Why Taoism is different

[witch]

what are your goals witch?

 

i found that chasing pleasure only reinforces the duality of pleasure and pain. why attach to pleasure when pain will knock you right back down? you will never be satisfied. my dog is a great example.. we spoiled him rotten and now all he lives for is food, hes never satisfied.. gobbles up all his food and always wants more. the only reason he ever jumps on your lap is if you have food.

 

so you don't believe in any spiritual stuff i'm guessing? 'you' were a mere accident because of the laws of the universe, a combination of atoms and energy, an animal driven by impulse and desire just trying to be happy and survive. so..death must scare you.

 

i found that chasing pleasure is only an avoidance of the inadequacy of the illusory ego. an inability to face the facts, get at the truth, and really figure out who you are in relation to this reality.

 

i'm glad i never felt such orgasmic bliss.. i'd never want to move on.

 

"chasing" pleasure? I have orgasms easy as breathing--pleasure chases me! I don't think that pleasure and pain make a duality. Pain is in the realm of Chiron--Chiron is not part of a duality. Pleasure is in the realm of Venus--Venus has a duality with Mars and Pluto. So the opposites of pleasure would be other people's pleasure, particularly giving other people pleasure, and also material action--competitive sports, violence, conquest--male action.

 

Sexually speaking the astrological pairs are

 

Mars/Venus

Mercury/Neptune

Sun/Moon

Eris/Pluto (Charon)

Jupiter/Ceres

Uranus/Saturn

 

Pain, Chiron, is on its own, it is the wanderer of the gods, the messenger of the gods. Chiron is the wounded healer. The opposite of pain isn't pleasure, the opposite of pain is healing, and this is the one realm where a person is not self-contained. Everyone has a Venus and Mars in their chart, but Chiron cannot heal itself, Chiron can only heal others. I have Chiron rising so pain and healing have a greater prominence in my life than most.

 

Satisfied...well, one eats every day and breathes every moment. Does that make those bad things? I would be satisfied with sex in the morning and sex at night in a relationship. After having a sixth chakra orgasm or a crown chakra orgasm I don't desire sex for several days afterwards. Also if my body is sick or I have just ovulated my libido drops. I don't see the problem there. I'm not in a relationship currently, so I have lots of orgasms on my own. It's good!

 

I haven't been scared of most things since I had a crown chakra orgasm. It's not as bad as it was--a little fear is good for the adrenaline. I knew something was off after I nearly got in a car accident and I was perfectly calm. That's not natural for a human being. Finally my responses are back to normal--my heart rate goes up in scary situations. But rationally speaking, I'm not afraid of death. I should qualify that--I am worried about death, I don't want to die until my girls are adults, for their sake. I also worry about losing my independence from poverty or ill health. All times are now, and I have achieved what I set out to do and have great comfort in shining moments that have happened. I am satisfied. There is one small thing I would still like to do, but that I don't want to hex, wouldn't be sportsmanlike. If it happens, it happens. If not, I will live and be happy.

 

I strive every day for balance. I think that might make me some kind of taoist, I'm not sure. With my chart, balance comes from incarnating Venus and Mercury. I am too spiritual and concerned with the hidden nature of things. It is better for me to concentrate on the material and the sensual and to be cheerful about it. That is the way to reach my goals, by doing the opposite of what one would think.

 

The one thing I'm genuinely scared of is a thawing of the permafrost leading to a sudden cataclysmic methane offgassing, causing the cessation of life on earth. This scares me very much. I suppose in the worst case we could seed the atmosphere with sulfur, like after a volcanic eruption. But we can only do that if we are paying attention. At least people are paying attention now.

[beancurdturtle]

"chasing" pleasure? I have orgasms easy as breathing--pleasure chases me!

In this way you are like my girlfriend. A touch with sexual every - almost anywhere or anytime - brings a quiver and a light moan. It's stunning, it's beautiful. And she's generous enough to give clumsy ol' me credit for it.

 

What you write is fascinating.

