So How does One Get Started?

[Prince...]

I've been reading the boards here since January, but honestly, I have no idea what a Tao Bum is or how to "be a Taoist." I am starting to wonder if I'm missing something or just completely nuking the entire process.

 

Anyway, I am learning Yang style Taiji. I do a Qigong set at least once a day, the 8 standing poses of Yiquan once a day, and practice the Grasp Sparrow's Tail set from the Yang style long form while trying to use reverse breathing until I get bored multiple times throughout the day. My friend says if I do some sitting meditation that it should be more than enough for any system's level 1.

 

I guess my biggest problem is, I don't really know what sitting meditation is. I dont understand what the focus should be...am I just sitting there, breathing and letting whatever is going to happen take place? I used to do this and had no problems until I started reading all sorts of nonsense saying close this, squeeze this muscle, breathe this way...sit that way.

 

So for all the people like me who have no teacher, but have way too many toys to play with...can someone help me trim the fat so that I can get started with my practice?

[Smile]

I guess my biggest problem is, I don't really know what sitting meditation is. I dont understand what the focus should be...am I just sitting there, breathing and letting whatever is going to happen take place? I used to do this and had no problems until I started reading all sorts of nonsense saying close this, squeeze this muscle, breathe this way...sit that way.

 

So for all the people like me who have no teacher, but have way too many toys to play with...can someone help me trim the fat so that I can get started with my practice?

The best free book I know that explains really well how to meditate is from Daniel Ingram. Get it here.

No BS - just what you need.

[JazZen]

The ultimate practice is very simple and profound.

Simply sit and watch your breath.

All that is will appear.

 

 

Everything else you read is extra.... in zen terms bla bla bla, some times needed for this and that.

 

Our egos also want more and more, so we read this and that. If we could master one simple practice we would attain the way.

 

 

 

For simple zen meditation instructions - http://mykunlun.com/blogs/buddhism/archive...n-practice.aspx

[Guest sykkelpump]

This is good: http://meditationexpert.com/ebok/howtomeditate.pdf

[Yoda]

And a tao bum is just someone who reads taobums.com every so often.

[Bum Grasshopper]

And a tao bum is just someone who reads taobums.com every so often.

 

 

Or someone who is obsessed with this board, makes it their home page, posts a hundred times a day, gets up in the middle of the night to see if anyone replied to their posts, buys any product that is posted here, tries any practice posted here, and goes to any seminar anyone here says is good.

[mYTHmAKER]

Anyway, I am learning Yang style Taiji. I do a Qigong set at least once a day, the 8 standing poses of Yiquan once a day, and practice the Grasp Sparrow's Tail set from the Yang style long form while trying to use reverse breathing until I get bored multiple times throughout the day. My friend says if I do some sitting meditation that it should be more than enough for any system's level 1.

 

So for all the people like me who have no teacher, but have way too many toys to play with...can someone help me trim the fat so that I can get started with my practice?

 

I wouldn't mess around with reverse breathing without a teacher, especially if you are just beginning.

Allow your breath to flow naturally without focusing on breathing. If you pay attention to your breath

you will notice when you extend, your breath moves out and when you contract, your breath moves in.

 

So you wanna be a Taoist.

Be natural don't force anything. Seek proper guidance

.

Edited July 1, 2008 by mYTHmAKER

[Prince...]

I wouldn't mess around with reverse breathing without a teacher, especially if you are just beginning.

Allow your breath to flow naturally without focusing on breathing. If you pay attention to your breath

you will notice when you extend, your breath moves out and when you contract, your breath moves in.

 

So you wanna be a Taoist.

Be natural don't force anything. Seek proper guidance

.

 

I only use reverse breathing on the stuff that I get instructed when to do it. Only certain parts like Grasp Sparrow's Tail or the Qigong set. When I do the form, I don't because I'm still learning the form. Of course, my teacher said at his teacher's school, you aren't taught Reverse Breathing until after the 1st year. He only showed it to me and one other guy, he says he is gonna wait on everyone else to see how serious they want to learn taiji.

