I am back

[sean]

$3.50 a page for an e-book? And membership into a group that does very little good for those halfway across the world that can't physically be helped with things? How do you in any way have a good conscience with this? And that's not even the full course, just the beginning? I would love to hear from you how exactly you can justify the price of this course when you claim to be 'duty bound' to spread the Tao.

Hmmm... calculating the value of information per page. Do you buy your books by the pound?

 

Hypothetical situation: Let's say you knew someone that had spent the last 10 years deeply studying and investing in the stock market. Then one day they realized they had an incredible tip that they could summarize really effectively on a single typewritten page. This tip could easily make even a novice investor rich starting with only a $100 investment. What is that page worth? Is it worth more or less than a 900 page book of alphabetized American sitcom quotes?

 

I guess in a way it's relative to what you are looking for.

 

I've read single sentences that increased the quality of my life immeasurably. I've also read hundreds of pages of garbage that arguably set me back.

 

 

Best,

Sean

 

[edit]Reminds me of the story of the ship owner with a failing engine. He sought the advice of mechanic after mechanic but they all could not fix the problem. Finally he found an old man that has been working on ships his entire life. He called the old man in who arrived with a very modest box of tools. He looked over the engine as the ship owner and a few of his crew watched in anticipation. After several minutes the old man opened his box and reached directly for a tiny hammer. He opened up a small panel on the side of the engine and softly tapped something inside. He then slipped the hammer into his back pocket, flipped the engine switch and incredibly it came on perfectly.

 

A few days later the ship owner received a bill from the old man. The bill was for twenty thousand dollars.

 

"WTF?" he thought, "That old man was only here for less than 15 minutes!" He wrote a furious note to saying, "This is outrageous, please send me an itemized bill."

 

So the old man sent a bill that read,

 

Tapping with a hammer ---- $2

Knowing where to tap --- $19998

 

[witch]

If you want to pay by the page, really it makes more sense to pay by the photograph. I have to check my Frantzis book, but I think this one has more photographs and more detailed.

[WhiteTiger]

Nice story Sean!

 

I would be interested in hearing any more extra information about this before i delve into it, I think it could possibly be a great investment thus why I would buy the E-book.

 

Also I'm wondering if anyone has signed up so far for the group and got the E-book... what do they think?

*looks at Taomeow and Franklin and anyone else that is willing to answer the question*

[ZenStatic]

Sean, you make an excellent point. Considering there has been, so far, no corroboration of his claims, I am quite naturally wary. And let me show you exactly why.

 

I think I am duty bound to promote the ancient Tao in the world not only for Chinese.

 

Above, contradicts below.

 

Yet I do not have enough time to introduce our school in English in detail. I am leading a group of Chinese cultivators now, and I have to work for them first.

 

The following makes me wonder how much effort is really put into the english materials.

Yet I do not have the time to introduce this system in detail in English

 

The next makes me wonder if he should even be teaching at all then.

I do have some videos demostrated by my teacher, but he disallow me to distribute them

 

I have been engaged in this cultivation for a few years only

 

 

E-books cost nothing after the first is made. So it would seem that the bulk of the price is for the membership. Shame the group is mostly in China, as is mentioned before.

$49 is not only for an ebook, but also for the membership of our group

 

So he felt his first course, $49, may have contained too much for beginners. So he makes a beginners course, to teach material in the original first course without getting too advanced. But that truncated beginners course costs the same as the original first course?

Actually, now I feel my Internal Cultivation Course shows too much stuff for the beginners, and that is not necessary in the beginning. Therefore, I am working on a simple course now, it introduces Wuji Standing in detail. Wuji Standing is very simple and effective, even if one is a just beginner, and never has any experience in any practice, who can learn Wuji Standing correctly just follow the course without a present teacher.

 

The full version of my new course - "Wuji Standing" is now available, it is in PDF format, English version, 4.07MB, 14 pages, $49.

 

To compare to your analogies, this is like only getting the first paragraph of the stockbroking tip, telling you what you will need to trade stocks. And costing the same the entire document. Or of the old mechanic charging you $20k to tell you that he will use his little hammer to fix your boat.

[Taomeow]

Nice story Sean!

 

I would be interested in hearing any more extra information about this before i delve into it, I think it could possibly be a great investment thus why I would buy the E-book.

