David Verdesi

[Neikung]

Regarding the tesla coils.

It would be very interesting and helpful to gather some information here on how it is done to prevent people from getting fooled, often for large amounts of money.

For example would the fake qi master need to have anything in his hand or connection to his hands?

You already said neikung that the fake qi i.e. electricity is unpleasant and thus won't be applied for a longer time or it would be painful whereas real qi wouldn't be.

I wonder if anyone has come across the situation that the person receiving the qi treatment would have to stand on a wet towel. If so, what is the explanation for that? Would it indicate fraud?

How big are the tesla coils? Would the fraud have to wear special shoes?

It is not clear how the tesla coils are made but if they are hidden in the shoes, they presumably need to be worn at all time. Here is a diagram from someone on the web playing around with electrical shoes: http://afrotechmods.com/cheap/negativeiong...r/pikashoe7.htm

 

Here is also a news article about two fake monks who claimed to be healers with electrical-like qigong power. They were caught by police and found to wear special shoes to generate the so called "qi" : http://www.cnhubei.com/aa/ca77307.htm It is written in Chinese.

 

Here is a rough translation of several sentences from the article:

"In Jingmen city (Hubei province) at a farmer market, two men claiming to be from the Songshan Shaolin Temple were performing "healing" with their electrical Qi. However, when they showed their fake Shaolin papers, someone became suspicious and called the police. The police found one of the monks wore special shoe in his right foot. The shoe has a hole with a few thin wires. The man confessed and said that the shoes were powered by a battery. When the shoe was gently touched by his foot, his whole body will produce weak current. Their patient would then feel the magic of electric "qi" shock and became convinced of his "magical" treatment. In a few days, these monks were able to rip people off with thousands of yuan"

[h.uriahr]

Drew, you really have some remarkable posts sometimes.

[Chen]

As it concerns the "elecric-chi" abillities of Verdesi really I don't know but Iam very curious to meet him just once to see if it feels the same as J.C's .

I have no doupt that Chang's is for real ,also the abillity to set fire on paper it is real.

J.C,normally was wearring thin open sleepers and time per time was healing barefoot very light dressed and with no tension to hide everything. He just have the power.

The chi prodused by level 2 or level 3 students were also undertandable but had a differend felt.

For dissbeleivers there is smthng to say that a lot of us are forgetting.

The days that J.C,had already deployed his power the electronic science hardly had discovered the tranzistors.

It's no problem to cheat with today technology ,but this days you had to carrie a closet of apparatus to create effects.

I dont know if its permitted to descripe you one anecdote case, that J.C set on fire a piece of paper in front of me and others but its to personal and I dont't want to start another round of threads .

I use to be an electronic engineer student for three years and at least I had a basic idea to understand the difference from an electric current created by a capasitor and the feeling of "smthng"else .

As It concerns Verdesi,once more I have the opinion that if he has any power it is not similar with J.C's.

[enouch]

As it concerns the "elecric-chi" abillities of Verdesi really I don't know but Iam very curious to meet him just once to see if it feels the same as J.C's .

I have no doupt that Chang's is for real ,also the abillity to set fire on paper it is real.

J.C,normally was wearring thin open sleepers and time per time was healing barefoot very light dressed and with no tension to hide everything. He just have the power.

The chi prodused by level 2 or level 3 students were also undertandable but had a differend felt.

For dissbeleivers there is smthng to say that a lot of us are forgetting.

The days that J.C,had already deployed his power the electronic science hardly had discovered the tranzistors.

It's no problem to cheat with today technology ,but this days you had to carrie a closet of apparatus to create effects.

I dont know if its permitted to descripe you one anecdote case, that J.C set on fire a piece of paper in front of me and others but its to personal and I dont't want to start another round of threads .

I use to be an electronic engineer student for three years and at least I had a basic idea to understand the difference from an electric current created by a capasitor and the feeling of "smthng"else .

As It concerns Verdesi,once more I have the opinion that if he has any power it is not similar with J.C's.

 

 

 

 

 

Please, share your experience! This is important for historical reasons and it helps to build faith[or truth in what's possible] I liken it to meeting a prophet or alien.For every John Chang there are a million fakers! So please share.

[Neikung]

It isn't in the Daily Apple but in the posts dealing with Sean Denty.It would take some time to go through all those posts-originally took me several hours.Maybe I'll do it...maybe not.I read through all post related to Sean Denty ,David Verdesi and MJJ Becker.Becker has deleted most of his posts.Just trying to be fare to Denty though, since I didn't catch him in a bold face lie.Perhaps he exaggerated or made wild claims based on what he was told but there is a lot of honesty in what he communicated.Also a lot of first hand data to be gleaned.He still stands by David on some level based on his recent posts,he also stands by Liping based on his recommendation of Kathy Li...or he's playing both sides ofthe field.