 

As for my questions concerning meditation...I was self taught, initially, I just sat down, crossed my legs, and did deep breathing...it helped alleviate an illness that I have periodically. I guess I will just do what I was doing before I confused myself, although I'll keep reading just because it's something I enjoy doing.

 

I can't imagine I'd be doing anything wrong sitting and breathing until I find a teacher, right?

[Yoda]

Or someone who is obsessed with this board, makes it their home page, posts a hundred times a day, gets up in the middle of the night to see if anyone replied to their posts, buys any product that is posted here, tries any practice posted here, and goes to any seminar anyone here says is good.

 

Fortunately, I think only Cam and I are overboard along those lines but it has all turned out nicely in the end. I'm very grateful.

[joebob]

I agree with smile that Daniel Ingram is the best start for Vipassana meditation.

 

He has a 2 page basic instruction.

 

http://www.interactivebuddha.com/Insight%2...egal%20size.pdf

 

You can pm me and ill send you a good ebook also from the same meditation tradition.

[rookie]

For begining meditation practice I suggest "True Meditation" by Adyashanti....sounds true or the web page of his name.org. Allow everything to be as it is.

 

In the vein of taoism, there is the practice of "sitting and forgetting". Sit with an open (receptive) mind. Allow. Watch. The forgetting is forgetting the self, or self interest.

 

Forgetting self interest probably wont be very popular with most of the crowd here.

[cktan]

Simply sitting and watching your breath if you are beginner will calm your mind but progress will be slow.

If you are already into taiji quan and your qi is circulating then meditation is easy to pick up and will compliment your taiji quan ( considered also as meditation in movement). If your qi flow is good, simply sit comfortably, relax , free up all thoughts. Watch your breathe and you can also keep your awareness at your dan dien area. The qi will flow on its own.

 

If your qi points are still blocked, then it si best to find a master that can help you to open these qi points.

[de_paradise]

I went from meditation zero to meditation HERO with the stuff at www.meditationexpert.com. Plus theres always trends on this site, bums resonating their new findings from one to another. The trend lately is 3rd eye opening. See energy fields, auras, little blobs that might be your grandma! See it all and ACT NOW, because as the Buddha said, "Time is short."

[dao zhen]

Cleanse the Heart of All Desires and Passions

 

Disciplining the Heart --- much akin to preaching devotion and devoutness as do many schools of religions ---

is the process critical to the successful pursuit of Tao.

 

The heart, we all know, is accustomed to yielding to the reckless actions of multifarious thoughts.

 

So the process to rid oneself of stray thoughts, should proceed step by step, and the idea of rooting out all stray thoughts in an instant should be dropped.

 

Seat yourself in the posture like the many Buddha statues.

 

---the legs crossed and the fingers of two hands interlocked, let the tongue touch the roof of the mouth, teeth lightly touching, breathing gently and softly in and out of the nose ---

 

Compose your heart and purge it of all disorderly thoughts.

 

Then gently settle your Mind-Will in the Lower Elixir Field.

 

The Lower Elixir Field or the Lower Dantian (Tan Tien) is located in the empty space below the navel in the middle place between the kidney and navel -- a sphere of around 3.8 cm. Let the internal vision gaze upon that place; looking yet not looking.

 

That is to say, persistently rest your mind in this vague space, with no time spent on pondering over other things.

 

This is a gradual process.

 

You should be patient with its dullness at the beginning.

 

Only with both patience and persistence will you succeed.

 

After an appropriate length of time when your Heart has assumed equanimity,

it is the time for you to pay attention to inhaling and exhaling.

 

Knowing where the Lower Elixir Field is but not putting your full attention there merits the great reward.

 

Yet, settling the Mind-Will elsewhere is bound to bring about a great mistake.

 

In brief, you should transform the heart from Existence to Nonexistence in your mind, and empty and expand the Mind Realm to be more spacious and quiescent till all seems to have passed away.