[exorcist_1699]

Sometimes even Science can be a blockade against us ; people are accustomed to thinking that all things are under the study of Science , and sooner or later , be solved by it ; they are entangled by its terms, its way of seeing phenomena , its means of handling things ; they can't imagine that the social relations and cultural environment around them can sometimes become so blinding .

 

For example, regarding how to solving the troublesome issue : aging , the western medical science forces people to look into the cell, or something they call it basic , something observable , something measurable , try finding what mechanism , what substance initiates the process ... , they never think that the jing-qi-shen framework coming from other culture , can be much more powerful in solving the issue.

[seadog]

Sometimes even Science can be a blockade against us ; people are accustomed to thinking that all things are under the study of Science , and sooner or later , be solved by it ; they are entangled by its terms, its way of seeing phenomena , its means of handling things ; they can't imagine that the social relations and cultural environment around them can sometimes become so blinding .

 

For example, regarding how to solving the troublesome issue : aging , the western medical science forces people to look into the cell, or something they call it basic , something observable , something measurable , try finding what mechanism , what substance initiates the process ... , they never think that the jing-qi-shen framework coming from other culture , can be much more powerful in solving the issue.

 

This is why we are lucky today, you can have it both ways.I believe the single biggest threat to tcm is that they often feel obligated to use western analitical frameworks to justify their means.Wrong wrong wrong.Taoist science in the boardest sense is a science beause it is CONSISTENT.Your not gonna find meridians or qi or jing or shen with a fucking microscope you are gonna find these phenomena bying apply the scentific principles set out over the years of exhaustive research.Namely acupuncture,herbal medicine and daoyin therapy.

I for one am thankful that today we have a number of different health models available to us and its our responsability to chose well.

 

Nobody is as victim unless they chose to be victim, be this by science or otherwise.Take what you need from whats around you and with a breath of kindess blow the rest away,believe me its much better then spending your life in gutter railing against the pricks

[coyote]

What we call science is a actually a blend of scientific method and a whole bunch of assumptions that have nothing to do with science that come from one trend in Greek thought. Science is about observation, experimentation, isolating variables, etc, whereas the western conceptual baggage is used to pose the questions, focus, and interpretation. Western science uses a fragmented empiricism that mostly looks at things in greater detail. This has its strength and weakness, namely losing sight of the big picture or system. The interpretation is generally assumed to be "objective" and universal. Both errors overlook the complexity of contexts: of either broader context or more specific contexts that vary case by case, and the context of the observor's bias and effect on the object. These prenicious errors are found at all levels of western thought and pratice in ways i began to describe in previous post.

 

The western tendency to separate and over-generalize has influneced TCM which is acutally not traditional but the Maoist reduced version with the spiritual connections thrown out. The real tradition is 5 Element Accupuncture which identifies constitutional types that are formed in part by karma. See books by Lonny Jarrett and Peter Eckman following in the tradition of Worsley. This type puts more emphasis on the special 8 meridians more operative in the formation of the fetus and thus the connection to the before-life. This is considered a deeper cause of other merdian imbalances. People trained in China are now mainly the Maoist reduced TQM, whereas the real traditions survived in Japan and other places. Eckman studied in many other countries.

 

Very well said about not "standing in a gutter railing against pricks!"

 

 

"This is why we are lucky today, you can have it both ways.I believe the single biggest threat to tcm is that they often feel obligated to use western analitical frameworks to justify their means.Wrong wrong wrong.Taoist science in the boardest sense is a science beause it is CONSISTENT.Your not gonna find meridians or qi or jing or shen with a fucking microscope you are gonna find these phenomena bying apply the scentific principles set out over the years of exhaustive research.Namely acupuncture,herbal medicine and daoyin therapy.

I for one am thankful that today we have a number of different health models available to us and its our responsability to chose well.

 

Nobody is as victim unless they chose to be victim, be this by science or otherwise.Take what you need from whats around you and with a breath of kindess blow the rest away,believe me its much better then spending your life in gutter railing against the pricks"

 

Very well said!