 

I did remember reading the Seandenty's explanation a while ago...I am sure that Sean was telling the truth of what he saw/read but I just wasn't satisfied with Jiang's explanation. I re-read the link again. Here is what Sean wrote: "I also read the letter of apology from the student who started the whole thing and he clearly states that the article is a fabrication. He was upset with Jiang because he wasn't getting to learn the methods as fast as he would have liked and because Jiang showed him how to train in the Xiao Dao, a lower order training done with tesla coils.... Such devices cannot generate visible light from your naked hands..."

 

Please note that Seandenty seems to confirm the existence of devices with tesla coils. May be Jiang has real power but he or his students clearly used/knew of devices that can generate electricity. I also expect a real retraction would be published in the original newspaper, not just by showing a private letter.

 

At any case, may be Jiang has power but one thing for sure, he is there to make money, sometime in a dubious way (like the blog that was pointed out by genmaicha). Unfortunately, this makes him suspicious in my opinion.

[r.w.smith]

Some more complaints about Jiang below.

 

http://translate.google.com.au/translate?h...%2522%26hl%3Den

 

 

Too many complaints for my liking,Wheres there smoke theres fire.

[enouch]

Some more complaints about Jiang below.

 

http://translate.google.com.au/translate?h...%2522%26hl%3Den

Too many complaints for my liking,Wheres there smoke theres fire.

 

 

 

 

 

Well,it's better to be safe than sorry! I wish Denty would add his input yet I also realize nothing really can be gained[from his perspective] from such interactions.People who are famous or known will generally suffer attacks or someone will get offended.True power is best left concealed!Even John Chang might agree with that.

[ramus]

Edited December 13, 2009 by ramus

[YMWong]

I re-read the link again. Here is what Sean wrote: "I also read the letter of apology from the student who started the whole thing and he clearly states that the article is a fabrication. He was upset with Jiang because he wasn't getting to learn the methods as fast as he would have liked and because Jiang showed him how to train in the Xiao Dao, a lower order training done with tesla coils.... Such devices cannot generate visible light from your naked hands..."

 

Please note that Seandenty seems to confirm the existence of devices with tesla coils. May be Jiang has real power but he or his students clearly used/knew of devices that can generate electricity. I also expect a real retraction would be published in the original newspaper, not just by showing a private letter.

 

So SD can read chinese ?

 

Or maybe a chinese person wrote an ENGLISH reply to a chinese article about a chinese master ?

 

 

YM

[Vajrasattva]

 

Verdesi's new focus on nondual consciousness as enlightenment is a good thing. People ask -- but can he sit in full-lotus? John Chang relies on full-lotus as does Chunyi Lin and Jim Nance -- in fact REAL qigong masters can sit in full-lotus as long as they want. That's a very simple way to tell if someone is real

 

 

 

Not true...

Edited October 13, 2009 by Vajrasattva

[voidisyinyang]

True -- Not True! More left-brain DIGITAL LOGIC please! haha.

 

Yes -- No -- Yes -- True -- Not True

 

Right -- Wrong!

 

haha.

 

PLEASE -- more fun.

 

How silly the modern male psyche is!

[Vajrasattva]

Real Chi Kung/Nei Kung and the ability to master it is Not dependent on Lotus Pose.

[voidisyinyang]

It's true that "some" of us are TOO GOOD for the full-lotus while others admit they can barely sit in it. Which is it -- the two are not mutually exclusive! haha.

[Vajrahridaya]

True -- Not True! More left-brain DIGITAL LOGIC please! haha.

 

Yes -- No -- Yes -- True -- Not True

 

Right -- Wrong!

 

haha.

 

PLEASE -- more fun.

 

How silly the modern male psyche is!

 

So... your a new age anti-intellectual, pro "all is one" mushy thinking male with no depth of insight. Take that!

 

Get a grip. Have a dialog instead of patronizing everyone for expressing thoughts on a conversation board.

 

This anti-rational anti-logic spirituality of yours is not reflective of clarity.

 

It's true that "some" of us are TOO GOOD for the full-lotus while others admit they can barely sit in it. Which is it -- the two are not mutually exclusive! haha.

 

Also, if you want someone to take you seriously, stop the "haha" after every sentence, it's condescending or patronizing in tone.

 

p.s. I think your quite smart and educated, but you make a lot of assumptions. Many of them I used to make when I first started practicing. I also used to think that full lotus was entirely necessary for enlightenment and the true test of a real master. But, I later realized that this view lacked real insight. It's true that the full lotus activates the body and energy and balances, clearing nadi's. But, there are other ways to do this that are actually subtler.

