Kunlun and Kundalini

[johan]

Another Kunlun post... well they are quiet few nowadays anyway...

 

It is said that Kunlun and Kundalini practices do not mix together. Why is that? Now I know the answer from Max but I can not fully accept that answer. To me Kunlun and Kundalini (I practice both) does not seem that different from each other. Kunlun seems to be a more spontaneous practice that flows up and down in the nervous system. Where Kundalini is more of a upward flowing fire which you consciously have to balance with some form of downward flowing grounding energy (unless you want a bumpy ride). But to me they seem to be doing similar things. And as far as I can see almost all spiritual practices at some point deal with Kundalini, whether it carries that name or not. Also I have heard that Max said that it is ok to do mantra meditation. Now mantra meditation done correctly will also awaken Kundalini, so thats a mix right there.

Moreover Kundalini is awake in all of us, otherwise we would be dead. It is just a question if it is a small trickle or a fire hose in full blast.

Maybe it is more of a question of not putting to much energy in your system all at once. Overdoing is always a concern and the more powerful the practice is, the easier it is to hit that point. And Kunlun is a very powerful practice, no doubt. And so is Kundalini, with the right techniques.

 

My problem is that I love both and I cant seem to give up any. Hopefully with enough grounding I can keep my practice safe and stay away from to much overdoing.

 

I would love to hear other practitioners view on this, especially those who are or have been practicing both.

 

Vortex, are you still practicing Kunlun, and if so how does that tie together with your KAP practice?

Scott, I know you used to practice AYP, how did that go with Kunlun?

Yoda, what about you, any Jedi insights on this one?

Tibetan Ice, you have done both Kunlun and AYP, how was the mix?

 

Any one who has any insight in this matter please ship in...

 

 

Love

Per

[Yoda]

Per,

 

I think the main thing is that, per Max, Kunlun is a downward flow and Kundalini is an upward flow and they can crash into each other.

 

When I asked Max about Sanskrit mantras, I wasn't asking re: kundalini activating mantras and he said that practicing them during different times of the day should be fine but he implied that it's best to work within the context of just one system at a time.

 

Vajrasattva has said that it's not wrong to mix upwards and downwards systems and has seemed to downplay Max's warning about this sort of thing. But there is mention of bad experiences on the Kunlun thread on the ayp forum under "other systems of practice" re: mixing the two.

 

Then again, the sexual practice discussion in the Kunlun book seems just like tantra 101: just slurp it up. I've given away my last copy of the book, so double check me on that. I don't remember if he said take it up the middle, the front, or the back. Anyone?

 

There's got to be a safe way in all of this. I know that advanced K practitioners say that an upward flow just kicks in naturally too. Maybe best wait for that to kick in at the right time if you opt for the Kunlun path?

 

Your pal,

Yoda

[Aetherous]

I really don't know what's going on anymore. Sorry.

[johan]

Per,

 

"I think the main thing is that, per Max, Kunlun is a downward flow and Kundalini is an upward flow and they can crash into each other."

 

This I don't get, because for me Kunlun is very much a upward flow just as much as a downward flow. It usually goes up the back and down the front and the back feels very much like my spinal breathing but with a bit more bliss to it.

 

 

"When I asked Max about Sanskrit mantras, I wasn't asking re: kundalini activating mantras and he said that practicing them during different times of the day should be fine but he implied that it's best to work within the context of just one system at a time. "

 

The " I AM" of ayp is Kundalini activating, flows both up and down.

 

 

"Then again, the sexual practice discussion in the Kunlun book seems just like tantra 101: just slurp it up. I've given away my last copy of the book, so double check me on that. I don't remember if he said take it up the middle, the front, or the back. Anyone?"

 

Absolutely! It is basically the "Big Draw" pulling the sexual energy up the spine, now that is full on Kundalini Tantra. And with sexual energy in the mix the Kundalini will be even stronger.

 

 

"There's got to be a safe way in all of this. I know that advanced K practitioners say that an upward flow just kicks in naturally too. Maybe best wait for that to kick in at the right time if you opt for the Kunlun path?"

 

It seems like it has already kicked in for me, maybe because I have been practicing Kundalini for a few years already. But Kunlun seem to balance the whole thing and make my energy flow round and round in the mco. It is too interesting of a practice to stay away from, but then again so is Kundalini

 

I guess I just have to ground properly, go with the flow, and hope for the best...

 

Thanks Yoda

 

 

Love

Per

[emily]

hey all

 

although i don't want to rush in and say what anything IS (high five robert anton wilson fans hehe) i think everything's working with the same source materials, the energy just a different configuration of the energy.

