Great power and strength with out weights

[Nilo]

DarinHamel,

 

I am new to this forum but I have to say that you sound like a fish out of water when it comes to awareness. you argue your point by bullying it down people's throats.

 

BTW Mike Tyson does not bench , MMA fighters generally do not bench, some might bench because they like bodybuilding. Cut the fluff.

[Smile]

Yeah, the longer you stay flexed and hold it, the better chance you get to develop internal force. Try putting hands in the prayer position pressing against each other and flexing the rest of your body and holding it for 30 minutes. If you can do it, you will probably be able to make holes in the heavy boxing bag.

 

Unfortunately, non of the today's MMA do this type of training, hence you see them punching each other for 3 rounds and nothing happens.

[Nilo]

I am a "real Internal Martial artist".....

 

 

and I'm the King of England.

[mantis]

How can you tell me i'll never get a body like a gymnast? - Thats just such a ludicrous statement to make online, talking to someone you know nothing about at all.

 

I already have a body like a gymnast and work on it every day: Picture 1 Picture 2

I meditate for 2 to 3 hours and do work in the Dojo for 2 to 4 hours, when i don't have time.

When i do have time, i work in the Dojo for 3 - 6 hours.

 

The wall for me is at 2 hours, if i don't push myself then, my body gives up, but if i hurdle over i flip a switch and can go for 4 to 6 hours.

 

Don't be so presumptuous.

 

Once again, you're totally beside the point here. The name of the thread is great power and strength without weights.

 

Is lifting weights the "fastest" way (it doesn't even deserve the word "effective") to get as you put it "lean/big". Yes.

 

Is it the most effective and only way to do it? - Definitely not.

 

The benefits and results of using bodyweight to develop strength and get lean far outweigh any provided by weight lifting. You just don't get the same formation and quality of muscle tissue. Ask a weight lifter to do 1 planche pushup and he will fall flat on his face. It's not the size of the muscle, it's the way it's formed.

 

Like Vajrasattva said, you have to simulate the movement you are going to implement as you train the muscle, or you end up being a big pile of useless bulky meat. The best way to form the muscle is progressively. Lifting weights, is not only rigid, but fails to form the muscle carefully, which is one of the reasons it is inferior to bodyweight strength training.

 

PS: Your attitude sucks. Maybe it's you who will never achieve their goals and should keep dreaming. But don't try and drag others down with your faults, instead encourage them and show some positivity : )

 

OK. You have to work out 3-6 hours to get a body that to be frank - isn't impressive. I go to the gym for about 3 hours a week, eat extremely unhealthy foods, and yet I am just as lean. Which method is more effective? No shit a weightlifter isn't going to be able to do a planche push up because he doesn't train to do them... Can a gymnast clean and jerk hundreds of pounds? No.

 

I never said you couldn't get strong without lifting weights, look through this thread (which is over a year old) and you'll find that. I simply don't buy what the isometric fan boys are selling.

 

If I come off as a dick I apologize that wasn't my intent, I am just honest.

 

Oh, and look what I found

 

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/olympics/2007...ent_6304908.htm

 

China's top gymnast and oh my god!!!!!!!!! What is he doing? Lifting weights, and a shitty movement at that.

Edited November 12, 2009 by mantis

[lino]

OK. You have to work out 3-6 hours to get a body that to be frank - isn't impressive. I go to the gym for about 3 hours a week, eat extremely unhealthy foods, and yet I am just as lean. Which method is more effective? No shit a weightlifter isn't going to be able to do a planche push up because he doesn't train to do them... Can a gymnast clean and jerk hundreds of pounds? No.

 

I never said you couldn't get strong without lifting weights, look through this thread (which is over a year old) and you'll find that. I simply don't buy what the isometric fan boys are selling.

 

If I come off as a dick I apologize that wasn't my intent, I am just honest.

 

Oh, and look what I found

 

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/olympics/2007...ent_6304908.htm

 

China's top gymnast and oh my god!!!!!!!!! What is he doing? Lifting weights, and a shitty movement at that.

 

Okay

 

You want to try isometrics then do this...works on the same principle.

 

Pick a weight on the bench press. Go to the power rack instead of a bench press. Set the bars so that it limits your range of motion to the bottom 4-6 inches. Press the weight against the bar at the top of range of motion for 3-5 seconds.

[Gerard]

Competitive athletes take performance enhacing drugs. This is a reality. Elite gymnasts are amongst the worst offenders.

[effilang]

OK. You have to work out 3-6 hours to get a body that to be frank - isn't impressive. I go to the gym for about 3 hours a week, eat extremely unhealthy foods, and yet I am just as lean. Which method is more effective? No shit a weightlifter isn't going to be able to do a planche push up because he doesn't train to do them... Can a gymnast clean and jerk hundreds of pounds? No.

