styrofoamdog Posted July 31, 2008 Frankly, everyone here disagrees on everything of this nature.... If you want clarification on this, I would really recommend Nan Huaijin's book Tao & Longevity, which answers the questions you have about circulation and how it relates to cultivation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vajrasattva Posted July 31, 2008 http://www.meditationexpert.com/meditation...meditations.htm I'm very new to all of this, so I'm glad to have found a forum to check things with. Ask him and Nan why everything in the Universe vibrates, spins, whirls, expands & contracts etc. You are the Micro of the Macro..... Extreme Yang eventually becomes Yin Extreme Yin eventually becomes Yang When Shakti is active Shiva is still. When Shiva is active Shakti is still. There is a time and place for both things in Cultivation. When Dr. Glenn Morris visited the monestaries in Japan of Zen monks he saw and witnessed that they DO teach certain things much like Taoist & Tibetan chi kung but not untill the student has "settled" himself in meditation for like 5+ years or so. The monks told him once they learn the actual "methods" it only takes 6 weeks or less! So if you have time to sit around and do nothing for 5+ to 12 years great! Sit and DO NOTHING..... You want real results then get to it and do things that will get you "there" with out spending 12 years sitting on your ass. All the masters I have ever met favored "Movement meditations" to non movement. To truly move outside you need to be still in side to truly be still outside you need to move inside. Peace, Santiago Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nomad Posted July 31, 2008 (edited) I don't care to develop 'supernatural' powers or anything - but even guys like John Chang don't do movement exercises - from my understanding, he just does still meditation. I'm not saying energy work has no effect, but maybe a large portion of the effect is brought about through supplemental meditation? Yes, I've read 'Tao & Longevity' so I know about the physiological functions of chi movements in meditation as per Master Nan. Edited July 31, 2008 by nomad Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sunya Posted July 31, 2008 nomad, you have a car and you need to get somewhere. do you play around under the hood trying to make it the fastest, safest, and more reliable car? or are you more concerned with the destination trusting that the car will be ok? thats really what it comes down to. some will say its a lot faster and safer to play around with the car, but many have merged with the Tao without any doing any conscious energy movement. why not a balance of both? i don't think theres anything wrong with doing energy work unless you are feeling ill effects. its a meditation in itself so supplementing with deep meditation is a good idea. key is not to get attached to the body and the phenomena that can occur Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
宁 Posted July 31, 2008 when you are not sure what to think about something... look outside your window, look in nature... see how nature does it... every living thing is in motion... the circle of life... stillness is important also. but having to choose between motion practice and stillness practice is like having to choose between only night and only day... it's absurd. we need both as much. go and tell bodri and nan that a little1 told them the original speck of the original truth. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gerard Posted July 31, 2008 Fire-Water, Short-Long path. Each to their own. I myself a double Yang being find the latter most suited to my practice, others benefit from the former. Eventually they both end up in the same destination. However Water is safer than Fire. Namo Amitabha Buddha. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjjbecker Posted July 31, 2008 but even guys like John Chang don't do movement exercises - from my understanding, he just does still meditation. Neigong and qigong methods use both moving and static techniques. What exactly John Chang does at his current level, I don't know. I DO know to get there, he used both moving and static techniques. There isn't any skipping this. Best, Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
autopoetic Posted July 31, 2008 In my new book, Meditation for Beautiful Skin, sex is one of the ways you can activate your chi to produce more beautiful skin so I have to go into these things along with proper sexual techniques. All I can say is that everything out there is based on misconceptions. After all that scorn for the materialism of meditating on one's own body, I find this throwaway line at the end pretty funny. Not only is he hawking a book, it's a book about how to make your skin prettier - with chi! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Prince... Posted July 31, 2008 After all that scorn for the materialism of meditating on one's own body, I find this throwaway line at the end pretty funny. Not only is he hawking a book, it's a book about how to make your skin prettier - with chi! I'm glad I wasn't the only one that raised an eyebrow when I read that! