Is The Official History of Kunlun's Origin Bogus?

[Cameron]

In the book it says the bliss practice originates from Kunlun Shan. It doesn't specifically say Max lived there. I was under the impression that Max had spent time there also but I think it may be more a mix up in language. I had heard several times that Max was one of four teachers given permission to "leave the temple" to teach. I think the original way it was explained was every 100 years 4 teachers are allowed to leave the temple and teach worldwide(I remember Max saying this somewhere). But I could see how this might be more a metaphor for people who had learned the practice being permitted to teach? Maybe Sifu Jenny or another of Max's teachers had given him and several others permission to teach Kunlun publically and this is what that means.

 

After I met Max and learned the practice it's not a big deal either way, but could see how some of the story about Kunlun could be confusing as it clearly states the practice is from Kunlun Shan in the book.

 

That said I don't think Chris or Max are intentionally decieving people and am sure it's more a mix up of language or definitions. Max has a very unique way of communicating that I could see making someone really caught up in being scholorly unhappy. I look at alot of the things he says more along the lines of zen parables to stop the mental concepts. When you meet him in person it makes more sense. The "coyote" aspect of his character.

[Mantra68]

Drew, you are hardly clever or interesting.

 

Really man, lame effort.

 

Maybe we'll rename our school "Hemple".

 

Truthfully, it is Max's school and he can call it whatever he wants.

 

Now ask something relevant to cultivation or move on.

[Ryan T.]

Drew, you are hardly clever or interesting.

 

Really man, lame effort.

 

Maybe we'll rename our school "Hemple".

 

Truthfully, it is Max's school and he can call it whatever he wants.

 

Now ask something relevant to cultivation or move on.

 

Has the vast majority of this thread been relevant to cultivation? I think not.

 

Such harshness I see in these threads. Considering what we are talking about do we really need to all get so belligerent. We can agree to disagree, yes? Nothing wrong with a little sarcasm and snottiness is there?

[mgd]

Edited November 10, 2008 by mgd

[xenolith]

[Patrick Brown]

"The books or the music in which we thought the beauty was located will betray us if we trust them; it was not IN them, it only came THROUGH them, and what came through them was longing. These things-the beauty, the memory of our own past- are good images of what we really desire; but if they are mistaken for the thing itself they turn into dumb idols, breaking the hearts of their worshippers. For they are not the thing itself; they are only the scent of a flower we have not found, the echo of a tune which we have not heard, news from a country we have not visited."

~C S Lewis~

[mgd]

Edited November 10, 2008 by mgd

[三江源]

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Edited July 23, 2014 by cat

[voidisyinyang]

OK so Max never studied in the Kunlun mtns and he teaches Kunlun. I realize it's no big deal but I appreciate the clarification since the name of the practice he teaches implies he was in the Kunlun mtns.

 

I'd like to take this moment to personally thank Chris for being so thoughtful in helping me out with any possible discretions I may have had regarding my inquiries about the Kunlun practice.

[Satyalok]

me too satyalok. I guess you might very well not come back to this thread...Yoda, shall we pm him? Or have you done that already?!

 

Anyway.... pfffffffft, really, to all of those who pick apart a teacher and what he brings, in a disrespecting way, when your fellow bums are sharing their own real life experience of him and what he teaches with you.

 

Hi cat! I did PM Yoda.

 

I've posted before here about kundalini mahayoga/siddhayoga. The divine consciousness is awakened through shaktipat (just the term we use), which is literally the descent of shakti/power from the master to disciple. This awakens kundalini, but in a very safe manner.

 

Following this impressions of karma/samskara are translated into "kriyas"..or automatic yoga. This can be physical (spinal twists, asana, mudras, jumping, pranayama breathing, you name it) or mental (which could run the gamut from thoughts to spiritual experiences)...also laughing/crying....really alot of what has been noted to happen with Kunlun. I think they both work on the basis of collected impressions..or even blockages of energy. We view the divine as the "doer", so there is no accumulation of karma in the process. Other practices done with "I" as the "doer", collect some karma..even if it's very good or "Sattvic". Anyhow, that's the party line, works for me.

 

Cheers,

Satyalok

[三江源]

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Edited July 23, 2014 by cat

[Sunya]

Hi cat! I did PM Yoda.

 

I've posted before here about kundalini mahayoga/siddhayoga. The divine consciousness is awakened through shaktipat (just the term we use), which is literally the descent of shakti/power from the master to disciple. This awakens kundalini, but in a very safe manner.

 

Following this impressions of karma/samskara are translated into "kriyas"..or automatic yoga. This can be physical (spinal twists, asana, mudras, jumping, pranayama breathing, you name it) or mental (which could run the gamut from thoughts to spiritual experiences)...also laughing/crying....really alot of what has been noted to happen with Kunlun. I think they both work on the basis of collected impressions..or even blockages of energy. We view the divine as the "doer", so there is no accumulation of karma in the process. Other practices done with "I" as the "doer", collect some karma..even if it's very good or "Sattvic". Anyhow, that's the party line, works for me.

