David Verdesi

[voidisyinyang]

I've had NO experience with Verdesi or John Chang or Liping, etc. but I have got REAL chi transmission from Effie P. Chow and from Chunyi Lin and Jim Nance of http://springforestqigong.com and I, myself, have trained to create this transmission.

 

It is FOR REAL. The training is very difficult but the principles work and if properly followed produce real results. Does that mean people could try to fake this stuff? Sure but showing some other fake method does nothing to disprove the qi transmission.

 

Chunyi Lin works with the Mayo Clinic! So he has just by himself proven that qigong healing is REAL -- laser-holographic love healing. Again his skill is very very very rare -- he did the cave meditation of full-lotus -- a month in full-lotus without water, food or sleep!

 

The main reason Westerners don't know about or believe in qi or prana, etc. is because it relies on the male controlling the lower half of his body! haha.

[ramus]

Interesting.

So, the person zapping doesn't even need a ring or anything?

How would it work? He's got the box on his belt. Then let's say with the right hand he's touching the other person's finger while at that moment he's activating the electricity with his left hand.

Something like that?

Can the person doing the zapping also feel the electricity or only the one on the receiving end?

 

REALLY INTERESTING, MAYBE JUST DAVID USA this trick, maybe she has learned in his travels by a few "magician."

IN FACT SEEMS TO ME THAT THE REACTIONS OF PAIN AND SURPRISE ARE THE SAME AS I COULD HAVE TRIED IT TOO.

ALSO I HAVE RECEIVED THE DOWNLOADS ARE COMPLETELY USELESS IN TERMS OF SPIRITUAL GROWTH (which is what DAVID GAVE FOR SAFE) AND THE PERCEPTION OF SUBTLE ENERGY. CONSIDERING THAT I HAVE RECEIVED FROM MANY MASTERS energy transmission and are accustomed to changes in my consciousness, so at least I THINK ABOUT THIS FOR BEING ABLE TO DISTINGUISH THE DIFFERENCE.

I was amazed that this strange transmission of electricity, so painful, had not even had any of spiritual activity or energy, I know at least one exit from the body while sleep, ANY TYPE OF CHANGE IN MY LIFE ..... NOTHING NOTHING!!

 

[Neikung]

I have a huge file here (in chinese) and i used google translate for it. This file lists all the qigong tricks used by the many fake qigong masters in China. Some of them are truly amazing,From glowing red hot finger tips,lighting smokes,Sticking an arm in boiling hot oil, all can be duplicated and this book reveals how. This is a different & more revealing book then leung tings vagabond.

Wow.. Care to share this file, smith? or may be one can buy this book if you tell us the title? I can read Chinese and would love to see how qigong tricks can be performed by faked masters.

 

Thanks.

[r.w.smith]

Hi Neikung, I will locate the file and pm it to you.

 

Drew,Sorry for the misunderstanding. I thought You had actually recieved the transmission from david. I dont think anybody here doubts that external chi is real,of course its real. I just think there are more cheaters out there today then ever before .

 

Regards,

[ramus]

So, to summarize, my point of view on the practices that David Shen says of practice and even teach:

 

The street lighting has nothing to do with the school of thunder and lightning, is highly detrimental to the body of the practitioner,

 

is extremely dangerous for its practitioners and those close to the practitioner,

 

power generated is completely dissociated from the knowledge and character of the person, then an evil person could reach the heights of this practice,

 

practice is therefore to serve a hypertrophic ego that believes that it is so important to have to live forever

 

generates power and increases selfishness and egocentrism, gives the possibility not to look to their personal growth that is replaced by growth of ego

 

In practice, it repeats the myth of the Tower of Babel, the practitioner tries to rise from the bottom up with its own strengths and build a being that is beyond the laws of nature, we try to construct a devil can be so compact enough to be harder than the scythe of death, the guardian of the threshold,

 

this practice is not therefore considered the importance of the spirit that is the true ruler and tries to replace it by the ego and the proposed evolution of the spirit replaces a personal and necessarily short-sighted

 

Besides all this, when David (and for me would be the best, since the character) was not reached actual powers of energy, then it could use some trivial tricks to generate the electricity that I also have heard,

 

However the fact that David now has moved in the tradition of MIAO is probably a marketing move, just to have a greater chance of having students and to broaden his target presone poor but present in more than

 

the fact that he can talk about lighting and want to give an initiation of this is, in my opinion, ludicrous, in fact only an enlightened would do something like this and he is not.

