Help me understand more about the nature of Qi.

[:::]

On my own journey I have, at various times, asked others on the Path if they could explain whether different environments, mostly man made, effect the prevalence of Qi but have never really had a satisfactory answer.

 

My question is, if mankind's natural place might be said to be barefoot on the surface of the Earth, what effect in terms

of availability of surrounding Qi would be experienced by, for example, the crew of a submarine ? Would the substantial steel hull and volume of sea water above reduce, increase or have no effect on the Qi within the submarine ? Likewise, would the aluminum construction of a trailer home, or being in the basement of a steel framed skyscraper undermine one's qigong practice ?

 

I'm personally very fortunate in that I have a choice of nearby, and powerful, trees to stand under...... I'm asking this question to help me understand more about the nature of Qi. Wiser T-Bums please enlighten me. Thank you.

Edited July 30, 2008 by :::

[WhiteTiger]

I can't enlighten you but they say in caves or natural rocks where powerful practitioners teachers masters train in/on/around can give off the energy.

 

Sorry I know its not gunna be a satisfactory answer but when you learn about this I would love to learn what you have learned.

[:::]

I can't enlighten you but they say in caves or natural rocks where powerful practitioners teachers masters train in/on/around can give off the energy.

 

 

Thank you WhiteTiger, I hadn't heard of that before. We both await further interesting posts.

[The Way 1]

I have always understood Qi has being able to permeate all things and thus not be blocked by any man-made objects. I would be interested to learn what Qi masters feel about this. I have great faith that a Qi master can make the Qi flow freely in any environment, although a more natural environment sure does make the practice easier.

[mwight]

I have always understood Qi has being able to permeate all things and thus not be blocked by any man-made objects. I would be interested to learn what Qi masters feel about this. I have great faith that a Qi master can make the Qi flow freely in any environment, although a more natural environment sure does make the practice easier.

 

According to Kosta's books about J.C. He says that synthetic materials block the flow of chi, yet it can and does easily flow through metal.

[Sahaj Nath]

On my own journey I have, at various times, asked others on the Path if they could explain whether different environments, mostly man made, effect the prevalence of Qi but have never really had a satisfactory answer.

 

My question is, if mankind's natural place might be said to be barefoot on the surface of the Earth, what effect in terms

of availability of surrounding Qi would be experienced by, for example, the crew of a submarine ? Would the substantial steel hull and volume of sea water above reduce, increase or have no effect on the Qi within the submarine ? Likewise, would the aluminum construction of a trailer home, or being in the basement of a steel framed skyscraper undermine one's qigong practice ?

 

I'm personally very fortunate in that I have a choice of nearby, and powerful, trees to stand under...... I'm asking this question to help me understand more about the nature of Qi. Wiser T-Bums please enlighten me. Thank you.

 

 

your question assumes the possibility of objective observance, which IMO isn't possible.

 

why is this not a question that you can explore for yourself, for your own growth? the fact that you choose to practice under 'powerful' trees makes the question seem kind of silly. listen to yourself. know thyself. how do you feel when you're in an office building? how is that different from when you're in the park?

 

your question just really strikes me as cumbersome. i'd like to answer it, but i don't think i can, because the presence of qi is so subjective. qi doesn't just come from the outside world, so the observer's development and sensitivity HAS to be part of the equation. i can feel the presence of a student of mine who lives 2,000 miles away just by my intention. the distance and barriers are illusions.

 

AND YET,

 

they are illusions with consequences, and something as small and thin as a sheet of paper can obscure the energetic connection for some people.

 

so maybe there IS NO satisfactory answer to your question. i could spout some bullshit about how living things emanate life force and therefore dense concentrations of organic life will yield 'A' while insulation in a tube under salt water will yield 'B', but it would be bullshit. the observer HAS to count in the equation, because you too emanate life force, and you respond differently to different environments than i do.

 

the answer is for YOU to discover.

[:::]

your question assumes the possibility of objective observance, which IMO isn't possible.

 

why is this not a question that you can explore for yourself, for your own growth? the fact that you choose to practice under 'powerful' trees makes the question seem kind of silly. listen to yourself. know thyself. how do you feel when you're in an office building? how is that different from when you're in the park?

 

your question just really strikes me as cumbersome. i'd like to answer it, but i don't think i can, because the presence of qi is so subjective. qi doesn't just come from the outside world, so the observer's development and sensitivity HAS to be part of the equation. i can feel the presence of a student of mine who lives 2,000 miles away just by my intention. the distance and barriers are illusions.

 

AND YET,

 

they are illusions with consequences, and something as small and thin as a sheet of paper can obscure the energetic connection for some people.

