Is The Official History of Kunlun's Origin Bogus?

[Spirit Ape]

Thanks Cameron

[Sahaj Nath]

 

Hundun,

 

What you wrote is interesting. Are you suggesting that Max's followers intentionally made Kunlun appear to be bogus? Perhaps to screen out people with well-developed reasoning skills?

 

nope. i'm not saying that at all. not sure how you got that from my post. what i'm saying is that *I* needed to learn the lesson that i learned from it, and it doesn't matter whether or not the lesson was intended by anyone else. we put too much emphasis on the messenger, but it's the *message* that matters, and it is *WE* who must be fit to receive it. even a nonsensical phrase graffitied on the wall can be a profound teacher, if you're able to receive it. and max is certainly more than that.

 

 

...Is Dharma and moral of no real implication to cultivation? Or is is it that it does not matter when the objective of the technique is not really "spiritual" or aimed at serious cultivation and something to do with "enlightenment" [whatever that means].

 

Something like a Yogasana or Pilates would work just fine if learnt right, irrespective of who it got from. But transmission [i assume that would be some kind of Diksha or Sahktipata] inherently involves energy exchange, even if it is channeled. Now, if the one who transmits has some serious credibility issues, energy from such a person would transmit mala [dirt or impurity] instead of actually destroying it. It is yet another theory that a person with some serious malas can never real transmit Shakti but can indeed do Prana which causes a lot of issues to the receiver. Masters warn about receiving mantras from such Gurus which angers the Yoginis of that mantra stream.

 

I am just trying to think loud and understand if technique should be separated from the sources: intermediate and original, their influence on the way the technique is transmitted etc. and how Dharma or morality fits in here.

 

i hope this doesn't come across as negative because that's not my intent at all. but i think what you're expressing here is the short-sightedness of some of our belief structures. a trickster-type, who is fully aware and wholly accepting of their want to play games with people's heads and even take advantage a little bit, can still transmit a pure vibration that is unencumbered by fear, or malice, or pride, or lust, or any of those things, what's more, NONE of those so-called "negative" traits necessarily prevent a life-changing transmission. even car wrecks can rattle people into greater awareness. in fact, they DO! and quite often! this is good news i think, because it means, again, that there are no gatekeepers to awakening.

 

 

not even the saints were saints, but they could still be god-sends in the lives of others.

 

 

but ultimately, i think the universe is a big place, and our moral quibbles don't even show up on the radar. i would go so far as to say that the very reason why morality and righteous living is made so important from day 1 is to bind the ego to service because Big Mind doesn't care one way or another. the killer and the killed are one and the same. so if you didn't learn to cherish morality prior to enlightenment, it's not likely that you'll give a shit afterward.

 

anywho,

 

that's my take on it.

 

FWIW

[Spectrum]

At thE VERY LeAST you'll HALVE something to LOOK FORWARD to:

 

Edited September 3, 2008 by Spectrum

[SiliconValley]

a trickster-type, who is fully aware and wholly accepting of their want to play games with people's heads and even take advantage a little bit, can still transmit a pure vibration that is unencumbered by fear, or malice, or pride, or lust, or any of those things, what's more, NONE of those so-called "negative" traits necessarily prevent a life-changing transmission.

FWIW

 

Sounds....hmmmm.... better!!!

 

How little is little?

[Sahaj Nath]

Sounds....hmmmm.... better!!!

 

How little is little?

 

 

fair question.

 

how about,

 

'not enough to start a religious cult.'

 

which seems like something he could totally do if he wanted to. some people feel a need to cling to him, but to his credit, he doesn't demand that they cling. there's an argument to be made that he takes advantage of his position of authority, but only playfully if at all. i think the lion's share of the fault is in the seekers who want a messiah.

[SiliconValley]

i think the lion's share of the fault is in the seekers who want a messiah.

 

 

Yeah...have to give you for for this one! Totally agree

[Mantra68]

Yeah, we could easily become a cult and sell a bunch of crap to make money, but we don't. We just don't have the interest. No t-shirts, no hats and we don't even peddle our own books at the seminars anymore. Just teaching. He is even limiting his classes to 70 people so that he give people the personal attention they need.

 

Max has said from the beginning that he doesn't want followers. He wants to do what he agreed to do for his teachers and nothing more. He only wants to keep the art from dying.

 

So, with him you get the highest teachings from Maoshan, Kunlun and Wudang + others minus the bullshit. You don't have to jump through any hoops or prove yourself for a ridiculously unnecessary amount of time before getting level one instruction.

 

He is the prodigy his teachers waited for. He is the teacher most of you wish for and he makes himself available for everyone. Nobody else at his level does this for any sustained period of time.