 

To be free from any ideas and thoughts for a long time can bring about the state of No Dreams whatsoever emerging in your sleep; which indicates that the Congenital Mind-Will or Shen is in the process of coming on the scene.

 

If the heart is not disciplined enough, the Congenital Mind-Will or Shen shall always be unsettled and the Psychical Rays shall flicker continuously.

 

Similarly, if the stray thoughts have not been given up thoroughly, the passions will always be in the growth phase and the Life Force will still be subject to all temptations.

 

Only with your Mind-Will settling gently in the Lower Elixir Field, yet touching nothing at all, can the Heart become purer and purer.

 

To cleanse the heart of its addiction to stray thoughts, there exists another measure Sitting in Forgetfulness, which is advocated by Lao Tzi and Zhuang Tzi.

 

At the beginning, settle the Mind-Will in the Lower Elixir Field --- which was always compared by ancient men to the process of pouring fire into water, as the heart occupies the position of the Brightness Hexagram with the nature of the fire element while the kidney the position of the Dangerous Pit Hexagram with the nature of the water element. For a long time in this state a whiff of Yang Vita-Vapor will appear after "interaction" between the water and the fire.

 

Assume the Buddha-sitting posture, with the chest slightly drawn in and the back or the spine moderately upright, the head elevated so that the two eyes can see levelly forward, the shoulders relaxed, both eyes slightly closed and the tongue tip leisurely raised against the hard palate, you can regulate the acquired respiration by the way of slowing the rate of breathing to such an extent that you can feel nothing at all coming in or going out.

 

Certainly, this stage can be reached only through the long-term training.

 

The above-mentioned preparations, you know, should be carried out moderately lest some overdoing should bring about constraints and uneasiness.

 

The proper attitude should be to deal with them naturally and moderately and there should be no exertion in excess and no efforts in deficiency.

 

Generally speaking, the Heart operates in a constant style of permanently diffusing all sorts of ideas and thoughts and intentions --- speeding outwardly, in a word. However, in Disciplining Heart the operation fashion is utterly contrary to that of daily thinking, that is to say, reduce itself to Inward Stillness and Emptiness.

 

Reposing the Mind-Will gently in the region of the Lower Elixir Field and setting your eyes down inwardly upon the same region. Little by little slowing the breathing, you can perceive some minute changes have taken place in the region of the Lower Elixir Field as the time passes away --- initially, it is a black and opaque space, afterwards a slight light begins to flicker, then the darkness fades away by degrees and brightness fills up the space. After a period you can obtain the feeling that there seems to be a wave of warm Qi, which is slowly diffusing and then, of its own accord, it begins to be circling round the Lower Elixir Field. This is the time of the initial sprouting of the Yang Qi, and also of the Existence Arising from Nonexistence.

 

So in a persistent way you rest your Mind in the Lower Elixir Field, the breathing slowly begins to die out --- which in a way, resembles the quiet state of a tortoise or the winter sleep of a frog.

 

Of course, the Mind-Will should perch upon nothing, nor should one free them utterly to their own freedom --- which means that the Mind-Will seems to exist yet meanwhile to pass away. So with the flight of time the Mind-Will and the breathing will be more familiar with each other and later afterwards they begin to attach to each other, becoming one in a State of Unification of Heart-Mind and Breathing, and at last the Mysterious Pass begins to present itself.

 

- Combination of the Heart Mind and Breathing / Heart Mind Fasting -

 

~ Above taken from Eternal Way by Wayfarer Will to Learn Emptiness ~

[CosmoGeek]

Follow your instincts and forget the anus-squeezing stuff for now. Try (as others have suggested) some simple, practical Zen meditation. I felt that the following book by Suzuki was pretty good:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Zen-Mind-Beginners-S...5964&sr=1-2

 

I think this book will answer a lot of your questions about your frame of mind during mediation etc.

 

As for Taoism, check out the Seven Taoist Masters. Fun reading!

http://www.amazon.com/Seven-Taoist-Masters...6530&sr=1-2

Edited July 3, 2008 by CosmoGeek

[beancurdturtle]

So for all the people like me who have no teacher, but have way too many toys to play with...can someone help me trim the fat so that I can get started with my practice?

