western magic

[Taoist81]

Witches generally aren't interested in the same things as magicians, mostly just health, wealth and love and growing green things, taking care of little ones. Protection too, when necessary. And daily luck. That's about it. Demon power, immortality, controlling others--those are eighth house things, not fourth house things. Ceremonial magic is about control, witchcraft is about obedience.

 

Most ceremonial magicians are interested in raising the mundane to the divine, uniting with "the ultimate" or the tao, all the wealth, etc is secondary. Though Crowley for one thought having children and raising them properly was very important. Anyone who studies GD or Crowley's work realizes quickly why "controlling others" is wrong and a path to destruction. "Demon power" depends on the practitioner, in the A.'.A.'. once one has been practicing some time on does have to show proficiency in working with so called "demons" but if you google Crowley's "Initiated Interpretation of Magick" you get a very different perspective. From this point of view controlling "demons" is nothing more than conquering the lower parts of oneself. As for immortality, if you mean physical, neither Crowley nor anyone in the Golden Dawn, even Regardie's later branch, advocated this. If you mean spiritual, most of them believed that we are already spiritually immortal after a fashion. The Work was to unite the immortal spark with the Absolute.

 

edit: this is worth quoting here:

 

In Magick in Theory and Practice, Chapter XIV, Crowley says:

"What is a Magical Operation? It may be defined as any event in nature which is brought to pass by Will. We must not exclude potato-growing or banking from our definition. Let us take a very simple example of a Magical Act: that of a man blowing his nose."

Elsewhere he wrote:

"One must find out for oneself, and make sure beyond doubt, who one is, what one is, why one is...Being thus conscious of the proper course to pursue, the next thing is to understand the conditions necessary to following it out. After that, one must eliminate from oneself every element alien or hostile to success, and develop those parts of oneself which are specially needed to control the aforesaid conditions."

 

And: "The first condition of membership of the A.'.A.'. is that one is sworn to identify one's own Great Work with that of raising mankind to higher levels, spiritually, and in every other way." (Magick Without Tears, ch. 9)

 

Taoist81,

 

I'm really not here to argue or prove myself to you or anyone else here. I was really just trying to answer your original question of how neigong had proven itself valid to me. Talk is cheap, I realize that, and hopefully one day I can develop to a level to pass scientific scrutiny like J.Chang or Wim Hof etc.

 

You asked me about the reactions I got, I have preformed this projection test well in excess of 20 times, and each time I get an immediate and direct response in my subject. I usually attempt my experiments either when I am staying at a friends house for the night or they are staying at my house. In both cases we are usually in the same room, and the guest gets the couch. I usually meditate doing 3 breaths per minute or less for over 4 hours before attempting to project my chi into them. I am very calm and still making no noise whatsoever.

 

When I am staying the night at their house, usually both my friend and his girlfriend sleep on their bed in the living room (efficiency apt), and I stay on the couch adjacent from them. When I project the chi it is as if it is an extension or an extra appendage and it has full tactile sensory ability. I can watch either subject sit strait up from a deep sleep, and scream. I usually play dumb and say are you ok. "whats wrong"? I usually get a response like they had a nightmare where a cold hand was inside them or something similar. I can wait two or three more hours and repeat the same experiment with the girlfriend with similar results, every time within seconds of the projection.

 

Like I said I've repeated this same experiment many times over, and had immediate response. I realize this isn't scientific nor is it conclusive proof, but for me there is no question. I am dedicated to achieving ascension in this lifetime, I intend to or die trying.

 

None of it was meant as an argument, it was just a simple question that you answered pretty well. That is an interesting, albeit probably disturbing for your "friend", test. It actually sounds very much like some of the practices in the Western tradition when working with the Body of Light, extending, contracting affecting the surrounding environment. Though in the West doing things to unsuspecting individuals without consent is taboo.

Thanks.

 

Real magic is to do with the mind and manipulating peoples conciousness.

 

This is a misconception. Manipulating others is dangerous and considered wrong by most who practice "real magick". It's sole goal is the uniting of the microcosm and the macrocosm. Not really at all different from "becoming one with the tao".

