weird that money is holding me back....

[mouse]

Modest fellow aren't you...

 

Your comments on taiji and energy storing are wrong. That is unless you know more than Chen Xiao Wang and the late Wang Peisheng on this matter?

 

The storing of energy in the dantien is a fundamental part of taijiquan, according to the esteemed Grandmasters of the art I cite above. Chen is the head of the Chen family art and Wang was the head of the Beijing Wu family art.

 

I know people who have studied under these lineages and masters, so I am not quoting 'Inside Kung Fu' here.

 

How about I cite one of Beijing's most revered Bagua masters as well?

 

"Without Neigong all Bagua techniques are good for nothing and there is no use to practice them."

 

http://www.chinafrominside.com/ma/bagua/machuanxu.html

 

What would he know? He is only president of the Beijing Baguazhang Research Association.

 

To become the disciple of Chinese martial arts masters it is common practise to pay a large sum of money. Yes, I know this from experience and on more than one occasion. It is part of the culture. Given your eagerness to explain to us ignorant sorts your knowledge of the Chinese language and culture, I would have thought you would know that.

 

So, let me see. I've been accepted into three separate esoteric traditions, all of which contained neigong. The combined knowledge of those schools exceeds three thousand years. The teachers I've met can back up what they say with demonstrations.

 

I live in China also.

 

Do feel free to site you sources to back up your claims. If they can trump mine I will be more than happy to acknowledge it. Can you do better than two taijiquan grandmasters and a bagua master?

 

Best,

 

Mike

 

 

Mike,

 

I do not have a fight to pick with you but your posts seem rather aggressive. I shall try to answer each one of your points from my knowledge.

 

I must stress again that these are my views as my practice has brought me to. You have other experiences

and of course feel differently.

 

I am Chinese. so to answer your question on giving my view on the Chinese culture I can only go with what I grew up with. I do however, live in Australia now.

 

Chen guys do not practice Taiji in my opinion. It is common view within Chen circles that they themselves believe that their lineage has lost it. Their push hands competitions are wrestling matches and do not hold Taiji principles save for on the surface. Many Chen masters here in Australia have knee reconstuctions due to the stress on their un-natural low stance to try and mimic good rooting. Good rooting happens with proper structure with the physical then slowly inward with the astral/energetic body. Wai4 Jing4 is not Nei4 Jing4 which is proper Fa1 jing4.

 

I do not know Wang Peishan nor the President of the Beijing Baguazhang Institute.

 

It is not true that genuine masters seek great sums of money for tutelage. Those on path of practice do not seek money but students with the right aplitude to be trained and also fate.

 

As for using Dantien to house 'chi' that is correct. It is what we consider Chi4 Hai3 or "the Chi Ocean". This energy is circulated around our bodies during form work or partner work and is returned to the dantien to settle there.

 

With storing I mean active harnesing of energy from surrounds and packing it into the dantien. It is not healthy and leads to unstable emotional states.

 

Neigong means internal work. We use neigong or chigong to open up.clear up meridians so that chi flows through the whole body with no blockages. Neigong does not mean storing energy.

 

I hope this clears up any misunderstanding you may have on your end.

 

Again, my intentions are good meaninged and not a personal attack to anyone in particular here.

 

Enjoy your practice.

[mantis]

in the same article you posted mjjbecker it agrees with what mouse is saying

 

JS: So what is "Neigong"?

 

MR.MA: Neigong is Dantian. You have to attain high skill in Intent (Yinian) practice and develop sufficient Internal Qi. It's like electricity. Dantian, three inches below belly button, once developed is like a leather ball. Dantian becomes the place where all Internal Qi of your body gathers, it's like electric field. Then Qi - which is felt as a stream of heat - flows from Hui Yin Point through lumbar vertebra, cervical vertebra, Bai Hui Point (the hot feeling is extremely strong there), Mu Quan Point, Tian Mu Point, Ren Tong Point.