 

like say for example you wanted to communicate a 2 paragraph document in 2 different languages, english and german. you don't do the first paragraph in german and the second in english. no you, translate into english, finished product and then into german, finished product (or vice versa )

 

so it's like talking in a different wnergy language. you learn two at the same time and no one knows what the fuck your talking about anymore! hahaha

 

that's just my view though cos i'd find the feeling of my kundalini experiences right now a bit too much.

 

but if it works for you cool!!

 

emily

[Yoda]

It seems like it has already kicked in for me, maybe because I have been practicing Kundalini for a few years already. But Kunlun seem to balance the whole thing and make my energy flow round and round in the mco. It is too interesting of a practice to stay away from, but then again so is Kundalini

 

 

Does your kunlun mco have a preferred direction?

 

Your pal,

Yoda

[de_paradise]

Edited July 20, 2008 by de_paradise

[SiliconValley]

I think the main thing is that, per Max, Kunlun is a downward flow and Kundalini is an upward flow and they can crash into each other.

 

Vajrasattva has said that it's not wrong to mix upwards and downwards systems and has seemed to downplay Max's warning about this sort of thing.

 

But Kundalini is not always upward flow, is it? Urdhwa Kundalini moves up, Adhah Kundalini moves downwards, and Maha Kundalini is spontaneous, not directional. She is like a lightening and spontaneous combustion, everything going ablaze at once, in all directions, inwards and outwards. The concept of Kundalini seems to be approached mainly from Hatha Yoga point of view, which is really basic. There is really a lot more to that sweet lady!

 

When I asked Max about Sanskrit mantras, I wasn't asking re: kundalini activating mantras and he said that practicing them during different times of the day should be fine but he implied that it's best to work within the context of just one system at a time.

 

Every Sanskrit Mantra arises out of one of the 51 letters of the Sanskrit alphabet, called Matrika [the Supreme mother]. And Kundalini is called Matrika Sharirini - the one who is of the form of these letters. These 51 letters represent her and all mantras arising out of them essentially are directed towards Kundalini in one way or the other. Isolation of a mantra from Kundalini is not possible.

Edited July 20, 2008 by SiliconValley

[johan]

Does your kunlun mco have a preferred direction?

 

Your pal,

Yoda

 

 

Yes, it normally flows up the back and down the front

 

 

Every Sanskrit Mantra arises out of one of the 51 letters of the Sanskrit alphabet, called Matrika [the Supreme mother]. And Kundalini is called Matrika Sharirini - the one who is of the form of these letters. These 51 letters represent her and all mantras arising out of them essentially are directed towards Kundalini in one way or the other. Isolation of a mantra from Kundalini is not possible.

 

Exactly my point, mantra meditation will awaken shakti sooner or later.

 

Moreover I add kecheri (stage 2, ayp) to my Kunlun practice and that adds more ecstasy to the whole practice. And Kechari stimulates Kundalini like anything. When I got my kunlun transmission from Oscar Hsu I asked about this and he said thats fine and that Kunlun practice eventually makes you do kechari anyway.

 

 

[Patrick Brown]

Edited July 21, 2008 by Patrick Brown

[Patrick Brown]

Found this and I just had to share it as it made my aura thrilled with delight! Hey it's so refreshing when you realise other people are doing good work.

 

 

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Edited July 21, 2008 by Patrick Brown

[Yoda]

Per,

 

You got your transmission from Lama Oscar? Cool! I had wondered about kechari and kunlun, thanks for that! It sounds like he teaches regularly in NYC yes?

 

It would be interesting to hear what Lama Oscar would have to say about the Kunlun vs Kundalini thing. He might be able to provide a fresh new angle. I very much enjoyed hearing him talk about Kunlun in NJ... he definitely brought a Tibetan flavoring to it which I enjoyed as I used to study Tibetan Buddhism.

 

Did he teach any straight up Tibetan practices during your workshop?

 

Yours,

Yoda

[johan]

 

So playing with the Kundalini can trigger the process of 'straightening by fire' and if an individual isn't strong enough spiritually it can, a least, cause physical and mental damage and, at worst, kill them. Death perhaps has something to do with the ego holding onto its false perceptions thereby fuelling fear which perpetuates and drives the Kundalini up the body. Without the balancing downward energy the kundalini can become an out of control raging fire which becomes so unbearable that the conciousness of the individual is forced out of the body i.e. Death.

