David Verdesi

[Vajrasattva]

Im not the one with a theroy that no one needs a master. It was you who said that.

 

If your "root guru" tells you to spend 10000s of dollars on somethng, travel thousands of miles, and things like that, would you do it?

 

If your root guru tells you to spend years at the university or study with another teacher, would you do it?

 

Im shure you have a lot of respect for what other peoples root guru is telling them. Thats why I dont understand why you, and other people, make comments on the un-nessecity(sorry my bad english) of spending money on something... why is that?

 

Why is money worse than any other obstacle?

 

 

hey if your root is telling you to than go do it I am certainly not stopping you. More power to you bro.

[sheng zhen]

hey if your root is telling you to than go do it I am certainly not stopping you. More power to you bro.

Thanks man.

 

Im still seriously interested in why people with your kind of respect, developement and knowledge tell us to "save our money". Would you like to present your thoughts about that?

[styrofoamdog]

You know what always amazes me, is that we have classics written by Immortals and Bodhisattvas on how to practice cultivation -- but we still think that the most important training from a charismatic young Caucasian guy who teaches his completely different secret hidden methods for $10,000.

 

If people were really interested in this stuff, they would just go to Wang Liping, who was supposedly trained by immortals and who David claims is his teacher. Wang Liping is at least a famous master who has proven himself over the course of several decades. And people can learn from him without spending their life savings.

[mjjbecker]

This is a well raked over debate. Is there really anything to be gained by going over it yet again?

 

For the umpteenth time, it really doesn't matter what others opinions are.

 

Opinion without experience is worthless anyway. There, debate that.

[joeblast]

http://www.thetaobums.com/search.htmlBT

[dao zhen]

To really make gains, one must have a teacher in the begining.

 

This is a fact.

 

Teachers can take many forms though........

 

So instead of feeling that if you are without an in the flesh teacher giving you face to face lessons, you can make no gain or progress.......

 

Begin right now to cultivate Tao.....

 

It has been my personal experience that if we lay some foundation through self practice,

and cultivate a heart of purity and sincerity, magical things can take place,

and teachers will present themselves to help guide the student.

 

In the begining some trust and faith are needed.

 

Trust yourself, your inner self......

 

Have faith in nature and Tao............

 

How to get started on the path of Tao and internal cultivation.........

 

1. Work on your diet. Eat very clean and simple foods. Mostly of a vegetarian nature, no spice, no artificial things, no drugs and alchohol. If needed a little fish and chicken is fine from time to time.

 

2. Drink boiled water and hot drinks, do not drink iced drinks and cold water.

 

3. Regulate your sex life. Do not watch sex movies and magazines. Be naturally celebate, or have healthy sex once every 9 - 15 days.

 

4. Develop a very simple life, and do not be too busy. Limit strong emotional changes and reactions.

 

5. Practice sitting daily. Best is once in the morning and once in the evening if possible.

 

Gaining stillness and emptiness is the starting point in any system of Tao....

 

- Heart Mind Fasting Meditation -

 

- How to Practice -

 

- Taoism Theory -

 

Cleanse the Heart of All Desires and Passions

 

Disciplining the Heart --- much akin to preaching devotion and devoutness as do many schools of religions ---

is the process critical to the successful pursuit of Tao.

 

The heart, we all know, is accustomed to yielding to the reckless actions of multifarious thoughts.

 

So the process to rid oneself of stray thoughts, should proceed step by step, and the idea of rooting out all stray thoughts in an instant should be dropped.

 

Seat yourself in the posture like the many Buddha statues.

 

---the legs crossed and the fingers of two hands interlocked, let the tongue touch the roof of the mouth, teeth lightly touching, breathing gently and softly in and out of the nose ---

 

Compose your heart and purge it of all disorderly thoughts.

 

Then gently settle your Mind-Will in the Lower Elixir Field.

 

The Lower Elixir Field or the Lower Dantian (Tan Tien) is located in the empty space below the navel in the middle place between the kidney and navel -- a sphere of around 3.8 cm. Let the internal vision gaze upon that place; looking yet not looking.

 

That is to say, persistently rest your mind in this vague space, with no time spent on pondering over other things.

 

This is a gradual process.

 

You should be patient with its dullness at the beginning.

 

Only with both patience and persistence will you succeed.

 

After an appropriate length of time when your Heart has assumed equanimity,

it is the time for you to pay attention to inhaling and exhaling.

 

Knowing where the Lower Elixir Field is but not putting your full attention there merits the great reward.