[Taomeow]

This is why we are lucky today, you can have it both ways.I believe the single biggest threat to tcm is that they often feel obligated to use western analitical frameworks to justify their means.Wrong wrong wrong.Taoist science in the boardest sense is a science beause it is CONSISTENT.Your not gonna find meridians or qi or jing or shen with a fucking microscope you are gonna find these phenomena bying apply the scentific principles set out over the years of exhaustive research.Namely acupuncture,herbal medicine and daoyin therapy.

I for one am thankful that today we have a number of different health models available to us and its our responsability to chose well.

 

Nobody is as victim unless they chose to be victim, be this by science or otherwise.Take what you need from whats around you and with a breath of kindess blow the rest away,believe me its much better then spending your life in gutter railing against the pricks

Seadog, it might surprise you that you are on the same page with Mao Zedong, who decreed exactly this approach to medicine using exactly this reasoning. The famous Mao quote that made modern Chinese medicine a non-committed affair it is today goes, "We don't care if it's a black cat or a white cat as long as he catches mice."

 

One problem with this approach is, if our biomechanical fundamentalism is the "white cat," and our politics of science are in the paws of other fat white cats, they invariably make sure that the goal of our medicine is to provide mice for the cat who catches them, to feed the cat and make him fatter and fatter, rather than to protect the population from the mice. That's why the number of diseases, which was more or less a constant number for thousands of years, doubles every decade in the PDR. We invent more and more mice to keep the white cat busy. We supply new kinds of mice to keep him happy. If the cat was efficient at its task, surely there would be fewer and fewer mice, not more and more? Yeah, but efficient for whom, one might ask. With fewer "mice," chronic diseases, the population would be healthier, but the white cat would starve?..

So why not design medicine around the appetite of the cat, the way ours is designed, and why not design science around providing more and more mice to catch, the way ours is designed? In the meantime, the black cat, the traditionalist of real medicine, who is still as great at catching traditional non-GM mice as he's ever been, sees that he's lean as ever while the white cat is growing fatter and fatter, and so he abandons his ways and starts imitating the white cat, quietly promoting the "give us more mice!" scientific agenda. So now we might have two cats who catch mice the modern way -- and a belief that we're fine and lucky to have both. In reality, we have neither. THEY have US.

[YMWong]

Seadog, it might surprise you that you are on the same page with Mao Zedong, who decreed exactly this approach to medicine using exactly this reasoning. The famous Mao quote that made modern Chinese medicine a non-committed affair it is today goes, "We don't care if it's a black cat or a white cat as long as he catches mice."

 

This quote is from Deng Xiaoping and not Mao Zedong, and it was not related to Chinese Medicine AFAIK but about the early debate on "capitalism or socialism".

 

The "black cat, white cat" is a popular story in Sichuan and has been used by many public people in China but has become prominent because of Deng.

 

YM

Edited July 6, 2008 by YMWong

[Taomeow]

This quote is from Deng Xiaoping and not Mao Zedong, and it was not related to Chinese Medicine AFAIK but about the early debate on "capitalism or socialism".

 

The "black cat, white cat" is a popular story in Sichuan and has been used by many public people in China but has become prominent because of Deng.

 

YM

Your source is mistaken or mine -- or else they both used it and neither is mistaken -- what's yours? Mine is Alternative Medicine journal circa 2003, the quote was used in an article about the treatment of leukemia in China with a combo of Western chemo and TCM herbs (and medicinal toxins like arsenic, a compound of realgar, a TCM staple for "fighting poison with poison.") A Chinese Western/TCM doctor showed it to me, one Raymond Chang, MD, in NYC, and commented on the whole issue extensively.

Edited July 6, 2008 by Taomeow

[YMWong]

Your source is mistaken or mine -- or else they both used it and neither is mistaken -- what's yours? Mine is Alternative Medicine journal circa 2003, the quote was used in an article about the treatment of leukemia in China with a combo of Western chemo and TCM herbs (and medicinal toxins like arsenic, a compound of realgar, a TCM staple for "fighting poison with poison.") A Chinese Western/TCM doctor showed it to me, one Raymond Chang, MD, in NYC, and commented on the whole issue extensively.