 

My experience of David is that he does not even know to be a good friend, let alone be a teacher.

Edited October 15, 2009 by ramus

[lino]

 

Okay

 

From what I've seen most signs, markers, and abilities are non-denominational.

 

Take for example that:

 

1. Dr.Morris was practicing Taoist Methods and got Kundalini.

 

2. Itzak Bentov was practicing Kundalini Yoga and got Taoist Markers and signs:

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showtopic=10523

 

3. One of Santiago's teachers (Pak Muhammad...a Sufi) does the electric healing.

 

With the wealth of stuff online, if a person doesn't run into any problems, they can be cultivating for years.

Edited October 16, 2009 by lino

[lino]

 

As for the alleged sex obsession of Verdesi - I had not read this before but it makes sense since the secret of qigong power is from taking in female sex energy! The female sex energy or jing or N/um (Bushmen) is also from animals -- hence the bull energy transmission. It's the lower body energy found even in males....

 

Still the "technique" of full-lotus is completely underestimated in WESTERN investigation into nonwestern shamanic paranormal powers and meditation, etc. There is a direct connection between full-lotus power and TAKING IN FEMALE SEX ENERGY as well. I can sit in full-lotus for hours on end as long as there are females around -- so again Verdesi's sex obsession actually CONFIRMS his power abilities.

 

 

????

 

take in female sex energy? Seems like a form of modern day voodoo and vampirism.

 

As best as I understand it, during any kind of period of retention, energy doesn't get differentiated into "sexual energy" and doesn't get used at the reproductive level because there is a sort of a stop there. That energy that doesn't get differentiated into "sexual energy" is used to correct issues in other parts of the body or to correct issues with the mind or psyche. It is wasteful and inefficient for energy in the body to be converted to "sexual energy" and "reconverted" to something higher.

[voidisyinyang]

Well jing as in YIN electrochemical energy does not have to be from "females" per se but in terms of tantra it's preferable since females ALREADY have the internal climax that males in alchemy have to develop -- the parasympathetic vagus nerve climax.

 

So I think it's generally accepted that "jing" is yin female energy and "chi" is yang male energy but shen as "positive vitality" (chi) is also "negative spirit" female and therefore yin yet when shen increases then it turns to "positive spirit" yang which is also physical "pre-natal vitality" as jing yin. This is why alchemy both starts and ends with jing and this process is detailed in

 

"Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality" -- and Verdesi did train with one of the students of the Taoist Yoga author.

 

Once the macrocosmic orbit is opened then, as Mantak Chia details, there is a build-up of energy through more and more internal climaxes (orgasms without ejaculation) -- but that sex energy is again the female electrochemical jing energy. Mantak Chia details this tantric exchange with the intake of female energy and the transmission of male chi energy out of the healer.

 

It doesn't have to be males that transmit male chi yang energy -- but that is usually the case. And the Bushmen explicitly call it "Collecting the N/um of young maidens" -- N/um being the jing or kundalini energy. Of course I speak from practice so if you want to disagree with me -- that has no effect on what I know to be true from practice.

 

The sex energy factor is balanced with food and how long it's built up. As Taoist Yoga states -- the more you increase the chi and store it in the lower tan tien the greater the risk the chi will be deconverted back into generative fluid via the jing or generative force.

 

I think you understand this -- but not in terms of tantra. So Taoist Yoga states that if there is any kind of interaction with female (or perv male) then before sleep that jing energy MUST be converted back into chi or else you'll have nocturnal emission.

 

With tantra instead of avoiding females there is a conscious exchange -- because again females can have unlimited climaxes UNLIKE THE TYPICAL MALE -- but a real full-lotus master with the macrocosmic orbit open can also have unlimited mutual climaxes with females. So the female receives the chi while the male takes in the female jing and with each climax there is an increase in the free energy exchange -- meaning the two bodies are both converted more and more to chi. This is intense as the heart chakra opens up and must be transcended.

 

That's why tantra is considered the fastest path -- but the partner needs to be chosen with care. Also the food diet has to be decreased to minimum, including fasting -- the 7 day fast is about chapter 10 in Taoist Yoga. I already got to that. After that the practice becomes very complicated and needs the personal guidance of a teacher. Usually the male still needs to go off for special training sessions.

