Tell me more about this John Chang.

[Patrick Brown]

Found this vid and I'm aware that he's talked about here but what's the story?

 

 

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name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="

type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

 

[Ryan T.]

Found this vid and I'm aware that he's talked about here but what's the story?

 

The Magus of Java!

[Patrick Brown]

The Magus of Java!

 

This from an Amazon review of above book:

"While many martial arts and bioenergetic schools work exclusively with yang energy (and a few work with yin energy), there are precious few who appreciate and integrate a combination of the yin energy with the yang. The system of neikung that John Chang teaches contains 72 levels of mastery, and the reason that only the first four are rudimentarily covered in this book is that it is extremely dangerous to practice these meditations without a teacher's guidance. Several people died as this form of neikung was being developed by trial-and-error, since the two energies of yin and yang when compressed and placed side by side have tremendous power to destroy."

 

Excuse the joke but it does sound like these people are playing with fire!

[Kronos]

what exactly do you want to know about john chang or kostas? maybe I can help you.

Edited April 7, 2009 by Kronos

[Prince...]

I tried to e-mail Kostas back in early February to thank him for writing the books, but I never really heard back from him.

 

I'm sure he gets lots of random emails from people that track down his school's website so I wasn't too upset. That's cool that you are his student, though. I had a question about the last part of his second book, on the meditation...not so much a "okay, so what's the secret?" type thing...I just wanted to know if I do some sitting and standing meditation along with my regular kungfu stuff will I be okay until I find a system of my own?

[Kronos]

first of all: where did you send the mail?

Edited April 7, 2009 by Kronos

[The Way 1]

I would love to learn more about John Chnag. The video posted above and other videos I have found have very limited information about him. Can anyone tell me more or share some other information they may have about his technique?

[gendao]

first of all: where did you send the mail? *@gmail?

second: I'm one of Kostas's Pammachon-students. We do no more learn the mo pai nei kung meditations because too many people got sick.

Sorry for my bad English.

How is Kostas's health now?

 

Is it true that he ended up with stomach cancer or something from trying to go past Level 3 on his own...or something like that? No offense, just curious?

[Prince...]

first of all: where did you send the mail? *@gmail?

second: I'm one of Kostas's Pammachon-students. We do no more learn the mo pai nei kung meditations because too many people got sick.

Sorry for my bad English.

 

I think I got it from the Pammachon website. I sent it to a hotmail address that I will send to you in a PM.

[HouTian]

Im amazaed at the fact that people are still wanting to find out about John Chang. Its been stated thousands of times that the School is Closed For Westerners. Whats worse some American have decided to pass out Half Pie "Incomplete" Instruction & Comedic Videos, Yet doesnt even know what level He's at to Begin with ! But people are Foolish & Have the Audacity To continue Showing Up at Shifus Private Home Begging for Instruction, Somehow Thinking They will be the ones who will be Accepted. You watch too much Television.Its not a Personal choice But an Order.

 

If anybody is thinking of Going There better save Your Money & Much Disappointment by following the Advice that has been Posted Continuously for almost 5 years Now. Many have left with Tears in Their eye but They should have listened in the First Place. Move on & stop Riding a Dead Horse. Leave this Man & His Family in Peace for Gods Sakes. As for the American.........Your lucky You are still Alive & Even Crazier To think You will get away with Your Actions Unpunished.

 

Regards,

[Ryan T.]

As for the American.........Your lucky You are still Alive & Even Crazier To think You will get away with Your Actions Unpunished.

 

Regards,

 

I just love when the internets gets all retribution-esque!

 

Not everyone has been around the block as much as everyone else. I agree about respecting a teacher's family, privacy, space, and such but I would have to say inquiry/knowledge is a good thing. In fact, it is what this forum is for. People ask questions when they do not know the answers.

[Gerard]

first of all: where did you send the mail? *@gmail?

second: I'm one of Kostas's Pammachon-students. We do no more learn the mo pai nei kung meditations because too many people got sick.

Sorry for my bad English.

 

The fire path is the short way but riddled with dangers.

 

The water path is much longer but safer and ends up in the the same place.

 

Not many see this. They just want freaking siddhis.

 

Combine a more "fire" Internal Art like Xingyi with Wuji stance and you'll be set.

[genmaicha]

...Whats worse some American have decided to pass out Half Pie "Incomplete" Instruction & Comedic Videos, Yet doesnt even know what level He's at to Begin with ! ...

. As for the American.........Your lucky You are still Alive & Even Crazier To think You will get away with Your Actions Unpunished.

 

Who are you talking about?

 

Its not a Personal choice But an Order.

 

Regards,

 

What makes you the authority on this?

[Patrick Brown]

There seems to be a variety of opinions about John Chang. Is he the real deal or does he just do parlour tricks to make himself appear more powerful than he really is? I've got no problem with him having a system for energy cultivation but I don't buy into magic and tricks. The physical plane has rules which may be bent but can't be broken just as there are rules for the dream plane and mental plane.