Edited July 24, 2008 by Taoist81

[HupGerk]

Good thread.

 

For a somewhat different perspective on western occultism, this is a good site: http://www.8thmatrixpress.com

The book "Ceremonial Magic and the Power of Evocation" by Dr. Lisiewski is an excellent read and is definately a bit more hardcore than the usual new agey fluff...

 

HG

[.broken.]

First of all folks, this is a great read. Thank you phore for starting this thread, and thank you all those who have participated so far. May kindness follow you for the rest of your days

 

I have met the odd magician, and seen the odd bit of proof that magic works. My journey has always skirted around the subject with just the occasional dipping into the waters. From what I have seen the manipulation of seemingly external entities and situations does work - though it works more consistently if there is correct (for want of a better word) motivation and intention.

 

To my mind, this isn't really any different to proper use of yi. Intention really does seem to be key in the vast multitude of practices that exist. Perhaps developing more and more refined intention is the one and only practice to which all others lead??

 

This is a misconception. Manipulating others is dangerous and considered wrong by most who practice "real magick". It's sole goal is the uniting of the microcosm and the macrocosm. Not really at all different from "becoming one with the tao".

 

I have to agree with this statement wholeheartedly. All spiritual paths lead to the same goal.

 

The difficulty lies in constantly 'progressing' (although, ultimately, there is no progressing to be done).

 

Those who fail at magic, of which this thread has shown to be many, just go part of the way and don't progress beyond whatever point they reach. Buddhism in particular is rife with warnings of the pitfalls associated with chasing after illusions that result due to spiritual progress. Perhaps some of those magic 'practioners' could do with reading some of this advice...

 

I mentioned above that manipulating "seemingly external entities and situations does work". I used the word seemingly for a reason. Both the microcosm and macrocosm are in constant play. There's just the illusion that the microcosm is on it's own in this BIG place - produced by what many would call the mind.

 

Whether one invokes demons or watches the mind to gain insight doesn't particularly matter. It's just a matter of method. Seeing your lust, desire, greed, hate, anger, fear, hope, disgust, enjoyment, etc. arise in your mind and not attaching is the same as seeing the material manifestation of a particular aspect of (your) self before you and subduing it.

 

Just my thoughts floating by...

James

Edited July 24, 2008 by .broken.

[Yoda]

HG,

 

I followed that link to the amazon reviews. I liked the guy who said that this is for conjuring entities who will appear right before your eyes... anyone here been able to do that through magical symbols, mantras, and ceremonies?

 

Yoda

[phore]

Hmmm....

 

I stay away from the Golden Dawn and Aleister Crowley and all that, I guess I shouldn't be commenting on being a magician. I guess I'd make a distinction in the term "magic," or "magick" if you're going to be, well, whatever that is.

 

There are three sorts of western magic, witches, magicians, and a third kind. They all use the word "magic" so it can get confusing. I don't know about ceremonial magicians, but I know to be an effective witch a woman must work with time. Everything is in the timing of things.

 

Witches generally aren't interested in the same things as magicians, mostly just health, wealth and love and growing green things, taking care of little ones. Protection too, when necessary. And daily luck. That's about it. Demon power, immortality, controlling others--those are eighth house things, not fourth house things. Ceremonial magic is about control, witchcraft is about obedience.

 

I was drawn to witchcraft from pure pragmatism, precisely because it does work, and not just in some microcosmic way.

 

are there any good books to earn to become a witch that you know of

do you think that your unseen power (the course from the first post in this thread) would teach witchcraft?

 

ty

Edited July 25, 2008 by phore

[Seth Ananda]

HG,

 

I followed that link to the amazon reviews. I liked the guy who said that this is for conjuring entities who will appear right before your eyes... anyone here been able to do that through magical symbols, mantras, and ceremonies?

 

Yoda

I didn't follow that link so I'm not sure what that process was, but yes I have done this alone and with the help of others.

Quite an experience.

Seth.