 

Dear TM,

 

the sentence is a popular one, as I said, so I cannot exclude it was used to convey your meaning about Chinese Med vs. Western Med.

 

Any student of modern chinese history, however, would tell you that it was pronounced by Deng Xiaoping in 1962 at a meeting for the resourgence of agriculture.

 

Then ANY chinese person would explain that he used it again, and from THERE it became popular, in his last trip to Shenzhen and Zhuhai in 1992, where he went to see the results of his openings.

I can't remember the 1962 occurence as I wasn't born yet but I recall vividly his 1992 speech.

 

I am sure if you browse the web you'll find plenty of references.

 

YM

 

EDIT

 

 

"But then Deng, a thoroughgoing pragmatist, has never been much for labels. His most celebrated saying is a homely metaphor to the effect that it does not matter whether a cat is black or white so long as it catches mice. "

 

http://www.time.com/time/subscriber/person...ories/1985.html

Edited July 6, 2008 by YMWong

[seadog]

Well I don't care who said what or when,your point is a valid one Taomeow and I understand the pitfalls of disease based model for health and the liabilities and profits that can be garnered from such a mind set.

Regardless of the modality thats used.

Still The cultural elitism of captilaistic western medicine (now I'am really starting to sound like chairman Mao)

Which has as its foundation "Prove it,but only use the tools we agree to and in a language we understand"undermines the foundation of tcm.

The proof of validity is in consistency i.e it works.What is in dispute,the bigger picture as it were,is how reality is interpertated.

[exorcist_1699]

Because TCM's (Traditional Chinese Medicine's )roots is in Taoism, as long as Taoism exists, TCM will persist; similarly, as long as qi really exists, Acupuncture as a method of healing will never perish.

 

The difference is : TCM is a medicine which mainly pays attention to the healing of people's diseases while Taoism is a dose for individual emancipation .Although in most cases only a small group of people are resolute to take it,the preaching of it is Taoist's responsibility .

 

Taoism persists because there are great works like Lao Tzu, Chuang Tzu, Yin Fu Jin...(sadly only part of them are translated into English) , and those Taoist masters who, despite of all political upheavals , devastating wars, natural disasters ..., keep coming in human history whenever the times they find suitable for preaching Taoist truth .

Edited July 8, 2008 by exorcist_1699

[exorcist_1699]

Skipping jing and qi means that Buddhist masters can only make use of shen (spirit) as the arena and point of cutting in, try leading people from there towards its end: Enlightenment .However, the hope of bringing up our daily mind , a mind so trivial , always-in-trouble ,making it into a great MIND , an omnipotent MIND , is really difficult and it experiences severe challenge in modern society.

 

The followings are some of the methods:

 

1) Analyze the stream of our consciousness , chopping it into a past mind, present mind, future mind, and ask : After the end of the past mind, and before the rise of the present mind , what mind we have...

 

2) Read aloud repeatedly the texts of some Buddhist classics , ten or even hundreds times a day, even in dreaming ,until an state of mindlessness attained..

 

3) Pay attention to our breath and think about the upheaval of breathing's effect on our mind...

 

4) Analyze our mind's relation with its environment, try finding out causes which generate our sufferings and annoyances, and ask : If l want to get a peaceful mind , what should be got rid of : the causes/status or the mind itself ? Or,both? Since causes of annoyances in our life keep coming up , try getting rid of them seems futile ....if there is no mind, to where the annoyances can cling ?

 

5) Zen's methods: asking strange questions such as : when you neither think of evil nor good, what kind of mind you have ? Or, looking into "silly " cases, say : " In case a cow-cart not moving, which one should you hit , the cow or the cart?"

Edited July 8, 2008 by exorcist_1699

[mantis]

i think taoism is perfect for our time period, it allows you to cultivate while still being a functional part of society.