 

So, going around telling people that they suck because they don't do many hours of full lotus per day is not reflective of a real and concrete truth. It's merely your own assumption based upon what you've been exposed to so far, experientially and informationally.

Edited October 13, 2009 by Vajrahridaya

[Chen]

Full lotus it's just a tool. A strong one, but there are many methods that can guide you to the path.

[Vajrasattva]

Full lotus it's just a tool. A strong one, but there are many methods that can guide you to the path.

 

Very True Chen.

[Vajrasattva]

It's true that "some" of us are TOO GOOD for the full-lotus while others admit they can barely sit in it. Which is it -- the two are not mutually exclusive! haha.

 

 

We have been through this before you and I Drew...

 

And I will say it again LOTUS POSE is not needed.

 

Its just an "ASANA" .

 

Once you know how to run energy & Keep the Spine Suspended and how to Transmute/Sublimate Energy

 

You can work from ANY POSE/ASANA.

 

The REAL lotus you need to worry about is the HEART LOTUS.

 

The Physical Posture is just that.....a POSTURE. A way to reroute energy in your body and a way to come in resonance with a certain "Gesture".

 

Yes it does activate Ajna Chakra & it does help the Yogin Transmute energy up to the 3rd eye. But If you are a REAL MASTER... You can do that in any POSE. And truth be told there are MANY postures that can do this for you.

 

Lotus is NOT considered the "King" of asanas in ancient Tantric texts.

 

More power to you if you still feel the need to sit in it.

 

 

Peace

 

Santiago

[joeblast]

So what is considered king? Or is there one? I've definitely noticed qualitative differences while in lotus, although I'm not able to sit for long.

[宁]

i feel drew is right.

although it's obvious that many traditions that had great masters who didn't do the lotus pose.

still, to westerners, no effort is too much, because westerners are used to get it quick and easy.

from that standpoint, i think lotus pose is very much needed.

in fact any sadhana that is arduous and requires much effort...

you can't buy jhana's at the supermarket, with a coin. jhana-o-mat. haha.

 

L1

[voidisyinyang]

The "jhana-o-mat"! haha.

 

Why do I type "haha" all the time? We'll because I'M LAUGHING so it's an accurate portrayal of my communication! haha.

 

Still as Gurdjieff states laughing is just extra energy -- while yawning means the need to collect energy. Real spiritual bliss is beyond laughter -- laughter is just a lower emotional bliss. A lot of men use humor as a means to hit on other people -- to LOWER their intellectual energy down to the lower chakras which then, when activated through laughter, are sucked off. So laughter is a perv tool admittedly but laughter doesn't have to be a perv tool.

 

Anyway back to the "jhana-o-mat" haha. Yeah we've "had" this full-lotus discussion. Is Chunyi Lin wrong -- he states 20 minutes of full-lotus is worth 4 hours of any other exercise! Will "other" meditation work? Yes -- based on that difference in results -- 20 minutes to 4 hours! So if you have the time....

 

What males don't want to discuss is that full-lotus is the only real effective means to sublimate the sex energy because when you build up the celibacy energy then in modern society "forward" females and perv males will seek you out -- stalk you -- attack you and suck you off! That's why I started sitting in full-lotus in public -- otherwise full-lotus before sleep will reverse this sucking off lower chakra focus-damage as well.

 

There are other secrets -- Chunyi Lin teaches using the index finger against the thumb to close off the chakras so your energy is kept in your body. That works to a degree -- just like the book "Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality" has a specific hand mudra specifically to close off and reverse the lower chakra energy so that nocturnal emission does not occur. Again the hand mudras work but not nearly as effective as the full-lotus.

 

It's just a matter of the intensity of practice and the more intense the more dangerous the energy transformations (exorcisms/healings, etc.). As Chunyi Lin states when you get to the intermediate level -- for full 3rd eye opening -- you want personal master guidance and you want to be in the woods with lots of natural harmony. So these are rare conditions -- as Master Nan, Huai-chin states almost all modern practitioners:

 

"fall back into worldliness" due to "heroic over-exuburence." I'm sure this is the case for all Taobum posters as it happened to me -- I did the 7 day bigu energy feast (just half glass of water!) and had strong chi-shen energy but as I got telepathy and telekinesis and I did healing and females attacked me -- attracted to my built up sex energy -- and I did exorcisms and pulled someone's spirit out of their body, etc. It all became TOO much -- just as I was entering Nirvikalpa samadhi with the spacetime vortex as the room spinning around me while I was in full-lotus. I STOPPED practicing -- too much. I had to do more research, etc.