 

As far as bringing this stuff out and the concept of insecurity around that goes, I can only say that that was a misinterpretation. We weren't insecure, we just really cared about people getting the correct understanding of what we were trying to do. So I sit here and try to clarify again and again. It has been and continues to be worth it, because lives are dramatically changing and it is amazing to watch. To see people transmute the incredible amounts of pain they've carried their whole lives in only ONE HOUR and then to have them thank you with a gratitude that goes beyond anything you would ever feel you deserve. It is humbling.

 

Max is incredible. He is an absolute master of the internal arts and has the heart of a bodhisattva.

 

It doesn't get any better for us on the spiritual path, as far as I am concerned.

Edited September 3, 2008 by Mantra68

[Patrick Brown]

[Cameron]

I would like to clarify what I wrote about Kunlun a bit.

 

The reason I hesitate to reccommend it is twofold. First, from my experience the Kunlun/Max transmission becomes a permenent part of your being whether you practice or not. For example, a somewhat humurous thing that has happened several times over the past year is when I say I am going to give up the practice. I'll stop practicing for a few days only to have the Kunlun start to arise even stronger than before. It's almost as if it has a will of it's own.

 

So, that is not something I had encountered in any practice prior to Kunlun. I know people who awaken the Kundalini or whatever might have similar experiences(or not). But it's hard for me to say to people engage in a practice that works all the time whether you want it to or not.

 

The second point is I think I am still not quite on the "other side" of what the practice accomplishes. I think someone like Chris is probably speaking from authority because he has completed or atleast gotten far enough into the process to see it has been a "good" thing for him. I am not there yet. I am definetly in some strong energetic process but since I am still in the beginning of it can't say "it's good". I have a joyful feeling arise at times but since I also often feel unablanced when I do the practice alot I can't very well reccommend it as the last thing I want is for other's to experience being unbalanced from the practice.

 

That said, I am very hopeful the practice goes in a positive direction for me and other's. Since so many people on Taobums have taken Max's workshop now I am happy we get to hear a wide spectrum of feedback. Max himself doesn't really go into details or what is going on with individual pracititioners. He seems to teach the practice and the transmission and want people to have there own experience.

 

Chris has said some interesting things about the practice but alot of it seems like very advanced stuff. I would like to hear more feedback here and on the Kunlun forum from beginners if possible.

 

So, I think for me and probably other's it's not that I don't want to really get behind Kunlun 100%. It's that I really trully DON"T KNOW what is going on with the practice.

 

What I think would be helpful from Max and the Kunlun crew is if they could put out a more in depth beginners Kunlun manual at some point explaining the do's and do not's of the practice. Not to get overly intellectual but just to give us more insight into the mystery of Kunlun.

 

Cam

[Smile]

He is even limiting his classes to 70 people so that he give people the personal attention they need.

Lol, that's pretty funny

[xenolith]

Lol, that's pretty funny

Laughing all the way to the bank...

 

Chris, word up holmes, some day you'll need to ditch your teacher in order to own your spiritual advancement...carpe diem dude.

 

Cam, hope for you. Glad of that.

[Mantra68]

Laughing all the way to the bank...

 

Chris, word up holmes, some day you'll need to ditch your teacher in order to own your spiritual advancement...carpe diem dude.

 

Cam, hope for you. Glad of that.

Xeno,

You little stinker.

 

You still don't have ANY idea what you are talking about, but you don't seem to care.

 

Amazing.

[Patrick Brown]

The reason I hesitate to reccommend it is twofold. First, from my experience the Kunlun/Max transmission becomes a permenent part of your being whether you practice or not. For example, a somewhat humurous thing that has happened several times over the past year is when I say I am going to give up the practice. I'll stop practicing for a few days only to have the Kunlun start to arise even stronger than before. It's almost as if it has a will of it's own.

Yes this sounds like some kinda opening up of Kundalini. I don't do Kunlun but my personal experiences, which are mystical in nature, suggest that once you're opened, you're opened for the rest of your life.

 

My experience from back in January still scares the shit out of me. For those that don't know I had over 24 hours of flaming swords and knives rushing through my body and it took me 3 weeks to recover. Now I'm not sure how common this is but a similar thing happened to J krishnamurti several times in his early life and strangely U G Krishnamurti (the anti guru) said he went through such an experience although some people think he's a bullshitter! Also some of the stories of the Buddha mention him riving around in agony before his death.

 

Now since my experience I only ever get the occasional flash from my dan tien and nothing else. I don't do any chi cultivation as I'm pretty sure my chi is pretty strong already. I could learn how to direct my chi but I see that as a form of witchcraft and I avoid such practices. Don't get me wrong as I am into self cultivation but not the energy kind.

 

It will be interesting to see if any of the peeps practising Kunlun run into any problems. In the event that any of you get the flaming swords I would advise fierceness. Probably the worse thing you could do is go to a hospital as they would probably just want to pump you full of drugs and cut you open. As for an overview of my experience it was like giving birth.