 

I suspect that most of these, so called, masters start out fine but then become power pissed and simply end up screwy. Even people like Ram Dass worry me as he often comes across as someone who's somewhat self deluded:

 

 

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type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

 

 

Probably the only true master / teacher I've ever heard of is Krishnamurti. I know a lot of people don't like him but I think he has immense clarity.

 

 

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[Gerard]

There seems to be a variety of opinions about John Chang. Is he the real deal or does he just do parlour tricks to make himself appear more powerful than he really is? I've got no problem with him having a system for energy cultivation but I don't buy into magic and tricks. The physical plane has rules which may be bent but can't be broken just as there are rules for the dream plane and mental plane.

 

 

No, you are wrong here. He is for real but he made a mistake by going public.

 

Siddhis are real but don't get lured by them and focus in your mind.

 

Take care.

[HouTian]

Genmaicha,

 

i never claimed to be an authority on anything,just telling things how they are. And yes the truth often hurts.

As for the american guy,you should know who im talking about. I wont be commenting on this matter any further.

 

Regards,

[Prince...]

 

As for the american guy,you should know who im talking about.

 

I have no clue who the american guy is, but I posted everything I've been told about John Chang in this thread:

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/John-Changs-1st-...dent-t5786.html

 

I asked Jim to comment on it, but I really don't think he will log back onto this site. This conflicts with everything I have ever read online concerning Mo Pai. Either way, I would love to meet John Chang just to meet him, not to become his student. There are other teachers and other schools out there that don't even get discussed here. I would prefer to find one of them.

[Kronos]

How is Kostas's health now?

 

he's fine

Edited July 25, 2008 by Kronos

[markern]

There seems to be a variety of opinions about John Chang. Is he the real deal or does he just do parlour tricks to make himself appear more powerful than he really is? I've got no problem with him having a system for energy cultivation but I don't buy into magic and tricks. The physical plane has rules which may be bent but can't be broken just as there are rules for the dream plane and mental plane.

 

I suspect that most of these, so called, masters start out fine but then become power pissed and simply end up screwy. Even people like Ram Dass worry me as he often comes across as someone who's somewhat self deluded:

 

 

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="

name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="

type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

 

 

Probably the only true master / teacher I've ever heard of is Krishnamurti. I know a lot of people don't like him but I think he has immense clarity.

 

 

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gZC_Z-BGvc&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param'>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gZC_Z-BGvc&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gZC_Z-BGvc&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

 

 

 

Krishnamurti might have been an excellent teachers but he was not truly enlightened. At least not if being a horrible person excludes being enlightened, and he was a horrible person. Check out his bio. When confronted by a friend with the fact that he several times pressured girls he had impregnated to have abortions and lie about their affairs with him, his reply was screaming "i have no ego" with tremendous rage. So much for his inner peace. Sleeping with ones spiritual students is even worse than when a psychotherepist sleeps with his client because the spiritual master have even more power over his student. Why could Krishnamurti not pas this simple moral test when most therapists easily can? Why are most spiritual masters not able to pass this simple test either? (Jack Kornfield found in his interviews with famous meditation masters that the majority had slept with their students) Krisnahmurti was basicly a deluded narcisist like so many other "masters". It seems like very few masters are as ethical or compassionate as people I already know and that hasen`t practiced any sort of spiritual tradition. For example, while I found Mantak Chia to be a nice guy, he do not come close to the nicest ordinary people I know. Why after so many hours of practice does so litle change other than the practioner feeling good and being healthy and becoming charismatic.

[Vajrasattva]

THere are many teachers Like J Chang. But they are not so public. I know of one Javanese master from Banten who is the real deal ILmu Kebatinan. And can do some serious energy work. He is a serious healer & Silat master of Cimande.

 

To study with this person requires one to become a Sufi.

 

If you have no problem learning Arabic & training your ass off then this Guru is the way to go.

 

There are others like this in Java as well.

 

I know of one that can Iron clothes with his hands etherically and remove the wrinkles!

 

Peace

 

Santiago

[Dr.Harout]

Just my opinion....I believe in John Chang's abilities...watched the clip how he does the fire...he is very high level in his art.

[Patrick Brown]

Krishnamurti might have been an excellent teachers but he was not truly enlightened. At least not if being a horrible person excludes being enlightened, and he was a horrible person. Check out his bio. When confronted by a friend with the fact that he several times pressured girls he had impregnated to have abortions and lie about their affairs with him, his reply was screaming "i have no ego" with tremendous rage. So much for his inner peace. Sleeping with ones spiritual students is even worse than when a psychotherepist sleeps with his client because the spiritual master have even more power over his student. Why could Krishnamurti not pas this simple moral test when most therapists easily can? Why are most spiritual masters not able to pass this simple test either? (Jack Kornfield found in his interviews with famous meditation masters that the majority had slept with their students) Krisnahmurti was basicly a deluded narcisist like so many other "masters". It seems like very few masters are as ethical or compassionate as people I already know and that hasen`t practiced any sort of spiritual tradition. For example, while I found Mantak Chia to be a nice guy, he do not come close to the nicest ordinary people I know. Why after so many hours of practice does so litle change other than the practioner feeling good and being healthy and becoming charismatic.