[dao zhen]

 

I do not know Wang Peishan nor the President of the Beijing Baguazhang Institute.

 

 

Master Wang Peisheng - Yin Cheng - was my first master in China.

 

We had a wonderful connection, and he asked me to be his disciple; which I turned down for personal reasons.

 

I met him by chance.

 

A Buddhist monk in Japan gave me his phone number and told me to call him when I arrived in Beijing.

 

I had no idea who he was, or how famous he was.

 

I told some Taiji players in Temple of Heaven park I was going to study with him, and they pleaded with me to take them with me to the lessons!

 

I started to understand he was someone of importance.

 

He took me into his home, and we had tea in his bedroom.

 

He told me to ask him anything, and also that he would teach me anything; as we had destiny together.

 

I asked him what is the root essence of Kung Fu.........

 

His eyes sparkled and he stood up and gave a long animated lecture on Qi, Yin and Yang, and the internal theory and principle that made up the root of proper Kung Fu practice.

 

Actually, he was a master of Pa Kua Zhang before he was a master in Taiji.

 

Yin Fu Lineage and also Cheng Ting Hua lineage.

 

He was awesome, a real old school master and a gentleman.

 

He had an amazing skill in issuing power, and it seemed he could even just push you around with direction from his eyes............

 

He could just launch you up in the air with no effort at all.

 

His push hand skill is like something I have yet to encounter; his son is good, but states he is less than 15% of the skill his father has.

 

I have very fond memories of him and the time we spent together..........

 

Here are some nice videos........

 

push hand principle

 

free style movement

 

linear pa kua zhang

 

seven stars

 

push hands applications

[gendao]

Actually, this is not weird at all. I've noticed a good % of spiritual seekers are not grounded in our 3rd density world and suffer poverty due to their flighty escapism.

 

Nevermind the fact that you do need money and resources to survive...and additional money can help fund additional instruction.

 

Remember, denial is a form of attachment too...

 

That is why Buddha settled on the Middle Way, after experiencing life as both a wealthy prince and an ascetic.

 

Well, whatever works for you. But, I think sometimes you have to meet your survival needs first and build a solid foundation in this realm before striving up higher. Otherwise, it may limit you at some point. I know several seekers who refuse to work regular jobs just to "train" all day. Cuz working "just isn't fun!" And I think they find varying degrees of success. One thing is, they become very limited in their frog wells as they can't afford to seek out additional instruction. Hence, they can easily get stuck in isolationism. And another thing is that they just pass the buck for all their bills on to family members and friends - who must then pick up their financial slack. They are "too good" to work "real" jobs on their own, but rely heavily upon society to essentially, do such "dirty work" for them.

 

Remind me of starving artists who are too noble to "sell-out" themselves, yet not too noble to take handouts from other "sell-outs"...

 

Personally, I wouldn't think of it in terms of money - so much as self-sufficiency, independence and self-reliance. Money is just a means to that end. So, I would at least try to handle your own biz and not become a burden on others.

Edited July 14, 2008 by vortex

[Pranaman]

Many Chen masters here in Australia have knee reconstuctions due to the stress on their un-natural low stance to try and mimic good rooting. Good rooting happens with proper structure with the physical then slowly inward with the astral/energetic body.

 

My teacher says to never stress the knee, never let it go to the sides, nor past the toes. With such limits I can't see there being any problems. His american name is Gregory Fong. He is a good teacher. He's learned Northern Shoalin style from Sifu Yim Sheung Mo. He has also learned from Master Chen Xiaowang. I-chuan from Master Yu Yong Nian(direct student of Master Wang Xiangzhai), Wang Yu Fang(Master Wang's daughter) and Master Po Jar Chung. Praying Mantis Kung-fu from Sifu Chan Yin Yee. He's also studied in Wu style. Wang PeiShang teaches Wu style? There are pictures of him with many other teachers but I don't know if he spent significant amounts of time with them. Anybody know anything about these teachers?

