnatural human ambition.

[Marblehead]

Hi Awake0ness,

 

Okay. The passages that you quoted from the TTC speak to two concepts.

 

The first is contentment; the second is on being strong but flexible.

 

Being content with few or no external desires will allow you to respond to all external stimulus naturally without placing expectations of any externals.

 

Being strong and flexible will allow you to respond to those external stimulus to the best of your ability.

 

I agree that in the real world we must sometimes compete. And we should be aware of the fact that there are those who will take an unfair advantage any time they see the opportunity. We must therefore be prepared for such events. I think that being strong (in your case I am referring primarily to the strength of knowledge and the wisdom to properly use that strength) and flexible we can deflect or defeat most of our competition.

 

And then I suggest that once you become so strong and flexible that no one can defeat you you will no longer have to compete but you will be able to perform naturally leaving nothing undone.

 

Happy Trails!

[DalTheJigsaw123]

Beautiful!