 

Also I'm wondering if anyone has signed up so far for the group and got the E-book... what do they think?

*looks at Taomeow and Franklin and anyone else that is willing to answer the question*

Well, I haven't but I don't want to discourage anyone else. Me, I'm a bit different from an "average" bum in that I study the basics to begin with, and Fuxi is my all-time hero, so it doesn't matter what I practice as long as I practice: everything works -- it's just a matter of doing it. I don't have a single practice that doesn't work, because I don't practice anything that is not Fuxi-based. If it doesn't work, it means I'm not practicing, it's that simple.

[Li Jiong]

My time is limited, but if there are more people sign up, I will distribute more time on English side, and more stuff will be available. Otherwise, nothing more will be offered.

Why did China develop so quickly in recent tens years? In substance, it is because the Xuanji matrix of China improved. I hope the Xuanji matrix of the world can be improved too, but if few people out of China are interested in this, I can do nothing about it.

[WhiteTiger]

Well, I haven't but I don't want to discourage anyone else. Me, I'm a bit different from an "average" bum in that I study the basics to begin with, and Fuxi is my all-time hero, so it doesn't matter what I practice as long as I practice: everything works -- it's just a matter of doing it. I don't have a single practice that doesn't work, because I don't practice anything that is not Fuxi-based. If it doesn't work, it means I'm not practicing, it's that simple.

 

Well stated. Thanks for the response.

Edited May 9, 2010 by WhiteTiger

[Taomeow]

Um... "different" does not imply either "superior" or "inferior" in my world. An elephant is different from a rose. This is not a statement of superiority, inferiority, or "separation." This is a statement of common sense. I like getting a bouquet of roses. No one has ever presented me with a bouquet of elephants. Maybe I would like it too, but it would sure be different.

 

I only said I'm different in that I've chosen to study the basics to begin with, a number of years ago, so I might not benefit from a course in Fuxi 101 to the same extent as someone who didn't spend a few years with Hetu and Luoshu might benefit from it. I didn't say I'm a master of the basics, I said I'm an aficionado of this approach. I like to start from the beginning. It's different from starting with breathing or the MCO or manipulating qi or what have you. The beginning is Fuxi.

 

I do believe starting from a random wherever place is like arranging elephants into a bouquet though. It's not an inferior practice, it's just... different. I don't practice elephants till I've mastered roses. Just a personal choice.

 

Oh, and I deflect all calls for unity which my Fuxiesque common sense cannot process. I have a special bounceback device for this in my mind. As soon as someone says, "we are all one, we are all the same, no one is different from anyone else," it goes ping... See, I believe what I perceive, and I perceive Hou Tian, and in Hou Tian, nothing is the same as anything else. But then, Hou Tian is also Fuxi, so if you aren't into that, you might not believe me. Which is fine. But since I am, I can't possibly pretend I am in Xian Tian when I manifest a post. In fact, anyone who manifests a post against manifestations cracks me up...

 

Regardless... I guess the best answer I can give you about Li Jiong's course is the simplest one: I haven't seen it, so I don't know. Sorry.

Edited July 28, 2008 by Taomeow

[Li Jiong]

Li Jiong. I find what you talk about extremely interesting... i know very little about what you have so far described, if you get into feelings and what they work on (I'm more of a Tao Bum that is not properly educated and only knows so few things (compared to decent masters) through experience and have yet to understand these things through proper education)

 

One other question if my interest is enough to buy these e-book is there any hope for a teacher to teach me these things near Bay Area Cali and if not, what offer is there on the table to be willing to put more pieces of e-books access free from charge or with very little charge in hopes of advancing if i can get that far with enough practice?

 

sorry for such a harassing questions Li Jiong, but basically I want to know is it worth it to spend the money or will this fall into a dead end even if i put the effort behind it to gain what i can from the teachings?

Hi WhiteTiger, I get into feelings and they work on through experience.

Edited September 6, 2008 by Li Jiong

[WhiteTiger]

Um... "different" does not imply either "superior" or "inferior" in my world. An elephant is different from a rose. This is not a statement of superiority, inferiority, or "separation." This is a statement of common sense. I like getting a bouquet of roses. No one has ever presented me with a bouquet of elephants. Maybe I would like it too, but it would sure be different.