 

I never said you couldn't get strong without lifting weights, look through this thread (which is over a year old) and you'll find that. I simply don't buy what the isometric fan boys are selling.

 

If I come off as a dick I apologize that wasn't my intent, I am just honest.

 

Oh, and look what I found

 

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/olympics/2007...ent_6304908.htm

 

China's top gymnast and oh my god!!!!!!!!! What is he doing? Lifting weights, and a shitty movement at that.

 

lol - Incredible you're still besides the point. Like i said, lifting weights is the "fastest" way to get lean, but not the most efficient. Even if you can clean jerk hundreds of pounds, the quality, efficiency, recovery, formation, durability, strength, flexibility etc. of your muscle is inferior.

 

I don't lift weights, but when i accompany friends to the weight lifting section who have been training for years, i can lift more dead weight than they can, without prior weight training. The only reason i work out for that long is because i love it. How long i work out for has nothing to do with my results. I only mentioned it to prove "Regular" people can do it, since you insisted one would be required to "dream" in order to achieve such results.

 

40 Minutes a day doing bodyweight training will yield the same results. Also i pretty much only eat fruits, rice, fish and water. It's cheaper, healthier and the quality of the muscle is superior.

 

"No shit a weightlifter isn't going to be able to do a planche push up because he doesn't train to do them.."

 

My point exactly. Weight lifter's muscle formation is rigid and less efficient, due to the nature of their work out. The muscle is like a horse with blinders.

 

A bodyweight trainer on the other hand can utilize the same muscle for task of much greater variety than the weight builder can and with greater efficiency, without requiring specific prior training. Bodyweight training as far as quality, muscle formation, costs and requirements go - is way, way more effective.

 

I and someone else already said in prior post that some gymnasts weight lift, but it is not necessary to achieve those results. Making a post with a link about a weight lifter who weight lifts, after that, is somewhat.... i'll pass on commenting.

 

The difference between you and me in this conversation, is that you are biased, while i am not.

If you weight lift, as long as you do bodyweight training, and specific motor programing through movement simulation - You will have the best of both worlds. It's like having a huge block that has to fit through a circular doorway, it won't work. But if you take the block and chisel it, you get the best of both worlds.

 

The circular doorway represents the variety of tasks we use our muscles for in the real world. If you only have a block, then you're just a big bag of inefficiently produced meat. But if you've molded and programmed the muscle with bodyweight and movement simulation, then you've built the best muscle you can. It's like giving that block a brain, instead of just leaving it to be dead weight with minimal productivity.

 

Body builder's muscle formations are rigid. Thats just the way it is : )

You can't only do 1 thing. You're in a Tao forum for crying out loud.

 

I would assume, telling people that results are only achievable through dreams and being totally biased in your opinion, would be beyond you.

 

You have to go hard and soft - for the best results. Soft... just like with the internal arts, is stronger, but takes longer to cultivate depending on your efforts. You may be bigger than me, but don't think you have the advantage with only dead "bulky" muscle.

 

The weight lifters muscle is like ordering a pizza from a menu that doesn't tell you what the ingredients are, for 10 people, all with different tastes. You get a pizza, thats it, and you will not satisfy all requirements.

Bodyweight training and muscle programming on the other hand, is asking everyone what ingredient they want on the pizza. Then making the pizza at home while catering to all of those 10 people's requirements.

 

Great power and strength without weights as the title of this thread goes, is best achieved through bodyweight training in combination with some weight lifting, or BODYWEIGHT training only, but definitely not weight lifting only. That's not strength, trust me. : ) - Thats just... lumpyness *giggle

Edited November 13, 2009 by effilang

[sabretooth]

One of the thing's i've noticed from all the year's of chi kung practice is a strengthening of the entire body,even my teeth have become stronger.

From my understanding chi kung,done correctly,compacts energy ( chi ) into the entire body,from the bone marrow out.

It is not just a stronger body that is achieved but all the senses become sharper as well.

By placeing chi in the dan tian ( manipura chakra ) and remaining celebate I have noticed I have more energy and so don't get as tired or as hungry as I used to .

Now we have all heard stories about people producing superhuman strength in times of emergency which I believe is achieved through tapping into your chi this is also something that can be learned,would anybody here know how to do this ?.

 

 

 

sabretooth.

[effilang]

One of the thing's i've noticed from all the year's of chi kung practice is a strengthening of the entire body,even my teeth have become stronger.

From my understanding chi kung,done correctly,compacts energy ( chi ) into the entire body,from the bone marrow out.

It is not just a stronger body that is achieved but all the senses become sharper as well.

By placeing chi in the dan tian ( manipura chakra ) and remaining celebate I have noticed I have more energy and so don't get as tired or as hungry as I used to .