 

It is like gazing over it, yet no gazing; it is a paradox.

 

Perhaps we can think of it much like the sun gazes and shines over the plants and flowers, and the plants and flowers naturally reach up to receive the light and gaze of the sun........

 

Yet there is no forcefulness of the sun and it has no idea or intention to take such action......

 

We should gaze over the Lower Elixir Field in this manner in the first stages.....

[Vajrasattva]

Thanks man.

 

Im still seriously interested in why people with your kind of respect, development and knowledge tell us to "save our money". Would you like to present your thoughts about that?

 

 

What you should do is speak to the "hundreds" of students and see how their development is from their training.

 

I have yet to see any do anything I haven't seen others do for a lot less. Yes its true a master has to eat but a master also has a responsibility to his students & their needs. I charge for my time as did my teachers but it was always accessible to everyone and a rate that does not disturb the balance of things. I know I charge a lot less than most but I can assure you get priceless gems that last a lifetime. And my students can demonstrate their abilities within 30 days to a few months of their training. There is no Bullshit its just is what it is.

 

Those that charge and arm & leg should raise an eye brow and also it should tell you something about their true intentions and their generosity of the heart or lack there of.

 

I like how on the video he speaks of his master being a man of moderation and spiritual and sort of puts himself in that same boat meanwhile he can justify charging $7000 for a course in foundations. That $70 dvd does nothing for the viewer but try to mesmerize him or her in to seeking power. That cupping healing and drawing blood that is NOTHING NEW. Electrocuting chi is also nothing new there are many masters that have such ability. The igniting straw hey fire is a party trick with chemicals in the hands. Do it with out touch then you can say its real. I have yet to see that done.

 

I have done things where my students told me they have been "Shocked" or electrically "Jolted". Its not something I tried to do it a Side effect from training and being. Some of my teachers had that ability as well and one of my teachers now has probably the strongest one I have ever felt. Yet he charges NO money for his teachings. He only asks that you pay credit to the creator & make a donation to a worthy cause.

 

I did not like the fact on the foundation forum that D. V & Sean D claim NO ONE else on the planet has such abilities etc And write articles etc that make it seem as if this power is no where else. That is just not true.

I am sure their masters have abilities no one is denying that.

 

I will tell you this much some of the stuff DV writes about is just flat out bullshit.

 

This could be misconstrued the wrong way and i know to some i may come off as an Asshole but hey I am just letting you know cause you asked me what I thought. If you feel this is your path DO it. And God bless. If it makes you a better person Do it.

 

peace to you and may you be blessed in what ever path you take.

 

Santiago

Edited July 8, 2008 by Vajrasattva

[amacgregor]

What you should do is speak to the "hundreds" of students and see how their development is from their training.

 

I have yet to see any do anything I haven't seen others do for a lot less. Yes its true a master has to eat but a master also has a responsibility to his students & their needs. I charge for my time as did my teachers but it was always accessible to everyone and a rate that does not disturb the balance of things. I know I charge a lot less than most but I can assure you get priceless gems that last a lifetime. And my students can demonstrate their abilities within 30 days to a few months of their training. There is no Bullshit its just is what it is.

 

Those that charge and arm & leg should raise an eye brow and also it should tell you something about their true intentions and their generosity of the heart or lack there of.

 

I like how on the video he speaks of his master being a man of moderation and spiritual and sort of puts himself in that same boat meanwhile he can justify charging $7000 for a course in foundations. That $70 dvd does nothing for the viewer but try to mesmerize him or her in to seeking power. That cupping healing and drawing blood that is NOTHING NEW. Electrocuting chi is also nothing new there are many masters that have such ability. The igniting straw hey fire is a party trick with chemicals in the hands. Do it with out touch then you can say its real. I have yet to see that done.

 

I have done things where my students told me they have been "Shocked" or electrically "Jolted". Its not something I tried to do it a Side effect from training and being. Some of my teachers had that ability as well and one of my teachers now has probably the strongest one I have ever felt. Yet he charges NO money for his teachings. He only asks that you pay credit to the creator & make a donation to a worthy cause.

 

I did not like the fact on the foundation forum that D. V & Sean D claim NO ONE else on the planet has such abilities etc And write articles etc that make it seem as if this power is no where else. That is just not true.

I am sure their masters have abilities no one is denying that.

 

I will tell you this much some of the stuff DV writes about is just flat out bullshit.