 

Cheers,

Satyalok

 

Namaste Satyalok

 

Yogani of Advanced Yoga Practices and Chrism of Kundalini Awakening Systems both were asked about Kunlun and both said that it is kundalini, obviously. what else can it be? there is only one evolutionary divine force in this world lol.

 

many months ago I posted about this. i think its time we put aside the words and phrases and realized all practices lead to the same goal, all deal with the same forces.

 

the Taoists knew about kundalini and have methods that have made the process much smoother. thank you Taoists! keeping the tongue on the palate for example, though i don't know if thats part of Kunlun system.

 

the spontaneous movements and bliss is a dead giveaway that kundalini is involved

[xenolith]

Edited July 31, 2008 by xenolith

[mjjbecker]

Gas indeed. This is very well. My concern is founded in the notion of seeking teachers. Based on my experience the process of living Life delivers teachings and teachers in accordance with one's need to learn their lessons. The wise will detect from these experiences that which they need to learn through their wisdom and seek to rectify these unawarenesses. Perhaps it is simply the means of rectifying said that concerns me. I think one should take care of that them self...because the alternative, a teacher, is an aid to a spiritual seeker in the way that a wheelchair is an aid to a cripple...it assists the cripple to move while placing the notion upon the cripple that without it's assistance he/she would not be able to move while the reality is that without the wheelchair he/she could walk...if he/she taught their self to do so. Get up and walk I say.

 

If so crippled so as to need assistance then by all means seek it out. But next seek to rid yourself of it.

 

I will mention in passing the self-mummified Tibetan and Chinese monks who truly understood the unity of the self and the Tao (i.e. no teacher required for knowledge of self and the Tao)...teacher teach thy self. I say.

 

 

If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants.

 

Isaac Newton

 

The progress of mankind has been through the sharing of knowledge and insight-wisdom. That does not negate the reality that a level of personal understanding must be gained from experience, but the benefit of having guidance and a method to follow is clear.

 

Why should spiritual teachings and guidance be different to all the other knowledge and wisdom gained over the millennia?

 

If the monks were purely self taught they would never have been monks in the first place. Monks have teachers and follow teachings. That does not say they did not have personal insight, but this came after instruction from teachers within a codified tradition. In other words, they did a Newton.

 

As I've said many times, to each their own. Do what works for you, but do not say others are wrong to do what works for them. Everyone has their own life to lead.

 

Best,

 

Mike

[三江源]

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Edited April 19, 2015 by 三江源

[Patrick Brown]

It also has to be admitted: the trouble with autodidacts is that they didact themselves right up their own arses sometimes.

Whereas I completely agree I do also believe that sometimes it's better to be up your own rather than someone else's!

Edited July 31, 2008 by Patrick Brown

[mjjbecker]

Whereas I completely agree I do also believe that sometimes it's better to be up your own rather than someone else's!

 

Surely it is simply best not to be up anyone's arse-unless you are consenting adults.

[Patrick Brown]

Surely it is simply best not to be up anyone's arse-unless you are consenting adults.

[xenolith]

Quite odd that persons on a Taoist website would think that all that was necessary for spiritual advancement was not contained within the experience of the self.

[mjjbecker]

Quite odd that persons on a Taoist website would think that all that was necessary for spiritual advancement was not contained within the experience of the self.

 

Not nearly as odd as someone thinking they have all the answers.

Edited July 31, 2008 by mjjbecker

[freeform]

the reality is that without the wheelchair he/she could walk...if he/she taught their self to do so. Get up and walk I say.

 

That sounds a lot like something a teacher might say, Xeno...

[Aetherous]

Xeno is like a person in a wheelchair who doesn't know they are in a wheelchair.

[xenolith]

When personal attacks present thought has occurred. How unfortunate (for the spirit of the accuser) that the thoughts are personal attacks.

 

freeform, yours alone of the recent ones may be perceived to be a constructive comment...many things may be taught by many teachers, but about you is taught best by you.

[mjjbecker]

When personal attacks present thought has occurred. How unfortunate (for the spirit of the accuser) that the thoughts are personal attacks.

 

freeform, yours alone of the recent ones may be perceived to be a constructive comment...many things may be taught by many teachers, but about you is taught best by you.

 

When you look down your nose at people you can expect a snotty response. Pun intended.

 

Insults? You are taking yourself far more seriously than anyone else is.

[Patrick Brown]

I thought everything was all love and bliss so how did we get here?

 

Lets all just chill.

 

Because I'm not sure if any of you know what I know but maybe I don't know anything and maybe none of you know anything but we're all trying to understand love and bliss aren't we? No we're all trying to experience it.

 

Lets all kiss and move on up.

Edited August 1, 2008 by Patrick Brown