 

Anyway i'm learning Chen style from him, soon I-chuan and Kung-fu once I'm healthier and have more money, but I don't believe that this style has 'lost it'. Maybe elsewhere. I'm new so I have no support of anything I say but my own logic and feeling. I will become healthier and balanced. I will have good structure. To me it seems like the form in Chen certainly teaches the flow of energy from one leg to the other. And we also have to learn how to direct energy from our feet and earth, through our body to generate greater power. I'm only a month in, i have alot to learn and i'm stoked.

 

I really do have to take matters into my own hands. That is for sure. I'm just new to the idea of qigong that I hadn't quite grasped that the best thing I can do is learn for myself. I thought I could do that at the beginning but many many people seemed to believe that qigong can harm you. I don't understand this, possibly the type of qigong discussed earlier, storing in the dantien. but they were talking about M.Chia's where you generally just use the energy already in your dantian. Anyway, thank you all very much.

[mouse]

Pranaman, these principles your teacher is teaching you are correct. Knees never past toes, nor to the side.

 

However, keeping within these principles knees are often rotated in Chen style. The grinding of knee joints are not natural. The natural knee movement is front and back only.

 

I have read Gregory Fungs articles from another post on the boards. He has good principles in there and though I never met him, his writings are genuine in my opinion. May you become good yourself.

 

Remember, many masters do not give proper transmission be it oral or energetic due to fear of student surpassing them. A very good indication of a good teacher is when their students can reach the same level or surpass him/her. It means teachings are given in whole and complete.

 

Do note that in his articles he makes reference to Huang Hsing Hsian. He is part of the lineage I train in. He is an accomplished meditator and a true Taiji master. He surpasses Chen Man Ching and it is very clear to watch from his Youtube videos that CMC's issue is not as refined.

 

You may like to watch Ma Yue Liang as well. Believe he might be under Wu Style but can't be sure as I do not train under that lineage for Taiji,

 

Enjoy your practice.

[mjjbecker]

in the same article you posted mjjbecker it agrees with what mouse is saying

 

I posted in reference to this:

 

Storing energy is unhealthy and magnifies emotions leading to unstable states. Energy is all around you and can be manipulated without storing.

 

It was a general comment and it was wrong. Further clarification in another post does not change that.

 

Best,

 

Mike

[Pranaman]

Pranaman, these principles your teacher is teaching you are correct. Knees never past toes, nor to the side.

 

However, keeping within these principles knees are often rotated in Chen style. The grinding of knee joints are not natural. The natural knee movement is front and back only.

 

I have read Gregory Fungs articles from another post on the boards. He has good principles in there and though I never met him, his writings are genuine in my opinion. May you become good yourself.

 

Remember, many masters do not give proper transmission be it oral or energetic due to fear of student surpassing them. A very good indication of a good teacher is when their students can reach the same level or surpass him/her. It means teachings are given in whole and complete.

 

Do note that in his articles he makes reference to Huang Hsing Hsian. He is part of the lineage I train in. He is an accomplished meditator and a true Taiji master. He surpasses Chen Man Ching and it is very clear to watch from his Youtube videos that CMC's issue is not as refined.

 

You may like to watch Ma Yue Liang as well. Believe he might be under Wu Style but can't be sure as I do not train under that lineage for Taiji,

 

Enjoy your practice.

 

He has been practicing 40+ years I think. The most anyone in his class have practiced is 10 years or so I believe. So until many many years later when these people have been practicing nearly as long, is when I'll see if they are nearly as equal as him? Right now this isn't so.

[mjjbecker]

Mike,

 

I do not have a fight to pick with you but your posts seem rather aggressive. I shall try to answer each one of your points from my knowledge.

 

I must stress again that these are my views as my practice has brought me to. You have other experiences

and of course feel differently.

 

I am Chinese. so to answer your question on giving my view on the Chinese culture I can only go with what I grew up with. I do however, live in Australia now.