 

This could be misconstrued the wrong way and i know to some i may come off as an Asshole but hey I am just letting you know cause you asked me what I thought. If you feel this is your path DO it. And God bless. If it makes you a better person Do it.

 

peace to you and may you be blessed in what ever path you take.

 

Santiago

Well Said Santiago Well Said in deed. Cheers Bro and peace to you.

[Guest sykkelpump]

What you should do is speak to the "hundreds" of students and see how their development is from their training.

 

I have yet to see any do anything I haven't seen others do for a lot less. Yes its true a master has to eat but a master also has a responsibility to his students & their needs. I charge for my time as did my teachers but it was always accessible to everyone and a rate that does not disturb the balance of things. I know I charge a lot less than most but I can assure you get priceless gems that last a lifetime. And my students can demonstrate their abilities within 30 days to a few months of their training. There is no Bullshit its just is what it is.

 

Those that charge and arm & leg should raise an eye brow and also it should tell you something about their true intentions and their generosity of the heart or lack there of.

 

I like how on the video he speaks of his master being a man of moderation and spiritual and sort of puts himself in that same boat meanwhile he can justify charging $7000 for a course in foundations. That $70 dvd does nothing for the viewer but try to mesmerize him or her in to seeking power. That cupping healing and drawing blood that is NOTHING NEW. Electrocuting chi is also nothing new there are many masters that have such ability. The igniting straw hey fire is a party trick with chemicals in the hands. Do it with out touch then you can say its real. I have yet to see that done.

 

I have done things where my students told me they have been "Shocked" or electrically "Jolted". Its not something I tried to do it a Side effect from training and being. Some of my teachers had that ability as well and one of my teachers now has probably the strongest one I have ever felt. Yet he charges NO money for his teachings. He only asks that you pay credit to the creator & make a donation to a worthy cause.

 

I did not like the fact on the foundation forum that D. V & Sean D claim NO ONE else on the planet has such abilities etc And write articles etc that make it seem as if this power is no where else. That is just not true.

I am sure their masters have abilities no one is denying that.

 

I will tell you this much some of the stuff DV writes about is just flat out bullshit.

 

This could be misconstrued the wrong way and i know to some i may come off as an Asshole but hey I am just letting you know cause you asked me what I thought. If you feel this is your path DO it. And God bless. If it makes you a better person Do it.

 

peace to you and may you be blessed in what ever path you take.

 

Santiago

 

 

I see you use every opportunity to tell about your ovn skills.You say some of the stuff DV writes about is just plain bullshit.could you give me some examples?

[mantis]

heres one

 

i'm on good terms with the mo pai

 

not

[sheng zhen]

This could be misconstrued the wrong way and i know to some i may come off as an Asshole but hey I am just letting you know cause you asked me what I thought. If you feel this is your path DO it. And God bless. If it makes you a better person Do it.

 

peace to you and may you be blessed in what ever path you take.

 

Santiago

Thanks for your explaining!

 

Its a valuble perspective.

[fizix]

I remember a while ago there was talk about sending a reputable tao bum on one of David's seminars, and I believe several ended up going anyways, each claiming that David and his practice was legit. From what I know, David's pai of Lei Shan Dao is inherently similar to that of the Mo-Pai, in terms of goals and results; considering the Mo-Pai is now closed door, one would be hard-pressed to find anything other than Lei Shan Dao if he wanted to take such a path of what I like to call "extreme yang chi cultivation"

 

Based on what I read, before David or the other instructors will show you the Lei Shan Dao method of creating the Dan Tian (which I'm not sure is similar to the mo-pai's method) you must first learn the moving exercise of Xing Shen Zhuang as a prerequisite in order to open the channels in the spine (possible safety net, I'm assuming). Nei gong doesn't start until the "foundation training" is completed (takes 2 years I hear?), the foundation training being merely the straightening of the spine and empty thought/stillness meditation, the methodology of which I believe is fully explained in video by David himself and can be found on a Russian website.

[Vajrasattva]

I see you use every opportunity to tell about your ovn skills.You say some of the stuff DV writes about is just plain bullshit.could you give me some examples?

 

 

Read them for yourself. Especially the ones where he says the Tibetan Lamas do not have any power etc that they "lost" their Chakra etc..& that the Dalai Lama has no juice etc....Crock of Shit I have met & received empowerments from him He knows what he is doing in his realm of work.

 

Also that he and sean D state that what most people think its Kundalini is not Kundalini...

Bullshit.

That is just dangling a carrot in front of you and making you think its Humanly impossible.