Try this: http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?s=&amp...ost&p=43598

 

Cleanse the Heart of All Desires and Passions

Why all the internalized gymnastics?

 

If the goal is to cleanse the heart of all desires and passions, why not just cleanse the heart of all desires and passions?

[dao zhen]

[beancurdturtle]

May I ask, is your Heart completely free of all desire, passion and stray thought?

My heart is in harmony with nature, accepting, and fully content. That is the goal, right? If not, then why the quest to rid your heart of all desire, passion and stray thought?

 

It is possible to have passion and contentment at the same time. It is possible to have thoughts and contentment at the same time. I don't think it's possible to have desire and contentment at the same time.

 

If you sit in meditation for one hour, are you in an unmoving state, completely free from all thought, idea and conception?

This is an unnatural state for a human being.

 

We use the same muscles to move as we do to remain unmoving - either requires an effort. "Unmoving" is an illusion of stillness.

 

We use the same meta-consciousness to clear our mind as we do to inspire thought - either requires an effort. You cannot be conscious of being without thought, and not have thought at the same time.

 

If it were that easy to just "do it"- Cleanse the Heart of all Desire and Passion - ,

then perhaps everyone would have their enlightenment and liberation;

yet to look around, most are being led around by their grasping mind, desires, passions, afflictions and sense organs.

I didn't say that it is easy, but it is possible. Yet everyone doesn't do it.

 

Because then they would be fully responsible for their lack of right actions and thoughts. It's much more convenient to conceive of it as being difficult, to invent proxies, excuses, and absolutions like god, the devil and religion.

 

Many say they may have obtained such a state - being free from stray thought and passion -

but put to the test, can they cross the legs and sit in an unmoving state for four hours;

nothing moving at all, like a stone statue, or a dead man still alive.......

I haven't heard many say they have obtained a state of being free from stray thought and passion, or of profound acceptance and contentment.

 

Regardless, how does crossing ones legs and sitting in an unmoving state for four hours prove that this someone is free from stray thought and passion?

 

Without a time tested method of practice, tested over many generations, then practice is really like feeling around in the complete dark without a map, no idea of the terrain to traverse, no idea of the pitfalls and dangers, no idea of the animals lurking in the wild, no ideas of the shortcuts, and no idea regarding the length of the journey.

You assume a practice is necessary. Achieving the goal of contentment, and right thoughts and actions, is possible without a practice.

 

Perhaps you know of a more effective practice method for a first time student?

 

Please share your experience and knowledge;

for this is the only way we may all grow and assist each other in this journey.

Groovy! I'd be happy to.

 

The first step is understanding the goal. That comes from study. Which is why I posted the link: http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showto...amp;#entry43598 which points to http://home.pages.at/onkellotus/Menu/VertikalVergleich.html

 

The second step is to actualize the understanding of the goal, in your life, through mindful living. Like this (cut and paste from something I wrote elsewhere):

To do it, we have to understand that we are creatures of habit, but not simply reactive creatures. Then we need a threshold of understanding of how to live in accordance with The Way so we can begin to change inappropriate habits and habitual responses. This takes the 24/7 vigilance of an internal coach, because doing it part-time only gets it partly done. As we practice and get better, as our sphere of sentience becomes more integrated and harmonized with our environment, then the internal coach can step aside.

 

One day, we finish a day and realize the coach never stepped in. Then the "Holy Cow!" realization springs to our head again. That's when we've stepped from living mindfully to actualization. Occasionally we will still need the coach to step in, and the coach should be on call 24/7. The realization here is knowing that our mind-energy can be directed and experienced in a completely different way then how we are taught.

 

For example, our reaction to stresses and stimulus is different. Stress doesn't translate directly to high blood pressure - instead, the cause is accepted, and the response is appropriate and tuned towards creating harmony. Insults or things that infuriated us before become humorous because we know that even our perception of self and everything is only perception and mostly irrelevant to here and now.