 

Chen guys do not practice Taiji in my opinion. It is common view within Chen circles that they themselves believe that their lineage has lost it. Their push hands competitions are wrestling matches and do not hold Taiji principles save for on the surface. Many Chen masters here in Australia have knee reconstuctions due to the stress on their un-natural low stance to try and mimic good rooting. Good rooting happens with proper structure with the physical then slowly inward with the astral/energetic body. Wai4 Jing4 is not Nei4 Jing4 which is proper Fa1 jing4.

 

I do not know Wang Peishan nor the President of the Beijing Baguazhang Institute.

 

It is not true that genuine masters seek great sums of money for tutelage. Those on path of practice do not seek money but students with the right aplitude to be trained and also fate.

 

As for using Dantien to house 'chi' that is correct. It is what we consider Chi4 Hai3 or "the Chi Ocean". This energy is circulated around our bodies during form work or partner work and is returned to the dantien to settle there.

 

With storing I mean active harnesing of energy from surrounds and packing it into the dantien. It is not healthy and leads to unstable emotional states.

 

Neigong means internal work. We use neigong or chigong to open up.clear up meridians so that chi flows through the whole body with no blockages. Neigong does not mean storing energy.

 

I hope this clears up any misunderstanding you may have on your end.

 

Again, my intentions are good meaninged and not a personal attack to anyone in particular here.

 

Enjoy your practice.

 

mouse,

 

"Sweet words are not sincere, sincere words are not sweet"

 

You know the quote?

 

If you have something to say, then do it clearly and specifically the first time. It will prevent the need for you to have to clear up 'misunderstandings'. My friend, there was no misunderstanding. You made statements which were simply wrong. Please don't play redirection on me-I used to practice and was given permission to teach taijiquan myself.

 

I am aware of the issues regarding Chen style, including the comments and research of the late Wu Tunan. However, someone I respect greatly happens to respect Chen Xiaowang greatly. That being the case I will take his word on the effectiveness of the method. My own practice was not in Chen style.

 

You would do well to look up some of the teachers who learned under Wang if you do have an interest in 'real' taijiquan.

 

Many masters DO seek payment from students who wish to become disciples. Yes, they may wave or reduce the amount depending on their feelings, but it IS a COMMON and WIDESPREAD practice. I'm sorry if you don't agree with this but it is a fact.

 

'Sigh'...I am well aware that neigong moves qi, thank you very much. I can use my intent to move qi and emit it from different points. Neigong DOES require the storing of energy in the dantien. Your previous comment regarding energy not needing to be stored as simply wrong.

 

As for the packing of qi, you are wrong. It is a fundamental part of neigong, as taught by John Chang of the Mo Pai and the traditional, real, taijiquan neigong. It is also referenced by other masters, including Henry Look and Dr John Painter, (discussed in a published interview-one of the few really good things printed in 'IKF').

 

Taking energy from the environment is wrong? Well, you'd better warn Wang Liping then, because the collecting of qi from trees is clearly mentioned in his book. Clearly the Dragon Gate lineage don't know what they are getting themselves into. Also, similar practices are mentioned by Alex Kozma as taught to him by his bagua master in Taiwan. You can read about that in his book, 'Esoteric Warriors'.

 

Now, you are right in regards to the increase of energy affecting peoples emotions. This I have seen and experienced myself. On one simple level, it can be put down to the increase in testosterone that is produced in the body. However, energy work effects emotions, releases old stored feelings in the body. Its part of the process and is widely discussed among different people who practice energy work.

 

My friend, if I need any misunderstandings clearing up I will ask my teacher, who can not only talk about these things, but demonstrate them also.

 

I did not accuse you of making any personal attack and I did not take your comments as one. I simply took them for what they were-incorrect. You have since added some more clarification of your opinion. In future it would be nice to state things clearly, without generalisation, in the first instance. It saves this back and forth. However, as I have stated here, some of what you say still simply is not the case-not if we are to believe some fairly eminent masters of these methods. If you can find me someone who shows a higher level of attainment than John Chang or my own teacher, who espouses your views, I will be happy to listen. Until then I have to go with the 'show me the money' school of thought.