Now we have all heard stories about people producing superhuman strength in times of emergency which I believe is achieved through tapping into your chi this is also something that can be learned,would anybody here know how to do this ?.

sabretooth.

 

I'd love to hear more on that!

[mantis]

lol you tell me that I am bias yet here you are saying your muscle is "superior." Muscle is muscle and it grows when it is broken down just the same. What makes you think just because you follow that diet it's best? You don't know it's best, you just think it is because it's what you follow, which is called bias.

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Now we have all heard stories about people producing superhuman strength in times of emergency which I believe is achieved through tapping into your chi this is also something that can be learned,would anybody here know how to do this ?.

sabretooth.

Here's how.

 

Obtain a Schumann Resonance generating device that generates an electronic signal at 7.83 Hz, the frequency of the Earth's magnetic field.

 

 

Wait until there is a powerful lightning storm, then go with a friend outside in your backyard, out in the open. Stand in the basic Zhan Zhuang posture, facing south, begin to align the breath exactly with the 7.83 cycle of the Schumann device. Begin Microcosmic Orbit inthe usual direction, Macrocosmic Orbit in the reverse direction. The begin to visualize the electric power of each lightning strike as being directly connected to you lower cauldron, the dan tien. It begins to heat up powerfully.

 

Continue to reinforce the visualization, the breathing, and the circulations while the lightning and thunder crashes all around you, and you stay rooted firmly in the Tao.

 

Begin to notice how all your meridians are now beginning to tingle and wait until you can feel each of them lighting up clearly and distinctly.

 

Have your friend come out from his cover, and using a large lever as a wedge, he topples over an old refrigerator directly onto your toes, trapping them.

 

Now, focus all your chi, and easily lift the refrigerator from your bloody, pulpy feet and effortlessly toss it to the side.

 

Stay tuned for lesson two.

Edited November 13, 2009 by TheSongsofDistantEarth

[effilang]

lol you tell me that I am bias yet here you are saying your muscle is "superior." Muscle is muscle and it grows when it is broken down just the same. What makes you think just because you follow that diet it's best? You don't know it's best, you just think it is because it's what you follow, which is called bias.

 

"Muscle is muscle and it grows when it is broken down just the same." << That statement explains why you don't get it. Until now i thought you were just being stubborn. But it makes sense now.

 

As well. I never said my results are due to eating fruits, rice and fish. You sound desperate, fabricating statements now.

 

[mantis]

lol straw man much? I know the value of gymnastic training and body weight training, I do plenty of weighted pull ups and dips, but I'm not some fan boy that thinks nothing else works (as you are).

[Smile]

Weight lifter's muscle formation is rigid and less efficient, due to the nature of their work out. The muscle is like a horse with blinders.

 

A bodyweight trainer on the other hand can utilize the same muscle for task of much greater variety than the weight builder can and with greater efficiency, without requiring specific prior training. Bodyweight training as far as quality, muscle formation, costs and requirements go - is way, way more effective...............

 

The weight lifters muscle is like ordering a pizza from a menu that doesn't tell you what the ingredients are, for 10 people, all with different tastes. You get a pizza, thats it, and you will not satisfy all requirements.

Bodyweight training and muscle programming on the other hand, is asking everyone what ingredient they want on the pizza. Then making the pizza at home while catering to all of those 10 people's requirements.

 

Great power and strength without weights as the title of this thread goes, is best achieved through bodyweight training in combination with some weight lifting, or BODYWEIGHT training only, but definitely not weight lifting only. That's not strength, trust me. : ) - Thats just... lumpyness *giggle

You know there are a few ways to do weight training that can combine the principles of Transformetrics but using weights. Modern weight training evolved beyound the old conventional wisdom, and you can see people doing interesting things involving weights... like weight training without weight movement etc.... But like you said a combination of both weight training and Transformetrics plus stretching the muscles is a good way to go. The best results I noticed from my own training is when I vary my training from weights, to bane marrow neigong (that has Transformetrics principles), to stretching, to running. And one doesn't have to spend a lot of time on each... even 10 minutes is enough.

Good thread.

[effilang]

Thanx for that TheSongsofDistantEarth - I do have one question though.

Does the refrigerator have to be full or empty?

 

PS: Exactly Smile.

Just like i said a combination of Bodyweight and some Weight Training is best.

 

Weight training on its own however does not produce the same quality muscle as Bodyweight when it is the sole method of muscle production.

 

The typical machine drills on a weight machine create very rigid muscle. It might look big and u will get it faster, but the quality, usability, endurance, flexibility, programming, recovery, and the variety of applications it can be used for is reduced when compared to Bodyweight.