 

At the beginning, the Heart had its own nature composed of quietude and emptiness.

 

When material desires aggressively intrude themselves upon the pure region of the Heart, this pure nature begins to be disturbed and broken into pieces and later there is almost nothing left resembling the former qualities it was originally endowed with.

I agree with you here for the most part. But the pure nature is never broken. We only distance ourselves from it with the distractions you mention. Then the distractions become perceived as more important than the pure nature, like symptoms can be perceived as more important than a disease, and a practice can become perceived as more important than the goal.

 

There are two steps to actualizing a life of harmony, acceptance, and contentment.

1. Understanding what harmony, acceptance, and contentment is. You can learn this from the Dao de Jing and Zhuangzi.

2. Then actualize it through mindful living as described above. Eventually (after perhaps a few years) the mind steps aside, and you are there.

 

Peace,

Edited July 4, 2008 by beancurdturtle

[dao zhen]

[beancurdturtle]

The end goal is Union with Tao.

Please tell me your understanding of the meaning "Union with Tao." I assume it means something different in the understanding of your practice then it means to me.

 

By my understanding, we have no option. We are always in union with the dao. We can be out of harmony with the dao, through discontent, desire, etc. But we cannot escape the fact that we are manifest from the dao. Some people remain discontent, petty, fearful and grasping all their life. Eventually when they die the reality that they are in union with the dao becomes inescapable.

 

There is nothing I know of in the Dao de Jing that says the goal is union with the dao. There is much about being in harmony, living with acceptance, being impartial, and being benevolent. All these lead to harmony, balance, and contentment - so we can live a common life in conscious union with the dao.

 

I may question the necessity of your path, but I would never argue against the validity of your path. Though I have lots of experience with students of Taoist Internal Alchemy insisting that there is no such thing as philosophical daoism, and effecting an attitude of superiority and deeper wisdom.

 

I would like to say I am just a student of Taoist Internal Alchemy.

And I would say that I am a student of ancient daoism, or philosophical daoism by another western term. I actualize the philosophy of the Dao de Jing and Zuangzi in my life daily.

 

I am the beneficiary of "Taoist Internal Alchemy" when I go to my Chinese doctor. I have also studied the I Ching and read The Yellow Emperor's Classic of Medicine. I understand the concepts of Taoist Internal Alchemy.

 

I have been to religious daoist temples, and studied some of the concepts. I have close relatives who practice religious daoism and go to temple at least once every week.

 

And it is a simple fact that I need neither a daoist school or practice, or a daoist temple, to actualize the philosophy for living in the Dao de Jing. This does not mean that Taoist Internal Alchemy or daoist religion are not without profound value.

 

I like what you have said, and it seems you have a good and healthy outlook;

an outlook of a common person.

 

Common people perhaps seek to be content with the lot destiny has handed them.

Ah! here it is again. So is your brand of daoism superior to my common brand. Hehehe. Don't worry, you haven't offended me. I am used to this attitude - and in fact was surprised it took this long to manifest.

 

My friend, there is no other kind of person than a common person. I have the outlook of a common person who is a philosophical daoist.

 

Most common people seek to find reason for things they don't understand and fear, something to blame for what they see as failings in themselves or disappointment in their life, and some way to process and make sense of "why am I here." Hence the invention of all these comforting illusions, like god, religion, ritual, and some "practices."

 

Oddly enough, when a person actualizes harmony, living with acceptance, being impartial, and being benevolent, then misunderstanding, fear, blame, disappointment, and all these things have no more influence over them.

 

If you imagine yourself to be uncommon, you have fallen into a trap of the ego.

 

The outlook I take is one as a practitioner of Internal Alchemy.

 

We seek to Reverse the Course, and sail back to Union with Tao.

 

Perhaps you do not practice Internal Alchemy?

I know the outlook you take. I have participated in daoist practices in the past. It seems that you might have an inability to acknowledge that there is a way to be daoist other than through your school or practice.