Well I didn't know that he had slept with students (if it's true) and I never thought K was enlightened but he is pretty good at pointing. I think in some cases it's the students that sleep with the masters and not the other way round. I mean if you're a grown man, of what ever age, and a beautiful girl/women throws herself at you, well! I do find it ironic that even the Buddha was accused of getting a girl pregnant although that's just a story so who knows.

 

A friend of mine once lived in the same house as K and told me he was an arrogant freak! But I'm not judging K I'm just someone who thought some of his pointing was pretty good.

 

My personal view of enlightenment is that women and the sexual desire that they arouse can be a major stumbling block for aspirants. I might further suggest that it's almost impossible for people in a sexual relationship to attain to enlightenment although this doesn't mean they can't attain to great wisdom. I'm not saying women are more or less involved in the trap of desires but from a mans point of view they will hold you back. I figure this is the reason why Dakini's (female gods) as well as certain female Buddha's appear with a wrathful face. I suspect the wrathful face has many meanings but the main two, as I see it, are firstly a warning to men and secondly the fierce nature of one who has overcome all obstacles to attain enlightenment.

 

Other hints are the skull she holds in her left hand (feminine aspect) said to contain her menstrual blood but also the liquefied brains of men! Semen is very similar to cerebral spinal fluid. The skulls she wares further signify her triumph over death and maya but again also hint at the female being a bringer of death to men by taking their semen. She holds a Kartika in her right hand (masculine aspect) which again signifies her victory over death but also has many other esoteric meanings only available to an initiate.

 

[Vajrasattva]

Well I didn't know that he had slept with students (if it's true) and I never thought K was enlightened but he is pretty good at pointing. I think in some cases it's the students that sleep with the masters and not the other way round. I mean if you're a grown man, of what ever age, and a beautiful girl/women throws herself at you, well! I do find it ironic that even the Buddha was accused of getting a girl pregnant although that's just a story so who knows.

 

A friend of mine once lived in the same house as K and told me he was an arrogant freak! But I'm not judging K I'm just someone who thought some of his pointing was pretty good.

 

My personal view of enlightenment is that women and the sexual desire that they arouse can be a major stumbling block for aspirants. I might further suggest that it's almost impossible for people in a sexual relationship to attain to enlightenment although this doesn't mean they can't attain to great wisdom. I'm not saying women are more or less involved in the trap of desires but from a mans point of view they will hold you back. I figure this is the reason why Dakini's (female gods) as well as certain female Buddha's appear with a wrathful face. I suspect the wrathful face has many meanings but the main two, as I see it, are firstly a warning to men and secondly the fierce nature of one who has overcome all obstacles to attain enlightenment.

 

Other hints are the skull she holds in her left hand (feminine aspect) said to contain her menstrual blood but also the liquefied brains of men! Semen is very similar to cerebral spinal fluid. The skulls she wares further signify her triumph over death and maya but again also hint at the female being a bringer of death to men by taking their semen. She holds a Kartika in her right hand (masculine aspect) which again signifies her victory over death but also has many other esoteric meanings only available to an initiate.

 

 

 

Do you have actual initiation into Dakini practices?

[Patrick Brown]

Do you have actual initiation into Dakini practices?

I think the actual initiation is more along the lines of 'self realisation' although I would suspect that the mind would at first need to realise the error of duality. Dakini initiation is essentially a female route although this is only apparent to the mind because of the error of duality. Buddha, Bodhisattva, Tara, Shiva and Dakini are all interchangeable and all lead to the same initiation/realisation. Problems often arise when the mind finds it difficult to drop it's past preconceptions instilling doubt which can cause chaos i.e. Psychosis. As for the actual teachings that nuns work with, well, I wouldn't know.

[Desert Eagle]

hey patrick, why did you randomly put that statue? I just noticed it's standing on a kid!

 

regarding John Chang, from what I understood from sean denty, he is a Chinese master from the mo pai/diamond path lineage (similar to da mo) who used to/is living in Indonesia and was/is a famous healer and also healed the Indonesian president. however he attracted worldwide attention when he appeared in the video clip from Ring of Fire, and Kostas Danaos from Greece (and others) sought him out for training and had that for some time but the attention was mounting so the master wanted to be away from that so the training discontinued. some time after that, David Verdesi from Italy who already was being paid by governments and universities to study the whole deal about Chinese qigong and was roaming china and SE asia at the time, sought out john chang and has been training with him ever since. however, last time I checked the price tag for a two week course was 5000$ and you may or may not catch a glimpse of john chang. and regarding the training, sean denty says that it is detrimental to health, I suppose because of its warrior/utilitarian nature, and at some critical advancement stage (level 3 to 4) you have to cut some cords around the dan tien so it can connect with the lower dan tien which creates a strong current similar to lightning which has killed 60% of people attempting to reach that level. Now kostas has incomplete training and made some books that were not satisfactory and he got ill later. the 5k tag does not include the flight costs nor the time and dedication you need to achieve a good practice which takes long.

 

that is what I gathered from this forum, please correct me if i'm wrong.

Edited July 26, 2008 by Desert Eagle