 

So Verdesi, I'm sure, got past chapter 10 of Taoist Yoga -- but to what extent is hard to say. As Gurdjieff says to get from a Number 4 person (permanently opened 3rd eye or the macrocosmic orbit) to a Number 5 person (FULLY OPENED THIRD EYE) is very very difficult. Gurdjieff didn't achieve it.

 

Master Chunyi Lin did achieve it fairly early on -- I think with Master Yao at Shaolin. Master Chunyi Lin also trained with Yan Xin's MASTERS.

[de_paradise]

Despite all the frauds out there, there are the legitimate guys too. One would be foolish to paint them all with the same brush, just as the average joe paints cultivation in general as a pile of b.s. and misses out on the whole ball of wax. Personal experience and personal verfication is key. You cant use ancilliary evidence to condem someone. It doesnt matter to me one way or another what this Veredesi does or is, just dont care at all. But it does concern me that TTB's often shouts down legtimate guys like a pack of angry chickens, like playground children. And you know what Im talking about if you have ever been on the recieving end of doubt and mocking scepticism that most people understand as "logic", while knowing that in fact you are right and have something to offer, but the mo-fo's are so far up their own asses to be be curious, courteous and objective.

[lino]

Well jing as in YIN electrochemical energy does not have to be from "females" per se but in terms of tantra it's preferable since females ALREADY have the internal climax that males in alchemy have to develop -- the parasympathetic vagus nerve climax.

 

So I think it's generally accepted that "jing" is yin female energy and "chi" is yang male energy but shen as "positive vitality" (chi) is also "negative spirit" female and therefore yin yet when shen increases then it turns to "positive spirit" yang which is also physical "pre-natal vitality" as jing yin. This is why alchemy both starts and ends with jing and this process is detailed in

 

"Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality" -- and Verdesi did train with one of the students of the Taoist Yoga author.

 

I have my own yin and jing (however little) so I have no need for anybody else's. Even external healing to a point seems to be too much trouble since it seems my body doesn't want to take on anybody else's energy. Taking from the unsuspecting has it's own issues to itself. You already seen writings on what health issues these sexual practices gave to Verdesi. Sexual practices are a side road that lead to a dead end.

 

Cultivating for a "parasympathetic vagus nerve climax" or "Immortality" are side roads. The natural process for this plane is birth and death. Cultivating isn't worth it unless I can make it materialize in this world through better virtue, better and more efficient function, or better health.

[Vajrasattva]

Well jing as in YIN electrochemical energy does not have to be from "females" per se but in terms of tantra it's preferable since females ALREADY have the internal climax that males in alchemy have to develop -- the parasympathetic vagus nerve climax.

 

So I think it's generally accepted that "jing" is yin female energy and "chi" is yang male energy but shen as "positive vitality" (chi) is also "negative spirit" female and therefore yin yet when shen increases then it turns to "positive spirit" yang which is also physical "pre-natal vitality" as jing yin. This is why alchemy both starts and ends with jing and this process is detailed in

 

"Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality" -- and Verdesi did train with one of the students of the Taoist Yoga author.

 

Once the macrocosmic orbit is opened then, as Mantak Chia details, there is a build-up of energy through more and more internal climaxes (orgasms without ejaculation) -- but that sex energy is again the female electrochemical jing energy. Mantak Chia details this tantric exchange with the intake of female energy and the transmission of male chi energy out of the healer.

 

It doesn't have to be males that transmit male chi yang energy -- but that is usually the case. And the Bushmen explicitly call it "Collecting the N/um of young maidens" -- N/um being the jing or kundalini energy. Of course I speak from practice so if you want to disagree with me -- that has no effect on what I know to be true from practice.

 

The sex energy factor is balanced with food and how long it's built up. As Taoist Yoga states -- the more you increase the chi and store it in the lower tan tien the greater the risk the chi will be deconverted back into generative fluid via the jing or generative force.

 

I think you understand this -- but not in terms of tantra. So Taoist Yoga states that if there is any kind of interaction with female (or perv male) then before sleep that jing energy MUST be converted back into chi or else you'll have nocturnal emission.