 

This is not so say that using weight that you can hold in your hand and do not weight so much that they restrict movement are BAD. No, that relies on the same principles of bodyweight training and isometrics.

 

If Mr. Mantis, took the time to actually read what i was writing, he wouldn't be making such ridiculous replies all the time.

Edited November 13, 2009 by effilang

[effilang]

lol straw man much? I know the value of gymnastic training and body weight training, I do plenty of weighted pull ups and dips, but I'm not some fan boy that thinks nothing else works (as you are).

 

You completely fabricate a statement claiming i've said that my results are due to eating certain food.

I reply to all your statements one by one. Then you say i'm diverting from topic.

 

Funny.

 

And now you're name calling. Should have figured i was dealing with a kid.

 

Muscle is not the same, maybe you'll learn that one day after you take the blinders off.

Then you'll figure out what is being said.

Edited November 13, 2009 by effilang

[mantis]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strawman

[effilang]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strawman

 

You look, but you don't read.

 

Your bloated self esteem is as broken as your forum avatar's hyperlink.

Edited November 13, 2009 by effilang

[Blume]

Many Blessings to all the posters of this thread...

[gendao]

1) Weight training primarily trains only muscles. That's why a lot of these huge bodybuilders might be able to lift a lot, but could still have bad posture or not be able to hold a straight handstand. Their may also look very physically fit, yet actually not be very healthy.

 

2) Bodyweight training trains both muscles and skeletal alignment (body mechanics). A prime example of this is a gymnast, or Vinyasa yogi. These guys are generally both extremely physically fit with fully-developed musculature and great body mechanics.

 

3) "Gym" yoga primarily trains your skeletal alignment (body mechanics). A lot of great "physical" yogis have great alignment, but may not be extremely physically fit or muscular. He may also have better-than average, but not necessarily great qi condition.

 

4) Qigong primarily trains your qi. Qigong masters will generally have great qi condition. This will often include great health, slowed aging, longevity and some siddhic powers. They will probably also have decent skeletal alignment, but may not be muscular (or even physically fit) at all.

 

 

Personally, I focus primarily on 4 right now...and just barely dabble in 2 & 3. 1 is basically useless to me for my purposes right now.

[MBZ]

Many Blessings to all the posters of this thread...

That's nice Blume, LOVE AND BLESSINGS TO YOU TOO!

[JustARandomPanda]

Holy cow.

 

Have any of you tried using one of these? I have one but never tried using it until today. Decided to get it out from gathering dust and it kicked my ass after only 5 minutes!!

 

I never would've believed something so simple could be so unholy hard!!!

 

 

 

 

*flops from sheer exhaustion*

 

 

Edit: Pardon...the one I have is this one - with the foot straps so you can do various exercises with it with your hands or your feet. It came with a DVD of a full body workout with just the wheel. The trainer says he used it with a football team. Made them strap their feet in then literally do plyometric pushups from one side of the football field to the other and back. Yikes!!

Edited November 15, 2009 by SereneBlue

[JustARandomPanda]

Here's a

of a guy using it.

 

This guy makes it look easy as butter. It's NOT! It hits EVERY - and I do mean - EVERY - major muscle and tiny stabilizer in your core HARD. I've never felt the like - not even on a stability ball.

 

 

Edit:

even better than the first imo. Edited November 15, 2009 by SereneBlue

[Dreamingawake]

Holy cow.

 

Have any of you tried using one of these? I have one but never tried using it until today. Decided to get it out from gathering dust and it kicked my ass after only 5 minutes!!

 

I never would've believed something so simple could be so unholy hard!!!

*flops from sheer exhaustion*

Edit: Pardon...the one I have is this one - with the foot straps so you can do various exercises with it with your hands or your feet. It came with a DVD of a full body workout with just the wheel. The trainer says he used it with a football team. Made them strap their feet in then literally do plyometric pushups from one side of the football field to the other and back. Yikes!!

 

I have a version of that first one you posted and I don't use it nearly as much as I should. Those things are pretty good when your on your knees but I've seen people that could do it hands and feet. I tried it and it sucks... a lot

[Smile]

 

I have a version of that first one you posted and I don't use it nearly as much as I should. Those things are pretty good when your on your knees but I've seen people that could do it hands and feet. I tried it and it sucks... a lot

Yes, I have the same basic roller and used to do it like in your video standing up but it caused too much stress on the lower back and shoulders so I switched back to the basic knees position. The second video SereneB. posted is with the inventor of stretch bands and a whole bunch of other cool things. You can see him on some of the pics from Lifeline USA site.

 

Here are a few other cool things you can try:

 

Akrowheels

 

Here is someone using them to train one arm push-ups:

 

L5KJ_Ohrj6U

 

Indoboard

 

Advanced Indoboard...

 

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