 

so maybe there IS NO satisfactory answer to your question. i could spout some bullshit about how living things emanate life force and therefore dense concentrations of organic life will yield 'A' while insulation in a tube under salt water will yield 'B', but it would be bullshit. the observer HAS to count in the equation, because you too emanate life force, and you respond differently to different environments than i do.

 

the answer is for YOU to discover.

 

Hundun,

 

Thank you for taking the time to post such an interesting, and informed, reply bearing in mind that you consider my post to be silly, cumbersome and unanswerable.

 

I feel that as you have said "i'd like to answer it, but don't think i can", I should be especially grateful to you for spending so many words trying to do so. You seem to think my question was aimed directly at you and that you were obliged to answer it. Whenever I see a question on this, or any other forum, that I'd like to answer, but don't think I can, I tend, unlike you, not to attempt to answer.

 

I'm interested to learn that you believe that your being sensitive to one of your students who lives 2,000 miles away has anything to do with my original question unless, of course, you feel that by mentioning that you have students, (you could have just said a "friend"), makes you feel better qualified to air your views. At least your response to my question wasn't in anyway bullying, or patronizing, which was nice.

 

I've decided to take your well meaning advice to heart and have just applied to join the Navy as a submariner. I look forward to reporting my own very personal, individual and highly subjective experience of sensing Qi in a metal tube deep below the oceans waves on this forum at some later date.

 

Bye for now,

 

:::

[doc benway]

This is a common topic of discussion and I've put my ideas out there before so I apologize to those of you who've read similar posts from me (especially if you think I'm full of ...)

 

I find it interesting to see how people tend to consider Qi as something separate from themselves. We tend to conceptualize Qi as stuff that moves into or out of us via orifices and so forth. We talk about things transmitting and blocking Qi. Gaining Qi and losing Qi and storing Qi and so on. I don't buy that concept. We are not separate from what's around us. That is just an illusion created by our sensory organs. Even if Qi were some sort of stuff or energy, it would not be anything separate from us anyway, it would simply be part of our constitution.

 

I believe Qi is more an interaction, a process, not stuff, even in an energetic sense. Qi, in my view, may be more the interaction between our awareness and the fabric of our being, on a level that is foreign to our usual level of experience. I don't feel that Qi is something I can store or gain or lose. I don't think it's something separate from "me" or even any"thing" at all. It is process, not substance. My ability to become aware of or tuned into the experience of being is accentuated through certain practices. These practices are said to increase Qi but to me it's more a matter of refining and sensitizing the ability to perceive on a level that's not usually part of our daily lives.

 

The practices of meditation, yoga, taiji, sensory deprivation, neigong, and so forth, exercise and develop our abilities to sense a different facet of being (a different "wavelength" some might say). I think these practices develop a part of the brain that is usually ignored because it's overshadowed by the more mundane funcitons of sight, hearing, smell, taste, and tactile sensation that keep us alive and well. These other senses need to become very quiet before the more subtle sense can be experienced and developed. This experience of our lives, selves, and environment on a different level as sensed through the "Qi antenna" to use a silly but useful image is more akin to my experience of Qi.

 

This idea goes against the grain of how we normally conceptualize and discuss Qi but it's where my head is at currently as a consequence of Dao meditation, Neigong, and Taijiquan practice, and so I thought I'd put it out there FWIW....

[Sahaj Nath]

Hundun,

 

Thank you for taking the time to post such an interesting, and informed, reply bearing in mind that you consider my post to be silly, cumbersome and unanswerable.

 

I feel that as you have said "i'd like to answer it, but don't think i can", I should be especially grateful to you for spending so many words trying to do so. You seem to think my question was aimed directly at you and that you were obliged to answer it. Whenever I see a question on this, or any other forum, that I'd like to answer, but don't think I can, I tend, unlike you, not to attempt to answer.

 

I'm interested to learn that you believe that your being sensitive to one of your students who lives 2,000 miles away has anything to do with my original question unless, of course, you feel that by mentioning that you have students, (you could have just said a "friend"), makes you feel better qualified to air your views. At least your response to my question wasn't in anyway bullying, or patronizing, which was nice.

 

I've decided to take your well meaning advice to heart and have just applied to join the Navy as a submariner. I look forward to reporting my own very personal, individual and highly subjective experience of sensing Qi in a metal tube deep below the oceans waves on this forum at some later date.

 

Bye for now,

 

:::

 

 

it was not my intention to offend you. i think what i shared is worth considering. it's the way i understand relationship to life force.

 

it's also not a secret around here that i'm a teacher; i just thought it was a good and real example of distance and barriers being an illusion. that is what i stated, after all.

 

 

i'll just leave your threads alone from now on. my bad.