[SFJane]

Nobody is as victim unless they chose to be victim, be this by science or otherwise.Take what you need from whats around you and with a breath of kindess blow the rest away,believe me its much better then spending your life in gutter railing against the pricks

 

 

Not to seriously hijack the thread or to focus fire on you seadog but no one else saw that as problematic?

 

"Nobody is as victim unless they chose to be victim"

 

Wellll...how about you tell that a newborn who is in a coma after being slammed on the ground in a fit of rage by mommy or daddy?

 

How about the empathic twins sisters that get torn apart by social workers and sent to different foster homes because of a pissing match between CPS, family court and the parents?

 

What about the wheel chair bound senior citizen being financially destroyed by her live in home nurse and care taker who is using up her credit cards?

 

What about the young Iraqi boy that loses his hand because daddy was screwing around with IEDs in the garage and then the boy loses his whole family and house to two 500 lb bombs dropped by an f-16?

 

What about old gramps going into McDonalds only to be sucker punched and robbed by one of the locals pretending to be a customer?

 

What about the young teenaged women in Mormon communites being given to their father's brother and impregnated at age 15?

 

What about the kids Andrea Yates drowned?

 

What about all the kids being abused by their parents, by their extended family, their caregivers and so on?

 

Are you really quite sure about your statement seadog? Do people really choose to be victims or does sometimes shit happen and you become a victim whether you wanted to or not?

 

Is there such a thing as being helpless, vulnerable and being harmed by the deliberate actions of another or does that just never happen?

 

Is it ego that makes one think one becomes a victim only voluntarily?

 

Sure, makes total sense.

Edited July 7, 2008 by SFJane

[exorcist_1699]

Buddhists and Taoists are like two different groups of people who try to climb up a very ,very high mountain from its different slopes by using different methods . To those who , seeing the height and steepness of the mountain , stay at the bottom and never climb , or climb to the middle of the mountain but unable to proceed , will argue among themselves or with other group about what the scenery they see on their way , the correct methods of climbing , and the possible view on the top of the mountain....

 

However, to those who have already reached the top or near top, and , have got the overlooking panorama , any further arguments seem not necessary .

Edited July 8, 2008 by exorcist_1699

[Cameron]

Taoism is vast, so hard to really answer. If I had to boil it down from what I have read and experienced is the Tao is the watercourse way. The path of least resistence and going with the flow of life rather than fighting against.

 

Though simplistic if I was to boil it down the Taoist teachers I have met basically say the same thing. Go with the flow, be happy, maybe become enlightened or a xien(immortal)if that's your destiny or karma. Otherwise, basically enjoy yourself, follow the Tao.

 

A Taoist teacher I met recently described it in terms of Wu Wei(non doing) and Yu Wei(doing). Most people are always doing,doing,doing and also with a sense of self and striving. Taoists goal is Wu Wei, like the Master Chef who cuts fish without thinking about it. Or the martial arts master who executes flawless techniqes and forms without thinking.

 

Of course then you have qigong,alchemy,shamanism etc which go back probably to the roots of Taoism. And you have different schools. But still, I think the basic philosophy is the same or similar.

[seadog]

Tell me Jane who has not suffered in this life? I have read your posts and the pain that you exprienced.Through your own tenacity and integrity you found healing and balance in your life.You yourself have stated that it was up to you to find your way out of the darkness,that your healing was essentially up to you.

Tell me can one acheive wholeness if they do not forgive,if they continue to place blame,if they see themselves as a victim?

What about the young gazelle that is eaten alive by lions

What about the possoum that dies a slow death from tic bites

What about the child in west Africa who goes blind from a small worm that has burrowed into his head?

Are They victims?

Show me who or what that has not suffered in this life.

Are we victims only when we believe we are victims?

[sheng zhen]

Tell me Jane who has not suffered in this life? I have read your posts and the pain that you exprienced.Through your own tenacity and integrity you found healing and balance in your life.You yourself have stated that it was up to you to find your way out of the darkness,that your healing was essentially up to you.