 

I only said I'm different in that I've chosen to study the basics to begin with, a number of years ago, so I might not benefit from a course in Fuxi 101 to the same extent as someone who didn't spend a few years with Hetu and Luoshu might benefit from it. I didn't say I'm a master of the basics, I said I'm an aficionado of this approach. I like to start from the beginning. It's different from starting with breathing or the MCO or manipulating qi or what have you. The beginning is Fuxi.

 

I do believe starting from a random wherever place is like arranging elephants into a bouquet though. It's not an inferior practice, it's just... different. I don't practice elephants till I've mastered roses. Just a personal choice.

 

Oh, and I deflect all calls for unity which my Fuxiesque common sense cannot process. I have a special bounceback device for this in my mind. As soon as someone says, "we are all one, we are all the same, no one is different from anyone else," it goes ping... See, I believe what I perceive, and I perceive Hou Tian, and in Hou Tian, nothing is the same as anything else. But then, Hou Tian is also Fuxi, so if you aren't into that, you might not believe me. Which is fine. But since I am, I can't possibly pretend I am in Xian Tian when I manifest a post. In fact, anyone who manifests a post against manifestations cracks me up...

 

Regardless... I guess the best answer I can give you about Li Jiong's course is the simplest one: I haven't seen it, so I don't know. Sorry.

 

Great information... I liked this post.

 

Li Jiong, I really appreciate you doing that kind of deal with me. Specially because I've already got a somewhat explaination from Taomeow of these are the basics and something I understand I am missing I could definately not lose for putting in 9$.

 

Please sent me a PM Li Jiong with where I should pay the 9$ and what medthod.

Edited May 9, 2010 by WhiteTiger

[WhiteTiger]

Hi WhiteTiger, I get into feelings and they work on through experience.

In the past thousands of years, our school was very secret, and the practitioners were very few. Just in recent tens of years, Mr. Seawater taught thousands of students, but among them, till now, the number of the ones who achieve a certain level that he/she can feel Xuanji matrix is less than 100, and as far as know, these ones are all in China. Only when one forms his own Xuanji matrix and can feel it, he/she is able to be a qualified teacher of Xuanji shool, so, yet it is impossible to get a qualified teacher of Xuanji shool out of China.

 

I assume you are you a qualified teacher of Xuanji school and that can form your own Xuanji matrix and can feel it?

 

Am I correct in my assumption?

 

Editing because i missed spelled Xuanji and I also worded the question in a way that i think could have been seen as disrespectful so, i reworded it

Edited July 29, 2008 by WhiteTiger

[Franklin]

Nice story Sean!

 

I would be interested in hearing any more extra information about this before i delve into it, I think it could possibly be a great investment thus why I would buy the E-book.

 

Also I'm wondering if anyone has signed up so far for the group and got the E-book... what do they think?

*looks at Taomeow and Franklin and anyone else that is willing to answer the question*

 

i am probably not the best one to answer the question as i really do not have knowledge of his recent works to share

 

(when i get some more money available for things outside of just surviving I will probably support Li Jiong and purchase his courses- I thought the information in his Yi Quan course was good )

 

i had purchased Li Jiong's Yi Quan course many years ago (i am an avid researcher of traditional chinese martial arts and cultivation)

the version of the course that i got was before it was revised-

the newer version i think he lists as 600 and some pages which is much larger than the course that I purchased

that being said- the course that i received was very complete, and detailed the training in a very logical and easy to follow manner.

 

unfortunately I can not comment on following the course myself- it was purchased for informational purposes- as i have my own practices that take up my time... but like i said it did benefit me and enhance my understanding of things

 

some of the approaches to teaching material that were in the course I actually tried on my own students- namely introducing exercises to get the student to have a certain feeling and then using that feeling that was developed in another exercise- seems like a good way get people to understand what an exercise is about

 

 

Franklin

 

edit

I spent a night reading the cultivation groups past discussion- there are many very insightful answers that Li Jiong gives to questions about the yi quan course- he seems to really want to answer the questions posed- and some of the answers were helpful to my own understanding of martial arts..

just thought i would add that

Edited July 29, 2008 by Franklin

[WhiteTiger]

Thank you very much for the information Franklin, and i appreciate it.