 

With tantra instead of avoiding females there is a conscious exchange -- because again females can have unlimited climaxes UNLIKE THE TYPICAL MALE -- but a real full-lotus master with the macrocosmic orbit open can also have unlimited mutual climaxes with females. So the female receives the chi while the male takes in the female jing and with each climax there is an increase in the free energy exchange -- meaning the two bodies are both converted more and more to chi. This is intense as the heart chakra opens up and must be transcended.

 

That's why tantra is considered the fastest path -- but the partner needs to be chosen with care. Also the food diet has to be decreased to minimum, including fasting -- the 7 day fast is about chapter 10 in Taoist Yoga. I already got to that. After that the practice becomes very complicated and needs the personal guidance of a teacher. Usually the male still needs to go off for special training sessions.

 

So Verdesi, I'm sure, got past chapter 10 of Taoist Yoga -- but to what extent is hard to say. As Gurdjieff says to get from a Number 4 person (permanently opened 3rd eye or the macrocosmic orbit) to a Number 5 person (FULLY OPENED THIRD EYE) is very very difficult. Gurdjieff didn't achieve it.

 

Master Chunyi Lin did achieve it fairly early on -- I think with Master Yao at Shaolin. Master Chunyi Lin also trained with Yan Xin's MASTERS.

 

Drew non of this is fully true...

 

We know already you pimp the lotus & spring forest kick but come one man its not 100% true.

 

Tantric Chakra Puja and methdology supersedes any "posture" or asana including Padmasana and meditation. 1 hour of real Tantra is the equivalent of 8 hours + of sitting in meditation by yourself.

 

What do you really know of real sexual tantra? How many hours + women have you made love too? How much milage do you really have in that field??? What has really changed?

 

Also where you in the same room with Gurdjieff to know if he never "achieved" what you are saying?

 

seems like you are still also dependent on things out side of the ONE.

Edited October 18, 2009 by Vajrasattva

[Smile]

That's why tantra is considered the fastest path -- but the partner needs to be chosen with care.

Yes, if someone can teach you real Tantra. What is out there in the public view is not Tantra - it's spiritualized sex. In order even to qualify to be taught Tantra you have to already have a very high spiritual development - in Buddhist terms, at least 1st Dhyana, preferably second. Your mind/heart should be clear from desires including sex - that's a must. And then, you have to find a partner that has the same, lol. You have a better change winning lottery. Edited October 18, 2009 by Smile

[lino]

Yes, if someone can teach you real Tantra. What is out there in the public view is not Tantra - it's spiritualized sex.

 

Perhaps not even that.

 

A lot of people want to have their cake and eat it.

 

Even if there are real methods, I rather not believe in it.

[Neikung]

Despite all the frauds out there, there are the legitimate guys too. One would be foolish to paint them all with the same brush, just as the average joe paints cultivation in general as a pile of b.s. and misses out on the whole ball of wax. Personal experience and personal verfication is key. You cant use ancilliary evidence to condem someone. It doesnt matter to me one way or another what this Veredesi does or is, just dont care at all. But it does concern me that TTB's often shouts down legtimate guys like a pack of angry chickens, like playground children. And you know what Im talking about if you have ever been on the recieving end of doubt and mocking scepticism that most people understand as "logic", while knowing that in fact you are right and have something to offer, but the mo-fo's are so far up their own asses to be be curious, courteous and objective.

I don't know the case of TTB shutting down legitimate guys but for Verdesi, there are just too many inconsistencies. Here is another one..in his youtube video, I was amused at his translation of the word "miao tong". He said that miao 妙 means mysterious wonder and tong 通 means through, breakthrough, hence the word miao tong means wonderous breakthrough". He was right until the word "breakthrough". Tong means through but NOT breakthrough. The word "tong" has no relationship with breakthrough what so ever. Is this a translation blunder or a purposeful marketing ploy?

[voidisyinyang]

Drew non of this is fully true...

 

We know already you pimp the lotus & spring forest kick but come one man its not 100% true.

 

The Mayo Clinic refer patients to Chunyi Lin. The Mayo Clinic doctor Nisha Manek has coauthored a qigong chapter for a Mayo Clinic Textbook. Chunyi Lin teaches the Mayo Clinic doctors. The Mayo Clinic is the top hospital in the world!