Tell me can one acheive wholeness if they do not forgive,if they continue to place blame,if they see themselves as a victim?

What about the young gazelle that is eaten alive by lions

What about the possoum that dies a slow death from tic bites

What about the child in west Africa who goes blind from a small worm that has burrowed into his head?

Are They victims?

Show me who or what that has not suffered in this life.

Are we victims only when we believe we are victims?

very interesting topic!

 

I would say it like this: If you do not choose 100 % responsibility for your own life, you choose NOT TO BE responsible, meaning you choose to be a victim to some degree.

 

If you choose 100 % responsibility, that 100 % is not negotiable to 99,98 %. Not 99, 99999% either. 100 % is 100 % on all levels of existence. That includes karma.

[xenolith]

very interesting topic!

 

I would say it like this: If you do not choose 100 % responsibility for your own life, you choose NOT TO BE responsible, meaning you choose to be a victim to some degree.

 

If you choose 100 % responsibility, that 100 % is not negotiable to 99,98 %. Not 99, 99999% either. 100 % is 100 % on all levels of existence. That includes karma.

Very well said. Spiritual evolution is not possible until one has exercised their (free) will by embracing their karma. Understand, the greater the karmic debt paid...and the only currency is suffering...the greater is the liberation of the spirit from it's karmic bonds. A liberated spirit is an evolving one. Therefore, know that great suffering is a great blessing. This the Siddhas knew. Some sought it out in order to more enable their spirit's evolution. Again of their own free will. Advise simply to embrace your suffering...and smile in the knowledge that you are...well upon your path.

[CosmoGeek]

Sometimes even Science can be a blockade against us ; people are accustomed to thinking that all things are under the study of Science , and sooner or later , be solved by it ; they are entangled by its terms, its way of seeing phenomena , its means of handling things ; they can't imagine that the social relations and cultural environment around them can sometimes become so blinding .

 

Exactly. Richard Dawkins comes to mind as I read this. It's amazing the number of Scientists who seem to think that Nature follows the rules that we make up for it! Of course, something similar is also probably true for other systems of thought, including Taoism.

 

What we call science is a actually a blend of scientific method and a whole bunch of assumptions that have nothing to do with science that come from one trend in Greek thought. Science is about observation, experimentation, isolating variables, etc, whereas the western conceptual baggage is used to pose the questions, focus, and interpretation. Western science uses a fragmented empiricism that mostly looks at things in greater detail. This has its strength and weakness, namely losing sight of the big picture or system. The interpretation is generally assumed to be "objective" and universal. Both errors overlook the complexity of contexts: of either broader context or more specific contexts that vary case by case, and the context of the observor's bias and effect on the object. These prenicious errors are found at all levels of western thought and pratice in ways i began to describe in previous post.

 

What you speak of, I would call the "reductionist" point of view. This is the most prevalent POV in Western science, and is responsible for most of our modern technology. There is also a trend toward more "holistic" systems approaches in Western Science, directly or indirectly influenced by Taoist thought.

[exorcist_1699]

As I explained in previous posts that Taoism is a system in many respects so different from Science ,people should not expect that by means of science , they can grasp the essence of Taoism ; insist on doing so will only belittle Taoism .

 

It is also the reason why with so many advanced technology at hands nowadays ,up to this moment , we still can't fully understand the secret of the meridian system .

 

If there are different types of intelligence in this universe , then Science and Taoism are just subsets of that category ; for Science , it is futile trying to analyze another arena with so different characteristics .

 

For example ,in case of Science ,we can't affect external objects directly by our mind; right in the middle , there always exist some things : our hands , wire , apparatus, magnetic field , a series of things.... ; our mind , precisely speaking , only affects outside world indirectly ; in case of Taoism , everything is qi in different forms , at different levels, which enables the possibility of our spirit (shen) interfere objects directly.