[jaloo]

thinking about checking out http://doloresashcroft-nowicki.com/ this persons stuff.

particularly the your unseen power course

 

what do you guys think about it

 

Phore,

 

If your intent is to progress in the western traditions, this course is a solid start on the path of the Great Work. It is far more accessible than digging through Crowley, Grant, etc. It basically provides the outer court training aspects of the Servants of the Light.

 

Having worked with a couple of initiates of that order in the past, if their attainment was any indicator, it provides solid results.

[freeform]

Good thread!

 

Before Crowley, the west had very little 'spirituality' independent from relligion. Crowley started the 'new age' - he brought yoga and othe eastern spiritual ideas to us, he ignited the revival of spirituality that we now take for granted.

 

The aim of magickal practice is not 'external' - manifesting/controlling etc. The first step is to discover your True Will - which is a huge achievement in itself - living according to your True Will is equivalent to Wu Wei in Taoist terminology - it's living your destiny effortlessly - magick is the practice of discovering and then acting out your True Will...

 

Magick is very pragmatic - it adopts any practice that works... so magickal practice is very varied... In terms of rituals - a properly performed banishing ritual (simple space - clearing ritual) can bring about the most incredible, palpable change of atmosphere in a room... I have not tried or experienced any of the high-level rituals, but judging by my experiences with the very simple ones, I can tell there is a lot of power there...

 

I don't practice magick anylonger - although certain techniques I use have a definite similarity to rituals - just less ceremony... Kunlun has replaced most of my practices - I was already moving away from 'directed' practices so it fits for me...

 

The Mao Shan lineage has a similar feel to some western-magickal lineages...

[witch]

Let's see. It's hard for me to respond because I am coming from such a different place.

 

I have no interest in uniting with the Ultimate or being an immortal or whatever. I've already had the uniting-with-the-ultimate experience by having a crown chakra orgasm, but I'd rather have uniting-with-another-person sixth chakra orgasms.

 

I would say my beliefs are founded in astrology. If I have a guiding principle it is to follow my north node. This process is very difficult for everybody, and there are 144 permutations of the north node--more if you count planet conjunctions, so people have their individual paths. What is good for one person can be bad for another. I believe in astrology because I have feeling the effects of transits since birth, and this makes sense and allows me to plan ahead instead of always fighting with myself. I have Pisces rising so it is easy for me to feel the transits, among other things. Magic is just a way of taking advantage in particular of the water planet transits (moon, Neptune, Pluto). Witchcraft, the magic I practice, takes advantage of lunar transits.

 

My north node is Gemini second house. The material world is hard for me, especially money and beauty and sensual pleasure. I take advantage of witchcraft and everything else I can get my hands on to increase those things. My magic is extremely materialistic. I've also hexed for other things like health, but the second house is my main focus.

 

Gemini I must focus on being amoral. It's hard for me; I was an insufferably moralistic prig as a child and young woman. All of my intent is focused on being light, cheerful and superficial. Mercurial, a trickster.

 

As for learning witchcraft, I have never come across a wiccan book that gets it right. Everything is twisted up and wrong, but almost every book does contain some true and useful things. The difficulty is in distinguishing the good from the bad. I have purposely avoided ceremonial magic, because that is eighth house and very unlucky for me. It comes too easy for me, my south node, and can only lead to a bad end. Neptune energy isn't bad, but it is bothersome and unavoidable in my case with Pisces rising. Piscean people have the sight, and it is annoying as hell. It's always in reaction, although sometimes some useful knowledge can be gleaned, particularly the future--for example, I put my 401K in bonds back when they were cheap, I knew this was coming.

 

But witchcraft--using the moon's energy, that's useful. The moon is a cardinal planet so a witch can direct the magic, make positive changes. The moon is ephemeral so the changes are not lasting unless renewed each month. The fundamentals of witchcraft require first a thorough understanding of astrology, I recommend

 

http://www.astro.com

 

to get a start (it's free). There are not three phases of the moon, or four, there are only two when it comes to witchcraft--waxing and waning (yang and yin). The times for spellwork are the hours after a new moon, the hours after a full moon, the hours after the moon trines and conjuncts and opposes natal planets, and the hours after the moon trines and conjuncts and opposes other planets.