 

Opinion is fine, but experience is King.

 

Best,

 

Mike

[Taiji Bum]

Opinion is fine, but experience is King.

Videos are good too! Not the teacher versus his/her own students but in a real match. Otherwise its called a circle jerk.

[mouse]

Mike,

 

With packing of chi in dantien it is practiced in many traditions. I used to do it as well under a taoist teacher by gathering chi from surrounds and circulating around body through daoyin exercises and storing in dantien.

 

Through my time with this teacher, I found my emotions amplified. My meditation was what kept me in check as I was aware of the changes in emotional states. Good for noting in mindfulness practice.

 

Over time, I saw past the powerful displays of chi like moving people with 'Shen' (actual dragging of student across floor without touch), paralysing students into seizures with a touch behind the neck, creating a shield at areas to be protected and felt like you were kicking a wall etc. He was very good with what he did.

 

But I also found a teacher who had no capable students. No one could issue. No technique was taught beyond the superficial, his emotions were brash and abrupt and had other emotional states which were unstable in my view. I had the priviledge of meeting two other masters in that year who ascribe to the no packing of chi modal of practice. Both could issue through sinking (chen2) which causes a rising or floating energy of the surround or opponent which puts your energetic center off balance and a touch would make you fall due to yourself being taken 'off center' already.

 

Other traditions can choose to pack chi and is the fundamental part of their practice. It is their choice. You quote John Chang's practice, I happen to have bought the book the earlier stages when I first started energetic work as I was enchanted by the raw power displayed.

 

If says that many die in the process to go from level 3-4. And even in level 1, students are discouraged from touching hands as their power is so raw and cannot be contained and could maim or kill my the energy being unleashed as a reaction.

 

I do believe that these practices have their place in someone's hands who have a spiritual practice for moral guidance. However, as I said before, the practice is in my opinion not worth doing. Other methods can achieve the same results as chi is all around us. Intention leads. Uprooting someone in another building is possible by sending astral body out and sinking to cause rising in other person then issuing. Happens in no touch issues but many have not felt before.

 

The real question is "is there a need to do so?"

 

Over my time in practice, I started to see how the greed for this power had blinded me. It was pointless to be able to drag someone across the floor with intention, or condense their energy in their dantien my using "compressing" chi to disable them from disrupting their energy flow etc. I choose to remain mindful of my thoughts, speech and action and use my practice for liberation or healing others.

 

One saying my current teacher/friend has stuck with me is: "Dhamma and healing are the two best gifts you can give anyone... Healing comes second."

 

My intention to replying to Pranaman if you read from the start is to point him in the right direction. I cannot choose for anyone their choice of practice. A teacher I respect very much and is no longer in this realm has once said that, "no matter how much you eat, you can never satisfy another person's hunger." This is to mean that you cannot help another person practice. They have to do their own practice for liberation. He was Ajahn Lee's Disciple if you are familiar with the Thai Forest Tradition.

 

I take the time to answer each point not to feed an argument but to clarify some thoughts I have on the original question by Pranaman.

 

To each their own, I wish you well and enjoy your practice.

 

PS: I had a look at Master Wang Peisheng's youtube videos. Thank you for it. He teaches genuine Taiji and his issues are clean and refined. Dao Zhen, you have had good fortune to have had his instruction. Many people do not have the chance to study under such a teacher.

[mouse]

DarinHamel,

 

videos actually have their limitations too. Energetic work must be felt to be understood.

 

Some issues can look very powerful like Master Yeung aka Lama Dondrup Dorje but do not give the full picture. He is very skilled though as I have met him twice before.