 

It's become comical to me - like a fundamentalist Christian telling a Jew that the Jew will go to Hell unless they accept Christ as their Lord and Savior.

 

The student who started this thread asked about How to Practice Tao, or how to gain some experience of being a Taoist in regards to the correct practice of Seated Meditation.

Here is what I see to be the core question. "So How does One Get Started?" The student asked about meditation because they made the assumption that they needed a practice, or needed to learn to meditate more effectively.

 

My assertion is that the first thing a student should do is understand the core concepts of any subject they choose to study. The core concepts of daoism are in the Dao de Jing. If the student starts already assuming they need a practice, then there will be confusion - because there are so many schools and practices, and they all have ego and self righteousness to at least some extent.

 

So, trim the fat, get to the root. Read and understand the Dao de Jing. Then you will be prepared to recognize appropriate and valid schools or practices.

 

Peace,

 

I am a student in a lineage traditon, and there are formula passed down which have been practiced for many generations over thousands of years.

 

These are not my original ideas, methods of practice, or concepts.

 

Such tradition has charted exactly what takes place via the practice down to days, times, seasons, etc.

Dao de Jing - Chapter 38

上德不德，是以有德﹔

下德不失德，是以无德。

上德无为而无以为﹔

下德无为而有以为。

上仁为之而无以为﹔

上义为之而有以为。

上礼为之而莫之应，

 

则攘臂而扔之。

故失道而后德，失德而后仁，

 

失仁而后义，失义而后礼。

夫礼者，忠信之薄，而乱之首。

前识者，道之华，而愚之始。

 

是以大丈夫处其厚，不居其薄﹔

 

处其实，不居其华。故去彼取此。

 

Well established hierarchies are not easily uprooted;

Closely held beliefs are not easily released;

So ritual enthralls generation after generation.

 

Harmony does not care for harmony, and so is naturally attained;

But ritual is intent upon harmony, and so can not attain it.

 

Harmony neither acts nor reasons;

Love acts, but without reason;

Justice acts to serve reason;

But ritual acts to enforce reason.

 

When the Way is lost, there remains harmony;

When harmony is lost, there remains love;

When love is lost, there remains justice;

And when justice is lost, there remains ritual.

 

Ritual is the end of compassion and honesty,

The beginning of confusion;

Belief is a colourful hope or fear,

The beginning of folly.

 

The sage goes by harmony, not by hope;

He dwells in the fruit, not the flower;

He accepts substance, and ignores abstraction.

Edited July 5, 2008 by beancurdturtle

[dao zhen]

[dao zhen]

[seadog]

Thank You.I always look forward to reading your informative posts

[beancurdturtle]

After birth, we have been conditioned through Acquired Education, thus causing further separation from Tao and our True Nature.

 

By my experience we can not gain Union with Tao without first in the beginning stage to take some Acquired Action and practice the silent sitting.......

 

Yet without some experience with a real method of silent sitting, such a statement is seen as a lie and quite arrogant.

 

I am very sorry for this.

Why would you do something you are sorry for?

 

Are you sorry for being arrogant?

 

Are you sorry for being self righteous?

 

Are you sorry that, through the conditioning of your Acquired Education, your mind is so blinder bound by the teaching, dogma, and ritual of your school that you haven't the capacity to see - or even grant the possibility - of truth beyond it?

 

These questions are not meant to be confrontative. But they come to my mind as I wonder why a student of dao would make judgmental, superior, and unnecessary statements that they are sorry for making.

 

In any case, I do appreciate the translation and elucidation of DDJ chapter 38. Is it possible to find your school's translations for all chapters online or published. I think I would enjoy reading it, though it's quite complex for a new student of dao. Over 20 years of studying, I've probably read at least one translation for every year of study - so I understand what is expressed here.

 

Have a safe trip,

[beancurdturtle]

Hmmm yes.

 

I read it again. Very interesting translation.

 

I found the link to the book. I bought it.

 

Thank you,