 

Spellwork is dependent upon correspondences, and this is where wiccan books can be helpful. Colors, herbs, stones, candles, incense, metals and particular gods and goddesses are helpful. Venus rules my second house, I have Taurus on the cusp, so I follow Venus, I honor Venus in my observances. My particular Aquarius Venus and Gemini second house meshes best with the silliness of the Egyptian Venus Hathor, famous for lifting Ra out of his depression and making him laugh with her comical lewd dancing.

 

Most importantly, nothing can be done with witchcraft, with moon magic, without desire. The moon rules emotional energy and desire, wanting things. If someone, say a taoist, kills off desire then it is impossible to do witchcraft (maybe another kind of magic). That's why it's hard to do witchcraft for other people, because the desire must be personal and sincere.

 

A good beginner's book for moon magic is Jan Spiller's New Moon Astrology.

 

http://www.amazon.com/New-Moon-Astrology-S...1341&sr=8-3

[phore]

thanks for the info

 

i dont think taoism is about eliminating desire. i think its about eliminating attachment.

 

desire moves forward. attachment gets dragged forward kicking and screaming.

 

desire is what makes taoism work in my opinion.

[Synophion]

Unfortunately there are those with delusions of grandeur in all systems. Talk to enough people involved in Asian practices, some qigong "masters" included, and you will find people who believe they can do "amazing things" with nothing more than their imagination to show for it. Magick does often involve seals, symbols, rituals etc. but the primary focus of most of the Western Mystery Tradition (not speaking for Wicca etc. here) is lifting the microcosm to the macrocosm. This is not, despite the way it may sound, something that leads to delusions of "hollowing out mountains". Even Aleister Crowley, who made some outlandish claims in his day, defined magick as ANY willed act and pointed out that "magickal results" normally take the form of natural effects. The real change is inside you.

 

The few things that most people have seen any qigong or taoist masters do are as spurious as any claims of psychics. Thus far anytime a "master" has tried to use his "qi" publicly to combat a real opponent or to demonstrate their abilities in a controlled environment they have failed. Other effects that have been displayed have been easily duplicated by illusionists. Now, this is not to say that these things "can't" be done, or are being faked. It is only that the important part of any cultivation method is what happens "inside" the practitioner. If you look at these nut job televangelists they can display their "power" over individuals under their charismatic influence, but their teachings are empty on deeper evaluation. Following only those who "walk the walk" is a good credo, but basing the perception of that walk off their open display of "power" is not.

 

Proven their effectiveness how? Internally? Yeah, sure. Most if not all of us here have had "internal" experiences from qigong. Some of us have even experienced feeling another persons "qi". These things you can easily find with someone who has practiced Western Magick for at least a short while with some dedication. One issue that does arise as a difference between east/west traditions is that there are many more people who "practice" western methods (at least they claim to), that actually do no real work and just smoke pot and do a banishing ritual to call themselves wizards. Because eastern methods are often wrapped with martial arts or other specific traditions it is harder to get away with calling yourself a "qigong master" with no real training or practice. This is an advantage of participating with one of the different groups out their. The A.'.A.'. in particular doesn't pass members to a new grade until they have demonstrated their abilities through testing by the Order. They also consider accepting money for training an offense with the penalty of permanent expulsion. Some other groups have dues they charge to support temple space etc.. But for the majority of the groups your training is tested. However, the number of "practitioners" that are part of any group is far lower than the number of people who claim to practice "magick".

 

An interesting thread to any who has had any reasonable expereince in the Neo-pagan/Western Magical approach and made enjoyable reading, however as a Tao Bums 'lurker' I was moved to agree with much of what Taoist81 has said above.

 

Syn

[abramelin]

It was interesting to see that the subject of western tradition has come just after I myself started/ starting to try out western ceremonial magick . I have been doing The Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram now for a month and I am starting to try out the Middle pillar meditation.