 

Sometimes when students fly off in a direction or bounce, it is due to not rooting the energy properly. They may be taught form but not proper structure/rooting hence once the teacher can get an energetic lock on the student, he can pull their energetic/astral body out from the physical body and then the body has to follow. Once the two bodies merge back together, you'll see the relief/bliss on their faces as they are in a place where they feel comfortable. Many, me included are still very much tied/attached to this physical body.

 

Proper taiji push hands that have very clean issues throught the energetic center causes the opponent to "pop" both feet off the ground. The better your rooting, the more clean it looks. Students with no rooting will stumble rather than pop as their structure collapses everywhere else rather than at the Kidney-1 spots on the soles of the feet. This is the bubbling spring or Long2 Chuen2 where most taiji folks draw energy from ground.

 

Clean issuing will not look like a shove.

 

The limitation with videos is that sometimes when dealing with energetic bodies rather than physical especially when training sensitivity, it looks like it is fake. Sometimes when the opponent is uprooted and their energetic body is sucked into the vacuum left behind from the sinking into the ground, it feels like they are being sucked out of their body then "pop!" you've been issued upon.

 

This video can give you some overview of what the different energies can look like when manifested on the astral body. There is minimal physical movement so as to train the sensitivity of finding and hiding your energetic centre.

 

 

Enjoy your practice.

[bronzebow]

 

I had the priviledge of meeting two other masters in that year who ascribe to the no packing of chi modal of practice. Both could issue through sinking (chen2) which causes a rising or floating energy of the surround or opponent which puts your energetic center off balance and a touch would make you fall due to yourself being taken 'off center' already.

 

 

 

Hi Mouse,

 

Who are the two masters that you mentioned here? It's interesting that I get a feeling from the way that you are describing the type of tai chi you practice as being similar to a teacher I met once who explained that he practiced tai chi with a vipassana and emptiness cultivation that was different from other teachers I met.

[mjjbecker]

Mike,

 

With packing of chi in dantien it is practiced in many traditions. I used to do it as well under a taoist teacher by gathering chi from surrounds and circulating around body through daoyin exercises and storing in dantien.

 

Through my time with this teacher, I found my emotions amplified. My meditation was what kept me in check as I was aware of the changes in emotional states. Good for noting in mindfulness practice.

 

Powerful energy work can be hell on the emotions.

 

Over time, I saw past the powerful displays of chi like moving people with 'Shen' (actual dragging of student across floor without touch), paralysing students into seizures with a touch behind the neck, creating a shield at areas to be protected and felt like you were kicking a wall etc. He was very good with what he did.

 

But I also found a teacher who had no capable students. No one could issue. No technique was taught beyond the superficial, his emotions were brash and abrupt and had other emotional states which were unstable in my view. I had the priviledge of meeting two other masters in that year who ascribe to the no packing of chi modal of practice. Both could issue through sinking (chen2) which causes a rising or floating energy of the surround or opponent which puts your energetic center off balance and a touch would make you fall due to yourself being taken 'off center' already.

 

There is no shortage of people teaching this stuff incorrectly. They publish books and make their coin, but I wouldn't want their karma. There is NO substitute for a GOOD teacher with this training. That is morally and technically good.

Other traditions can choose to pack chi and is the fundamental part of their practice. It is their choice. You quote John Chang's practice, I happen to have bought the book the earlier stages when I first started energetic work as I was enchanted by the raw power displayed.

 

I was never enchanted personally. One of the reasons I found myself able to let go of the practices from that school and move on. Unfortunately some cannot and some are rather unwisely still chasing this. When I have the time I will write in more detail about some of my experiences on my blog. For me this is my fate, and I have actually tried to avoid this path because it is very hard to do. However, it is to be. For each their own path awaits

 

If says that many die in the process to go from level 3-4. And even in level 1, students are discouraged from touching hands as their power is so raw and cannot be contained and could maim or kill my the energy being unleashed as a reaction.

 

People have died or been seriously injured just doing the level 2 practice. Level one is no stroll in the part either. That said, you need to be at level 2 before your touch will kill. It doesn't maim, it kills. Again, I will go into more on that another time.

