Bringing together the tuth of tradition and religion

[Ascalon]

Hello everyone. I've been into spirituality for a number of years, and don't particularly subscribe to any one religion or tradition. I'm a seeker of knowledge and truth, and thus I see that all religions and traditions have some part of the larger true picture. In fact, it was really my interest in the martial arts and discovery of the Chinese internal/Taoist arts that really started my journey.

 

I'm wondering if anyone here has also experienced different backgrounds, and can perhaps detail some of the core similarities between Taoism and other different traditions like Yogic, Buddhist, etc. I'm particularly interested to hear if anyone has studied Kabbalahism.

 

I've recently started studying kabbalah (much more fundamental and accurate than what Madonna is involved with I'm sure/hope) myself. I've found the fundamental belief that everything is based on a will to receive for pleasure, and that God (not personified, but as in the totality of reality, and/or the highest order of conciousness ) is based upon altruism, unconditional giving/bestowal. Not sure if that fits with Taoism in any way. They also mention the need to develop a spiritual sense beyond the physical senses, which is what shall allow one to fulfill their purpose of manifesting their potential to be more like God (raise to a higher level of conciousness, knowledge of and connection to creation, and ability to adopt the nature of altruism). Some Kabbalists will tell you that meditation is not part of their tradition, and that meditation may even be counterproductive for trying to reduce suppress the ego in a way. I certainly don't agree with that view, for the spiritual sense they speak of must of course be developed. Meditation and taoist practices are the perfect way to develop such a spiritual sense.

 

Kabbalists also recognize that what we experience as reality is a creation of the ego, the individual sense of self built upon the filters of the mind and physical senses which PERCEIVE only the smallest portion of what exists in creation/reality/God, thus giving us the perception that we are separate from everything else that exists. You will find a similar such philosophy in a great many places these days, even into quantum physics and typical western philosophy. Basically we have our physical senses with our physical body, through which reality is filtered to create our own inner reality/perception of the world. Kabbalists say one needs to develop a 6th sense of sorts that allows one to perceive reality beyond those physical senses. I think quite obviously, that's where it begins to join Yogic, Buddhist, and Taoist traditions.

 

I think perhaps there is a great connection with the Hindu Yogic tradition. As I understand it, they believe in 7 chakras, for the most part corresponding to specific areas within the body. The of course you have the taoist traditions that go closer to physical with their chi pathways, then acupuncture meridians and the physical nervous system. The 7 chakras seem to reside on a more psychic level for their vague connection to physical form/locations (and btw, I know the chakra system seemingly overlaps with the 3 tantiens in some Taoist traditions) and their correspondence to different forms/perceptions of conciousness, such as emotions, love/empathy, or knowledge/knowing. The 7 chakra points seem to take elements of what exists on a conciousness level, and divides them into different parts. Likewise, many traditions/religions have the belief that reality is conciousness based in it's highest level, and what we see in the physical world is likely a manifestation of elements of conciousness into physical form. Kabbalists would say that what we see in the physical is a mere effect of causes that originate on a higher conciousness/spiritual level.

 

What I'm trying to get at is that maybe there are different levels to be looked at. Something like the 7 chakras may be a base level of spiritual senses/filters of reality. That would be very similar to how our 5 physical senses filter other aspects of physical reality. Our ability to mentally/spiritually perceive reality may hinge upon the 7 chakras that function almost like 7 senses in themselves. What could be said is that reality (assuming the nature of reality is more like a non physical conciousness) is comprised of what those 7 chakras/senses represent (and above chakras, there may be even greater aspects of reality to be perceived by something higher than chakras). Those 7 aspects are divided by the ego to form of individuality, and filtered through 7 senses/filters for those aspects of reality. The opening up and development of those senses/chakras allows one to perceive more of reality and increase what can flow through those filters of reality.

 

So, those aspects of reality manifest into 7 chakras, which manifest downward into more etheric forms of energy, chi, and similar such systems. And from that manifests the physical form, nerves and everything. The physical senses themselves, as part of our physical body, may be manifestations of the higher spiritual senses in a way. Simply, the physical body and its senses further filter and diminish the reality we can experience beyond what is filtered through the chakras. Let me say it this way-

 

-Beyond the ear and the brain's interpretation of what it receives is a world of many vibrations the knows no sound.