Edited July 9, 2008 by exorcist_1699

[Wayfarer64]

Thank you Sean for inviring me to enter this thread-

 

For me Taoism is different from other belief systems, because it directs me to question my place in the world day by day with the expectation of change being constant -(and a good thing too)..

 

I do not see how we cam say there is a new and an old Taoism. It is a changing system to some extent in that there is room for growth, indeed a demand for change and growth is called for from an adherant to the pracrices.

 

Belief is aptly demeened and actuallity is summond forth, not dogma or catachism nor rationality alone, science was unknown as such when Taoism was developed, it does use observation to form insight through the leared knowledge gained through practice and harmomious living etc...

 

The YiJing itenders a way of wisdom with a direct mechanism to share the moment's portent and potential. What more could ya ask from a spiritual/philisophical system? I must actually participate and add my energy to get a result and hopefully find a way thru to my future's gifts and pit falls...

 

peace -Pat

Edited August 3, 2008 by sean

[林愛偉]

Too much attachment to Daoism and Buddhism; this is this and that is that...this is better because, and that isn't because...

 

the truth is, it doesn't matter at all. Daoism or Buddhism, the only problem is the mind cultivating through the views attached to the WORD Daoism and Buddhism.

 

Both are complete methods of cultivation. THe mind determines which one gets you to the ultimate gaol of Complete and Pure Enlightenment. Daoism doesn't speak of it, Buddhism does. Buddhism doesn't speak of Qi and these things , Daoism does. It doesn't mean Buddhism is incomplete. It just means Buddhism's education doesn't need to focus on the energetic process to gain freedom from birth and death.

Daoism focuses on the function, body more, and this just takes a bit longer to attain enlightenment because of the attachment in views of form and bliss states, feelings and emotions, an I, an ego.

 

Doesn't mean Daoism is incomplete, only that there is its specific methods for its specific goals.

 

All of this; Buddhism is this and Daoism is that, points right and directly to the duality in the mind of us all.

 

Obviously, there is no stillness in our minds here, even with all this "entering the void" talk and stillness in mind and motion and blah blah blah.. cultivate more. This thread is redundant and full of false thoughts.

 

Then again, all of what I have written are false thoughts as well.. hahaha

 

Enjoy

 

Peace and Blessings,

Lin

[Stigweard]

Daoism focuses on the function, body more, and this just takes a bit longer to attain enlightenment because of the attachment in views of form and bliss states, feelings and emotions, an I, an ego.

 

 

 

LOL Lin ...

 

An unintentional oxymoron I believe ~.^ To make such a comparison is dualistic preferential thinking perhaps. *shrug*

 

Science though ... ah there's the rub.

 

I believe that the word science has been bandied about in so many ways that the word has lost some of its significance. My use of the word science will and does differ from others on this board. This is because, in my view, Taoism is perhaps the ultimate science. It is a aeons old tradition of natural philosophers who have, through empirical observation and repeatable experimentation, examined the very essence of Universal life.

 

The fundametal difference is perhaps that, instead of the 'taking apart' methodology of rational scientific process that places the observer in a position of abstract seperativeness, the Taoist Scientist embarks upon a path of unification which integrates themselves as an interdependent element of the whole.

 

Some may and do argue that there is no such thing as a subjective science, that all scientific endeavours must be objective. I honestly cannot say. I do know however that the Taoist experimental methodologies (qigong, daoin, taiqiquan, etc) are repeatable by independent practitioners wherein they can obtain their own practical, direct, though albeit subjective, verifications of Taoist theoretic models.

Edited July 28, 2008 by Stigweard

[Hua Dao]

For a possibly better understanding of women it should be noted that while 'jing' in men resides in the semen and is lost with ejaculation, the 'jing' in a women resides in the blood and is only lost once a month, while men can lose it any time they want. For that reason women will have a hard time understanding or even getting a feel of what loss of jing is. They will benefit from luowang meditation as it is calming the 'hun' spirit which will calm the liver in turn and result in less congestion and blood loss. The equalizer though is that after menopause women will start losing jing in the same manner as a man, which is the reason for so many health problems afterward.