Daoist Muscle Tendon Change classic

[Wun Yuen Gong]

Ok, i read ages ago on Foundation forum that Yi Jin Jing "Muscle Tendon Change classic was not from Buddhism but from Daoism.

 

Anyone know the full story on that discussion of the old Foundation forum?

 

WYG

[dao zhen]

I have heard stories from my elder Taoist brother that DaMo had a Taoist teacher when he came to China.

 

Who knows for sure............

 

I would like to hear a legendary story on the subject though.

 

I know my teacher seems to hold DaMo in high regards, yet has also spoken of him as if he was a Taoist Immortal or from the Taoist school.

 

My teacher uses this method of Tendon Changing and Marrow Washing in the first stages of sitting practice to help open the channels, and cultivate the Qi in the Dantien.

 

He has said that really the name should be looked at as such:

 

Tendon Changing = opening meridian.

 

Tendon is a metaphor for meridian.

 

Marrow washing = to discipline and purify the heart.

 

Marrow is a metaphor for heart.

 

I think different schools may have different ideas, methods and meaning of terms.

 

I was very surprised when I was trained in this method.

 

After seven days of the training, all the channels were open in the body, and the Qi circulation was so strong and full that even coming into the training with 15 years of previous experience, I never could have imagined that Qi and Qi flow could feel like that.

 

The transformation of the body, visual phenomenon, Qi sensation, and body sensation were unlike anything previously encountered, read about or heard about from others.

 

Also after 15 years of intensive study in Pakua Zhang and Hsing Yi Chuan, it was the most intense and painful training I had ever undergone; from the standpoint of mental and physical hardship and related pain.

 

Really if you train in depth with real Taoist methods, you may come to understand that you have approached life and training with a very limited imagination.

 

What is the reality, and what you imagine may be very far apart from each other and unrelated.

[gendao]

After seven days of the training, all the channels were open in the body, and the Qi circulation was so strong and full that even coming into the training with 15 years of previous experience, I never could have imagined that Qi and Qi flow could feel like that.

 

The transformation of the body, visual phenomenon, Qi sensation, and body sensation were unlike anything previously encountered, read about or heard about from others.

 

Also after 15 years of intensive study in Pakua Zhang and Hsing Yi Chuan, it was the most intense and painful training I had ever undergone; from the standpoint of mental and physical hardship and related pain.

Wow, that's pretty amazing.

 

So, are such results typical? Or was it possibly just the last straw on the camel's back that unleashed what you had already been building up through all those other years of practice?

 

Is this technique described on your site? I know it can't be transmitted effectively over text, but I'm just kinda curious about a glossover of the basic method.

[Oolong Rabbit]

Hi Dao Zhen,

 

I realize time does not always equate to effort, but can you tell us roughly how much time per day you were practicing Yi Jin Jing. Also are you free to share how many different postures the form you practiced entailed?

 

Many thanks!

[Sahaj Nath]

for those interested, Sifu Jesse Tsao offers a form of it on DVD:

 

http://www.taichihealthways.com/tai-chi-dvd.htm

 

it's toward the bottom of the page.

 

 

the video might be a waste of time for beginners, but experienced cultivators can certainly appreciate it.

 

 

also, Sifu Yang, Jwing-Ming's book:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Qigong-Secret-Youth-...9205&sr=1-3

 

 

 

anyways, i have nothing to contribute as to whether it's buddhist or taoist, and i don't even see the relevence of the label. but i guess it could be a fun topic.

[Wun Yuen Gong]

I wanted to know more on the information posted on the foundation forum as they said something like Damo and Boddhidarma where 2 different people at shaolin and that Damo was Lei Shan Dao or something and was a Daoist. Boddhidarma was living at shaolin with the monks and was indian. Damo was daoist hermit!!!

 

Anyway what is the real muscle tendon change movements there seems to be hundreds of variations!

 

 

WYG

[WhiteTiger]

After seven days of the training, all the channels were open in the body, and the Qi circulation was so strong and full that even coming into the training with 15 years of previous experience, I never could have imagined that Qi and Qi flow could feel like that.

 

The transformation of the body, visual phenomenon, Qi sensation, and body sensation were unlike anything previously encountered, read about or heard about from others.

 

This is my understanding. That it does not take super long to open all these things. Lots of schools refer to some sort of basic foundation meditation of emptying the mind and opening the channels takes around 100 days. Which is also not long at all. (Not talking about Kunlun here)

 

 

Hi Dao Zhen,

 

I realize time does not always equate to effort, but can you tell us roughly how much time per day you were practicing Yi Jin Jing. Also are you free to share how many different postures the form you practiced entailed?