 

I do not use the opportunity I just share take it or leave it. I know my place in the universe and believe me I will be the 1st to tell you I am a beginner compared to some of the REAL people out there who have been doing what I do for over 50 to 70 years. I know a lot but in the grand scheme of things its not even a 10th of the depth of things. Those people that are HIGH up are not interested in SELLING their knowledge and only show the pure of heart & show from the heart. It has NOTHING to do with the $ figure. Excuse me for my honesty. I just say it like it is. I just share with you that if a 31 year old in the USA non asian can do things so can you! You do not need to spend $10,000 to achieve attainment. Sure it might cost you a bit (travel expenses, donating money, making sure your Guru or teacher is ok for his or her time) to speed things up etc but you can also do it the longer route by yourself. Either way it ain't no $10,000. As I have said before all power & knowledge comes from the Creator we are just conductors.

 

I tell you what go do the $10,000 training than come pay me a visit and we can see if you know or not.

 

Or I could gladly set you up with others that can easily give your $10,000 foundation training a run for its money.

You are welcome to bring David V aswell.

 

 

peace & God Bless You,

 

Santiago

[AugustLeo]

.

[Jedi777]

Santiago!! I like how you tell it!

Peace Brother

Looking forward to my DVD's

The Secret book you wrote is very good! I highly recommend it!

[sheng zhen]

I tell you what go do the $10,000 training than come pay me a visit and we can see if you know or not.

How do you check if we "know or not"?

[Neikung]

Again its just me ... its my opinion I'm not telling David Sheng its wrong, Siffu X is laying ... or anything like that I'm just expression my opinion on a honest way and I want to get to know your opinion about the issue.

 

For me, the most telling thing about David is the fact that he called himself Dr. Verdesi (for Ph.D.). When questioned in this forum earlier this year, his "title" suddenly disappeared from the various web sites, including his own. In this modern day of age, titles are not to be taken lightly and shouldn't be misused. Unless there is a very good explanation, this alone should serve as a big warning sign.

[Wun Yuen Gong]

10K is alot for a normal Dao Yin type method which u could actually download recently with david teaching a student the exercises!

 

But then again what is 10K when u can have perfect health if it will ever give it to you, when you can change your diet, meditate on Dan Tian, do simple stretches for free!

 

Hmmm as long as the students are happy that is there prerogative!!!

[Vajrasattva]

I've really come to enjoy your perspective Santiago. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

 

Best wishes.

 

Thanks brother best wishes to you.

 

Santiago

[Vajrasattva]

How do you check if we "know or not"?

 

 

Those that know can do & can see if others "know & can do". Those that do not know simply can not do.

 

There are certain Biological signs of an "Awakened Master". In less than 2 minutes I could diagnose your Aura Chakra centers, Central Channel, Dan tiens & crown development to know where you are at.

 

Your Aura & energy body doesn't Lie You would need some skill to "hide" but even then those that know would know and sense & see what's going on. So If you are in front of me I would know what your deal is or isn't very fast. My BS meter is huge and has been trained for a long time. One of the biggest things we train in Hoshin is Intention sensing & Chakra Diagnosis. The only other group I know that does such things are the Pranic Healers. Some of them are VERY GOOD at it. Grand Master Choa and other High Pranic healers are 'DEAD ON" some times. Dr. Morris was very high skilled at it. The best person I know with such skill is Tao Semko. I am sure other schools teach it but its not so common. They just teach cultivation but stay clear of the Left hand path & the True Yin understanding of things. You need both right & Left Yin & Yang.

 

Also there are many ways to test this stuff out with both psychic & physical combat if you wish.

 

In the ancient days Your energy work had to work on the battlefield otherwise you died : ).

 

I do not deny that some of the teachers DV has dealt with have abilities. I know a couple folks that trained with Jchang some westerners and some who live in Indonesia and they confirm a lot of things for me without needing to show or say anything just by scanning their auras. But ironically They do not speak highly of DV. Go figure......The chinese man i saw on the dvd seemed to know some stuff but i have seen that before with much less effort by other taoists, buddhist lamas, real shaolin monks, real gung fu sifus, real silat gurus & sufi sheiks, pendekars, and people who had real kundalini open. Funny non of them charge $10,000........

 

 

Anyhow I extend my warmth to you if you wish to play with energy once you have done your training i am always available.

 

God bless & I seriously do wish you the best on your path.