-Beyond what the fingers can touch and feel there exists a vast number of aspects that cannot be felt. I can feel the smoothness of glass, but I cannot feel the fine particles themselves that form the glass, I cannot feel the minute size, movements, and vibrations of the atoms within the particles, and I cannot feel the the electrons and the nuclei of the atoms.

 

In other words, even just with our knowledge of the physical world, we know there is a vastness that cannot be sensed by us and become part of our reality, because our reality is only built upon what we can actually receive through our senses.

 

-Beyond the love and emotion I feel for one person there is a vastness of love and empathy that exists for all people and things which I cannot percieve.

-Beyond the knowledge and direct feeling of energy around me in my aura coursing through the boundaries of my body, there is an entire world of similar and grander energies which I cannot perceive.

 

And that's the best i could do to give example of how our perceptions of the spiritual/conciousness/energy are also limited.

 

But I believe that the whole idea of developing a higher level of conciousness at the beginning hinges on perceiving beyond the physical senses, becoming aware of all things beyond that such as your energy networks and life force energy/chi, then further up/outwards into even more metaphysical aspects of conciousness that further leave their correspondence to anything physical because they exist beyond any physical reality and preclude it.

 

Sound anything like Taoism?

[Gerard]

I agree 100% with what you are saying, especially with the common ground they all have: observance of strict morality. Gautama Buddha simplified them in a very effective and simple system:

 

http://www.thebigview.com/buddhism/eightfoldpath.html

 

The rest will naturally come.

 

However is easy to lose morality especially when siddhis are attained, the in that exact moment "Mara" will sweep you away from the final goal:

 

 

[Ben D]

[Sunya]

check out Ken Wilber, he fused East and West quite well into an 'Integral' approach that is digestible for the Western rational mind. I loved studying eastern philosophy but it was the dogma of the traditions that held me from pursuing any specific paths.

 

i agree with you though, there is an Outer ring of tradition/ritual/dogmatic beliefs that are different in each path. but the inner mystical core is the same. the difference lies in cultural interpretation of non-dual reality using language, a dualistic barrier. many get caught up on the actual finger pointing to the moon instead of the moon itself, which is mysticism.

 

there comes a point though where you gotta give up all the beliefs, concepts, and intellectual 'knowing'. put the mind aside to truly experience that which is beyond mind. this is why all traditions have a form of meditation/contemplation/inquiry that is meant to stop the mind and go deeper

 

 

 

Since conceptual thinking of and about the oneness actually keeps the ego mind separated from the Oneness, for union to occur, the ego mind must cease it's activities,...dhyana.

 

The price of immortality is mortality, one can not serve two masters, the ego must be disappear for enlightenment to be.

 

Indeed i agree entirely

 

though I think ego must be clarified, I think that it never truly disappears. only attaching to it does. ego is necessary to live, socialize, and be in this dualistic realm we are in. i think of ego as a lower self that is trained on the spiritual path to surrender and make room for the higher divine self to shine and be

Edited July 28, 2008 by mikaelz

[Suzhou]

I follow the same path as you, friend, in that I do not yet belong to any particular path. I am too much in conflict with dogmatic thinking - that is, the acceptance of something as True without any reason Why - to accept any existing church, school, or temple.

 

However, I do perceive the same as you do - that there is an undercurrent of similarity running through all religions. Every single one emphasizes that there is something greater than Self that cannot be perceived through the five "normal" senses. Christianity calls it God. Wicca calls it Goddess and God. Daoism calls it Dao. Star Wars calls it the Force. =P

 

Similarly, each religion provides a way to expand beyond the normal sufferings and feelings of terrestrial senses to open Self to that extraordinary Greatness - whether meditation, or prayer, or even "being in the zone" in sports and athletics.

 

The very existence of things that we cannot perceive - for example, a person ten miles away, or the quarks at the center of an atom - says that we cannot perceive everything with our normal senses. What spiritual paths try to do is provide a way to know the unknowable, and in that, all religions are the same.

[doc benway]

[Ben D]

I copied this entire post because it is so well stated.

Thank you Ben.

 

Thank you Steve.

[Desert Eagle]

Edited August 3, 2008 by Desert Eagle