 

So before REAL meditation even -- before nirvikalpa samadhi -- the "direct awareness" paranormal powers occur and if used for healing others then the practitioner's energy becomes imbalanced again and must be reharmonized, recharged, etc. This is why isolation is so crucial plus personal supervision, etc. Or it's also why when we heal others we heal ourselves, etc.

 

Did Verdesi get this personal training in isolation? To some degree -- he has studied with many amazing top energy masters in Asia -- but did he study long-term with any of them -- enough to become energy master? If he can transmit energy so that others SEE LIGHT as testimony gives from his students -- then it is possible that Verdesi now has his third eye fully open. Although even I have had co-workers state they see light around me and see light when I transmit energy to them (besides smelling all the shit I off-gas from a "normal" diet! haha).

 

Chunyi Lin states if you want to see if someone is a qigong master then just see how long they can sit in full-lotus -- it's easy -- it confirms their body channels are open for real samadhi -- no need to argue about the "real" asana as some spiritual thing -- no need to insist on the proper philosophical view, etc.

 

You can't FAKE THE FULL-LOTUS! as I titled one of my articles on http://mind-energy.net It's a joke about females faking orgasms while having sex with men! haha.

 

 

 

 

 

i feel drew is right.

although it's obvious that many traditions that had great masters who didn't do the lotus pose.

still, to westerners, no effort is too much, because westerners are used to get it quick and easy.

from that standpoint, i think lotus pose is very much needed.

in fact any sadhana that is arduous and requires much effort...

you can't buy jhana's at the supermarket, with a coin. jhana-o-mat. haha.

 

L1

Edited October 13, 2009 by drewhempel

[宁]

i've been meaning to ask you drew, since i got no response yet from master chunyi lin (btw, does he ever answer to emails or facebook messages?) you said something about a qigong system centered on lotus pose alone. was it just talk or you know something more precise? thanx

[voidisyinyang]

I just posted more about the full-lotus so let me know if you want further information.... thanks.

[genmaicha]

Some more complaints about Jiang below.

 

http://translate.google.com.au/translate?h...%2522%26hl%3Den

Too many complaints for my liking,Wheres there smoke theres fire.

 

This looks very much to me like the one that had been posted before. The one that was written in the Apple about Ade/Atek from Taiwan.

Still it seems very fishy.

 

How does the blood extraction with the cups work?

Do they have to prick the skin with a concealed needle?

Apparently the claim is that there is some 'bad' blood that causes blockage and that needs to be removed.

 

 

I have reread this whole thread, including going to David Verdesi's website promoting his upcoming Nov NY seminar. Yes $200 a day is about the standard cost for a qigong chi initiation training. I can attest that this "electrical" transmission is real -- I've done it myself.

 

Can you be a bit more specific. Are you talking about a transmission from David?

 

But much more powerful is the LASER transmission which is done by Chunyi Lin and now Jim Nance through http://springforestqigong.com -- they charge about the same price $200 a day or $100 for one healing, even through the phone.

 

Also here some details about the LASER (gotta think of Dr Evil here ) transmission would be great.

 

To consistently transmit electromagnetic energy by a European is very very rare and so I can understand Verdesi wanting to charge the "going" rate in the Western yoga-qigong spiritual transmission circuit.

Again, have you felt him do it?

How do you know he can do it consistently?

Do we know that he wasn't shown by Zhai/Jiang how to use tesla coils and has got some in his shoes or on his belt or whatever?

[genmaicha]

Im also told there is some kind of box (size of a matchbox) that can easily be concealed in a pocket.

 

Zap

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbKtwiA9-do

Regards,

 

Interesting.

So, the person zapping doesn't even need a ring or anything?

How would it work? He's got the box on his belt. Then let's say with the right hand he's touching the other person's finger while at that moment he's activating the electricity with his left hand.

Something like that?

Can the person doing the zapping also feel the electricity or only the one on the receiving end?

[r.w.smith]

No they dont need a ring. Sometimes they will touch their legs or heels together slightly to complete the circuit with the hidden device. I would also like to hear a more detailed respone from drew regarding davids (electrical transmission)

 

So now,David can deliver shocks,But its some kind of top secret taoist transmission too. Wow,This guy gets better and better.

 

I have a huge file here (in chinese) and i used google translate for it. This file lists all the qigong tricks used by the many fake qigong masters in China. Some of them are truly amazing,From glowing red hot finger tips,lighting smokes,Sticking an arm in boiling hot oil, all can be duplicated and this book reveals how. This is a different & more revealing book then leung tings vagabond.

 

Many of the substances used are chemicals,borax,etc. I looked up trying to find these tricks in magic webpages on the net. So far i have not got any of this kind of info in english, But no doubt the old magicians knew about all these chemical tricks.

 

Regards,