 

Sincerely,

 

Santiago

Edited July 9, 2008 by Vajrasattva

[Yoda]

Vajrasattva,

 

You have gotten us out of our usual taobum groove on this and many other issues... thank you, very much appreciated.

 

Imo, teachers are strange creatures and goofy titles, fictitious endorsements, wild claims, high costs are pretty much par for the course. It doesn't even scan with me anymore.

 

I mean, Glenn Morris must have been a piece of work too, yes?

 

Your pal,

Yoda

[Vajrasattva]

Vajrasattva,

 

You have gotten us out of our usual taobum groove on this and many other issues... thank you, very much appreciated.

 

Imo, teachers are strange creatures and goofy titles, fictitious endorsements, wild claims, high costs are pretty much par for the course. It doesn't even scan with me anymore.

 

I mean, Glenn Morris must have been a piece of work too, yes?

 

Your pal,

Yoda

 

Hi Yoda : ) Sorry i can be a pain in the ass I do not mean it in a bad way I just can not stomach people getting fooled and dooped out of $10,000 and have nothing or no skill to show afterwards and the chi of a mini squirt gun as opposed that of a fire hose! I have seen that in the Martial Art world, Music World & the Spiritual / Cultivation world. It gets old. I am sick an tired of masters holding back & also charging an arm and a legg for things that shouldn't be that expensive. I mean yeah make sure your teacher or Guru or guide is not starving and can pay his flying or lodging expenses but do not get rapped either. He or she should get compensated for their time appropriately but it should not be abused either.

 

Glenn was interesting to say the least very real but also VERY HUMAN. that was one of the best things about him for sure. He was very straight forward and if he liked you you always got more than what you bargained or paid for.

 

Glenn didn't run around charging $5000-$10,000

 

He charged for his time a standard relaxed fee most people & students could afford.

 

His whole thing was take once give back twice. In everything.

Its called "giri".

 

If David can sleep well at night with his High costs more power to him. I certainly wouldn't be able to. I have no issues making money but I do have issues abusing people financially. You could go to Indonesia or Malaysia and pay $1500 flight and then go with a sincere heart to meet some really sufi masters, or chi kung/nei gung masters or Ilmu Kebatinan masters who would show you more for A LOT LESS! Yeah If I had a million dollars I would gladly give to all my teachers to make sure they never needed anything cause the truth is the teachings are priceless but NEVER have my teachers charged an arm and a leg for things nor excluded me if i could not afford. They where truly reasonable and also flexible to the individual needs of the students.

 

The day you see me charging $10,000 per person to teach you how to fill your dan tien, you will know something is wrong with me

 

The only time I would charge you $10,000 is if you needed me as a body gaurd to save your ass from taking a bullet or getting attacked for 100 hours.

 

Peace

 

Santiago

[mjjbecker]

As the old saying goes, Santiago is a prince among men.

 

While I have my own teacher and am quite happy with what I am doing, I certainly look forward to meeting up with Santiago in the future-that's a 'when', and not an 'if' BTW.

 

He has a big heart.

[Vajrasattva]

As the old saying goes, Santiago is a prince among men.

 

While I have my own teacher and am quite happy with what I am doing, I certainly look forward to meeting up with Santiago in the future-that's a 'when', and not an 'if' BTW.

 

He has a big heart.

 

 

Thanks brother I was actually thinking of you today when I went to my lake to do my Tenaga Batin training. I sent you some nice juice & a smile

For you the bodygaurd rate would be greatly reduced!

 

We will meet soon when possible. I am looking to cross the pond with in 6 to 8 months.

 

God bless you man,

 

Santiago

[mjjbecker]

In regards to the 'foundation' training offered by David Verdesi.

 

I know it was asked on his forum, (I used to be a member, but not since the $$$ fee was introduced), if you needed to do the foundation training in order to practice one of the 'lei shan dao' methods. The answer was no.

 

However, it was stated the practice did have various benefits in preparing the body and mind for training in other schools.

 

I've said it before, and I suppose I'll repeat it for those who don't want to go and search the old threads, what you do is your choice. Personally I decided to find a teacher directly, rather than go through David Verdesi. That was my intuitive feeling of what was right for me. Some people may be drawn to what David offers. That may be right for them.

 

I will say this. I know there is a lot of interest in Wang Li Ping. Being as I live in China I do have some advantages when it comes to searching people out. If I manage to find any contact information regarding Wang or his students and teaching being offered, I will post it here. There will be no charge, no demand for $$$$. The rest will be up to you and your destiny.

 

Best,

 

Mike