 

take care.

 

[Prince...]

 

I've decided to take your well meaning advice to heart and have just applied to join the Navy as a submariner. I look forward to reporting my own very personal, individual and highly subjective experience of sensing Qi in a metal tube deep below the oceans waves on this forum at some later date.

 

 

I hope you're not gonna be hotracking... you're gonna feel a lot more than Qi!

[WhiteTiger]

I can't enlighten you but they say in caves or natural rocks where powerful practitioners teachers masters train in/on/around can give off the energy.

 

Sorry I know its not gunna be a satisfactory answer but when you learn about this I would love to learn what you have learned.

 

Oh well... After reading other peoples posts i think i did a poor job at explaining some proper understandings of Qi.

 

Qi means Energy... techniqually everything and anything has energy in it period.

 

In modern science says that theres only potential energy and kinetic. I'm not sure if there is such thing as static energy but...

 

the theory of Qi or energy is that everything has a certain amount of energy... thus thought as static.

 

There are many different types of energy or Qi... which my last post touched upon.

 

 

xuesheng I like what you said and agree on many different levels.

 

Yet I feel there is a few things you touched upon that i yet have to realize through experience as you talk about. Its clear to me (not that it was in question before) that you are much more experienced than I. I had before looked up to you as i still do but now I find myself having more new found respect for you. I enjoy and look forward to hearing more posts from you in the future.

[JackSquat]

[mjjbecker]

According to Kosta's books about J.C. He says that synthetic materials block the flow of chi, yet it can and does easily flow through metal.

 

The books are interesting but they are no 'bible' by any means. I am a little worried you seem to be relying on them for detail that isn't there.

 

There is a LOT that isn't in the books. That fact is VERY significant. The books were put out to provide information that such abilities as those John Chang has are real. That is it. Most people don't know that 'Inner Traditions' changed the title of the second book. The original title was, 'The Forgotten Side of Ourselves'. The publishers, with their blurb implying some kind of instruction, changed the title to, 'Neikung'. This I know. I read the manuscript before it was published. I discussed it with Kostas at the time.

 

I really do suggest you go and get a teacher and stop trying to take instruction from the books. You will NEVER gain any insight into the Mo Pai neigong method from them. The information simply isn't in the books.

 

The best thing you can do is move on and forget about it. It's over.

 

Best,

 

Mike

[Patrick Brown]

[三江源]

[:::]

May I say how touched I am that people from around the world should find the time leave these posts for me. Like many others, I'm trying to make sense of profound experiences with Qi in the absence of a good teacher and your comments have given me much to reflect on. I feel you've changed my understanding in a way that will enable me to develop further. Your kindness is very much appreciated. Thank you.

 

I can't imagine I shall be starting many other new threads, so much of interest to me has already been posted elsewhere on here but your response has assured me that, if I do, someone will care enough to answer. This forum is a wonderful resource for someone like me.

[guangping]

If you can breathe, you are working with chi.

 

Chi is an abstract concept given to the different energetic principles involving the body.

[daoian]

I can't enlighten you but they say in caves or natural rocks where powerful practitioners teachers masters train in/on/around can give off the energy.

 

The reason why all the worlds temples are in high mountains and why meditation in caves offers the most powerful Cham-Sun is the same reason Bai Fei Tang must be water of water of water of water of water..

 

Earth is Yin. It recieves. It pulls. "Gravity" It is passive. Heaven is yang. it is active - "Heavenly Massless Radiation". Then, the most yin place on earth must be where there is most earth... on top of a rocky mountain (more mass, more gravitational pull - YIN). Then then most yin powerful mountain range must be far east since the earth rotates eastward... centripetal force says that korea/tibet must have the most yin chi ... it is the head of the hammer that is swinging 24 hours a day - centripetal force based increase in yin chi.

 

Now... its obvious as to why a cave is yin chi. isnt it?

 

So... yin (east) of yin (earth) of yin (mountain) of yin (cave) then you inhale as long as you can... makes the 5th yin.

 

The law of yin yang says... yang meets ying. so if you are meditating in Mt. Jin Ri in a cave facing east, then you will open up yang of yang of yang of yang of yang chi.

 

Hence... it is said, "Earth, Man, Heaven" Your spine creates a lighting rod connecting heavenly yang chi with earthly yin chi. Then, before you let all this energy go.. you can play with it. and create extraordinary phenomena.

Edited August 19, 2008 by daoian

[autopoetic]

The reason why all the worlds temples are in high mountains and why meditation in caves offers the most powerful Cham-Sun is the same reason Bai Fei Tang must be water of water of water of water of water..