I do believe that these practices have their place in someone's hands who have a spiritual practice for moral guidance. However, as I said before, the practice is in my opinion not worth doing. Other methods can achieve the same results as chi is all around us. Intention leads. Uprooting someone in another building is possible by sending astral body out and sinking to cause rising in other person then issuing. Happens in no touch issues but many have not felt before.

 

My own feelings are the Mo Pai teachings are ONLY suitable for mountain hermit practitioners.

 

In regards to other methods achieving the same, in some part yes, but on the level you talk about Neigong trumps most. I'm not going to go into why.

 

The real question is "is there a need to do so?"

 

Over my time in practice, I started to see how the greed for this power had blinded me. It was pointless to be able to drag someone across the floor with intention, or condense their energy in their dantien my using "compressing" chi to disable them from disrupting their energy flow etc. I choose to remain mindful of my thoughts, speech and action and use my practice for liberation or healing others.

 

I'm pleased for you, I genuinely am. Seeking power over others to harm or control them is wrong. Myself I was blessed with a teacher who shows remarkable compassion.

 

One saying my current teacher/friend has stuck with me is: "Dhamma and healing are the two best gifts you can give anyone... Healing comes second."

 

My intention to replying to Pranaman if you read from the start is to point him in the right direction. I cannot choose for anyone their choice of practice.

That is good, and I respect that. Also, on a moral level we don't differ at all.

 

A teacher I respect very much and is no longer in this realm has once said that, "no matter how much you eat, you can never satisfy another person's hunger." This is to mean that you cannot help another person practice. They have to do their own practice for liberation. He was Ajahn Lee's Disciple if you are familiar with the Thai Forest Tradition.

 

One of my gong fu brothers has studied with high level Thai meditation masters. I have complete respect for them and their attainments. I never said neigong was the only way or path .

 

I take the time to answer each point not to feed an argument but to clarify some thoughts I have on the original question by Pranaman.

 

Splendid, and I have enjoyed reading them. I am sure your experiences serve as a valuable warning to others and I thank you for sharing them.

To each their own, I wish you well and enjoy your practice.

Absolutely, and my best wishes to you also.

 

PS: I had a look at Master Wang Peisheng's youtube videos. Thank you for it. He teaches genuine Taiji and his issues are clean and refined. Dao Zhen, you have had good fortune to have had his instruction. Many people do not have the chance to study under such a teacher.

 

 

It is a great regret of mine I never had a chance to meet the man in person. Some of what I have read and been told about him shows what a high level he had attained. His method of Wu taijiquan is a truly wonderful practice.

 

Best,

 

Mike

[Spectrum]

BTT- Perhaps some classical texts that reference "packing" ?

[Rolf]

ok so whos the man lol

[mouse]

ok so whos the man lol

 

Rolf,

 

Sorry? What do you mean?

 

If you meant the teacher bronzebow is talking about, we have communicated via pm. We believe he may have met someone in the lineage.

 

Spectrum,

 

I do not really study much into classical texts although they are considered to be a must for some. Reason being, I follow my teacher's direction and to me that is sufficient. Why add confusion to practice? Sometimes the texts can be interpreted in many ways and then I need to seek clarification. You can sometimes go down the wrong direction until you next meet your teacher.

 

With packing of chi, again, it is done in many traditions but housing it is different from packing it. One is forced, the other is natural. In the earlier stages of my practice, I was packing and condensing chi from surrounds and the dantien was like a overinflated ball. It is hard to describe but daily I packed and it was so forced. Like trying to continue inflating a basketball. Was tough and energy kept leaking back out the same channels they were pumped in.

 

In taoism, one taoist teacher always said, "Don't Struggle". Struggling is against the Tao.

 

It will be interesting to hear about other people from these traditions who do pack/condense into bones/marrow/dantien etc and hear their experience.

 

To all, enjoy your practice.