 

That is why it is very important in any Kundalini practice to have a balanced approach of both upward flowing energy (sky) and a downward flowing grounding energy (earth). AYP has solved this nicely with spinal breathing. Very important to stay grounded!

 

 

Per,

 

You got your transmission from Lama Oscar? Cool! I had wondered about kechari and kunlun, thanks for that! It sounds like he teaches regularly in NYC yes?

 

It would be interesting to hear what Lama Oscar would have to say about the Kunlun vs Kundalini thing. He might be able to provide a fresh new angle. I very much enjoyed hearing him talk about Kunlun in NJ... he definitely brought a Tibetan flavoring to it which I enjoyed as I used to study Tibetan Buddhism.

 

Did he teach any straight up Tibetan practices during your workshop?

 

Yours,

Yoda

 

 

I could only attend one evening of the weekend with Lama Oscar so I did not get to ask all my questions. Anyway it was great and I really enjoyed spending time with him and the other people that was there. Also great to be able to practice Kunlun in a group without no one thinking you lost it . Really hope there will be another chance to meet Oscar before I leave for India...

 

 

Peace

Per

[Yoda]

Let me know if there's an online or email way to keep track of his workshops. I really enjoyed being around him. It's my inkling that Lama Oscar is a key player who will keep these teachings available both inside and outside the Tibetan tradition.

[Tibetan_Ice]

I would love to hear other practitioners view on this, especially those who are or have been practicing both.

 

Vortex, are you still practicing Kunlun, and if so how does that tie together with your KAP practice?

Scott, I know you used to practice AYP, how did that go with Kunlun?

Yoda, what about you, any Jedi insights on this one?

Tibetan Ice, you have done both Kunlun and AYP, how was the mix?

 

Any one who has any insight in this matter please ship in...

Love

Per

 

Hi johan

Yes, I practice both. My kundalini is quite active and has been more active since I received shaktipat in absentia from Shri Anandi Ma. I'm just completing the 10 day phase of 108 bhuta shuddhi mantras after shaktipat, so during this time I've cooled the kunlun a bit for now. Mostly my hands, arms and face heat up, especially when my breathing is slow and gentle.

 

It is my understanding that Kunlun is "Shaking that cleans out the nadis (etheric, astral.. etc) pathways. Barabara Brennan describes the same "setting off of reflex shaking" in order to clear the pathways. Osho has a "kundalini meditation" which involves shaking. Dhyanyogi says that when kundalini is clearing the pathways, you will experience vibration and shaking.

 

Try this: hold your hand in front of your body and shake them up and down. Eventually, your hands will feel like a magnetic glove, the field extending out from the hands. It is a really neat feeling. The magnetic sensation kind of whiplashes around as you shake your hands. I didn't always feel the magnetic glove, but it became more pronounced the more I shake my hands. Samuel Sagan says that this is actually the etheric body. That magnetic field is what I believe kunlun activates and clears out, opening the various nadis, enabling the many kinds of prana to flow once again.

 

What I experience when I do Kunlun is (in my interpretation) waves or pulses of magnetic energy coming up from the feet, heat in the center of my head and then after the practice, tingling in the feet and legs and waves of energy flowing through the whole body. Kunlun is a very powerful cleanser and I believe it has greatly accelerated my psychic development; it opened my third eye a lot more and I believe it stimulates the pineal and pituitary glands in the head directly. (you can feel it heat up). Further, Max is a supremely powerful person which I learnt when I tuned into him psychically after listening to his radio show. I experienced shower of tingles and waves of bliss for 1 1/2 hours, could not believe what was happening, and I knew that Kunlun is something great. (I believe I wrote about that experience here on this forum a while ago..)

 

There are many airs or pranas/winds in the body. Kunlun is supposed to be a cooling downward flow, maybe it is. In Yoga, one downward flow is apana, but it is related to evacuation of the waste material from the body. I have never received a specific answer to the question "In which way does mixing Kunlun and Kundalini damage the body". The worst I've heard is that it can cause energy disease, which, according to Max's book, is incurable (or very hard to cure). However, in "The Clear Light Of Bliss" Geyatso (sp) says that meditating on a hollow body will eventually clear all types of energy flow diseases. So I'm not that worried.

 

I don't believe one should do both Kunlun and Kundalini at the same time, but you never really 'do kundalini', it does you. And yes, I believe kundalini is always flowing in everyone with varying degrees. The more space you can clear in your bodies (physical, etheric, astral, mental, causal etc) the more room it gives for the other energies to wake up and come into play. But, if you get surges up the spine, or pulsing at the perinium, or lots of heat and you feel large flames of fire licking your spine or engulfing you, this is not a good time to start bouncing your legs.