 

Tantric Chakra Puja and methdology supersedes any "posture" or asana including Padmasana and meditation. 1 hour of real Tantra is the equivalent of 8 hours + of sitting in meditation by yourself.

 

What do you really know of real sexual tantra? How many hours + women have you made love too? How much milage do you really have in that field??? What has really changed?

Eternal Nature -- female formless nature -- pure awareness does not change! haha. Whenever I sit in full-lotus I "have" made love to females! haha.

 

Also where you in the same room with Gurdjieff to know if he never "achieved" what you are saying?

 

Gurdjieff stated these things himself and Gurdjieff is the ONLY other person I've seen describe the "O at a D" skill -- the psychic mutual climax. I know others do it but he was in a literary community which documented this ability, as detailed in Colin Wilson's book "The Occult."

 

 

 

seems like you are still also dependent on things out side of the ONE.

 

For there to be a "me" and a "you" -- of course it's out side of the "one"! haha. Anything communicated on this website it "outside of the one" -- writing, reading -- all "outside of the one!"

[Vajrahridaya]

 

 

A lot of people want to have their cake and eat it.

 

 

It's possible for those who have reached the first Bhumi or path of seeing who stick to their Samayas. Before that, renunciation of many types is quite necessary. From Bhumi one on you are learning integration and removing various subtle obstructions to full integration. So, one can integrate the state of high vision with all "normal" worldly activities but one's experience of these activities will be far from the "normal" capacity.

[Vajrasattva]

For there to be a "me" and a "you" -- of course it's out side of the "one"! haha. Anything communicated on this website it "outside of the one" -- writing, reading -- all "outside of the one!"

 

 

My friend you can sit in Lotus all you want it is not the same thing as being inside a real Pussy.....

 

that is like saying a guy that plays tekken martial arts video games is knowing how to actually fight in the real world....Sit and meditate all you want unless you know how to transmute in real time with a lover it wont matter.

 

You are a kid in tantra my friend. You and I both know that.

 

Tantric mastery is NOT dependant on a yoga "Asana".

 

Good luck or LICK.....

 

My friend you can sit in Lotus all you want it is not the same thing as being inside a real Pussy.....

 

that is like saying a guy that plays tekken martial arts video games is knowing how to actually fight in the real world....Sit and meditate all you want unless you know how to transmute in real time with a lover it wont matter.

 

You are a kid in tantra my friend. You and I both know that.

 

Tantric mastery is NOT dependent on a yoga "Asana".

 

Good luck or LICK.....

Edited October 19, 2009 by Vajrasattva

[NeiChuan]

Ha!

[Vajrahridaya]

My friend you can sit in Lotus all you want it is not the same thing as being inside a real Pussy.....

 

that is like saying a guy that plays tekken martial arts video games is knowing how to actually fight in the real world....Sit and meditate all you want unless you know how to transmute in real time with a lover it wont matter.

 

 

 

True indeed.

[voidisyinyang]

Especially those with E-Bay jobs -- more true than for others.....

[JustARandomPanda]

Well jing as in YIN electrochemical energy does not have to be from "females" per se but in terms of tantra it's preferable since females ALREADY have the internal climax that males in alchemy have to develop -- the parasympathetic vagus nerve climax

 

Man...I'd be happy just to know someday what a plain ol' run of the mill climax is like..much less internal, orgasmic body multiples.

 

 

*heavy sigh*

[r.w.smith]

ha ha ha

[Dreamingawake]

Man...I'd be happy just to know someday what a plain ol' run of the mill climax is like..much less internal, orgasmic body multiples.

*heavy sigh*

 

Unless your body is somehow completely wired wrong, you just need to find a guy who's more into making you feel good than just 'getting his.' Oh and he should have some kind of clue what he's doing.

[ramus]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGIS0CvGz00

 

 

AHAHAHA it seems that David has not enabled the possibility to comment!

really strange, what do you think?

maybe he realizes he has done plenty wrong in too many people and too many people eager to warn all those who have not yet been unfortunate enough to know him and even give him money!

 

 

:D

[Smile]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGIS0CvGz00

 

 

AHAHAHA it seems that David has not enabled the possibility to comment!

really strange, what do you think?

It's common especially if a person just want to share his point of view without others commenting on it. You can always post a video response if you want to.