 

Earth is Yin. It recieves. It pulls. "Gravity" It is passive. Heaven is yang. it is active - "Heavenly Massless Radiation". Then, the most yin place on earth must be where there is most earth... on top of a rocky mountain (more mass, more gravitational pull - YIN). Then then most yin powerful mountain range must be far east since the earth rotates eastward... centripetal force says that korea/tibet must have the most yin chi ... it is the head of the hammer that is swinging 24 hours a day - centripetal force based increase in yin chi.

 

I hate to be too literal, but... gravity is actually slightly less on top of a mountain than on ground level:

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/phy00/phy00348.htm

 

Also, since our dissection of the earth into east/west is somewhat arbitrary, there is no physical difference in centripetal force between korea/tibet and any other part of the world.

 

Sorry, I know you're talking about real forces in the world, and I don't doubt that wise people of the ages have found the powerful places. It just bugs me when people misuse science.

[Jakara]

 

I hate to be too literal, but... gravity is actually slightly less on top of a mountain than on ground level:

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/phy00/phy00348.htm

 

Also, since our dissection of the earth into east/west is somewhat arbitrary, there is no physical difference in centripetal force between korea/tibet and any other part of the world.

 

Sorry, I know you're talking about real forces in the world, and I don't doubt that wise people of the ages have found the powerful places. It just bugs me when people misuse science.

 

Agreed.

 

Yang Chi is supposedly from heaven (the sky) and Yin chi the Earth. Therefore the top of a mountain would be the best place to sit; its the highest in the sky but also has a lot of Earth beneath. Caves are a good form of shelter, but they are usually only used if on a mountain. This would suggest your height above sea level being the prime factor.

[styrofoamdog]

There are so many dubious sources out there, that the only recommendation I have is to find out for yourself through meditation. The subject of Qi, what it is, how it interacts with the mind, body, and breathing is a huge subject. There are very few good authors and teachers out there that can teach you about the nature of Qi. Some people can teach you how to cultivate and circulate it in a particular way, but that's not the same as understanding the nature of Qi.

[daoian]

I hate to be too literal, but... gravity is actually slightly less on top of a mountain than on ground level:

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/phy00/phy00348.htm

 

Also, since our dissection of the earth into east/west is somewhat arbitrary, there is no physical difference in centripetal force between korea/tibet and any other part of the world.

 

Sorry, I know you're talking about real forces in the world, and I don't doubt that wise people of the ages have found the powerful places. It just bugs me when people misuse science.

 

Wow... someone who actually looks into things in detail!

 

ok... let me elaborate.

 

1. the mountain MUST be a dense solid base mountain. You have mountains in Japan that are not dense compared to mountains in tibet and korea. And you are incorrect... there is indeed more gravity on top of a mountain than in a valley.

 

Larry Krengel

=========================================================

Yes, any object with mass attracts any other object with mass by

gravitation. If you stand on a tall mountain, yes, the downward pull of

gravity will be greater than if you were in a valley.

 

2. The gravity i am looking for is vertical chong mai yin force. the more dense earth, the more yin. the more yin, the more yang. Yang is the chi of magic. It only comes from heaven.

 

Think: if you took a big scoop of Mt. Everest and then took the same size scoop of Half Dome, which scoop would weigh more? look at pictures of mountains in asia.

 

3. there is indeed a difference in the centripetal force. remember that south america fits nicely into africa and that japan fits nicely into the korean peninsula. At one point, all the land masses were one chunk. The underlying magma serves as a dense root system for all the tall mountains. think about it... if a mountain was sitting on lowdensity-soft earth, it would implode / collapse. Think iceberg.

 

Its important to note that the underlying root structure of these continents still have the same structure as before the continents divided. So... there is below the surface of the earth's crust, the effect of a rotating hammer with the head of the hammer located in tibet/korea.

 

But to your point... when i use the word gravity, it's just the most easily understood word for the yin pull of earth while it may not be technically ideal

Edited August 21, 2008 by daoian

[autopoetic]

Wow... someone who actually looks into things in detail!

 

ok... let me elaborate.

 

 

thanks for a thorough reply. I didn't know that mountains differed in density. I suppose it make sense!

 

I see you've selected the one reply amongst a dozen that sounds like it supports you position. But if you'll note, I didn't say the gravity is usually lower on a mountain than in a valley. I said it is higher at ground level. (yeah, I guess I do look into things in detail! ) Having a lot of earth above you will obviously act as an attraction upwards.

 

This makes for some interesting reading: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth%27s_gravity

 

They even have a nifty chart with measurements of the strength of gravity in various cities!

[Smile]

Gravity maps

[de_paradise]

Can you please explain how is the gravity, yin chi level, geographical location, relevent to simple meditators like me.