 

Many thanks!

 

 

Well I understand you were not talking to me, and I'm not teacher but i still believe your missing one key thing in your question. Effort, in my mind at least, does not equal practice or intensity of training. So in other words you got effort, you got intensity of your training plus your got time of practice.

 

Anyway what is the real muscle tendon change movements there seems to be hundreds of variations!

WYG

 

Once again i hope you don't mind if i take a stab at understanding why there are so many variations even though i don't claim to know the correct one. I think its similar with Tai chi. Just take one form there are so many variations of combat techniques you could do with each move, some people are even taught this extremely intensive training. where they teach every single variation. I will claim that Sifu Jesse Tsao offers many of these things. I'm not sure if he does the intensive training thing but it would be a great place to start. (I'm am not a student of Jesse Tsao, and I think in my personal opinion he would be a great person to start learning from if you consider yourself an intermediate, beginner or have never done any sorts of Taiji or similar arts)

 

In my art there always attacking first with fire. We have Chin'na techniques all pinching fire. We also have lots of moves to strengthen our metal (because fire beats metal. In the overcoming cycle, also known as the destruction cycle.)

 

I agree there are so many variations, there are reasons why there are so many. For different purposes, although some might be improper practices but theres a reason why there improper. So figuring out the reason for one thing is still on the search for knowledge.

Edited July 12, 2008 by WhiteTiger

[qijack]

I just did a pretty thorough search on the foundation forum trying to find any quotes of david's regarding Yi Jin Jing being Taoist.Failed to find any

 

He does say that Xing Shen Zhuang does bring about the same effects as Yi Jin jing after extensive practice.Apparently it takes 3 years for this process to start

 

And Sifu Jiiangs Lineage can be traced back to Damo.Jiiangs sifu being a strickt buddhist and his brother being labled as a Taoist

[Sahaj Nath]

I wanted to know more on the information posted on the foundation forum as they said something like Damo and Boddhidarma where 2 different people at shaolin and that Damo was Lei Shan Dao or something and was a Daoist. Boddhidarma was living at shaolin with the monks and was indian. Damo was daoist hermit!!!

 

Anyway what is the real muscle tendon change movements there seems to be hundreds of variations!

WYG

 

 

one thing i DO know is that "Boddhidarma" is just a title, like "Light of the Path" or "Bringer of the light" or that sort of thing. there were many Boddhidarmas. DaMo is the most famous of them.

[Wun Yuen Gong]

Truth,

 

Cheers, it was on the old forum that u didnt have to pay for! Its was a prettuy cool story, and i was thinking about it so i thought i would ask. I have Dr Yangs book on muscle tendon change classic but dont know how pricise it is?! But its the 1st time i heard that Damo may have been Taoist and there was a different person named Boddhidarma at shaolin. Damo lived in the cave in the mountains!

 

Who would have the closest version of the original Muscle tendon change?

 

Maybe xing sheng zhuang is a muscle tendon exercise?

 

WYG

[YMWong]

Anyway what is the real muscle tendon change movements there seems to be hundreds of variations!

WYG

 

This is a well-performed one

 

 

YM

[dao zhen]

Wow, that's pretty amazing.

 

So, are such results typical? Or was it possibly just the last straw on the camel's back that unleashed what you had already been building up through all those other years of practice?

 

Is this technique described on your site? I know it can't be transmitted effectively over text, but I'm just kinda curious about a glossover of the basic method.

 

Hi Dao Zhen,

 

I realize time does not always equate to effort, but can you tell us roughly how much time per day you were practicing Yi Jin Jing. Also are you free to share how many different postures the form you practiced entailed?

 

Many thanks!

 

By my observation of my personal experience and of other students who have undergone the intensive training, these are very typical results.

 

In fact, students with no previous experience have such experiences and more faster than what I experienced.

 

This may be due to the fact that they have no preconceived ideas, and no bad habit in regards to improper practice.

 

The system has a very exact time frame for when certain internal changes will take place; by my observation it is pretty exact, give or take a day or two.

 

During such training, there are three sitting sessions per day. Each session lasts 1.5 - 2 hours.

 

It is advised for the student to practice a fourth session in their room before sleep during the practice.

 

So far, what I have seen in print and on video that is termed the "Tendon or Muscle Changing" and "Marrow Washing" is not really similar to what we were taught.