 

I did notice that the LBRP is a very effective exercise, what it does to me is that it shuts of the "monkey chatter" and my mind becomes more quiet, like after a session of meditation.

 

I don't think that the western methods are that bad at all, just a different pragmatic approach to get to the same point.

 

I would like to hear the benefits from practicing LBRP from someone here who has done that for a longer period and what difference(result wise) this type of practice has from qi gong.

 

I do believe that both practices can be complementary.

 

//john

[freeform]

I would like to hear the benefits from practicing LBRP from someone here who has done that for a longer period and what difference(result wise) this type of practice has from qi gong.

 

There is no answer for that question - 'qi gong' covers a huge number of different practices - and LBRP is just one practice... however - it's most similar to something like the six healing sounds, and fusion in qi gong terms...

[abramelin]

There is no answer for that question - 'qi gong' covers a huge number of different practices - and LBRP is just one practice... however - it's most similar to something like the six healing sounds, and fusion in qi gong terms...

 

I have done the six healing sounds exercise, that exercise gives me the feeling of cleaning the body energies, i was amazed how much mucus i had to clear out from my throat after my first session. The LRBP seams to me to focus on clearing the mind. Or the microcomos as it is told.

 

A interesting thing was that in the days that followed my new practice, my dream life, or dream recall went into overdrive. The vividness of the dreams increased massively and it was like i was doing a spring cleaning in my dreamworld from all types of weird critters and animals. From what i understand this is what is supposed to happen, you turn on the light and scare away astral parasites etc.

 

 

 

 

//john

[freeform]

I have done the six healing sounds exercise, that exercise gives me the feeling of cleaning the body energies, i was amazed how much mucus i had to clear out from my throat after my first session. The LRBP seams to me to focus on clearing the mind. Or the microcomos as it is told.

 

Yeah - the difference is that with LBRP you're clearing outwards and with the healing sounds you're clearing inwards... very similar in that in both instances you're clearing your 'ritual space' - one is in your body, the other - 'out' in the room (and in the mind)

[mwight]

I still would like to see some western "Witch" "Warlock" or practitioner of Magick in general show some amazing abilities like J. Chang, Wim Hoff, or Wang Li-Ping, Robert Peng Etc. Has anyone ever heard of any similar abilities gained through years of magickal practice and study? I haven't. It seems to be of little value if you actually want to accomplish something like ascension.

[abramelin]

I still would like to see some western "Witch" "Warlock" or practitioner of Magick in general show some amazing abilities like J. Chang, Wim Hoff, or Wang Li-Ping, Robert Peng Etc. Has anyone ever heard of any similar abilities gained through years of magickal practice and study? I haven't. It seems to be of little value if you actually want to accomplish something like ascension.

 

Nowadays you do hear about "amazing" abilities on forums and such, but to believe it is another thing.

 

An explanation why there HAS been/still is a wall of silence about these things of the western tradition is that at certain times in Europe you would be burned at the stake for just making herbal medicine. Or just a rumor that you might of...

 

So if you could manipulate what we call reality, you would keep it to your self.

 

//john

[jaloo]

I still would like to see some western "Witch" "Warlock" or practitioner of Magick in general show some amazing abilities like J. Chang, Wim Hoff, or Wang Li-Ping, Robert Peng Etc. Has anyone ever heard of any similar abilities gained through years of magickal practice and study? I haven't. It seems to be of little value if you actually want to accomplish something like ascension.

 

 

Why would anyone wish to demonstrate an ability for you? Are you a dedicated practitioner of a western path? What value would it be for any adept of any path to demonstrate an ability for you?

[Michael81]

It was interesting to see that the subject of western tradition has come just after I myself started/ starting to try out western ceremonial magick . I have been doing The Lesser Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram now for a month and I am starting to try out the Middle pillar meditation.

 

I did notice that the LBRP is a very effective exercise, what it does to me is that it shuts of the "monkey chatter" and my mind becomes more quiet, like after a session of meditation.