 

I'm definately happy in the choice to choose to at least buy 9$ of 4 pages worth. As long as It talks about things I have no idea about it shall still help me out in my investigation in proper practices and proper education.

[Li Jiong]

I assume you are you a qualified teacher of Xuanji school and that can form your own Xuanji matrix and can feel it?

 

Am I correct in my assumption?

 

Yes, you are right. And actually, now I am the only one who is promoting Xuanji cultivation on the internet, whatever in Chinese or English.

[Li Jiong]

...

Edited September 6, 2008 by Li Jiong

[Li Jiong]

A Chinese student of mine did have serious coronary heart disease, after practising Wuji Standing for less than one year (he started practice at October, 2007), his coronary heart disease cured now. So please don't belittle Wuji Standing just because it seems so simple. Actually, only simple things can really work, especially for a long-distance study without a teacher teaching you face to face.

[sheng zhen]

I somehow got attracted to Li Jiongs course so I bought it a week or so ago. It might have been I just was easily affected by his Xuanji-field

 

But the practice is great. Its a Zhang Zhuang kind of practice that delivers what it promises. I like the framework of wuji, taiji, yin and then yang.

 

I felt at first a little dissapointed when I bought it because I was hoping for more information, but after Ive practiced it I have no problem with the value he has set on it. And the fact that he is available for questions and other treats through his yahoo-group is a very generous offer.

 

Edit: Just a thought... this might actually be something for Salaam from finland and others without a teacher in their neighbourhood. The practice is safe, healing, gives a good and practical connection to qi and taoist philosphy, and you get someone to ask about the things that happen in training.

Edited July 31, 2008 by sheng zhen

[Junbao]

sheng zhen,

 

If you don't mind me asking, did you start with the Wuji Standing Course, or the Cultivation 1 course.

 

Thanks!

[sheng zhen]

sheng zhen,

 

If you don't mind me asking, did you start with the Wuji Standing Course, or the Cultivation 1 course.

 

Thanks!

Hey, I dont mind at all

 

I got the cultivation 1 course because I thought just wuji would be too simple for my veryveryvery experienced ass

 

But now Im actually considering the wuji course too...

[thaddeus]

Li Jiong,

In your courses do you explain stretching the tendons during standing practice, or anything similar to muscle/tendon changing practice?

I would be interested in learning more about that.

Thanks,

T

[Junbao]

I am going to be starting with the Wuji Standing. I think there is some info in there that is not in the Cultivation 1 course. I'll let you know how it goes.

[sheng zhen]

I am going to be starting with the Wuji Standing. I think there is some info in there that is not in the Cultivation 1 course. I'll let you know how it goes.

Yea! Great!

[Li Jiong]

Li Jiong,

In your courses do you explain stretching the tendons during standing practice, or anything similar to muscle/tendon changing practice?

I would be interested in learning more about that.

Thanks,

T

In my KungFu (Yiquan) course, I explain stretching the tendons during standing practice as well as during moving practice (Shili). To say exactly, these things are in KungFu (Yiquan) Course_II

 

I am going to be starting with the Wuji Standing. I think there is some info in there that is not in the Cultivation 1 course. I'll let you know how it goes.

I've sent a copy of "Wuji Standing" to you, and also invited you to join our group at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cultivation/, please feel free to sign in.

[Li Jiong]

...

Edited September 6, 2008 by Li Jiong

[WhiteTiger]

A Chinese student of mine did have serious coronary heart disease, after practising Wuji Standing for less than one year (he started practice at October, 2007), his coronary heart disease cured now. So please don't belittle Wuji Standing just because it seems so simple. Actually, only simple things can really work, especially for a long-distance study without a teacher teaching you face to face.

 

I did not mean to come across disrespectful and I'm sorry if i did. I did not mean to come off saying its not gratifying to learn something so basic. Basic things can be a good strong foundation fixing weaker foundations. This is as i understand an important rule to follow. I'm sorry if i came across like I was saying basic things aren't gratifying.

 

I think with me a lot of the things get lost in the translation unless you openly come up and start talking about the more specifics to conform weather I'm doing something proper or not. Otherwise I often see it as unworthy. Maybe this in my own illusion but simply put, I normally don't feel comfortable unless I'm practicing with the teacher or they are willing to openly explain the all the finer details.