 

That said, as Yogani is famous for saying, "self pacing is a good thing".

 

Also, don't get too experimental with directing energy/prana or whatever into points in the body because apparently there are two places that can cause severe illness and death (behind the heart and behind the medulla -according to Taoist thought).

 

Until I can find some concrete evidence of very real verified dangers of practicing both kundalini and kunlun (just not at the same time), I will continue with my practices..

 

TI

[Yoda]

TI,

 

Cool thoughts esp re: etheric body.

 

Thanks!

Yoda

[Aetherous]

Yep great thoughts T.I.!

 

Just a tip: with kunlun (and in my opinion kundalini exercises) you aren't supposed to get a heat sensation in the head. If you do, fine, but it's not supposed to be thought of as a good sign...you know?

[johan]

Nice thoughts TI... its good to know that I am not the only one venturing into the world of Kunlun and Kundalini

 

If you see my other thread about Kunlun and Reiki Undo you will see that there is a system with a very similar practice like Kunlun. Now this is one of the old Japanese reiki techniques among many others. These other techniques definitely stimulate Kundalini, so here is an example of a system which does both....

 

 

Love

Per

[johan]

Let me know if there's an online or email way to keep track of his workshops. I really enjoyed being around him. It's my inkling that Lama Oscar is a key player who will keep these teachings available both inside and outside the Tibetan tradition.

 

Usually Jazz will inform us here on the taobums whenever Oscar will be teaching here in NJ. You could also join this meetup group and they will inform you through email

 

http://spirituality.meetup.com/76/

 

Hopefully Oscar will join us soon again.

 

 

Per

[Patrick Brown]

Cool thoughts esp re: etheric body.

Interesting online version of a famous book: THE ETHERIC DOUBLE - The Health Aura of Man by A. E. Powell: http://www.theosophical.ca/EthericDouble.htm

 

I can vouch for the existence of 'Vitality Globules' as I can see them easily and I've even been able to see them at a zoomed in level but that was years ago when I was more phychic. If you can see them zoomed in it's amazing as they almost look like little solar systems.

 

This from The Etheric Double:

The globules, on account of their brilliance and extreme activity, can be seen by almost any one who cares to look, darting about in the atmosphere in immense numbers, especially on a sunny day. The best way to see them is to face directly away from the sun and focus the eyes a few feet away, with a clear sky as background. Brilliant as is the globule, it is almost colourless, and may be compared to white light.

[Tibetan_Ice]

Yep great thoughts T.I.!

 

Just a tip: with kunlun (and in my opinion kundalini exercises) you aren't supposed to get a heat sensation in the head. If you do, fine, but it's not supposed to be thought of as a good sign...you know?

 

Beam me up Scotty!

In "Pillars of Bliss", on page 53 and then again on page 54, there are references to "blissful heat" listed as possible effects of practicing Kunlun. And, it says that the blissful heat will rise up into the head and go up into the crown.

 

In kundalini, the first step (apart from meditation, discipline, cleansing etc) is to create heat. You do this by mixing prana and apana. To get the apana going upward, you perform locks (tense the anus, perineum and abdomen). This stops the downward flow of apana, reverses it's course and causes it to accumulate at the lower tan tien. Then, through deep breathing, you pull in prana from breathing. The two mix together at the lower tan tien by putting pressure on it (or gulping will cause another type of prana to mix into it) and this causes heat. Once there is enough heat built, you direct that heat to the muladhara (root) chakra and keep cooking it. This wakens kundalini and causes her to rise..

Also, the rising of the kundalini causes heat as it burns the impurities along it's path.

Dhyanyogi also states in his "Light on Meditation" book that the yogis direct emotional energy to the muladhara chakra and that also causes it to heat up. Actually, it also says that intense emotion naturally heats up the root chakra, which is probably why a lot of people experience kundalini awakenings after events in their lives which produce lots of emotion (depression, joy, hate, etc..).

 

In Taoism, chi is hot. Reverse breathing or embryonic breathing also causes heat, except that the Taoists then cycle the chi round the body in the MC Orbit, small orbit, reversed orbit etc. Have you ever seen John Chang light a paper on fire with his hands?

 

 

In Reiki, when you direct healing energy, it is hot. You can feel the heat as it follows your attention and will..

 

So you see, heat is an essential component of most every teaching. So, I'm not sure where you are getting your information from..

 

TI