 

I don't think that the western methods are that bad at all, just a different pragmatic approach to get to the same point.

 

I would like to hear the benefits from practicing LBRP from someone here who has done that for a longer period and what difference(result wise) this type of practice has from qi gong.

 

I do believe that both practices can be complementary.

 

//john

 

I did these rituals for a time and noticed increased psychic ability and sometimes premonitions. It's also good to do the invoking form of the pentagram ritual - some do LIRP morning and LBRP at night.

[Taomeow]

Why would anyone wish to demonstrate an ability for you? Are you a dedicated practitioner of a western path? What value would it be for any adept of any path to demonstrate an ability for you?

I guess whenever people ask for "proof for proof's sake" of any abilities, "eastern" or "western," they operate on the assumption that a dare is reason enough for anyone to perform on demand, that as soon as someone (typically someone not merely skeptical but more often than not dismissive, disrespectful, or outright hostile) cares to install a hoop, scores of eager masters and witches and sorcerers will line up to jump. And if you install a hoop and they refuse to jump, it means they can't do it. When I was five years old, it was a fair assumption among my kindergarten peers.

 

However, the very first commandment of the Witches' of England, according to a rather fascinating book written in the 50s, Witchcraft Today, goes, "Never brag, never threaten." To demo those abilities on demand would amount to violating the first rule. You can rest assured that a witch or a sorceress who brags or threatens the use of special abilities does so in jest, simply because she isn't taking her audience seriously enough to be serious about it. Not unlike a taijiquan teacher, not my main one but a guy who taught me some hostile applications, would tell me, "I'm going to kill you by doing this," or "it's all over, you're done for" while showing a move -- knowing full well that he could make it true, knowing full well he never would! Similarly, a witch or a sorceress will say it only if she isn't going to do it, and she will demo it only in such a way as to cause it to "fail" because she wants it to fail. (My friend wanted his killer moves to fail at all times -- or he wouldn't be showing them to someone he wasn't going to kill!)

 

Trivializing magical words in a non-magical mundane context dispels and disperses their power. Performing magical acts on demand like a trained monkey does way more of the same. Personally, I would only use a demo or even a promise of a demo in order to bust some dangerous energy that I feel brewing within myself which I don't want to turn into action because of moral or karmic considerations, which are a strong deterrent for some. The most difficult thing for "the real thing" is to control herself... not others. If she really wants to do it, and to hell with karmic complications -- then she will show, not tell. It will happen, but she won't be the one being held responsible, uh-uh. She will never show for show's sake, anymore than she will have sex with you for the sole purpose of proving she can.

[jaloo]

I guess whenever people ask for "proof for proof's sake" of any abilities, "eastern" or "western," they operate on the assumption that a dare is reason enough for anyone to perform on demand, that as soon as someone (typically someone not merely skeptical but more often than not dismissive, disrespectful, or outright hostile) cares to install a hoop, scores of eager masters and witches and sorcerers will line up to jump. And if you install a hoop and they refuse to jump, it means they can't do it. When I was five years old, it was a fair assumption among my kindergarten peers.

 

However, the very first commandment of the Witches' of England, according to a rather fascinating book written in the 50s, Witchcraft Today, goes, "Never brag, never threaten." To demo those abilities on demand would amount to violating the first rule. You can rest assured that a witch or a sorceress who brags or threatens the use of special abilities does so in jest, simply because she isn't taking her audience seriously enough to be serious about it. Not unlike a taijiquan teacher, not my main one but a guy who taught me some hostile applications, would tell me, "I'm going to kill you by doing this," or "it's all over, you're done for" while showing a move -- knowing full well that he could make it true, knowing full well he never would! Similarly, a witch or a sorceress will say it only if she isn't going to do it, and she will demo it only in such a way as to cause it to "fail" because she wants it to fail. (My friend wanted his killer moves to fail at all times -- or he wouldn't be showing them to someone he wasn't going to kill!)