 

In each sitting session, a different hand set is taught, with static hand postures, taoist mudra, and also instructions on where to place the Mind-Will, and how to use the Mind-Will.

 

It seems each set is working on opening a different meridian pair, and when it is all put together in the daily sessions, it brings about very quick internal growth and change.

 

Later the Jing is brought into play, and transformed into Qi.

 

I personally also think there is a lot of transmission going on, but the instructor never mentions such things, nor makes any claims.

 

For me, the most suprising thing I have observed in other students and myself is the general common experience of the students "entering" the "inner realm" by about day 10 - 12, and viewing such things as the Mysterious Pass, and other sites that lie in the Realm of Non-Existense.

 

Also many people have come and gained cures form such things as AIDS, Stage 4 Cancer, Tumors, and other such chronic disease after taking part in the 14 - 20 day intensive training course.

 

In short, I think if you are really learning an authentic lineage Taoist art, the transformations and openings should begin from day 1 - generally -

 

It should not take a student 6 months - 3 years before they begin to feel something.......

 

Feelings and experiences should be obvious and clear.

 

It is very real, concrete, and obvious.

 

The whole practice stems on the first steps of gaining internal quiet and stillness.

 

It is nothing to do with visualization or imagination methods.

[shontonga]

This is a well-performed one

 

 

YM

 

very cool link YM, thanks for putting it up!

Hadn't seen them linked like that, that's grate.

Very clear.(to my limited understanding!)

One part where he has a great stretch going on through san jiao

Like that!

(Of course other meridians also but that stood out for me)

Very cool.

 

Stay well!

 

Shon

[gendao]

During such training, there are three sitting sessions per day. Each session lasts 1.5 - 2 hours.

 

It is advised for the student to practice a fourth session in their room before sleep during the practice.

 

So far, what I have seen in print and on video that is termed the "Tendon or Muscle Changing" and "Marrow Washing" is not really similar to what we were taught.

 

In each sitting session, a different hand set is taught, with static hand postures, taoist mudra, and also instructions on where to place the Mind-Will, and how to use the Mind-Will.

 

It seems each set is working on opening a different meridian pair, and when it is all put together in the daily sessions, it brings about very quick internal growth and change.

 

Later the Jing is brought into play, and transformed into Qi.

 

I personally also think there is a lot of transmission going on, but the instructor never mentions such things, nor makes any claims.

 

For me, the most suprising thing I have observed in other students and myself is the general common experience of the students "entering" the "inner realm" by about day 10 - 12, and viewing such things as the Mysterious Pass, and other sites that lie in the Realm of Non-Existense.

 

Also many people have come and gained cures form such things as AIDS, Stage 4 Cancer, Tumors, and other such chronic disease after taking part in the 14 - 20 day intensive training course.

 

In short, I think if you are really learning an authentic lineage Taoist art, the transformations and openings should begin from day 1 - generally -

 

It should not take a student 6 months - 3 years before they begin to feel something.......

Holy crap!

 

And yes, I am starting to think also that the more real something is, the faster it takes effect. If something takes decades, it's probably very watered-down or just tangential shadows cast by the true hidden light. Eff that shyt!

[qijack]

How is pietro going with this training? if he is still doing it

 

I would imagining he would be having some pretty amazing results about now

[SFJane]

When I was in my very early 20s I was sitting in my living room with Yang Jwing Ming's books on chi gung, tendon changing and marrow washing.

 

I was trying to figure out all how the heck I was supposed to get a young boy and young girl to come give me abdominal massages with jade or metal spheres at the right times of day in order to follow all the training secrets and the 100 day cultivation and the dos and do nots of cultivating.

 

I really wanted to develop the golden bell cover, turn back my inner clock and live to be 400 so I took that stuff seriously.

 

I had an opportunity to ask Bruce Frantzis about it at a retreat. I asked him what the relationship was between tendon changing and bone marrow washing and chi/nei gung

 

He said this.

 

"Chi gung is Yi jin jing" and he ambled off.

 

I instantly understood that it was not necessary to formulate herbal pills and to have yin and yang massages at certain times during the day to gain iron shirt benefits or change my body's tissues.

 

I forget all about Jimmy Yang's book on the subject and instead I learned the bone breathing/body breathing methods, I learned reverse breathing and the yi chi dzuo method of moving my chi. I learned various chi/nei gung routines.