[Aetherous]

I've been thinking lately as well, that this does seem like kundalini. But kundalini is a loose term. I suppose the way that I'm meaning it here is: spiritual energy, or shakti. Not an upward firey movement of energy. So that being said, I think kunlun is a good way to awaken kundalini.

 

At least this is what I've been thinking lately...maybe it's not true.

[Patrick Brown]

I've been thinking lately as well, that this does seem like kundalini. But kundalini is a loose term. I suppose the way that I'm meaning it here is: spiritual energy, or shakti. Not an upward firey movement of energy. So that being said, I think kunlun is a good way to awaken kundalini.

 

At least this is what I've been thinking lately...maybe it's not true.

It does seem to be a fairly safe practice from what I've heard of it. My only concern is that it may trigger intense painful experiences for some. I drink a lot to keep my energy down, in fact I keep it right down. After a few months of not drinking a day seems like a week to me! Yes I'm trying to get out of that loop. Just that with the keys I've been given I seem to be able to regenerate (grow younger) which is way spooky. Another aspect of the keys is that not only do I grow younger I look more feminine. Drinking kinda puts me in limbo which I hate but I'm still getting used to certain things.

 

And yes I'm aware that pushing my energy down so far is probably dangerous but I am working on getting off the booze. The plan I'm trying to bring into action is directing the energy towards my music i.e. Something creative.

[wudangquan]

I don't have any vested interest in this discussion, and while I don't and probably won't practice Kunlun bliss, I hope that the dude is for real.

 

I've been struck by tire irons, baseball bats and beer bottles, but no lightning bolts . . . So who knows.

 

One thing I could do though is to ask around here about Max's teacher who is supposed to be a Wudang master.

 

If he was an initiate or trained with anyone living or dead that could be tracked down by Taoist/Chinese name, i would be willing to spend a few hours running around to try and substantiate that for the people.

 

But it's not really my business, and I am not even going to bother out of personal curiosity unless Max or the people close to him want me to, because it's irrelevant to me in the broad sense.

 

Admittedly a part of my is curious about whether his first teacher was a Wudang master in the same sense that it's a "Kunlun" practice . . . But again, it doesn't really matter either way . . ..

[Aetherous]

Patrick,

 

There are better ways of "keeping your energy down"!

[Patrick Brown]

Patrick,

 

There are better ways of "keeping your energy down"!

Yes I know but alcoholism runs in the family and even though I don't class my self as an alcoholic I drink way too much out of habit. I have major problems with self-esteem and self-confidence and have been pushed around most of my life. Don't worry no self pitty here as I quite like who I am but it's not easy. Things are slowly getting better as I get older.

[xenolith]

Xeno,

You little stinker.

 

You still don't have ANY idea what you are talking about, but you don't seem to care.

 

Amazing.

When compassion returns same credibility increases.

Edited September 5, 2008 by xenolith

[nils]

chris

I love to see/read how much u write in THIS forum

Edited September 10, 2008 by nils

[witch]

Xeno,

You little stinker.

 

You still don't have ANY idea what you are talking about, but you don't seem to care.

 

Amazing.

 

xeno is lonesome. He has CCO's and wants to converse with other people who have had CCO's and maybe give tips for their practice. Instead he is met with people bristling at him. I think, although I'm not sure, that he concentrates on the seventh chakra instead of the sixth so it is harder for him to see things that are obvious to other people here, like that Max is filled with power.

 

My two cents. He was the one who introduced me to this forum, I am grateful.

[Smile]

Xeno is fine. It would great, if we are nice to each other.

[Spirit Ape]

wudang,

 

Max's teacher of this nei kung is Master Jenny Wu Lamb but Max has taken it further and renamed it Kunlun adding many of his years experiences. I think he has made it better!

 

His Wudang master lives in Hawaaii!

 

spirit ape

[Mantra68]

wudang,

 

Max's teacher of this nei kung is Master Jenny Wu Lamb but Max has taken it further and renamed it Kunlun adding many of his years experiences. I think he has made it better!

 

His Wudang master lives in Hawaaii!

 

spirit ape

We would never say he made it "better" because the process is different for every person. Each teacher is different. Jenny is an excellent instructor but may teach in a different style than Max. More strict perhaps. Harder for the Western mentality.

 

Max has done what he was supposed to do by bringing the root practices of Kunlun (Spontaneous formless form) and the highest Maoshan method of Red Phoenix together to first open the energy and then control the energy. There is a third practice that helps amplify the energy, but that is not taught until people become certified teachers or have really earned Max's trust.

 

The first two give most people what they are looking for and are sufficient for achieving the rainbow/dragon body.

 

Max's job is to bridge the gap between the East and West to make these things accessible for the average joe.

 

Also, his Wudang teacher died in the late seventies.

[Spirit Ape]

Mantra,

 

How did he work out the formula to combine Red Phoenix, Golden flower to Jennys art and know or didnt know that it would create this Golden Dragon Body?

 

cheers

Spirit Ape