 

Trivializing magical words in a non-magical mundane context dispels and disperses their power. Performing magical acts on demand like a trained monkey does way more of the same. Personally, I would only use a demo or even a promise of a demo in order to bust some dangerous energy that I feel brewing within myself which I don't want to turn into action because of moral or karmic considerations, which are a strong deterrent for some. The most difficult thing for "the real thing" is to control herself... not others. If she really wants to do it, and to hell with karmic complications -- then she will show, not tell. It will happen, but she won't be the one being held responsible, uh-uh. She will never show for show's sake, anymore than she will have sex with you for the sole purpose of proving she can.

 

Well put and far more complete and elegant than my post.

[mwight]

Why would anyone wish to demonstrate an ability for you? Are you a dedicated practitioner of a western path? What value would it be for any adept of any path to demonstrate an ability for you?

 

because I don't want to learn higher teachings from someone who is delusional or has a practice which is worthless.

[Taomeow]

thanks, jaloo!

 

because I don't want to learn higher teachings from someone who is delusional or has a practice which is worthless.

 

Fair enough. By the same token, someone who is not delusional and whose practice is not worthless does not necessarily want to teach, and even if they do want to teach, they might be very picky as to who they want to teach -- nothing personal, it's just about whether the relationship is what they call "predestined" or not; and even if they want to teach everybody... um, no, it's impossible to teach everybody, there's people who can't and there's people who shouldn't be taught, and a real master can often tell who they are.

 

But if it so happens that there's someone who wants to teach you out there, they will let you know they're the real thing. They will let you, personally, know, not "everybody." And once they do, you aren't going to be in the position to doubt them. There's an episode where Ram Dass describes his first meeting with his to-be guru. He was, at the time, an accomplished Ph.D., professor at a top university, and he didn't believe in any of "that stuff." So, at their first meeting, the future teacher didn't show him any magic tricks. Instead, he told him, "yesterday late at night you were alone in the open, looking at the stars and thinking about your mother. Your mother died recently, of a spleen disease." Something to this effect. The interesting part being that his mother did die thousands of miles away at a US hospital, and that it was a spleen disease -- Ram Dass knew he had never mentioned it to anyone, never spoke of his mother to anyone in India, but most importantly, the night before the conversation he was indeed outside (in another town!), looking at the stars and thinking of his mother. He fell to his knees before the guru, and was never disappointed ever since.

 

That's pretty typical, actually. A similar thing happened to me -- when someone tells you something that the only way they can possibly know is by knowing how to be you... this kind of magic trick you don't doubt.

[witch]

Well I did sort of break that, um, my ex-husband dared me on something, he said (we live in Boston) "If you're such a hot witch, can't you do something about the Red Sox?" They were down three against the Yankees. Not that I did that on my own! There was lots of energy from others with that, a lot of Red Sox fans out there. But after that he didn't give me a hard time about anything, really, and even one time when he was suddenly afflicted with a mysterious disfiguring untreatable rash all over his face and body, he actually asked me if I did it to him. So I guess it turned out okay, he doesn't mess with me anymore.

 

That was one time where I did mess with eighth house things--did a hex on Babe Ruth.

[Seth Ananda]

Well I did sort of break that, um, my ex-husband dared me on something, he said (we live in Boston) "If you're such a hot witch, can't you do something about the Red Sox?" They were down three against the Yankees. Not that I did that on my own! There was lots of energy from others with that, a lot of Red Sox fans out there. But after that he didn't give me a hard time about anything, really, and even one time when he was suddenly afflicted with a mysterious disfiguring untreatable rash all over his face and body, he actually asked me if I did it to him. So I guess it turned out okay, he doesn't mess with me anymore.

 

That was one time where I did mess with eighth house things--did a hex on Babe Ruth.

Ahh Thats great It reminds me of that soccer team, Senegal i think, they fired there Witchdoctor and didnt pay him cause they wanted to clean up their image or something, and they lost every game till they rehired him and then started winning again. The camera would zoom in on him sometimes in matches jumping about shaking bones and rattles.

I hope you shook some bones...

Seth