 

I gained a certain amount of all those benefits listed in the Shi soei ching and Yi jin ching

 

you see when you do tai chi or hsin i or ba gua, you are doing chi gung and nei gung

 

so when you are doing tai chi or walking the circle, if you are not just on autopilot but consciously engaged in processes underneath the skin then your tai chi and ba gua is bone marrow washing and tendon changing.

 

my muscles went from hard to soft

my body went from tensed to relaxed

I reclaimed energy that was bound up in my stressed out tensed up karate body at the time.

I found myself rarely if at all sick not even with the common cold

 

I was not stuffing a cubicle for a living but working in warehousing and factories. I had ample opportunities to test my developing iron shirt and ascertain if I was truly tougher and stronger from my practice without actually appearing to be stronger and tougher

 

I might bang my hand on something and find a mere red spot when I was sure it was a cut. Cuts I did get healed very fast.

 

Even in sparring I was able to take more damage before crying uncle. I did not suffer as much from the punishment the next day.

 

Chi gung is yi jin jing, my chi gung practice, my tai chi and ba gua did turn back my clock, I did get stronger, healthier, more energetic and more ailment resistant as well as blow and impact resistant.

 

All those chi gung vids purporting to show The Yi Jin Ching Chi Gung Set maybe legit may not be legit.

 

But you can't just wave your arms in a certain manner and expect your tendons to change.

 

What makes any chi gung exercise 'yi jin ching' is certain attributes and processes done inside your body while performing any given chi gung movement.

 

If those processes are lacking you can learn The One True Supreme Lineage Yi Jin Ching Chi Gung set and your body. health and tendons won't change very much, if at all.

 

Edit. yea I've seen some of these videos as well as some exercises in books. It is all well and good to try to imitate a move seen in a video or reconstruct if from the pages of a book but without the *internals* you are doing an *external* move that might as well be meaningless.

 

The fact is even performing a movement and calling it *yi jin ching* is problematic. The only way to really be sure they were doing the Yi Jin part or the Shi soei part would to stand very close to them, touch their body and observe exceedlingly small micromovements which might betray certain principles being actualized such as whole body opening and closings for example.

 

If your tai chi or ba gua is high quality then you are doing the yi jin and the shi soei the moment you begin commencement.

Edited July 13, 2008 by SFJane

[AugustLeo]

.

[林愛偉]

I wanted to know more on the information posted on the foundation forum as they said something like Damo and Boddhidarma where 2 different people at shaolin and that Damo was Lei Shan Dao or something and was a Daoist. Boddhidarma was living at shaolin with the monks and was indian. Damo was daoist hermit!!!

 

Anyway what is the real muscle tendon change movements there seems to be hundreds of variations!

WYG

 

 

There is one for virgins, which is one of the strongest methods in both Daoist and Buddhist schools. There is one for non-virgins, which takes longer to clean the bone marrow due to having had sex already. The methods vary, like forms and such, but they all do the same thing eventually. Some forms work certain things at certain times, others work everything all at once... hehe those are harder and more fun.

 

It takes diligent practice, daily practice, drinking loads of water, and eating properly...as well as not ejaculating for actual real benefit. Ejaculate, and you waste your cultivation...especially when it comes to Yi Jin Jing.

 

Peace,

Lin

Edited July 14, 2008 by 林愛偉

[Lighttime]

one thing i DO know is that "Boddhidarma" is just a title, like "Light of the Path" or "Bringer of the light" or that sort of thing. there were many Boddhidarmas. DaMo is the most famous of them.

Bodhidharma as if spoken from someone in China "Pu Tee Da Mo"

 

Thats where the "Damo" comes from.

[Wun Yuen Gong]

Lighttime,

 

Thanks i know all about the story of Damo my system of kung fu is Shaolin, its just that i read a different story on the foundation forum that made me think recently.

 

Thanks for your time to post anyway!

 

WYG

[sheng zhen]

The fact is even performing a movement and calling it *yi jin ching* is problematic. The only way to really be sure they were doing the Yi Jin part or the Shi soei part would to stand very close to them, touch their body and observe exceedlingly small micromovements which might betray certain principles being actualized such as whole body opening and closings for example.

 

If your tai chi or ba gua is high quality then you are doing the yi jin and the shi soei the moment you begin commencement.

This is really an interesting observation SFJane!

 

Can you say a little more about that? How does the small micromovements look like? How do we see if the whole body is opening?

 

Are these micromovements seen in the joints or other parts of the body?