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taiji Bum Posted July 31, 2008 I agree with Bodhri. All you need is emptiness meditation and sexual retention and everything else will happen naturally (and I have beautiful skin too). But sitting still and not blowing your wad is not fun so..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vajrasattva Posted July 31, 2008 Neigong and qigong methods use both moving and static techniques. What exactly John Chang does at his current level, I don't know. I DO know to get there, he used both moving and static techniques. There isn't any skipping this. Best, Mike Exactly.... Dr. Morris did same thing Stillness & Motion training within meditation. My Ilmu Kebatinan gurus do the same thing. My Bon Lama also did the same. YOU NEED BOTH...... Peace Santiago Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
voidisyinyang Posted July 31, 2008 More important Master Nan, Huai-chin ALSO sits in full-lotus all day and night long (for more time than not). So... call that "empty" meditation if you want but full-lotus opens up what Gurdjieff called the Kundabuffer -- the small of the back and the main "organ" putting modern males into delusion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
findley Posted July 31, 2008 (edited) I like to think that a 'cultivate' energy with activity, and then 'digest' it with stillness. This is how I convinced myself to do both. ps- I don't like bodri, because he is insisting that 'active' meditation is completely false. Not that it is less efficient, not that it is a lesser 'path', but plainly BOGUS. So he loses all credibility as far as I am concerned. Edited July 31, 2008 by findley Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
styrofoamdog Posted July 31, 2008 I agree with Bodhri. All you need is emptiness meditation and sexual retention and everything else will happen naturally (and I have beautiful skin too). But sitting still and not blowing your wad is not fun so..... Agreed. I'm beginning to think that people confuse the causes with the results, and so they think they have to force Qi through different areas in specific ways to practice cultivation. I think everything unfolds naturally from emptiness meditation. Otherwise, did the Shakyamuni Buddha need to practice moving exercises? Did he move Qi around consciously to make progress? None of his teachings are about these things. What he does teach is emptiness, halting the conception of thoughts. In Daoism this is repeated over and over again as well. For example, the 250-year old Daoist immortal Li Ching Yuen said that the fundamental Daoist practice is to keep emptiness. More important Master Nan, Huai-chin ALSO sits in full-lotus all day and night long (for more time than not). So... call that "empty" meditation if you want but full-lotus opens up what Gurdjieff called the Kundabuffer -- the small of the back and the main "organ" putting modern males into delusion. If you are going to keep trying to use Nan Huaijin's reputation to lend credibility to your own views, then you could at least reference something from him stating that full lotus is essential. Nan Huaijin emphasizes emptying the mind of thoughts and discarding the skandha of conception. He doesn't teach that any form or posture is necessary, and introduces a variety of meditation postures for readers to pick from. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mantis Posted July 31, 2008 i also agree with darinhamel & styrofoamdog, however, a good portion of this community practices some type of "energy work" and i don't think is willing to stop. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rain Posted July 31, 2008 More important Master Nan, Huai-chin ALSO sits in full-lotus all day and night long (for more time than not). So... call that "empty" meditation if you want but full-lotus opens up what Gurdjieff called the Kundabuffer -- the small of the back and the main "organ" putting modern males into delusion. it seems like after nei gung and static gung and tai chi, dual cultivation and meditation, everything gets meditated and through a vast field af variation gets cooked down and minimized so that the grand master is practising but You hardly see it. I doubt that the future is eternal seated lotus. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taiji Bum Posted July 31, 2008 Exactly.... Dr. Morris did same thing Stillness & Motion training within meditation. My Ilmu Kebatinan gurus do the same thing. My Bon Lama also did the same. YOU NEED BOTH...... Peace Santiago What movement techniques or equivalents do you think the greater christian saints and mystics used? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackSquat Posted July 31, 2008 A few observations on the discussion at large: First, if your Qi is part or whole of who you are, woven into the fabric of your awareness, viewing it as a mechanism to be controlled and used should always prove unproductive. Second, the kundalini is an astoudingly powerful force. There are those who believe (myself included) that prematurely awakening it can be exceedingly dangerous to the mental and physical health of the individual, leading even to permanent derangement or death. This of course is not a rule, only a warning. Third, each of us has accumulated a different set of experiences over our many lifetimes that make different things appropriate for our immediate development; only your inner voice or a true master can help you find what is appropriate for YOU right NOW. Fourth, be careful of the assumption that gung fu, or breathing exercises, or whatever are the only ways of getting the Qi flowing. No culture or religion or person has a monopoly on cultivation techniques, energy work, meditation, or enlightenment, although they are known by different names the world over. Remember, there is almost always a middle ground. Peace Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sunya Posted July 31, 2008 What movement techniques or equivalents do you think the greater christian saints and mystics used? hehe good question! what is the key of all energy work, that even Glenn Morris said himself? what is the essence of the secret smile? positive intent. love. the essence of christian mysticism is love for God, so they are all set. energy work is not needed. love clears all blockages Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vajrasattva Posted July 31, 2008 (edited) What movement techniques or equivalents do you think the greater christian saints and mystics used? The Wali Songo used Silat & Tenaga dalam/ Tenaga Batin All which have both movement & Stillness. The Sufi also do ecstatic dance & Whirling (their equivolent of a Bagua circle walk). The christian saints have "movement" meditations that have been kept very secret that depect certain letters in the Hebrew alphabet. Also there are movements they got from the Arabs which comefrom the same roots of the Sufi. There is a lot that was "public" and a lot that was not. THat applies to the Buddha as well. Certain movements or "yogas" have been divinely inspired by the creator to man so he or she can understand further the creator/void/tao/universe/shiva/shakti/Allah. All the "Higher" up teachings I ever encountered in Tibetan Yogas end up using both stillness and some movement. Same thing in Ilmu Kebatinan training. & Sufi training. Peace Santiago hehe good question! what is the key of all energy work, that even Glenn Morris said himself? what is the essence of the secret smile? positive intent. love. the essence of christian mysticism is love for God, so they are all set. energy work is not needed. love clears all blockages Love is a choice, choice is an action therefor it is a YANG activity on some level it is Movement. Edited July 31, 2008 by Vajrasattva Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
autopoetic Posted July 31, 2008 Otherwise, did the Shakyamuni Buddha need to practice moving exercises? Did he move Qi around consciously to make progress? None of his teachings are about these things. Uh, didn't he master all of the yogic postures before finding his own method? People seem to forget that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vajrasattva Posted July 31, 2008 (edited) Otherwise, did the Shakyamuni Buddha need to practice moving exercises? Did he move Qi around consciously to make progress? None of his teachings are about these things. What he does teach is emptiness, halting the conception of thoughts. In Daoism this is repeated over and over again as well. For example, the 250-year old Daoist immortal Li Ching Yuen said that the fundamental Daoist practice is to keep emptiness. well the thing is where you in his INNER CIRCLE to know what was really passed to the initiate??? There are and always has been in buddhism an "outer, Inner an Secret Inner" understanding to all things, methods, teachings etc. Buddha had a method for each of the 3 paths renuciate tantric dzogchen to suit all needs and all types of people. Edited July 31, 2008 by Vajrasattva Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
styrofoamdog Posted August 1, 2008 (edited) Uh, didn't he master all of the yogic postures before finding his own method? People seem to forget that. It's true that he did many ascetic practices and austerities, but did he become enlightened from them? Insofar as they pointed him to the path that he eventually found, they did. But did he become enlightened through practicing them? I don't think so. well the thing is where you in his INNER CIRCLE to know what was really passed to the initiate??? There are and always has been in buddhism an "outer, Inner an Secret Inner" understanding to all things, methods, teachings etc. Buddha had a method for each of the 3 paths renuciate tantric dzogchen to suit all needs and all types of people. We know what he passed on to his disciples through the sutras. And the major Buddhist sutras, Daoist classics, Confucian writings, memoirs of Saints, etc. do not mention moving practices being key. There are certainly spiritual practices that involve movements in some traditions (such as Tibetan and esoteric forms of Buddhism), but in large, still meditation / prayer have been the methods of spiritual development used by Buddhist masters, Daoist sages, and Christian saints. Edited August 1, 2008 by styrofoamdog Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
